Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan - Just flew r/t in F on AS - some musings

As a DL regular, I haven't flown AS too much, but I recently redeemed some DL miles for a r/t in F on AS.

It was interesting, especially being so used to DL, to try another partner airlines product.

I give the edge to Delta for little things like having pillows, sealed blanket bags, plus a bottle of water pre-set at every seat prior to boarding. While my SEA-LAS flight was only 2hr30, it was late at night and a blanket or pillow would have been nice - surprised that even in F there were none available. Not sure if AS puts these on the longhaul flights, or what the threshold is for travel time to have blankets/pillows.

I give the edge to Alaska for the snack. A real linen table cloth, and an attractively plated salad with some cold chicken - it was just a light snack, but a nice touch - and better than Delta's non-meal-service snack basket offering. The return flight served Beef Wellington, and while airlines often fail miserably at beef dishes, it was actually quite tender and tasty, and washed down with some very pleasant red wine.

Delta wins hands down for pre-departure service. I love how I get on Delta, late in the afternoon, settle in, and can enjoy a cold beer, glass of wine or a Woodford and Ginger on the rocks. It really helps unwind and relax after the stress of the day and the stress of the airport. Alaska boarded both flights VERY early (I was shocked to see boarding start at T-45 for our 737 flight - both ways). Rather than just a glass of water half way through boarding, why not offer a mixed drink, catering / timing permitting?

It's nice that AS offers BoardRoom access on paid F tickets (though in my case, I buy a SkyClub membership that gets me BR access in any event).

All in all, it was a pleasant experience, the seats were comfortable and the crew were friendly, and I was pleasantly surprised by the snack/meal offerings. If AS was to incorporate the best of their product, with the best of DL (pre-departure bar service, blankets/pillows/water preset at each seat on boarding), then I think they'd have a product that would lead the pack for domestic First offerings.

Thanks for your insight. I don't think you'd get any argument from almost any of us here. A PDB and a pillow go a long way.

The water bottles themselves (that AS used to have) are a more complicated discussion, likely driven by AS' FAA inspector.

Good post! I haven't sampled F on DL in many years, but I agree with all your comments regarding AS. How do the seats on a DL 753 compare to AS in F?

I agree with your comments about AS also. If they can't offer a beverage during the boarding process, couldn't they at least take orders for drinks then? I do appreciate the cup of water, but it takes a long long time to get a real beverage.

I agree with your comments about AS also. If they can't offer a beverage during the boarding process, couldn't they at least take orders for drinks then? I do appreciate the cup of water, but it takes a long long time to get a real beverage.

I would say that over half my experience in F, the FA did take the drink order and confirm interest in the meal offering.

Good post! I haven't sampled F on DL in many years, but I agree with all your comments regarding AS. How do the seats on a DL 753 compare to AS in F?

Haven't flown the 753, but I've been on several 752s (both the PMNW and PMDL flavors). The 757 F seats are very comfortable compared to AS. It can be a bit tight when the person in front reclines, but in general I find the 757s to be comfortable, nice rides. My one complaint about the PMNW 757s are the awful lips in the overhead bins. It makes it impossible to get my DL compliant roller in to the overhead unless I sit and jam it in.

If they can't offer a beverage during the boarding process, couldn't they at least take orders for drinks then? I do appreciate the cup of water, but it takes a long long time to get a real beverage.

I think this varies by FA. I flew PDX-LAX last week and the FA took all of our orders on the ground. Another FA a few weeks ago did it the old school way by standing at the front of F and thanking us all for flying F, telling us what "egg" concoction Chef Cliff dreamed up for breakfast and then taking our orders.

I too wish AS would do a PDB, even though most times on DL I'm perfectly content with the water.

I still think the real reason AS does not do a pre-departure beverage in F is to save money (although how much does it really save?). Honestly, with most flights boarding 40 or 45 minutes prior to departure, it's really hard to argue that doing a pre-flight beverage would in any way compromise an on-time departure. Other airlines manage to do it in less time, certainly.

I have never understood the no PDB on AS. Even further I don't understand moving away from the small bottle they used to pass out. Cited some FAA rule but that makes no sense when other airlines give you one.

On the other hand on my DL flights (I get to buy FC when heading to TX thanks to generous company policy) it is hit or miss on the PDB actually taking place.

No interest in a pillow or blanket unless it is a 5+ hour flight or so. I always cram those into the bin.

I know some get into the seat argument to me but I don't notice much difference between any of the seats I sit in. Maybe I am just easy to please.

I've had the PDB water on quite a few of my AS flights, even a couple times getting coffee. I think they're actually better about PDB than they are about hanging up coats...

I still think the real reason AS does not do a pre-departure beverage in F is to save money (although how much does it really save?). Honestly, with most flights boarding 40 or 45 minutes prior to departure, it's really hard to argue that doing a pre-flight beverage would in any way compromise an on-time departure. Other airlines manage to do it in less time, certainly.

I agree with you.

I have never understood the no PDB on AS. Even further I don't understand moving away from the small bottle they used to pass out. Cited some FAA rule but that makes no sense when other airlines give you one.


I believe it had to do with the stowage of the bottles - if they were put in the seat pocket or otherwise not properly stowed, then it was a fine-able event. It seemed to be airline-specific.

Good post! I haven't sampled F on DL in many years, but I agree with all your comments regarding AS. How do the seats on a DL 753 compare to AS in F?

The old NW birds' F seats are not that great. I prefer the old DL birds' F seats as it is newer and more comfortable. The NW birds' seats are really cloth seats, but DL put blue covers over them, so I think that is probably why they don't feel as comfortable for me.

My biggest issue with AS's seat is that there are no padding in the back and the recline is almost the same as a Y seat. It is fine for 2-3 hours, but more than that it can start to get uncomfortable or make sleeping a little more challenging for me.

Not having a PDB service is pretty annoying, and I would just stay in the Boardroom longer. Countless of times when I show up at the gate 15-20 minutes before departure the door is closed. The GA has to scramble and open the door for me, and if they already printed the manifest, they have to do it again. Not my problem, I am not going to sit on the plane for 40 minutes thinking I could be in a more comfortable chair in the lounge drinking a nice cold glass of beer. On UA, I am always at the gate the minute they start boarding or a little earlier, because they do serve a proper PDB and on many birds there are DTVs where I can watch TV, drink whatever drink I want, and relax in a relatively comfortable seat.

=a blanket or pillow would have been nice - surprised that even in F there were none available. Not sure if AS puts these on the longhaul flights, or what the threshold is for travel time to have blankets/pillows.

.AS no longer has these because right now in America there is a huge swine flu epedemic going on........

or at least thats the false excuse AS gave for getting rid of them

Good post! I haven't sampled F on DL in many years, but I agree with all your comments regarding AS. How do the seats on a DL 753 compare to AS in F?for starters there isnt a potty parade of coach passengers traipsing through the cabin

I believe it had to do with the stowage of the bottles - if they were put in the seat pocket or otherwise not properly stowed, then it was a fine-able event. It seemed to be airline-specific.

Hard to believe that is the case as DL gives you a bottle of water and I often have my own bottle of water or a SOBE and put it in the seat pocket in plain view of the FA's. Therefore we have to believe it is all about cutting costs.

The old NW birds' F seats are not that great. I prefer the old DL birds' F seats as it is newer and more comfortable. The NW birds' seats are really cloth seats, but DL put blue covers over them, so I think that is probably why they don't feel as comfortable for me.

My biggest issue with AS's seat is that there are no padding in the back and the recline is almost the same as a Y seat. It is fine for 2-3 hours, but more than that it can start to get uncomfortable or make sleeping a little more challenging for me.


I have a love/hate relationship with the AS F seats. The thin-back design on the 700/800s affords appreciably more knee room and they all feature adjustable headrests. Because they're so thin, they don't encroach as much on my personal space when the person in from reclines.

Conversely, on a DL 738 the seats have a lot more padding for my lower back and my rear end, but they lack the adjustable headrests. If the person in front reclines I can forget about crossing my legs, and have to quickly yank my laptop out of harm's way. Unless I lean all the way back as well, the IFE screen is about two inches from my nose. The AS seats aren't quite as comfortable, they're far less claustrophobic.


Not having a PDB service is pretty annoying, and I would just stay in the Boardroom longer. Countless of times when I show up at the gate 15-20 minutes before departure the door is closed. The GA has to scramble and open the door for me, and if they already printed the manifest, they have to do it again. Not my problem, I am not going to sit on the plane for 40 minutes thinking I could be in a more comfortable chair in the lounge drinking a nice cold glass of beer. On UA, I am always at the gate the minute they start boarding or a little earlier, because they do serve a proper PDB and on many birds there are DTVs where I can watch TV, drink whatever drink I want, and relax in a relatively comfortable seat.

Considering that it's become mostly standard practice on AS to board at T-45, I think the FAs could definitely find the time to conduct a full-fledged PDB service. It also gives the FA a reason to come over and greet you, setting the right tone for the ensuing FC service. The current AS standard of offering a quick gulp of water shortly before door closure is just reminds of how cheap they can be.

C'mon AS, give me a proper PDB and a pillow and you'll have my vote for "Best in Class."

I believe it had to do with the stowage of the bottles - if they were put in the seat pocket or otherwise not properly stowed, then it was a fine-able event. It seemed to be airline-specific.

So AS was threatened with a fine and Delta apparently is not? The dasani bottles are given and stowed on every flight I take with them.

So AS was threatened with a fine and Delta apparently is not? The dasani bottles are given and stowed on every flight I take with them.

Each airline has its own FAA inspector that sets particular rules - and apparently if AS didn't have the bottles stowed properly, it was a fine-able event. Probably one that permitted an easy cost savings measure by eliminating them (v. ensuring enforcement by FAs).

I'm just about to fly O/W in F on AS - no musings yet :D

If AS was to incorporate the best of their product, with the best of DL (pre-departure bar service, blankets/pillows/water preset at each seat on boarding), then I think they'd have a product that would lead the pack for domestic First offerings.

Have you ever tried VX or UA's P.S. in F? I experienced VX in F in December and felt that it significantly outshone any domestic F product I have been in on a narrowbody aircraft. The mood lighting isn't for everyone, but this is not the over-simplified F that I have been recalibrated to expect :)

I have never tried P.S. but I have read that it is very good. I would be curious to know how that would compare to a "best of AS plus best of DL" product.

I'm just about to fly O/W in F on AS - no musings yet :D

I was not amused. The FA (I'll call her "Nancy Grace") was not the best ever.

Have you ever tried VX or UA's P.S. in F? I experienced VX in F in December and felt that it significantly outshone any domestic F product I have been in on a narrowbody aircraft. The mood lighting isn't for everyone, but this is not the over-simplified F that I have been recalibrated to expect :)

I have never tried P.S. but I have read that it is very good. I would be curious to know how that would compare to a "best of AS plus best of DL" product.

The product will always be better when they won't give it away for free.

The product will always be better when they won't give it away for free.

My recent $900+ OAK/SEA/BZN was not free. Half of it was on QX. I expect better. And the F was only about $50 more than the last minute Y when I had to book, so I expect better on that, too.

I have a love/hate relationship with the AS F seats. The thin-back design on the 700/800s affords appreciably more knee room and they all feature adjustable headrests. Because they're so thin, they don't encroach as much on my personal space when the person in from reclines.

Conversely, on a DL 738 the seats have a lot more padding for my lower back and my rear end, but they lack the adjustable headrests. If the person in front reclines I can forget about crossing my legs, and have to quickly yank my laptop out of harm's way. Unless I lean all the way back as well, the IFE screen is about two inches from my nose. The AS seats aren't quite as comfortable, they're far less claustrophobic.

I will agree, DL is pretty bad with legroom when the seat in front is reclined fully. CO does better than everyone balancing the recline [7.5"] and legroom. Even with the limited recline, AS's F seats have the worst pitch in the industry [36-37" in most seats], so it is not exactly roomy for me. Hard to cross my legs when the seat in front is reclined.

DL is the only US airline that does not offer a proper headrest in F [AA does not have them on the 757s with the pukey seats, but they are replacing those seats]. I noticed that too and it is pretty surprising that they did not think of it when they installed those seats. $$$ maybe?

CO does better than everyone balancing the recline [7.5"] and legroom.

Doesn't CO have the same seats as Alaska?

Doesn't CO have the same seats as Alaska?

Not really. Those seats on a handful of 737s [about 20 of them] have the AS seats as temporary seats due to the Koito scandal. Even with the AS seats, it has the same 7.5" recline as the normal CO seats, yet has more legroom [thanks to higher pitch of 38" vs. 36-37" on AS] compared to AS F. Speaking of which, UA flyers always complain about those seats about how flimsy and uncomfortable they feel in those seats.

CO's F seats are more boxy and thicker along with a lumbar support lever. I will admit that AS's F seats are slightly more comfortable than CO's upright, but CO is much better when reclined and UA's F seats are even better.

I like softer seats, I know some prefer firmer seats. My issue is that firm seats will become a pain to sit in for 4-5+ hours.

Hard to believe that is the case as DL gives you a bottle of water and I often have my own bottle of water or a SOBE and put it in the seat pocket in plain view of the FA's. Therefore we have to believe it is all about cutting costs.

I think there's truth to it- DL FA recently told me the dasani-in-seatback was not proper stowage for takeoff. Cost savings probably factored heavily in the discontinuation of full PBD service.

I was quite impressed with a couple of recent flights on DL CR9s. Not only did they board the full RJs in about 15 minutes, but managed full PDB despite the tight zig-zaggy aisle. they deftly timed drink runs with gaps between boarding pax. Attentive FAs, pillow, blanket, comfy seat with good recline, and bigger windows on routes AS wouldn't put mainline on. I realize it's about half the size of most AS flights, but I dislike boarding AS needlessly early and just sitting there, often without PDwater, watching FAs idle as we wait for the last connecting pax. Occasionally early boarding means early departure, but most of the time IME it just means more time in the aluminum tube.

was also surprised that the RJs were fully catered... woodford reserve, a margarita, a blue moon with orange slice, and a dinner on a 2.5h flight. can't wait to see how much the new 739s up AS' game.

Hard to believe that is the case as DL gives you a bottle of water and I often have my own bottle of water or a SOBE and put it in the seat pocket in plain view of the FA's. Therefore we have to believe it is all about cutting costs.

The rule is all service items must be put away before takeoff. So your water/Sobe/Coke you bring on yourself is fine. But if you got it from the airline it's not ok. :rolleyes: That being said, I've seen those DL water bottles left on the arm rests during takeoff, landing, taxi etc.

I don't doubt it's a cost reduction measure for AS to nix the water bottles (which, as some might remember were originally 12 oz bottles when they first showed up). It says something about AS that Skywest/Mesaba can do a full PDB on a CR9--which isn't boarded 45 minutes from departure--and AS can't do a PDB on a 737 because "it slows down boarding." Heck, even DL can do it on their 737-800s and they board 30 minutes from departure.

CO's F seats are more boxy and thicker along with a lumbar support lever. I will admit that AS's F seats are slightly more comfortable than CO's upright, but CO is much better when reclined and UA's F seats are even better.

Interesting. I prefer the softer seats like you. Although I find the AS seats are pretty uncomfortable in the full upright position. Once reclined they aren't bad.

On my most recent experience in AS F, the FA in F did not even have time for the usual water. However, she did have plenty of time to stand in the aisle blocking boarding, then stand on one of the seats to try to reposition an oddly shaped bag in the overhead, while shouting to another FA in the front galley who was responding over the intercom from 10 ft away. So, I can see how boarding 40 min before departure can leave little time for a PDB when there's so much to do on board.

I was not amused. The FA (I'll call her "Nancy Grace") was not the best ever.

I would not like to see Nancy Grace as a flight attendant (nor really in any other context).