Luxury Hotels - Airline Like Pricing Games at FS

Today I changed a reservation at an FS for a reservation a week out from 5 days to 4 days and and the first thing out of the reservation agent's mouth was "let me check to see how this will affect your rate." I was then told the daily rate would increase from $749 to $889 but that FS was offering a one time per customer exemption from this new pricing policy.

I stay at FS because I know I can get a good, product at a reasonable and predictable price. If I have to start jumping through hoops to make sure I get a reasonable rate, I'm just going to start staying someplace else. This is type of chickensh!t cr&p that you expect out of airlines or cheap hotels not a luxury hotel chain. FS, please stop this BS!

Why is adjusting supply/prices in response to demand "chickensh!t cr&p"??

To say that that is somehow inconsistent with luxury makes no sense. Though I am surprised that the rate would change by virtue of reducing the stay by one day. What would happen if you just told them at check-in that you were leaving one day earlier?

Edited to add: P.S., this can work both ways. I refrained from booking the FS Austin four weeks out, but checked again two weeks before my stay, and the price had dropped by 30%.

Why is OP entitled to one rate when the rest of the world functions based on supply and demand. In particular upscale places have rates which have minimum stays.

When you violate the t&c of the conditions, you get the rate applicable to the stay you now want.

Who in their right mind would book the shorter stay in the first instance if they knew that they could book the cheaper rate for a longer stay and then make the change without paying the higher rate?

This one smacks of OP getting caught out and reacting against the hotel rather than taking responsibility.

It is a bit of a culture shock, though, if you spent years booking FS properties knowing exactly what the rate was going to be, with possible upside if they'd popped in some promos for those dates.

OP here. Just to clarify the original rate was not based on any packages, minimum stays, weekend rates, etc. It was just a flat daily rack rate. When I went to shorten my stay, they tried to change the daily rate.

Sure the hotels are free to do that. The airlines get away with it because regulation limits competition and their customers are mostly hoi polloi. There is plenty of competition in hotels....even at the high end.

Like Raffles says, when staying at luxury hotels you expect a predictable hassle free experience including the booking and reservation process. If FS doesn't want to be in that business anymore, there are plenty of other nice places to stay.

i think one thing this is related to is the removal of rates from the website. The rates for a specific time period used to be well published. Now, it appears that FS has gone to dynamic pricing, related to supply and demand.

FDW

when staying at luxury hotels you expect a predictable hassle free experience including the booking and reservation process. If FS doesn't want to be in that business anymore, there are plenty of other nice places to stay.

I fully agree!

For which property?

There's been some discussion in a few recent threads about FS switching to dynamic pricing, but this is the first I've heard of it "rearing its ugly head".

As an avid FS fan, I, too, would be very disappointed in this situation -- especially as the OP has pointed out he did not have any type of specialty rate booked.

thank you ^
this is totally different...

Today I changed a reservation at an FS for a reservation a week out from 5 days to 4 days...daily rate would increase from $749 to $889

what was the cancelation(/change/deposit) policy?

$140 x 4 = $560 vs $749 original 5th nt trying to be canceled

thank you ^
this is totally different...



what was the cancelation(/change/deposit) policy?

$140 x 4 = $560 vs $749 original 5th nt trying to be canceled

ill have to do an updated recap

No charge up to either 24 or 48 hours prior to 6pm day of check in. Can't remember which. Made the change 4 or 5 days out.

Edit - Checked the original booking it was up 24 hours prior to arrival local time.

FS RC Chicago.

I didn't see any problem with that, it's all about demand and supply. If today the room rate drop, will people complain their pricing strategy? In the future more and more hotel group will starts rolling out the revenue management strategy, similar to the airlines system.

I didn't see any problem with that, it's all about demand and supply. If today the room rate drop, will people complain their pricing strategy? In the future more and more hotel group will starts rolling out the revenue management strategy, similar to the airlines system.

I have a big problem with this type of pricing, especially at Four Seasons. Once reserved, nightly rates should never be subject to increase if a guest amends a booking, unless the original booking was subject to a minimum stay requirement or included complimentary nights (e.g. Fourth night free).

Rate reductions are different, as guests have always been able to amend bookings to take advantage of lower rates or promotions.

No charge up to either 24 or 48 hours prior to 6pm day of check in. Can't remember which. Made the change 4 or 5 days out.

Edit - Checked the original booking it was up 24 hours prior to arrival local time.

FS RC Chicago.

I'm at this hotel very frequently and have communicated to senior management that the new system is frustrating for frequent Four Seasons guests. While I think it makes a bit more sense at this particular property, given that they have 450 rooms to fill, I can't understand how (or, more accurately, why) such a major spike result in slightly changing the parameters of a stay. That's the kind of thing that may bring in the hotel an extra few dollars, but cost them loyalty over many years.

Hotels are more than welcome to base their rate structure on supply and demand, just as guests are welcome to take their business elsewhere if dynamic rate fluctuations prove complicating.

I have a big problem with this type of pricing, especially at Four Seasons. Once reserved, nightly rates should never be subject to increase if a guest amends a booking, unless the original booking was subject to a minimum stay requirement or included complimentary nights (e.g. Fourth night free).

Rate reductions are different, as guests have always been able to amend bookings to take advantage of lower rates or promotions.

It seems to me that you want to have best of both worlds. You are saying that it is not alright for a business (which, no matter what their mission statement is; in the end the goal is to make money) to ask more money for a product that is in demand, and less money when the same product is in less demand.

On the other hand it is alright for you to amend bookings as soon as a cheaper rate shows up, thus in essence losing the company revenue?

I do not know what it is you do for a living, but let's for arguments sake presume that you are a consultant and a company has hired you to review certain aspects of their operation, they want you to do this from December 1st until December 5th, 5 days total for which you provided them a quote and they agreed to. Unfortunately the neighbor of the sister of the manager in charge’s girlfriend who was supposed to run the review with you got severely sick and the review is postponed to December 24th till 29th. Using your arguments the price should remain the same, because that is what you agreed to for 5 days of work. Obviously that it covers Christmas doesn’t mean that the price should fluctuate?

That's the kind of thing that may bring in the hotel an extra few dollars, but cost them loyalty over many years.


Exactly!!!!

The problem is that the bean counters can measure the former but not the latter. This is why airline pricing is so screwed up and people hate to fly.

Businesses including airlines and especially luxury hotels should be trying to figure out not how they can get an extra nickel out of me when I stay there, but how they can get me to stay there more often.

blah blah.... December 1st until December 5th, 5 days total...blah blah... postponed to December 24th till 29th...blah blah.... the price should remain the same, because that is what you agreed to for 5 days of work

What happened is that they asked for a quote for 5 days of work from Dec 1 to Dec 5, and then they called back later and said they only needed 4 days of work from Dec 1 to Dec 4.

Totally different than your analogy.

Exactly!!!!

The problem is that the bean counters can measure the former but not the latter. This is why airline pricing is so screwed up and people hate to fly.

Businesses including airlines and especially luxury hotels should be trying to figure out not how they can get an extra nickel out of me when I stay there, but how they can get me to stay there more often.



What happened is that they asked for a quote for 5 days of work from Dec 1 to Dec 5, and then they called back later and said they only needed 4 days of work from Dec 1 to Dec 4.

Totally different than your analogy.

I was quoting and thus refferring to MikeFromTokyo, who stated the following:

Once reserved, nightly rates should never be subject to increase if a guest amends a booking

I agree with the point that you are trying to make that it is quite strange that your daily rate would change while only trying to shorten your stay with 1 night, when there were no special requirements in place for your rate.

No charge up to either 24...hours prior to 6pm day of check in...Made the change 4 or 5 days out.

FS RC Chicago

people need to read what OP is saying...

this is insane. hopefully (and presumably if i dare say so) some kind of error on the part of non-mgmt person because the system (like by invitation) is brand new. look at how often there are problems with preferred partner, and it is NOT new.

even in my limited experience, ive dealt with tons of issues when dealing with non mgmt, and no issues im aware of when dealing with mgmt.

considering how many people here talk about booking with GM, i completely understand this position.

i do value some TA upgrades, so personally, ill talk to mgmt then book via TA if there are upgrades etc.

i did an updated recap in this thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxury-hotels/1340498-fs-toronto-site-florence-mauritius.html

Is it possible that, unknowingly to the the OP, they had originally put him on a "buy 4 nights, get the 5th night free" rate? I have been getting Amex FHR flyers lately and a fair number of places are doing that.

I don't think this is likely, and I don't know this hotel, but it seems at least theoretically possible.

really? am i misinterpreting some of these posts as saying OP must be making some kind of mistake?

http://www.fourseasons.com/chicagorc/offers/
3rd nt free only
no FHR offer

really? am i misinterpreting some of these posts as saying OP must be making some kind of mistake?

http://www.fourseasons.com/chicagorc/offers/
3rd nt free only
no FHR offer

Nope, you got it right, my speculation was misplaced.

OP here again. One other thing. When I called in to change the reservation. The agent was very quick to offer a very rehearsed "one time per customer exemption" to the rate change. IMHO, this is a clear and deliberate policy change that management knows is going to make people unhappy and they have taken specific steps ("one time exemption") to cushion the blow and lessen the fury this is going to cause with their loyal customers.

Even though FS gave me the one time exemption and honored the original rate, I have written management. If I don't get a satisfactory response, I'm going to cancel the reservation, book elsewhere and send management a copy of the new reservation in order to make sure they know how unhappy I am with this change.

I don't mind paying a reasonable price for a high quality product, but I'll be damned if I have to play a silly guessing game trying to figure when and how to book in order to not to get ripped off. I'm sick and tired of doing it with the airlines, and while I love FS and always stay there on city trips, I don't love them enough that I'm going to put up with this cr&p.

Sure the hotels are free to do that. The airlines get away with it because regulation limits competition and their customers are mostly hoi polloi. There is plenty of competition in hotels....even at the high end.

Another post that is ignorant of economics. Yeah, sure, the airline business is more capital-intensive than the hotel business, so there are fewer players in some markets, but to say that airlines don't face just as much price competition as hotels, or other businesses, is not accurate. And "regulation" does not much constrain (nowadays, thankfully) carriers' pricing.

So, your stance is that greedy capitalists can take advantage of the "hoi polloi," but not the elite such as yourself. This could be a great new FlyerTalk mantra!

So, your stance is that greedy capitalists can take advantage of the "hoi polloi," but not the elite such as yourself. This could be a great new FlyerTalk mantra!

Actually, the point is that someone booking at the FS is generally not motivated primarily by price. The "airline customers only base their decisions on schedule and price" argument is usually trotted out in response to ridiculous airline pricing policies, and obviously doesn't apply here. As others have pointed out, luxury hotels have to balance the impact on brand and loyalty versus the short-term incremental revenue opportunity.

again, OP was told if they dropped a night, their rate goes up, almost making up for dropped night.
cancelation/change/deposit did not apply.

there is nothing like this, and nothing supports this. i have to assume its a mistake, and that it is supposed to be when cancelation/change/deposit applies, or when it is a cancel/rebook, or when simply ADDING days, or something else like specific rate conditions like min stay. reported problems with new by invitation, and OLD preferred partner would support that idea.

discussion is fine, but lets not lose track of that.

i have to assume its a mistake.


Many hotel chains / ind hotels do this.... Its dynamic pricing at work. The computer looks at what is available today when it goes to make a change and pulls today's rate info. However, i've personally rarely gone up against a rehearsed "one time exception speech". Generally just needed some human intervention. This is probably a FS thing that will be reviewed and re-worked in the weeks ahead. Does not help OP that the hotel is sold out, perhaps even over-sold.

again, OP was told if they dropped a night, their rate goes up, almost making up for dropped night.
cancelation/change/deposit did not apply.

there is nothing like this, and nothing supports this. i have to assume its a mistake, and that it is supposed to be when cancelation/change/deposit applies, or when it is a cancel/rebook, or when simply ADDING days, or something else like specific rate conditions like min stay.

reported problems with new by invitation, and OLD preferred partner would support that idea.

discussion is fine, but lets not lose track of that.

Good points Kage.
I am interested in this- if it was a buy four get one night free thing OK- it doesn't seem like this is the case however- if it is a new switch to dynamic pricing on rack rates- this is a concern.

I can completely understand certain promotional rates being subject to availability and length of stay requirements- however if those two conditions are met it does not seem to be correct to penalize the customer for changes unless they are material to the rate rules.

Another good reason to use a good travel agent who can understand all this.

they were dropping, NOT adding
they did NOT cancel and rebook

all this side discussion is losing track of this

the REAL comparison is if canceling ONE of MULTIPLE airline tickets and being told you have to pay MORE for the one you are KEEPING (lets say full fare with no cancelation/change fee)

this does NOT happen

or, returning one of multiple to a store, and being told you owe more for the one you are keeping

so, could new dynamic pricing system lead to confusion by reservations agents when DROPPING nights? the agent was rebooking, even thought OP was NOT doing that? agent didnt have ability to drop night?

$140 x 4 = $560 vs $749 original 5th nt trying to be canceled
...
I am surprised that the rate would change by virtue of reducing the stay by one day.
I agree with the point that you are trying to make that it is quite strange that your daily rate would change while only trying to shorten your stay with 1 night, when there were no special requirements in place for your rate.
that, and not this >
minimum stays

When you violate the t&c of the conditions
"buy 4 nights, get the 5th night free" rate?
separate >
make a change

You are splitting hairs.... In the hotel industry, adjusting your check in and check out nights is a modification, which is just another way to say a change.

again, that makes no sense.

youre saying a hotel would turn down revenue from EXTENDING a stay, because they insist on raising the rates for the EXISTING booking?

obviously hotel always wants to rebook higher, but they have to DO it. OP was a week out. they could have been a day out. (now im supposing OP was adding not dropping.) and hotel is going to tell them to take a hike? there is no way they can rebook unless there is already a waiting list.

i just cannot believe a sales manager or general manager is going to be relying on whatever this system nonsense is instead of simply talking to guest on case by case basis, because they ALREADY do that, potentially giving guests WAY more value than we are talking about here.

You are splitting hairs.... In the hotel industry, adjusting your check in and check out nights is a modification, which is just another way to say a change.

ABG,

What about if you book a regular rate (no promos) for 4 nights and you tell them after night 3 that you have to check out--is that a modification that should warrant a price adjustment? :confused:

Ciao!

I've run into this issue before (with Hyatt), and if this is a policy change, it seems really shortsighted.

If the OP had booked each night individually (which would have been possible give that the rate had no minimum stay requirements), there would have been no issue with cancelling the 5th night. So why should this be any different if it's all on one reservation? Does FS really want us to book multiple 1-night reservations instead of one multiple-night reservation to get around this? That just makes it more inefficient for everyone.

Why does FS want to play these games in the first place? :confused:

.....................

I've run into this issue before (with Hyatt), and if this is a policy change, it seems really shortsighted.

If the OP had booked each night individually (which would have been possible give that the rate had no minimum stay requirements), there would have been no issue with cancelling the 5th night. So why should this be any different if it's all on one reservation? Does FS really want us to book multiple 1-night reservations instead of one multiple-night reservation to get around this? That just makes it more inefficient for everyone.

Why does FS want to play these games in the first place? :confused:

thank you. exactly. i will do this for upgrades. i havent done it yet, only one booking that i canceled.

i really dont understand how this issue is becoming so confused.

are you saying its an actual policy at hyatt? (dont let you drop, turn down add)

again, that makes no sense.


You are the one saying that the OP isn't making a change.... based on your quotes of quotes above. I'm telling you its a computer and if you adjust a booking in anyway, the computer looks at the rates currently available to confirm the adjustment. As someone mentioned, Hyatt does it and I know Hilton does it too. Only a human can go beyond that.

Interesting fine print at the bottom of the page for FS Ritz Chicago Rates
http://www.fourseasons.com/chicagorc/offers/room_rate/

patakfan, in my expereince some hotels charge an early check out
fee... Four Seasons LA on Doheny for example has this on their site:

"Rates are per room, per night, vary by arrival date and/or length of stay, and do not include applicable taxes, service charges, levies, resort fees, gratuities or surcharges, unless otherwise noted. Rates are subject to change. An early departure fee of one night's room rate plus tax will be applied for departures that are earlier than the original confirmed departure date."
http://www.fourseasons.com/losangeles/offers/room_rate/

Only a human can go beyond that

Generally just needed some human intervention
reservations manager would have direct authority to override the computer
so mgmt does do it, and it has to be mgmt

although what about worldwide sales offices?

OP here again. One other thing. When I called in to change the reservation. The agent was very quick to offer a very rehearsed "one time per customer exemption" to the rate change. IMHO, this is a clear and deliberate policy change that management knows is going to make people unhappy and they have taken specific steps ("one time exemption") to cushion the blow and lessen the fury this is going to cause with their loyal customers.

Were you calling FS central reservations? They have practically no discretion - to override what's programmed into the computer, they would have to call the hotel's in-house reservations department where a reservations manager would have direct authority to override the computer.

Assuming you're not working with a TA, that would be my first step - call the hotel directly to revise the dates of your stay …

thank you. exactly. i will do this for upgrades. i havent done it yet, only one booking that i canceled.

i really dont understand how this issue is becoming so confused.

are you saying its an actual policy at hyatt? (dont let you drop, turn down add)

I've encountered this at quite a few hotels in recent years, not at all uncommon for Hyatt/Hilton etc. I usually only notice it if there some high demand period (special event, convention etc) going on and there is a huge variance in rates before and after the event.

While I have run into the same situation as the OP and I have also had the reverse, where adding a day to the stay dropped the rates for the entire stay substantially as the low demand rate was now in effect for the full stay.

The idea of dynamic pricing for hotels is fine but as currently implemented at most places it still seems very clunky, particularly given how much more flexible hotel reservations generally are vs air tickets. If the hotel wants to bump my rate 20% for shortening the stay with advance notice, there is nothing stopping me from booking at the place down the street and cancelling the entire stay.

For an FS it seems particularly nickel/dime to implement it as described by the OP.

Was the night dropped perhaps a cheaper night? If it was significantly cheaper then the other 4 nights, then dropping it would make the average night go up without the rate actually changing on the other 4 nights.

For example if the nights were 1000,1000,1000,1000,200 then dropping the last night would make the average rate go from 840 to 1000.

OP here. - For the third time, it was the daily rack rate. No packages. No third night free. No special weekend rates. The rate was the same for every night. I dropped one night and they wanted to jack up the rate for the remaining nights because the daily rack rate had gone up.

Spoke to management at FSRC, and they confirmed that they are doing dynamic pricing based on occupancy so the rate you are quoted will depend not only on when you are staying but when you make you're booking.

Dynamic pricing and the policy to rebook the entire stay when one or more nights are dropped are different issues. I've heard of approximately $50 early checkout fees when a stay is shortened after checkin imposed by some hotel chains and I try to avoid Hilton because they do the "cancel and make the reservation all over again" game when one needs to make a change such as shortening the stay.

When I have a normal (not nonrefundable, promo, stay X get one free, minimum stay period, etc.) hotel reservation, it's reasonable to expect to be able to delete some nights if this is done before the cancellation deadline. I normally do not make every night a different reservation unless I need to do this because different nights are available at different rates or different rate plans (such as AAA rates only on some days), but I will if I must and this will be less efficient for everyone. I'm also starting to learn that after making a refundable hotel reservation through the hotel's website, should continually check back to see whether the rate has dropped. To me, this is a big waste of time and is somewhat tacky. It could drive me to always book through FHR and similar programs rather than directly with the hotel.

Spoke to management at FSRC, and they confirmed that they are doing dynamic pricing based on occupancy so the rate you are quoted will depend not only on when you are staying but when you make you're booking.
That's all fine & dandy, but to extend it to a situation like yours seems REALLY tacky, and short-sighted.

As a FSBI member, and someone who's stayed at 30+ different properties, if they insist on implementing this, then I firmly believe they greatly run the risk of alienating not only "first-timers", but loyalists such as myself.

I understand they waived it for you, but it just reeks of poor CS.

That's all fine & dandy, but to extend it to a situation like yours seems REALLY tacky, and short-sighted.

As a FSBI member, and someone who's stayed at 30+ different properties, if they insist on implementing this, then I firmly believe they greatly run the risk of alienating not only "first-timers", but loyalists such as myself.

I understand they waived it for you, but it just reeks of poor CS.

Totally agree. It means 1) that I'm going to book five 1-night reservations instead of one 5-night reservation, and 2) that once I book, I'll keep checking for lower rates and cancel the original reservation if a lower rate becomes available.

Very short-sighted.

As long as the reservation agent tick "fixed rate" in the system, your rate won't be change even shorten the stay.

Most of the internationalchains are doing dynamic pricing now, better check the rate again before arrive in two or three days before.

Why not just keep the booking as-is and inform the front desk before noon the morning you want to leave that you're checking out 1 day early? If the FS has made this type of change subject to a charge that it's clearly not-market and I will curtail my FS patronage.

I've never been charged a dime for doing that in any hotel whether it be lux or mainline big chain (eg *wood). As a matter of fact, I've done it the last two weeks in a row at two different chains and countless times over the last decade or two.

For The Peninsula New York, I just noticed the following at the reservation stage on peninsula.com:

Room availablity and rate may be subject to change if amendments are made to a confirmed booking

I suspect this is new, as I have never seen it before.

Not fs but a couple of years ago we were in Boston for new year. Rates were steep. Big storm came in and fireworks cancelled. I was in lobby and suddenly a massive rush to cancel rooms and rebook. Seems the hotel had had dozens of cancellations and so dropped room rate suddenly. I had booked mine as single nights with a 3pm cancellation. We paid about 75 Per cent less. Didn't change rooms.

Since then I check rate at hotels just before I arrive and cancel and rebook if it's cheaper. Booked same stay at fs in sharm 3 different times last year as rates kept dropping or extra stuff got chucked in.

Not fs but a couple of years ago we were in Boston for new year. Rates were steep. Big storm came in and fireworks cancelled. I was in lobby and suddenly a massive rush to cancel rooms and rebook. Seems the hotel had had dozens of cancellations and so dropped room rate suddenly. I had booked mine as single nights with a 3pm cancellation. We paid about 75 Per cent less. Didn't change rooms.

Since then I check rate at hotels just before I arrive and cancel and rebook if it's cheaper. Booked same stay at fs in sharm 3 different times last year as rates kept dropping or extra stuff got chucked in.

That's exactly what I don't want to have to do!

I made a booking at the FS Park Lane a month ago for a 1-night stay in a Deluxe Room at £770.

I've checked their site several times after and the rate was always the same. Then yesterday (the day prior to arrival) I checked and the rate had dropped to £450!

I called AMEX (it was a FHR booking), who then contacted the property. They altered the rate to the new lower rate even though I had already passed the cancellation deadline (12pm one day prior). I was very satisfied - and would have been extremely unpleasant if I checked in at £770.

They did not upgrade me on arrival to the next category, which was only £20 more (simply a better view) even though that room showed as bookable online. I didn't push it as it was only a 1-night stay.

I made a booking at the FS Park Lane a month ago for a 1-night stay in a Deluxe Room at £770.

yesterday (the day prior to arrival) I check and the rate had dropped to £450!

I called AMEX (it was a FHR booking), who then contacted the property. They altered the rate to the new lower rate even though I had already passed the cancellation deadline (12pm one day prior)

good for both FS and FHR

This is a bit of a different situation than the OP but still seems like a pricing game which is not for the consumer's benefit.

Booked the FS Florence for 3 nights in September...the Deluxe room is sold out one of the nights so lowest category is Premier. I am being charged 850 euros nightly for all three nights even though the actual rate per night if I booked 3 1-night reservations is 795 euros, 795 euros and 850 euros respectively. I think this is a little bit disingenuous and am actually thinking of finding an alternative because of the "pricing games".

why not just book 3 x 1 nights then ?

This is a bit of a different situation than the OP but still seems like a pricing game which is not for the consumer's benefit.

Booked the FS Florence for 3 nights in September...the Deluxe room is sold out one of the nights so lowest category is Premier. I am being charged 850 euros nightly for all three nights even though the actual rate per night if I booked 3 1-night reservations is 795 euros, 795 euros and 850 euros respectively. I think this is a little bit disingenuous and am actually thinking of finding an alternative because of the "pricing games".

Well if the only room available for all three nights is the Premier, and you're paying the accordant 850 rate for that category, wouldn't you be booked into it?

Well if the only room available for all three nights is the Premier, and you're paying the accordant 850 rate for that category, wouldn't you be booked into it?
I see what you're saying, but several times I've booked a, for example, 3 night stay where the first two nights are $X, and the last night is $X+Y. Not at FS Florence, but at others.

If I understand the OP correctly, he's saying he can book the SAME room for 3 nights as 3 individual night bookings, or just one 3 night booking, and in the case of the former he comes out ahead by €110 -- not chump change.

Knowing FS has in the past allowed rates to change within a single booking, I can understand his frustration.

why not just book 3 x 1 nights then ?

It seems ridiculous to have to do that.... you would then be subject to possibly moving rooms or check-out/check-in problems. The system should just be able to charge you the actual rate per night, not just the highest rate for all three nights.

I see what you're saying, but several times I've booked a, for example, 3 night stay where the first two nights are $X, and the last night is $X+Y. Not at FS Florence, but at others.

If I understand the OP correctly, he's saying he can book the SAME room for 3 nights as 3 individual night bookings, or just one 3 night booking, and in the case of the former he comes out ahead by €110 -- not chump change.

Knowing FS has in the past allowed rates to change within a single booking, I can understand his frustration.

That's exactly what I'm saying (I'm a she btw :)) I just think the system should be charging whatever the prevailing rate is per night, not taking the highest rate of the entire stay and extending it to each night of the reservation. This is the first time that I have encountered this situation after many hotel stays across all the luxury chains.

Well if the only room available for all three nights is the Premier, and you're paying the accordant 850 rate for that category, wouldn't you be booked into it?

No, I'm actually being charged the rate of the highest night for each night of my stay. If I had made three separate reservations, the rates for the first two nights would be lower. This seems counterintuitive to charge more per night for a longer stay :confused:

It seems ridiculous to have to do that.... you would then be subject to possibly moving rooms or check-out/check-in problems. The system should just be able to charge you the actual rate per night, not just the highest rate for all three nights.

If you need to check in/out, move rooms or if it is all too much trouble for them to link 3 bookings, then I don't see how the hotel can justify its "luxury" tag.
I have done this before, no problem in mere tourist class hotels just to save a tenner, never mind 110 euro

I am being charged 850 euros nightly for all three nights even though the actual rate per night if I booked 3 1-night reservations is 795 euros, 795 euros and 850 euros respectively

more fun

some here arent going to like being required to book with mgmt (can be done via email)

more fun

some here arent going to like being required to book with mgmt

+1. When I stayed at FSRC, I spoke to management about this issue. They said, "Just call and we will work it out for you." That's the last thing I want to spend my time doing.

Today I changed a reservation at an FS for a reservation a week out from 5 days to 4 days and and the first thing out of the reservation agent's mouth was "let me check to see how this will affect your rate." I was then told the daily rate would increase from $749 to $889 but that FS was offering a one time per customer exemption from this new pricing policy.

I stay at FS because I know I can get a good, product at a reasonable and predictable price. If I have to start jumping through hoops to make sure I get a reasonable rate, I'm just going to start staying someplace else. This is type of chickensh!t cr&p that you expect out of airlines or cheap hotels not a luxury hotel chain. FS, please stop this BS!

I have experienced the same thing, it really irritates me and feels lousy.

Thought I would post that there is a positive side to this. I've already checked and changed two bookings to more favorable rates -- one for this past weekend at FS LA, and just today (since I've been reminded) for one in a couple months at FS SB.

In the first case, the rate was lowered ~ $75/nt ++; in the second case, the rate was lowered exactly $100/nt ++.

Interestingly, I made the change for LA around a week and a half ago, and then out of curiosity checked again this past Wednesday. Not only had the rate gone back up, but it had risen higher than my originally booked rate.

Of course I found out the hotel has had its busiest June EVER, and is on pace for the same in July. A full review will be coming soon, but despite 100% occupancy we had one of our best NA stays ever -- absolutely first class.

Nevertheless I just thought I'd post some new data points for the boards consideration.

Thought I would post that there is a positive side to this. I've already checked and changed two bookings to more favorable rates -- one for this past weekend at FS LA, and just today (since I've been reminded) for one in a couple months at FS SB.

In the first case, the rate was lowered ~ $75/nt ++; in the second case, the rate was lowered exactly $100/nt ++.

Interestingly, I made the change for LA around a week and a half ago, and then out of curiosity checked again this past Wednesday. Not only had the rate gone back up, but it had risen higher than my originally booked rate.

Of course I found out the hotel has had its busiest June EVER, and is on pace for the same in July. A full review will be coming soon, but despite 100% occupancy we had one of our best NA stays ever -- absolutely first class.

Nevertheless I just thought I'd post some new data points for the boards consideration.

Thanks, that's helpful.

Now I notice FS has a 24 hours cancellation property no longer a same day cancellation policy. What is the plan here? Hassle us to death?

Now I notice FS has a 24 hours cancellation property no longer a same day cancellation policy. What is the plan here? Hassle us to death?

My understanding is that, at least for the past several years, most FS have required 24 hours notice. However, I've never had a problem asking if I can cancel same day as long as I call and speak to someone and explain the circumstances.

My understanding is that, at least for the past several years, most FS have required 24 hours notice. However, I've never had a problem asking if I can cancel same day as long as I call and speak to someone and explain the circumstances.

Why should I have to call and explain?

Because you may have blocked a room that someone else couldn't get so went to the competition.
Hotels can lose money in those situations so they implement policies to mitigate that.

Because you may have blocked a room that someone else couldn't get so went to the competition.
Hotels can lose money in those situations so they implement policies to mitigate that.

I think we understand the rationale, but 24 hours is untenable for many business travelers.

Noon same day cancel is market IME (though I get 6pm at St Regis).

24 hour is not market and it makes FS less likely to earn my business.

Because you may have blocked a room that someone else couldn't get so went to the competition.
Hotels can lose money in those situations so they implement policies to mitigate that.

Duh..... and that's why I pay more to stay at FS so that they can deal with the logistics and the hassles and I don't have to.

Noon same day cancel is market IME (though I get 6pm at St Regis).
24 hour is not market and it makes FS less likely to earn my business.

Which "market" are you talking about? 5khours has been harsh against FS Chicago, which is by 1800hrs the day prior to check in. A quick survey of other Chicago hotels shows FS is more or less in line or ahead of others, matching Peninsula's policy and less restrictive than both Park Hyatt and Trump at 1500hrs day prior to check in.

Who cares what the market practice is. Those who travel frequently need the flexibility of same day cancel. Staying at FS is really getting to be a hassle. I'm sure over the short run FS can make more money with these clever techniques the bean counters have thought up, but what they don't realize and what the bean counters can't measure is the impact on the long range behavior of those of us who heretofore would have just automatically booked FS without ever thinking about alternatives.

Who cares what the market practice is. Those who travel frequently need the flexibility of same day cancel. Staying at FS is really getting to be a hassle. I'm sure over the short run FS can make more money with these clever techniques the bean counters have thought up, but what they don't realize and what the bean counters can't measure is the impact on the long range behavior of those of us who heretofore would have just automatically booked FS without ever thinking about alternatives.

I'm not sure that your frustration is well-placed. Every other luxury hotel in Chicago (FS, RC, Pen, PH, Trump, Elysian/WH) has a 24-hour cancel policy or some variant therein. Additionally, I've found this to be the norm for pretty much every five-star city hotel in the United States. Resorts are a totally different story. I"m not sure if this translates to FS making it a hassle to stay with them, particularly as they have always been willing to change a 24 hour to a same-day cancel as long as I reach out with a 30 second phone call in advance.

I'm not sure that your frustration is well-placed. Every other luxury hotel in Chicago (FS, RC, Pen, PH, Trump, Elysian/WH) has a 24-hour cancel policy or some variant therein. Additionally, I've found this to be the norm for pretty much every five-star city hotel in the United States. Resorts are a totally different story. I"m not sure if this translates to FS making it a hassle to stay with them, particularly as they have always been willing to change a 24 hour to a same-day cancel as long as I reach out with a 30 second phone call in advance.

Quick spot check of NYC RC/FS/MO in early August:
FS: 6pm day prior
RC: Day prior, presumably though 11:59pm
MO: Day prior, presumably though 11:59pm

So a difference, yes, but not the same as if it was noon same day vs day prior

I often find RCs with the standard cancel of noon same day which can be helpful. Corp rates often do better than that.