Other Asian, Australian and South Pacific Frequent Flyer Programs - Why does CA always fly SFO/LAX over Bering?

I've been watching this for over a year. Air China's SFO/LAX routes always fly over the Bering Strait, and the eastbound and westbound routes are virtually identical. Meanwhile, UA PEK-SFO would fly over Korea/Japan and the Pacific most every day and take advantage of the winds.

This phenomenon is also evident between CZ LAX-CAN and CX LAX-HKG. You'll see CX and the flock (CI/BR/SQ ex-Calif) taking a southerly route, but never CZ. Although you'll see MU/CZ eastbound following the flock over the ocean a lot of times.

Today, CA filed PEK-SFO for 11 h 12 min over Bering and UA filed PEK-SFO for 10 h 27 min over Seoul-Tokyo. Both B744.

Is Russia giving CA a deal? Does CA want to avoid Oakland Oceanic?

One thing I can think of is perhaps China charges less for CA, therefore CA sticks in Chinese airspace for as long as possible. I know that mainland airlines still avoid Taiwanese airspace for non TW flights so you'll see CZ LAX-CAN taking a more northerly route, or CA/MU PVG-SYD going around Taiwan. The other is that CA want to play it safe and stick close to the shores where there are diversion airports.

I could see that for CZ but a CA flight from PEK would never touch TW airspace if its going to LAX or SFO.

Of course CA PEK-US/Can would never go near Taiwan. But just about every day UA PEK-SFO flies over South Korea and Japan to take advantage of the jet stream--while paying the Russians to fly west. CA goes over the Bering no matter what. Just two days ago, PEK-LAX actually took longer than LAX-PEK because of winds!

The "anomaly" is why would anybody fly the eastbound route that far north (barriing unusual weather). Going south to catch the wind saves a few hours on those routes.

Could this be an issue with ETOPS certification or such? The southerly (relative) routes are far from anywhere in the middle of the N Pacific and perhaps some jets can not fly them because a single engine failure would put them in water?

EDIT: ETOPS does apply to the operator in addition to the aircraft. So even though the 770/330s obviousy have type approval for ETOPS 180 it is possible that CZ/CA do not yet have the operator approval for such.

EDIT: ETOPS does apply to the operator in addition to the aircraft. So even though the 770/330s obviousy have type approval for ETOPS 180 it is possible that CZ/CA do not yet have the operator approval for such.

CZ's 772 does have ETOPS 180, it operated the first trans-pacific ETOPS flight in 1997. Most CA/MU/CZ/HU long haul planes are ETOPS certified too.

Just a random guess but this may just be a case of organizational inertia. CA may have operated via Russian airspace for many years since the CAAC days. Their pilot briefing and the pre-programmed routes in their flight deck navigation probably default to this particular flight plan. Sure, it probably cost more fuel but until someone high up in the organization actually says something, it is probably just one of those things that never gets changed.

The other possibility is the use of diversion airports. The northerly route passes more Chinese airports in the Northeast before heading out to Russian airspace. The preferred route other airlines use pass through NRT and ICN... not ideal for diversion from CA's point of view. This is also probably the main reason why CZ's CAN flight goes up Chinese coast rather than crossing TPE. There is no political reason to prevent CZ overflight of Taiwan airspace.

Could these routes save them some fees by avoiding flights over Korea/Japan?

Just a random guess but this may just be a case of organizational inertia. CA may have operated via Russian airspace for many years since the CAAC days. Their pilot briefing and the pre-programmed routes in their flight deck navigation probably default to this particular flight plan. Sure, it probably cost more fuel but until someone high up in the organization actually says something, it is probably just one of those things that never gets changed.

The other possibility is the use of diversion airports. The northerly route passes more Chinese airports in the Northeast before heading out to Russian airspace. The preferred route other airlines use pass through NRT and ICN... not ideal for diversion from CA's point of view. This is also probably the main reason why CZ's CAN flight goes up Chinese coast rather than crossing TPE. There is no political reason to prevent CZ overflight of Taiwan airspace.

I'm rather sure there are political issues preventing CZ from flying over Taiwan airspace. Pretty much the same as any mainland to TWN flights need to pass trough a 3rd country/territory airspace before entering Taiwan.
I can imagine Taiwan sending a pair of F16's up to check what's going on if suddenly a CZ flight not schedulled to land in Taiwan decides to take a look over the island.
After all flight time for a jet in an hypothetical "red" atack is only 30 minutes or so, so I bet the Taiwan Air force is not keen on having mainland aircraft messing around.

Could these routes save them some fees by avoiding flights over Korea/Japan?

hmm I'm just curious, it costs money to FLY OVER Korea and Japan?

So Richard Branson was correct when he said that if you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion and open an airline.

I'm rather sure there are political issues preventing CZ from flying over Taiwan airspace. Pretty much the same as any mainland to TWN flights need to pass trough a 3rd country/territory airspace before entering Taiwan.
I can imagine Taiwan sending a pair of F16's up to check what's going on if suddenly a CZ flight not schedulled to land in Taiwan decides to take a look over the island.
After all flight time for a jet in an hypothetical "red" atack is only 30 minutes or so, so I bet the Taiwan Air force is not keen on having mainland aircraft messing around.

:rolleyes:

You are living in a different planet from reality. Flights between Taiwan and China do not detour through a 3rd airspace. All civilian flights between the 2 countries follow predefined air routes just like any other place.

Here is the flight path of CA196 (TPE-PVG) on June 4: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA196/history/20120604/0935Z/RCTP/ZSPD

Here is the flight path of CZ3097 (CAN-TPE) also on June 4: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CSN3097/history/20120604/0330Z/ZGGG/RCTP

:rolleyes:

You are living in a different planet from reality. Flights between Taiwan and China do not detour through a 3rd airspace. All civilian flights between the 2 countries follow predefined air routes just like any other place.

Here is the flight path of CA196 (TPE-PVG) on June 4: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA196/history/20120604/0935Z/RCTP/ZSPD

Here is the flight path of CZ3097 (CAN-TPE) also on June 4: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CSN3097/history/20120604/0330Z/ZGGG/RCTP

While you're right that cross-strait flights no longer need to go to a third authority's airspace (such as Hong Kong FIR or Japan's), FlightAware is absolutely no good in proving so. Flight plans not involving U.S., Canada, Australia and maybe British airspaces are not accessible by FlightAware. And real flight routes are not straight lines.

hmm I'm just curious, it costs money to FLY OVER Korea and Japan?

It costs money to fly over most countries. IIRC, Russia charges the most.