Air France Frequence Plus - AF PV review, DTW-CDG

All I can say is its just about what most have described on this forum.
The seats are hard hard hard. In fact my wife made some special thin pillows to take, she has a bad back and she was still miserable. the leg rests and foot rests are about useless, the seat does not recline, bottom slides forward which makes you slouch down in the seat.
AF lost one of our priority checked bags on the way to FCO, got it back 3 days later, it never left CDG even though we had almost 3 hrs layover there. The service and food is the same as economy, which we knew and expected.
Talked to a fellow pax who is Diamond on DL and she thought the seats were the worst she can remember on any transatlantic and she would never do PV again.

The pluses are of course quicker checkin, lounge access (I'm elite +), larger video screen, and a bit more wiggle room.
We did sit in premium on AF from VCE to CDG on the return and had one of the best flight attendants ever. He could give some of our domestic airline staff some lessons on service.
Bottom line PV Defanitely not worth the higher cost, next time its DL E+.

AF you talk a good game but your seats are **%$!:td:

I agree with you I would definitely not pay the premium for AF PV, but in fairness, most of the competition is same (e.g. AZ) or worse (e.g. BA). The exception would be TK and to an extent QF and NZ. To me, the whole concept of Premium Economy is a scam used by airlines to take a lot of money from passengers just so that they can think that they are 'not flying economy'.

To me, the whole concept of Premium Economy is a scam used by airlines to take a lot of money from passengers just so that they can think that they are 'not flying economy'.

I do not think it's a scam. Having a legrest on PV seats is a huge relief for me and the trays are large enough to work comfotably with a laptop. The price/quality ratio is an issue...

PV exists to upgrade out of. I've bought three TATL PV sectors and sat in Affaires every time :)

I do not think it's a scam. Having a legrest on PV seats is a huge relief for me and the trays are large enough to work comfotably with a laptop. The price/quality ratio is an issue...

And the fact that the obvious way to make Premium Economy a better value is to downgrade low-class Economy even further. For example, imagine, they could be seating people 10 abreast!

...For example, imagine, they could be seating people 10 abreast!Nine abreast used to be the case in many 747s years ago, then all (?) airlines gradually went up to 10.

Nine abreast used to be the case in many 747s years ago, then all (?) airlines gradually went up to 10.

I think that Richelieu is referring to the 777 (narrower that 747) where AF downgraded its regular Y to 10 abreast. I would agree that PE is mostly introduced to match what Y use to be and gives the airline freedom to downgrade Y as mush as physically possible.

BTW, I cannot remember ever flying a 747 with nine abreast, even shortly after introduction.

And the fact that the obvious way to make Premium Economy a better value is to downgrade low-class Economy even further. For example, imagine, they could be seating people 10 abreast!

Indeed, there is one particular version of AF's 77W (one of the two CIO) where Alize seats... 9 abreast like Y before. CQFD... http://www.airfrance.fr/common/image/PlansCabine/fr/B777300_COI_472pax_maxi_fr.gif

I agree with you I would definitely not pay the premium for AF PV, but in fairness, most of the competition is same (e.g. AZ) or worse (e.g. BA). The exception would be TK and to an extent QF and NZ. To me, the whole concept of Premium Economy is a scam used by airlines to take a lot of money from passengers just so that they can think that they are 'not flying economy'.

Dear friend,

I beg to differ from your point of view.

This product is not a perfect one (on the other hand the price is much lower than the biz one), but some advantages are very important, IMHO :

- the width is far better (crucial for me) ;

- the legroom is correct (idem).

If I sit in an Eco seat, it is an ordeal ; if I sit in one of these PV (whatever the aircarrier), I can bear it.

Nine abreast used to be the case in many 747s years ago, then all (?) airlines gradually went up to 10.

Indeed, many years ago I know Braniff International Airways used 9 abreast in their 747's.
But closer to our days, I don't think any airline is using less than 10 abreast in Y.