Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate - TSA Wants Up to 75% of Flyers Shifted to Faster Screening

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-21/tsa-seeking-to-shift-up-to-75-of-flyers-to-precheck-system.html?cmpid=yhoo

So TSA is working with 'many, if not most' of the US top 500 corporations to determine if their employees are eligible for Pre-Check? Do the employees have any say in whether or not they want to participate or have their information passed along to TSA? If they are non-flyers (and most Americans are) why should their information be entered into a government database somewhere?

Sounds like a backdoor approach to a national identity card to me. I wonder if the Precheck 'benefits' will be extended to those negotiating TSA operations at sports venues, train stations, bus stations, VIPR operations, etc.

The TSA is well aware that the vast majority of the 6 billion people it has screened since 2001 aren’t a terrorist threat, Pistole said.

Even at "vast majority", it's a bit of an understatement I'd say... Even if we give them credit for the 2 non-TSA screened attempts (shoe and underwear), that's still 2 out of 6,000,000,000... or about 0.0000000333%

Even if we bump it up and say that they've actually screened terrorists who flew, but did not attempt anything -- guesstimate - what, say 100? Since we knew that some on the known watch lists have flown and 1 got on the plane after leaving his vehicle in NY.

Even at 100 - that's still only 0.00000167%...

...even if overestimated and said it was 1,000,000 - that's just now getting up to 1.67%.

6,000,000,000 people questionably searched - an amount where the odds are they could have won the powerball 34 times - and yet, they still haven't found 1 terrorist... I don't know whether I should encourage them to play the lottery (better odds) or not (as their luck seems worse than I usually have).

<edit add: At $60 billion spent, they could have won the powerball 340 times. At least then it would appear that we received some return on our investment.>

The TSA is well aware that the vast majority of the 6 billion people it has screened since 2001 aren’t a terrorist threat, Pistole said.Actually it's all of them I believe.

How's about passing the word along to the <redacted> at the checkpoints, John?

I have a real issue with members of Congress and judges being given automatic access to precheck. This is because if they all go through the pre-check lanes, they will not be able to relate to the pain that others experience at checkpoints. I see this as a way to prevent Congress from being frustrated at the TSA.

When Pre-Check was first announced, I decided I wouldn't accept the invitation. I'd stand together with the vast majority of folks who don't have a way into the program or who object to a background check and entry fee as a condition of travel...

But so few "kettles" seem to care what happens to them - and go to such lengths to defend the system and make derogatory comments against anyone who stands up to it...... well, if they don't care about their rights, why should I?

The only thing that really stops me is that it's not clearly stated anywhere exactly what "information" you agree to provide to TSA when you opt-in. As someone who qualifies via elite status, it's not like I've gone through GlobalEntry or any program like that.

So what more info than a PNR would I be giving them?

When Pre-Check was first announced, I decided I wouldn't accept the invitation. I'd stand together with the vast majority of folks who don't have a way into the program or who object to a background check and entry fee as a condition of travel...

But so few "kettles" seem to care what happens to them - and go to such lengths to defend the system and make derogatory comments against anyone who stands up to it...... well, if they don't care about their rights, why should I?

The only thing that really stops me is that it's not clearly stated anywhere exactly what "information" you agree to provide to TSA when you opt-in. As someone who qualifies via elite status, it's not like I've gone through GlobalEntry or any program like that.

So what more info than a PNR would I be giving them?

Read the latest articles. If you work for the right employer ('most' of the nation's Top 500), you may not have to do anything - your employer may do it for you.

This likely means the end of WTMD-only PreCheck lanes. Even the TSA isn't dumb enough to walk into the political firestorm that would ensue if they bought all those AIT scanners, then shuffled 75% of the flying public back through WTMDs.

I got my Global Entry card just last month and learned that it isn´t always a path to faster screening. At 4 am on Saturday, June 2, I walked up to the TDC at EWR Terminal B (Delta) and handed him my boarding pass and GE card. He immediately asked if I had a driver´s license or passport. I said, "What´s wrong with the ID I just gave you. It´s on your list of approved IDs." He repeated his question. I repeated mine. He asked if I planned to answer his question. I said no. He called for a supervisor.

A 2-striper appeared quickly and asked why I refused to produce another ID. I said that I already produced an acceptable ID, and there is no requirement that I produce two IDs. He said that I have to do whatever they tell me to do. At that, I reminded him that I still have rights. He said that he has rights, too -- whatever that means in this context! -- so I told him that he is a fool. He called for another supervisor.

A sane 3-striper appeared, who spoke with the first TSA guy and explained to me that the guy had never seen a GE card before. I said that he should have just asked me about it, rather than implicitly rejecting it and demanding another ID. The 3-striper would not concede the point but allowed me to pass. At least 10 minutes were wasted on this nonsense.

All that was followed by my opt-out and groping, supervised by the same 3-striper. Grrrr. And at 4 am.

Bruce

At that, I reminded him that I still have rights. He said that he has rights, too -- whatever that means in this context! -- so I told him that he is a fool. He called for another supervisor.


^^^ Priceless. I wish I was there to see it. Pity, no one else is willing to stand up to the nonsense.

He said that I have to do whatever they tell me to do. At that, I reminded him that I still have rights. He said that he has rights, too -- whatever that means in this context! -- so I told him that he is a fool.

Bruce

I try to not be surprised by this kind of mentality as when you hire off of pizza boxes, it should be expected intellect stops at ' I know you are, but what am I', and it's almost your fault for getting mad.

This likely means the end of WTMD-only PreCheck lanes. Even the TSA isn't dumb enough to walk into the political firestorm that would ensue if they bought all those AIT scanners, then shuffled 75% of the flying public back through WTMDs.I don't know about that... The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform and House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure just tabled a report which labeled the body scanners as "ineffective".

I work for a local government and carry a government ID. I've undergone the same background and criminal history check as the TSA screeners. (And more, but the basic requirement was same as TSA screener requirement.)

That's the limit of the information I'm willing to furnish (or have furnished) to TSA in order to travel within my own country.

~~ Irish

This likely means the end of WTMD-only PreCheck lanes. Even the TSA isn't dumb enough to walk into the political firestorm that would ensue if they bought all those AIT scanners, then shuffled 75% of the flying public back through WTMDs.

This. And the fact that if they get 75% of the population in the program then the only way they'll have the capacity is to run them through the strip-search machines.

Maybe TSA will make use of JPAS and help ease the travel burden on those of us that have already had extensive government background checks....doubtful, but you never know.....

What bothers me is the language. Perhaps someone is choosing his/her words carelessly (or very carefully).

Something like 38% of Americans never fly - so how are we going to get 75% into the Pre-check program? And why should non-flyers (John Madden, for example) or highly infrequent flyers jump through hoops (and possibly pay) to get into the program anyway?

Mention has been made of allowing kids under 12 and seniors over 75 into Pre-check 'automatically'. So...at 13 a kid is automatically untrustworthy? Guilty until ...what? He/she applies for some sort of 'trusted traveller' program (and ponies up annual fees to do so)?

I think right now folks who are enjoying Pre-check (and getting to use WTMD) are assuming/hoping that going forward Pre-check will mean WTMD. If DHS really goes for the 75% figure, it's obvious that the WTMDs won't be able to handle the load. So then what? Back to shoes off/jackets off/all pockets emptied for the NoS even if you're Pre-check?

According to TSA, there's loads of unused equipment stockpiled in warehouses because they never know when it will be needed and it has to be readily available. (That's one of the official lines). I doubt that there are dozens, if not hundreds of WTMDs ready to deploy to handle any additional load required if Pre-check numbers increase rapidly.

I think this is all a back-door approach to something like a national identity card for all citizens. If so, I wonder how long it will take TSA to train (and re-train...and re-re-train) TDCs to recognize it?

What bothers me is the language. Perhaps someone is choosing his/her words carelessly (or very carefully).

Something like 38% of Americans never fly - so how are we going to get 75% into the Pre-check program? And why should non-flyers (John Madden, for example) or highly infrequent flyers jump through hoops (and possibly pay) to get into the program anyway?

Mention has been made of allowing kids under 12 and seniors over 75 into Pre-check 'automatically'. So...at 13 a kid is automatically untrustworthy? Guilty until ...what? He/she applies for some sort of 'trusted traveller' program (and ponies up annual fees to do so)?

I think right now folks who are enjoying Pre-check (and getting to use WTMD) are assuming/hoping that going forward Pre-check will mean WTMD. If DHS really goes for the 75% figure, it's obvious that the WTMDs won't be able to handle the load. So then what? Back to shoes off/jackets off/all pockets emptied for the NoS even if you're Pre-check?

According to TSA, there's loads of unused equipment stockpiled in warehouses because they never know when it will be needed and it has to be readily available. (That's one of the official lines). I doubt that there are dozens, if not hundreds of WTMDs ready to deploy to handle any additional load required if Pre-check numbers increase rapidly.

I think this is all a back-door approach to something like a national identity card for all citizens. If so, I wonder how long it will take TSA to train (and re-train...and re-re-train) TDCs to recognize it?

Well, it also brings up interesting issues when traveling with families. My Dad is 75, my mother is 70. So she still gets the grope and rub because she is a few years younger? Face it, this is what the TSA and DHS wanted all along. Full access to ever traveler's deep background information to implement internal travel controls. The intrusive policies of the past three years were designed to get the people to not only accept it, but to ultimately beg for it.

Maybe TSA will make use of JPAS and help ease the travel burden on those of us that have already had extensive government background checks....doubtful, but you never know.....

If you can find enough TSA folks that are trusted enough to use (but not abuse) JPAS.

If you can find enough TSA folks that are trusted enough to use (but not abuse) JPAS.

You owe me a new keyboard.

This likely means the end of WTMD-only PreCheck lanes. Even the TSA isn't dumb enough to walk into the political firestorm that would ensue if they bought all those AIT scanners, then shuffled 75% of the flying public back through WTMDs.

This was my first reaction too. However, my feeling is that there will be three "tiers" of travelers; the trusted traveler group, who are currently using PreCheck, a middle "not untrusted" group (where perhaps the screening will be similar to what it was circa '04) and then the "regular" group, who get the full treatment.

My guess is that with the middle group WTMD would remain primary with NOS as backup for failed WTMD and then as a "random" factor, mostly to avoid the firestorm you mention and be able to say "look, we're still using them." Since all pockets have to be empty and jackets off anyhow, I don't see any real benefit (to TSA, even) of having a TT group that still has to go through them regularly, it doesn't alleviate the logjam.

The total cynic in me also wonders whether or not there are plans to remove the BKSX at some point due to safety concerns, but that somehow those won't be brought to light until they're ready to up the numbers of TT flyers. However every airport I've heard of installing these of late have all been getting MMW type machines. I realize that these are easier to have the privacy shielding on, but I also wonder whether the PR nightmare associated with the BKSX has prompted this.

This was my first reaction too. However, my feeling is that there will be three "tiers" of travelers; the trusted traveler group, who are currently using PreCheck, a middle "not untrusted" group (where perhaps the screening will be similar to what it was circa '04) and then the "regular" group, who get the full treatment.

My guess is that with the middle group WTMD would remain primary with NOS as backup for failed WTMD and then as a "random" factor, mostly to avoid the firestorm you mention and be able to say "look, we're still using them." Since all pockets have to be empty and jackets off anyhow, I don't see any real benefit (to TSA, even) of having a TT group that still has to go through them regularly, it doesn't alleviate the logjam.

The total cynic in me also wonders whether or not there are plans to remove the BKSX at some point due to safety concerns, but that somehow those won't be brought to light until they're ready to up the numbers of TT flyers. However every airport I've heard of installing these of late have all been getting MMW type machines. I realize that these are easier to have the privacy shielding on, but I also wonder whether the PR nightmare associated with the BKSX has prompted this.

Chertoff and friends will probably push the US government into strong-arming third world countries into bring their security up to US 'standards' - starting with an immediate deployment of used BKSX at a 'bargain' price. Didn't 'fly' with the EU, but it will work just fine with less picky, more openly corrupt third world countries.

Besides, they could throw them directly on the junk heap and not worry about a PR nightmare. After all, what PR nightmare or backlash did they face after discarding the puffers? What PR nightmare or repercussions are they facing now, after being caught lying about how much spare gear they had lying around in a warehouse? They're above the law and Congress hasn't got the will or the interest to do anything about it.

I got my Global Entry card just last month and learned that it isn´t always a path to faster screening. At 4 am on Saturday, June 2, I walked up to the TDC at EWR Terminal B (Delta) and handed him my boarding pass and GE card. He immediately asked if I had a driver´s license or passport. I said, "What´s wrong with the ID I just gave you. It´s on your list of approved IDs." He repeated his question. I repeated mine. He asked if I planned to answer his question. I said no. He called for a supervisor.

My response is always "It's the only ID I have available for you." It's a true statement, sidesteps the question, and doesn't give them the chance for the power trip.

Of course, EWR TSA people are <insert insult here>, so whatever.

What bothers me is the automatic nature of it. I'm OK with providing sensitive information to the government consensually and of my own volition. I don't like the way this sounds with people "automatically" getting enrolled.

What bothers me is the automatic nature of it. I'm OK with providing sensitive information to the government consensually and of my own volition. I don't like the way this sounds with people "automatically" getting enrolled.

What info could the airlines (not sure about corporations) possibly possibly give besides name/DOB/address and travel patterns, which you pretty much give up anyways and aren't really that sensitive?

However every airport I've heard of installing these of late have all been getting MMW type machines. I realize that these are easier to have the privacy shielding on, but I also wonder whether the PR nightmare associated with the BKSX has prompted this.
The only contract out right now is for delivery of MMWs. TSA says that new BKSX are still an option, as the technology is "safe" and they need to have competing technologies to guarantee performance improvements and low costs.

In truth, I'll be shocked if the US ever orders another BKSX unit, despite Chertoff's connections. That said, aside from the early-adopter airports that predated MMW, BKSX is where it is because MMWs wouldn't have fit. Unless the airports are planning to remodel their security area (in some cases, again) to fit MMWs or the TSA is ok with "downgrading" those sites to WTMD-only (they won't be), those BKSX are likely around indefinitely.

You owe me a new keyboard.

No, you owe me 50 pushups. :p

What info could the airlines (not sure about corporations) possibly possibly give besides name/DOB/address and travel patterns, which you pretty much give up anyways and aren't really that sensitive?

I'm talking about employers.

I'm talking about employers.

The government has the practice of sending "voluntary" surveys quite often that are used to do who knows what. A form from DHS or HHS or whatever, looking at travel patterns of employees in the aggregate is entirely possible.

It could be followed by:

"In a recent survey you indicated that you have XX employees with travel patterns that may make them eligible for our program of expedited security screening. This will save them time and make their travel more productive. It has the potential of helping you to make better use of your employee's time.

Please submit the following information on each of the employees that you would like to have eligible for this program, and we will begin the processing of their applications immediately.

Thank you,

Department of Homeland Security"

Sure, business will not comply with that.

I think this some carelessness in phrasing and reporting. I suspect that they want to get 75% of *trips* not travelers covered by PreCheck. You can cover 75% of trips with a lot less than 75% of the travelers.

I think this some carelessness in phrasing and reporting. I suspect that they want to get 75% of *trips* not travelers covered by PreCheck. You can cover 75% of trips with a lot less than 75% of the travelers.

It is actually the same thing. The TSA considers me a new threat every time I fly. I do not get any credit for the hundreds of times I have cleared security with no problem. Once I get past the checkpoint and onto the plane, I no longer exist. The next time I fly, I am a new person. The people that do not travel are also not people to the TSA. You only end up on their radar when you present yourself at the CP. So, 75% of of trips is 75% of travelers.

It is actually the same thing. The TSA considers me a new threat every time I fly. I do not get any credit for the hundreds of times I have cleared security with no problem. Once I get past the checkpoint and onto the plane, I no longer exist. The next time I fly, I am a new person. The people that do not travel are also not people to the TSA. You only end up on their radar when you present yourself at the CP. So, 75% of of trips is 75% of travelers.

I think the point was this:

Let's say there are 10m unique individuals who get on a plane between 1 and 1,000 times per year. Of all the flights taken combined, 2.5m of those people could easily be responsible for 75% of them, since so many people only fly once or twice per year. Hence, 75% of the unique individuals won't be eligible for expedited screening, but 75% of the travelers on any given day could be (since they're part of the 25% of heavy travelers group).

As Delta Plat and AA EXP and members of Global Entry my wife and I expected to be eligible for precheck. We provided our GE numbers to the airlines but have never been selected for expedited screening at DTW (DL) or DFW(AA) or MIA(AA).In all cases we were in first class.

What experience do others have? Is this program basically just for high value flyers? Or is Pistole basically just trying to quiet the complainers while preserving this enormous boondoggle of a program?

I think the point was this:

Let's say there are 10m unique individuals who get on a plane between 1 and 1,000 times per year. Of all the flights taken combined, 2.5m of those people could easily be responsible for 75% of them, since so many people only fly once or twice per year. Hence, 75% of the unique individuals won't be eligible for expedited screening, but 75% of the travelers on any given day could be (since they're part of the 25% of heavy travelers group).

'Zactly. Thank you for explaining it more eloquently than I did. At some airports and for some airlines, as few as 10% of the unique flyers can generate more than 80% of the trips taken in a year.

Or is Pistole basically just trying to quiet the complainers while preserving this enormous boondoggle of a program?

This.

As Delta Plat and AA EXP and members of Global Entry my wife and I expected to be eligible for precheck. We provided our GE numbers to the airlines but have never been selected for expedited screening at DTW (DL) or DFW(AA) or MIA(AA).In all cases we were in first class.

What experience do others have? Is this program basically just for high value flyers? Or is Pistole basically just trying to quiet the complainers while preserving this enormous boondoggle of a program?

Class of service is irrelevant. Were your flights part of an international itinerary? Generally, if you are on a domestic flight connecting to an international flight or on an international flight (makes no difference), you are not eligible for PC (although there have been a few reports of TT working on the return domestic leg of an international itinerary).

You also have to go through the PC lines (TDC uses a 'special' scanner) to determine your eligibility.

Unlikely to be the problem, but double-check to make sure your GE numbers are entered correctly.

Lastly, if you get turned down again, ask the TDC why. It's possible you'll get a friendly and knowledgeable one who may be able to shed some light on the subject (or not). IIRC, at SEA, if you check in at the AS counter and the agent prints your boarding pass, PC rejects it - you have to print your boarding pass at home or at the kiosks for it to work.

Good luck.

GE is not a requirement for selection. I should know.

GE is not a requirement for selection. I should know.

You're right, of course.

I only mentioned GE because although the poster and his wife are both frequent flyers, he mentioned using their GE numbers in their airline profile. That should also be adequate, whether or not they are frequent flyers, but either something is wrong or they are having a run of bad luck.

If you can find enough TSA folks that are trusted enough to use (but not abuse) JPAS.

Ideally, the regular TSO would not get unlimited access to JPAS. The better way would be to integrate the validation process into SecureFlight. Let the computers take care of it all. All the TSOs have to know is which lane to send someone into based on how many beeps they hear.

This. And the fact that if they get 75% of the population in the program then the only way they'll have the capacity is to run them through the strip-search machines.

Where do you figure that they won't have the capacity? My guess is they get more people submitting to background checks and they eventually dump the scanners, or the scanners break on them first as they have no viable maintenance and upkeep plan.

Where do you figure that they won't have the capacity? My guess is they get more people submitting to background checks and they eventually dump the scanners, or the scanners break on them first as they have no viable maintenance and upkeep plan.

Why would anyone want a viable maintenance and upkeep plan when they can just buy the BKSX 2.0 model from Chertoff instead?

Can resident card holder do this pre check?

Or this is only for US passport holders?

Permanent residents can get it, too.

Bruce

Permanent residents can get it, too.

Bruce

How? I have no clue.

What info do they want?

By the way thank you.

They do some sort of background check, take fingerprints. Not sure what happens behind the scenes.

Bruce

As Delta Plat and AA EXP and members of Global Entry my wife and I expected to be eligible for precheck. We provided our GE numbers to the airlines but have never been selected for expedited screening at DTW (DL) or DFW(AA) or MIA(AA).In all cases we were in first class.

What experience do others have? Is this program basically just for high value flyers? Or is Pistole basically just trying to quiet the complainers while preserving this enormous boondoggle of a program?

At DFW Terminal C last week. There was nothing on my BP, but I asked for directions to the expedited line, showed my GOES card and breezed through. The system works great, but if TSA wants to streamline they need to start changing the lines over. Right now you have to go out of your way to find them.

The line I used was near gate C30. Map here. (http://www.dfwairport.com/dfwucm1prd/groups/public/documents/webasset/p1_007518.pdf)

The TSA site (http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/escreening.shtm) lists Pre-Check locations.

Actually, the PreCheck text on the TSA page states quite clearly it is for US citizens only. But anecdotal evidence indicates this is not being checked at the checkpoint.

I have a sneaky feeling that no matter how much this expands, foreigners who do not have US driver´s licenses (to "look" like they are US citizens) will not earn the right to keep their shoes on through PreCheck. I also dread the fact that, in becoming one of the "more dangerous" minority in the future, I will be subjected to even worse screening procedures. (In fact, I haven´t seen anything get better since this madness started, so my fears are well justified.)

Chertoff and friends will probably push the US government into strong-arming third world countries into bring their security up to US 'standards' - starting with an immediate deployment of used BKSX at a 'bargain' price. Didn't 'fly' with the EU, but it will work just fine with less picky, more openly corrupt third world countries.

In 2010 the local news showed that whole body scanners had been given as a "gift" to a few airports in South America by the US. This includes EZE and GRU, where I go through regularly. The "gift" seems to have been simply ignored by the locals and must be gathering dust in some deposit area - never seen them.

At DFW Terminal C last week. There was nothing on my BP, but I asked for directions to the expedited line, showed my GOES card and breezed through. The system works great, but if TSA wants to streamline they need to start changing the lines over. Right now you have to go out of your way to find them.

The line I used was near gate C30. Map here. (http://www.dfwairport.com/dfwucm1prd/groups/public/documents/webasset/p1_007518.pdf)

The TSA site (http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/escreening.shtm) lists Pre-Check locations.
I think once the volume of people increases, this wil be fixed. For now, even if an airport only has one lane, it's generally not that busy.