Practical Travel Safety Issues - CBP Wants to Know if I've Been to GDR or USSR in the Last Five Years

Just doing a Global Entry application. There is a drop-down menu where you are supposed to select countries that you have visited in the last 5 years. Among those on the list are the USSR and the German Democratic Republic.

I always wonder not so much how these things happen, but how they remain in place. How many CBP employees have seen the list over the years and not done anything about it?

I wonder if anyone has ever put them by accident?

What I find so baffling about this is that Germany reunified in 1990 and the USSR ceased to exist as of 1991 meaning this question hasn't been relevant since 1996. I can't speak for everyone, but GE didn't exist in 1996 (at least not in its current form, to my knowledge) and most of these applications were not yet filled out online. Therefore, someone had to actively put it in there after it was no longer relevant.

The correct designations are there too - Russian Federation, the individual former Soviet republics that are now countries, etc.


I wonder if anyone has ever put them by accident?

What I find so baffling about this is that Germany reunified in 1990 and the USSR ceased to exist as of 1991 meaning this question hasn't been relevant since 1996. I can't speak for everyone, but GE didn't exist in 1996 (at least not in its current form, to my knowledge) and most of these applications were not yet filled out online. Therefore, someone had to actively put it in there after it was no longer relevant.

I remember glancing at a printout of my profile during the interview. One of the things that was explicitly stated: "Has traveled to Russia."

I remember glancing at a printout of my profile during the interview. One of the things that was explicitly stated: "Has traveled to Russia."

Mine must have said that too, since I've been to Russia. Didn't stop me from getting GE, though.

Just doing a Global Entry application. There is a drop-down menu where you are supposed to select countries that you have visited in the last 5 years. Among those on the list are the USSR and the German Democratic Republic.

I always wonder not so much how these things happen, but how they remain in place. How many CBP employees have seen the list over the years and not done anything about it?

Hey, I was. First I hopped into my Delorean/time machine and went back to the 1980s. I then made my way through check point charlie, across the DDR country side, down to my rendezvous point with a sexy Russian spy in Dresden. Oh, then I woke up and remembered it is 2012. :D

Someone used an old file that listed countries.

Someone used an old file that listed countries.
Actually, it's possible the lookup values for that field are shared with another field somewhere on the system, and rather than delete the now-defunct countries & botch up existing records, the countries are left in the list. The side effect is what you see here.

Why not create a separate lookup for this field? Well, we are talking about government employees here - and that'd be extra work.

A trivia(?) question:
Where would one place West Berlin (when Germany was divided)? It physically was in East Germany, but West Berlin was considered part of West Germany.

I'd just assume they use the same list to populate country of birth and recently visited countries (probably too much effort to separate). And they are both viable countries of both, no?

Were Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia on the list, too?

Nope. GDR and USSR were the only apparent anomalies.


Were Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia on the list, too?

Hey, I was. First I hopped into my Delorean/time machine and went back to the 1980s. I then made my way through check point charlie, across the DDR country side, down to my rendezvous point with a sexy Russian spy in Dresden. Oh, then I woke up and remembered it is 2012. :D
Great Scott!

I often arrive from MUC, and GE has me as arriving from:"Munich Riem Airport".
Riem closed in 1992, and immediately ceased to be an active airport... :D

Looks like they are using some sort of data list compiled in the 1980's at the latest...

Nope. GDR and USSR were the only apparent anomalies.

So they had GDR on there but not FRG?

Actually, it's possible the lookup values for that field are shared with another field somewhere on the system, and rather than delete the now-defunct countries & botch up existing records, the countries are left in the list. The side effect is what you see here.

Why not create a separate lookup for this field? Well, we are talking about government employees here - and that'd be extra work.

Good point. I agree, they've got a list of countries with no way to mark them as obsolete.

Also, given this thread mentions the German Democratic Republic (aka East Germany), thought this comic was appropriate:

http://thedoghousediaries.com/comics/uncategorized/2010-06-21-997ddd3.png

Alt-text: Please don't hurt me, DPRK

Also, given this thread mentions the German Democratic Republic (aka East Germany), thought this comic was appropriate:

http://thedoghousediaries.com/comics/uncategorized/2010-06-21-997ddd3.png

Alt-text: Please don't hurt me, DPRK

They got it wrong. There's no overlap.

The only honest governmental form that appears in country names is "Republic" and it must not be modified.

Even when GDR existed, I always thought of it as DDR, the name West Germans (FRG) used. IME GDR and FRG jus caused postal confusion; better to write East Germany and West Germany. Later the "five new provinces" sounded cute.

Why not create a separate lookup for this field? Well, we are talking about government employees here - and that'd be extra work.

Actually, it could be saving work. If it pulls automatically from a list that gets updated regularly (although apparently not completely) then it saves GE work of having to replicate revisions of the list.

The only honest governmental form that appears in country names is "Republic" and it must not be modified.

Republic of the Sudan, Republic of Uganda, Republic of Rwanda, Republic of Burundi, Somali Republic, Central African Republic... or right next door to me, Dominican Republic.

Real honest form of government. Total transparency.

Republic of the Sudan, Republic of Uganda, Republic of Rwanda, Republic of Burundi, Somali Republic, Central African Republic... or right next door to me, Dominican Republic.

Real honest form of government. Total transparency.

I didn't say it was ALWAYS legitimate, just that it could be.

How about the Republic of China?

Any other form is always not legitimate.

Any other form is always not legitimate.

Not always.

A trivia(?) question:
Where would one place West Berlin (when Germany was divided)? It physically was in East Germany, but West Berlin was considered part of West Germany.

I think the situation was even more complicated than that: West Berlin was part of West Germany de facto, but it remained under de jure Allied occupation (under a locally elected municipal administration) until German reunification. Any change in Occupied Berlin's legal status required the agreement of all four occupying powers--the USA, USSR, UK, and France--and that didn't happen until the 2+4 treaty in 1990.

I think the West Berlin government used to have to hold a special vote every time the West German parliament enacted a new law, to adopt the same statutory text in West Berlin. (Think of it as the legislative equivalent of copy-paste.)

Not always.

Got any examples?

Got any examples?

History has them, and that may include governing arrangements which may be prerequisite to even arrive at forming a democratic republic.

And even democratic republics are not always considered legitimate. Illiberal democratic republics can be awful regimes.

History has them, and that may include governing arrangements which may be prerequisite to even arrive at forming a democratic republic.

And even democratic republics are not always considered legitimate. Illiberal democratic republics can be awful regimes.

I wonder if we are talking about the same thing here.

I'm saying that government forms *IN THE COUNTRY NAME* may be true if it says "Republic", anything else is false.

This is not to say there can't be other government forms, I'm talking about when they appear in the country name.

I wonder if we are talking about the same thing here.

I'm saying that government forms *IN THE COUNTRY NAME* may be true if it says "Republic", anything else is false.

This is not to say there can't be other government forms, I'm talking about when they appear in the country name.

Is "kingdom" (or other monarchical equivalent) in the country name always false?

The answer to that may help clarify if we are talking about the same thing or not.

I often arrive from MUC, and GE has me as arriving from:"Munich Riem Airport".
Riem closed in 1992, and immediately ceased to be an active airport... :D

Looks like they are using some sort of data list compiled in the 1980's at the latest...

That is pretty hilarious.

Even when GDR existed, I always thought of it as DDR, the name West Germans (FRG) used. IME GDR and FRG jus caused postal confusion; better to write East Germany and West Germany. Later the "five new provinces" sounded cute.

DDR and BRD is how I think of them, but that's because I speak German.

I'm saying that government forms *IN THE COUNTRY NAME* may be true if it says "Republic", anything else is false.

The Commnwealth of Australia seems to describe rather aptly the state, as is the United Kingdom or the totally descriptive "State of Eritrea" or "State of Israel".


This is not to say there can't be other government forms, I'm talking about when they appear in the country name.

Ελληνική Δημοκρατία is usually considered democratic despite having it in its name :) Just browsing at a list of country names, I can see three or four other acceptable regimes that are exception to your rule. Which is a lot given the very few countries with a name including something other than <Republic of XYZ> (which is equally misleading if you go with a modern acception of republic).

So they had GDR on there but not FRG?

I have a feeling they were only concerned with communist countries. Back in the day the the boogeymen of the time were the communists(ie. "There's a communist hiding behind every corner, ready to strike at a moments notice"). If the TSA had existed back in the 1960s the 20 questions game would have involved slipping in "comrade" or a reference to Lenin to see if you slip up and Having spies in the airport bars to keep an eye on people drinking too much vodka.

Republic of the Sudan, Republic of Uganda, Republic of Rwanda, Republic of Burundi, Somali Republic, Central African Republic... or right next door to me, Dominican Republic.

Real honest form of government. Total transparency.
Isn't the US technically a republic? Just can't figure out how to get it into the name. United States of the Republic of North America. Nah, not as catchy.

I have a feeling they were only concerned with communist countries. Back in the day the the boogeymen of the time were the communists(ie. "There's a communist hiding behind every corner, ready to strike at a moments notice"). If the TSA had existed back in the 1960s the 20 questions game would have involved slipping in "comrade" or a reference to Lenin to see if you slip up and Having spies in the airport bars to keep an eye on people drinking too much vodka.
Crud. Guess I'm switching to rum. Or is gin more McCarthy-proof?