China - All China visas require round trip evidence?

Daughter has job lined up in Shanghai; contract is 1 year. Must she show round-trip tickets (as required when she was a student there)? If so, how can one buy tickets more than a year in advance?!
Thanks for any info.

There should be no need for proof of a round-trip ticket when applying for a Z visa.

If there were such a requirement, why wouldn't one buy a fully refundable ticket and then get the money back after the visa is granted?

I can definitely rebut the question in the title--I've been to China many times on tourist visas, I've never given them any evidence of our tickets.

The actual OP is asking about a specific visa, though and I can't address that.

My daughter had to produce evidence of a return ticket when she went over as a student; had to change dates later, etc., and that cost $$ . (In addition, she had to leave the country and reenter once as a condition of her visa, which also ended up being very expensive.)


Q: "why wouldn't one buy a fully refundable ticket and then get the money back after the visa is granted?"
A: Costs too much.

p.s. We were told we had to have R/T tickets when we went there as tourists. But I don't remember having to produce the return part and show it to anyone.

I can definitely rebut the question in the title--I've been to China many times on tourist visas, I've never given them any evidence of our tickets.

The actual OP is asking about a specific visa, though and I can't address that.In fairness, though I've also been many times on tourist visas and never show evidence of tickets (or hotel reservations), I can't recall whether I had to do so the first time I got a visa. I'm pretty sure that, the more visas you get, and the more trips you make without incident, the easier it is to get visas in the future. For example, when I first started going, I could only get 30-day visa single or double entry visas. Now, I always get one-year multiple entry visas and, usually, the same day, i.e. drop everything off in the morning, go get lunch, come back an hour or two later and my visa is ready for me (I do pay the expedite fee, but it's a lot easier than making two trips).

In fairness, though I've also been many times on tourist visas and never show evidence of tickets (or hotel reservations), I can't recall whether I had to do so the first time I got a visa. I'm pretty sure that, the more visas you get, and the more trips you make without incident, the easier it is to get visas in the future. For example, when I first started going, I could only get 30-day visa single or double entry visas. Now, I always get one-year multiple entry visas and, usually, the same day, i.e. drop everything off in the morning, go get lunch, come back an hour or two later and my visa is ready for me (I do pay the expedite fee, but it's a lot easier than making two trips).

I think they have in general gotten a lot more liberal in issuing visas. Some years back when my MIL was near death we were trying to maintain a visa at all times, but even when she went down to the public safety bureau and explained the problem they wouldn't budge--single entry for 30 days within 90 days of issue was all they would offer. Now we both hold 2-year/60-day/multi-entry visas.

We've never shown tickets, we've never even had hotel reservations. We just put down the address of the relative's place we will be staying.

I think they have in general gotten a lot more liberal in issuing visas. Some years back when my MIL was near death we were trying to maintain a visa at all times, but even when she went down to the public safety bureau and explained the problem they wouldn't budge--single entry for 30 days within 90 days of issue was all they would offer. Now we both hold 2-year/60-day/multi-entry visas.

We've never shown tickets, we've never even had hotel reservations. We just put down the address of the relative's place we will be staying.We've never listed our relatives' addresses . . . because we never stay there. ;) Well, hardly ever.

I think you're right about China liberalizing visas, and I think it's probably true with respect to most aspects of China policies with respect to foreigners. Though I hadn't started going during the time of mandatory, "Friendship Stores," assigned minders, scrip, etc., I still remember (rather vividly) security personnel with desks by the hotel elevators, "Security Bureau" rules in the hotel rooms, etc.

I applied for a work visa a year ago and wasn't required to show evidence of a booked airticket. I'd imagine the formal employment documentation means a lot more than an air ticket.

As stated, for 'Z' visa work permits, you don't any evidence of a ticket. We bought our one-way tickets after our visa was issued.

tb

Thanks for the replies; good not to have to worry about (at least one of) the logistics involved.

Q: "why wouldn't one buy a fully refundable ticket and then get the money back after the visa is granted?"
A: Costs too much.

You buy the ticket the day before visa application. Refund the ticket after they have seen the ticket. If both transactions occur within a statement period, there is no money out of your pocket at all.

In fact as long as the refund is issued before the payment due date (after you have received the statement with the purchase only and the refund appears later), there is still nothing out-of-pocket.

Well unless you can't charge $1000 on your credit card or you pick an airline that takes its time to issue a refund.

"If both transactions occur within a statement period, there is no money out of your pocket at all....Well unless you can't charge $1000 on your credit card"

I doubt that she could afford such a purchase; and I'm not inclined to donate any more!

Well unless you can't charge $1000 on your credit card or you pick an airline that takes its time to issue a refund.

For that matter, any ticket out of China, including a short trip that is less expensive, should do.

For that matter, any ticket out of China, including a short trip that is less expensive, should do.

A fully flexible economy return ticket is likely to cost far more than $1000. Although in theory the purchaser is not out of pocket (am not sure OP fully appreciated this point, since they mentioned 'donating any more') if the ticket is refunded, having sufficient leeway in credit may be a factor.

Since it's not necessary in any case, I think there's no need.

tb

A fully flexible economy return ticket is likely to cost far more than $1000. Although in theory the purchaser is not out of pocket (am not sure OP fully appreciated this point, since they mentioned 'donating any more') if the ticket is refunded, having sufficient leeway in credit may be a factor.

Since it's not necessary in any case, I think there's no need.

tb

You can usually get a full-flex ticket around $3000. Most people can get credit cards with limits enough to cover a $3k spend.

In fairness, though I've also been many times on tourist visas and never show evidence of tickets (or hotel reservations), I can't recall whether I had to do so the first time I got a visa. I'm pretty sure that, the more visas you get, and the more trips you make without incident, the easier it is to get visas in the future. For example, when I first started going, I could only get 30-day visa single or double entry visas. Now, I always get one-year multiple entry visas and, usually, the same day, i.e. drop everything off in the morning, go get lunch, come back an hour or two later and my visa is ready for me (I do pay the expedite fee, but it's a lot easier than making two trips).
Starting several months before the Beijing Olympics, China started to require documented hotel reservations for the entire proposed period in China on a tourist visa. They also got tough on the entertainer category. Since then, there have been periods when hotel reservations have been required when the Tibet political situation (and policy not to issue permits to foreigners) has been especially sensitive.

More generally, IME if you first have a single or double entry tourist visa, future visas tend to be multiple entry even if you don't explicly request this.

I think they have in general gotten a lot more liberal in issuing visas. Some years back when my MIL was near death we were trying to maintain a visa at all times, but even when she went down to the public safety bureau and explained the problem they wouldn't budge--single entry for 30 days within 90 days of issue was all they would offer. Now we both hold 2-year/60-day/multi-entry visas.

We've never shown tickets, we've never even had hotel reservations. We just put down the address of the relative's place we will be staying.
Visiting relatives normally doesn't fall into the scope of a tourist visa. The rules could be very different.

Even if an outbound ticket is required (unlikely for a Z visa application), note that OUTBOUND does not mean RETURN. Very important distinction. Even when China asks for outbound tickets, anything leaving China to another destination is normally fine, it doesn't have to literally be a return back to the original country. To fill the need for the return at lowest cost possible look into things like refundable tickets for:

--Xiamen-Hong Kong
--Kunming-Bangkok

And of course make up a dummy itinerary (where required) that fits this little charade. Remember that once you actually get the Chinese visa, nobody checks your actual in-country movements, entry, exit, etc against the application.

Also note that some Chinese missions will accept outbound international overland ticket bookings as well as air tickets. In which case something like train Guangzhou-Hong Kong is mighty handy: cheap (USD 25), refundable, and bookable in advance, in English, on Hong Kong's MTR website.

Then there's the nonrefundable "throwaway" international ticket strategy on low-cost carriers like Air Asia or Spring. Which needs a bit of advance planning to work as that's when fares on those carriers are most heavily discounted.

For that matter, any ticket out of China, including a short trip that is less expensive, should do.
Some visas require intent/evidence of plans to return to home country shortly after the end of the visit covered by the visa. A ticket to a third country doesn't necessarily fulfill this requirement.

Visiting relatives normally doesn't fall into the scope of a tourist visa. The rules could be very different.

The category of visa (L) is actually the same for both family visit and tourism purposes. The main difference is that durations of stay given for family visit purposes are typically longer (120 days or more) than those given for tourism purposes (mostly 30, 60, or 90 days). And yes, I do agree that rules on submitting transportation methods and accommodation bookings, in places where those are required for standard tourists, are typically waived for family visits. The only time I can remember an exception to this was during the 2008 Olympic summer, where even those visiting family needed to provide a bit of extra paperwork to get a visa.

Offtopic, I had a refundable ticket from China Eastern that I requested a refund but never received. I have written to them with no response. It has been over 6 months and I don't think my credit card company will handle it but I think I am forced to give them a call. Any suggestions?

Offtopic, I had a refundable ticket from China Eastern that I requested a refund but never received. I have written to them with no response. It has been over 6 months and I don't think my credit card company will handle it but I think I am forced to give them a call. Any suggestions?

Either you or one of your subordinates should call them at the same time every week. The time spent harassing them will likely be more costly than the ticket itself, but if you care about principle, this is the best road. (I wrote a thread about this same topic along time ago... my nemesis was CZ.)

Visiting relatives normally doesn't fall into the scope of a tourist visa. The rules could be very different.

Huh? What other visa makes more sense? It's not business, it's not school, it's not work.

We always mark "visiting relatives" as one of the purposes of our visit on the immigration card, nobody's ever said anything about it.

Huh? What other visa makes more sense? It's not business, it's not school, it's not work.

We always mark "visiting relatives" as one of the purposes of our visit on the immigration card, nobody's ever said anything about it.

Exactly what you should do.

The category of visa (L) is actually the same for both family visit and tourism purposes.

Per my #22 post above. I believe MSEcon was probably not aware that the L visa has multiple uses under current Chinese regulation. Family visit is one of these. The problem comes when people casually toss around "tourist visa" as an equivalent, when in fact tourism is only one of the legitimate uses of the L visa.

In fact, resident foreign spouses (nonworking) of a Chinese citizen, are also given L visas, normally for 1-2 years at a time, with multiple entries and no duration of stay limitations at all. L visas are also issued to foreign expat children once they attain the age of 18, at which time they lose their Z-dependent visa status which came from their working expat parent. And yes, the support paperwork for each of these subcategories of L could be different for the application.

Either you or one of your subordinates should call them at the same time every week. The time spent harassing them will likely be more costly than the ticket itself, but if you care about principle, this is the best road. (I wrote a thread about this same topic along time ago... my nemesis was CZ.)

Think I am going to visit them in person and demand they pay my credit card interest and to issue the refund in cash at that moment or call the police on them. This many months, ignoring written requests, all a very serious crime that the government should fine the hell out of them for it. They should have got on top of such issues when the government was cracking down to supermarkets scamming consumers last year.

Think I am going to visit them in person and demand they pay my credit card interest and to issue the refund in cash at that moment or call the police on them. This many months, ignoring written requests, all a very serious crime that the government should fine the hell out of them for it. They should have got on top of such issues when the government was cracking down to supermarkets scamming consumers last year.

I spent 18 months fighting with CZ over a similar issue, and I assume that MU is a similar beast. The thing you have to realize is that they simply don't care. You'll get your money back eventually, but they will almost certainly use delay tactics to their advantage. As I mentioned earlier, there is no economic benefit to you in this battle if you have to spend 18 months and 200 hours in order to grasp y2000 from them. That having been said, I encourage you to go for it; the day I defeated CZ, I was extremely happy.

Update:
People offering the job contract want full health exam (ok), she can't go over more than 2 days early or there will be visa "problems" (so much for visiting friends) and they "strongly advise" a R/T ticket that she will have to change later.
And, because she is young and a rule-follower, guess I'll help her jump through the hoops!

Update:
People offering the job contract want full health exam (ok), she can't go over more than 2 days early or there will be visa "problems" (so much for visiting friends) and they "strongly advise" a R/T ticket that she will have to change later.
And, because she is young and a rule-follower, guess I'll help her jump through the hoops!

I'd be somewhat wary of all of this: there are a lot of sketchy places that will attempt to have you work on an L or F visa, particularly as a teacher, which is illegal. It is possible that she would be asked for a round trip ticket by an airline in this case (though extremely unlikely that Chinese immigration would do so). However, if she has a Z visa, which is the only status that she should legally be entering China under if working, there is absolutely no need for a round trip ticket.

Also, in general, the health exam required to convert a Z visa into a residence permit is completed inside China within 30 days of arrival, not in advance.

It may well be possible that they are advising a round trip ticket because this can often be cheaper than a one way fare, but it may also be possible that they're hiring illegally. Just something to be aware of.

I'll defer to someone more knowledgable on the 2 days thing, but I can't think of any rules related to this off-hand.

If the school admin office is shut down for some reason (school holidays?) until the suggested arrival date, they may not be able to help process the conversion of the Z visa to a residence permit within the 30 day window. I can't otherwise think of a reason for that suggestion.

The health screening certainly does make it likely that this is a legit Z visa, since otherwise one doesn't need one on an F/L visa.

I think the most likely reason is that chinese bureaucracy is not good at creatively assisting the admin process: they've done things a certain way, and to deviate is tantamount to doing it wrong.

tb