Air France Frequence Plus - New La Premiere seat in the newest A380

Hello folks,

A recent press release on corporate.airfrance.com (http://corporate.airfrance.com/fileadmin/dossiers/documents/press_releases/CP_A380_05.2012-en.pdf) (PDF) reveals minor changes into La Premiere seats in the newest A380.

Have a good night,
Olivier

Link no good

Link was fine for me.. I did not the colors of the "new first class" to bland for me

Link no good
Link is to the PDF press release.

There is also now "an enhanced, more user-friendly in-flight entertainment system" in all classes.
And Air Franc says "The A380’s spacious cabin enables Air France to offer a longer and
wider “full-sleep” seat." Is this true? Is the Affaires-Seat in the A380 really longer and wider than on the 777 or A330?

There is also now "an enhanced, more user-friendly in-flight entertainment system" in all classes.
And Air Franc says "The A380’s spacious cabin enables Air France to offer a longer and
wider “full-sleep” seat." Is this true? Is the Affaires-Seat in the A380 really longer and wider than on the 777 or A330?
I think they are just talking about the new version (NEV4) of the Affaires seat that is being deployed on new aircraft.

According to the press release. The seats are over 2 meters long and 61 cm wide. So over 78 inches long and over 24 inches wide. Also the seat controls are easier to use.

So what does "fully Sleep" really mean for the biz seat?

By the looks of it, the seat still looks like it is at an angel OR the woman in the photo has very wide hips and slender legs under the blanket.

This new seat has been praised by over 90% of Air France
customers who appreciate the quality of sleep it provides during
the flight, its horizontal position and the leg room.

So the rest 10% must be FT'ers ;)

The brochure is nice.
For the Première seat, the major difference is that they have raised the shell on the side of the seat. That offers some privacy. But the "wall" is still very low (compare to the "tiny" pax seated on the picture), so that everyone seated in the cabin can still watch the heads of the pax, a very annoying feature in my experience.

For the Affaires seat, they are now phasing in the so-called NEV4 seats found on other aircrafts. The "full-sleep" terminology is the one used for NEV4 on all aircrafts. The major advantage of that seat is that it is lighter, so cheaper for AF. Its advantages/disadvantages have been extensively discussed before. Yes, it is a bit longer than NEV3 but still angled at approximately the same angle (over 10°). A major disadvantage is the dramatic reduction in personal space as illustrated on the picture of page 5. The front shell encroaches significantly compared to NEV3 (which I prefer). Not only is the space reduced, but it is very difficult for the window pax to get to the aisle. Imagine that the petite lady on the picture is replaced by a tall and heavy man like me. The window pax has to climb over my bottom and belly.
The 90% appreciation figure has been used by AF a month after the launch.

The "full-sleep" terminology is the one used for NEV4 on all aircrafts.

Indeed, and we all know that 'full sleep' is about as meaningful an expression as piuiuyuwegfigtruykkuytkyugtf... :rolleyes: Typical PR rubbish with lexical value of 0.

PS: I'm also always amused by how all airlines choose to picture people sleeping on angled lie flats seats sleeping on their side. In case anyone had not realised it, it is of course because as hips are wider part of the body than legs, it gives a greater impression of horizontality on the face-hips part of the body which is what the eye is naturally looking at. By contrast, if you picture people sleeping on their back or front there is no such mid-body wider part to temper the seat angle and as a result, the angle appears far more crudely to the naked eye.

In case anyone had not realised it, it is of course because as hips are wider part of the body than legs, it gives a greater impression of horizontality on the face-hips part of the body which is what the eye is naturally looking at.

Isn't this purpose defeated in the picture on page 5, where the angle at which the legs lie is made obvious because we assume that the windows are horizontal? In this picture, I mostly see a woman lying flat until the hips and then having her legs hanging uncomfortably, as if the seats stopped and she was reaching for a footrest.

I have not flown F so can't comment on it first hand BUT doesn't airlines such as LH offer a seat AND a seperate bed next to the seat on some of their planes? Somehow AF F seems a bit, erh, behind if this is the best they can come up with!!!

On the colour scheme, I personally prefered the old cream colour than the cold non imaginative grey they have now, but that's just me...

I have not flown F so can't comment on it first hand BUT doesn't airlines such as LH offer a seat AND a seperate bed next to the seat on some of their planes? Somehow AF F seems a bit, erh, behind if this is the best they can come up with!!!

I'd call that a "sitting area" next to the seat/bed rather than a seat and a bed.

I'd call that a "sitting area" next to the seat/bed rather than a seat and a bed.

LH 747-400 has both seat and a bed. They used to have pair seats. The window seat has been transformed into a true bed while the aisle seat has been transformed into a very comfortable seat. A380 and 748 have a new suite.

I think they are just talking about the new version (NEV4) of the Affaires seat that is being deployed on new aircraft.

Does anyone have the tail # of the latest A380 (with the enhanced seating in J)? I'm flying JFKCDG this summer and thought I would begin tracking the aircraft in question.

In this picture, I mostly see a woman lying flat until the hips and then having her legs hanging uncomfortably, as if the seats stopped and she was reaching for a footrest.

Exactly - the PR people assume (in fairness, consistently with communication research) that in a photo, the human eye mostly focuses on the face and the further you move away from it the less you notice things. But as you say, if you look at her whole body it is only too obvious that with that position she must feel bloody uncomfortable. As you mention, if you sleep on your hip like that, your legs must be falling sideways, totally unsupported and that can't be great (indeed to me, it seems like a total lower back killer!)! I just hope for the model that the photographer didn't make her hold the pose too long! :) The sad truth about the AF J seat is that it is far, far, from horizontal, and as a result, regardless of people's pose in photos, if one uses the full length of the seat, that angle is bound to show somewhere.

Does anyone have the tail # of the latest A380 (with the enhanced seating in J)? I'm flying JFKCDG this summer and thought I would begin tracking the aircraft in question.
F-HPJH (http://data.flight24.com/airplanes/f-hpjh)

In the press release it also states that PV still gets Economy food, but wasn't this changed a few weeks ago?!

Am I the only one who thinks, that the „new“ Air France La Premiere Class still looks a little bit like the Singapore Business Class on the A380? But the Singapore Business Class Seat looks more private...

I have not flown F so can't comment on it first hand BUT doesn't airlines such as LH offer a seat AND a seperate bed next to the seat on some of their planes? Somehow AF F seems a bit, erh, behind if this is the best they can come up with!!!


First of all it needs to be said that this new F seat is simply a "refurbished" (not literally) version of the current F seat. The big F sensation that AF promises us will be revealed later.

Am I the only one who thinks, that the „new“ Air France La Premiere Class still looks a little bit like the Singapore Business Class on the A380? But the Singapore Business Class Seat looks more private...

I have experience with the AF F seat and SQ J seat: Incomparable. The F seat on AF is MUCH more spacious, has a very handy pretty big side-table and has an opposite seat where you could invite others when the seat is not in bed-position. The sleeping position of the F seat on AF is excellent including a very comfy mattress (The crew actually make your bed) The SQ J seat is actually amongst the harder J seats out there. Also, the SQ seat is too short for me in sleeping position. And also if you are not tall: you will have to stick your feet in a narrow box when in sleeping position whilst the AF F seat has real bed-like qualities. Privacy wise I'd say they are equal.

On a side note, whilst I think the J seat on SQ is good, I also think it is overrated. Yeah, concept wise it beats NEV4 and pretty much any J seat hands down (with the obvious high-impact marketing advantage of 1-2-1 config)...but....it definitely has shortcomings.

In the press release it also states that PV still gets Economy food, but wasn't this changed a few weeks ago?!

Normally from June 1st
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-france-frequence-plus/1345226-improvements-premium-voyageur-meals-june-1st.html

Which strikes me in F is that the personnal screen is small. It is smaller than in J, isn't it?

Which strikes me in F is that the personnal screen is small. It is smaller than in J, isn't it?

Yes, it's quite small. You're closer to the screen than to the J screen, but still...

BUT doesn't airlines such as LH offer a seat AND a seperate bed next to the seat on some of their planes?Not that I would wish to defend the AF product per se but "airlines such as LH" would suggest that it is fairly common in the industry whereas it is not. In reality, this is unique to LH, at any rate for now, and no other airline has, AFAIK, such a setup.

I have experience with the AF F seat and SQ J seat: Incomparable. The F seat on AF is MUCH more spacious, has a very handy pretty big side-table and has an opposite seat where you could invite others when the seat is not in bed-position. The sleeping position of the F seat on AF is excellent including a very comfy mattress (The crew actually make your bed) The SQ J seat is actually amongst the harder J seats out there. Also, the SQ seat is too short for me in sleeping position. And also if you are not tall: you will have to stick your feet in a narrow box when in sleeping position whilst the AF F seat has real bed-like qualities. Privacy wise I'd say they are equal.

I've flown in both and agree completely with your assessment. AF F is vastly better than SQ J in both seat and service.

The new AF Premiere seat reminds me very much of the seat I sat in on Qatar Airways on its B777-300ER - in Business! And although I haven't used AF Premiere in some time I would doubt that the catering is much better than on QR (which, alongside with the seats on the B777s and its premium lounges at the Doha hub, are the only reason why that airline merits a 5 star rating it is so proud about. All the rest is good, but not outstandingly better)

Not that I would wish to defend the AF product per se but "airlines such as LH" would suggest that it is fairly common in the industry whereas it is not. In reality, this is unique to LH, at any rate for now, and no other airline has, AFAIK, such a setup.

I agree that LH should not be taken as the benchmark. The reason why they have the bed+seat combo on the B744 is legacy, not the willingness to roll out a seat+bed across its First Class cabins. Historically, Lufthansa had its F class on the upper deck of the B744. 16 seats, 4 rows of 2-2. When upgrading its F class the airline decided to sell only 8 seats. Rather than take out the existing seats or move the F cabin to the main deck the airline decided to convert each seat pair into a seat+bed combo. But that is only on the B744. The new F class rolled out on the B748 is on the main deck and has more or less the same suite-like seat like on the A380 and the other Airbus widebodies.

You can give credit to LH to have come up with an innovative and customer-friendly solution for dealing with its legacy upper deck cabin. But you cannot give them credit for being an airline that makes separate seats and beds its new standard.

The new AF Premiere seat reminds me very much of the seat I sat in on Qatar Airways on its B777-300ER - in Business! And although I haven't used AF Premiere in some time I would doubt that the catering is much better than on QR (which, alongside with the seats on the B777s and its premium lounges at the Doha hub, are the only reason why that airline merits a 5 star rating it is so proud about. All the rest is good, but not outstandingly better)

I like QR business class on both long haul and medial haul. But sorry it's not quite as good as AF Premiere which I have done recently. For example, 2-3 staff for 4 passengers on the 777 can't be beat by any airline in business class. I found the catering to be better on AF if you appreciate fine French dining. But QR has nice Asian plates on ex-HKG flights. AF's Champagne is better I think.

And while I like QR in the air and the DOH lounge, it can't be a regular airline for me due to the horrible connection windows at DOH.

(...) And while I like QR in the air and the DOH lounge, it can't be a regular airline for me due to the horrible connection windows at DOH.

Where do you fly from?

Out of CDG, there are almost always 2 possible connections (at least to the Asian destinations I have flown to): short comfortable one and long one.

The lower fares quite often mean you have to take the long connection, but more so in Y than in C.

Where do you fly from?

Out of CDG, there are almost always 2 possible connections (at least to the Asian destinations I have flown to): short comfortable one and long one.

The lower fares quite often mean you have to take the long connection, but more so in Y than in C.

I haven't looked recently, but I know it looked pretty bad from CDG to HKG or SIN. Like you arrive in DOH at 2am and leave at 8am or something like that. Not for me.

I took QR HKG to NBO and the connection was so bad I decided to spend about 40 hours at a hotel in Doha to relax before continuing to NBO. I got a cheap business class fare and like I said the ride was great. But I can't always enjoy a weekend in Doha in between trips. This last time I just took the KQ non-stop from BKK to NBO. Not as nice as QR, but the seats are fully flat on KQ and that counts for a lot.

I haven't looked recently, but I know it looked pretty bad from CDG to HKG or SIN. Like you arrive in DOH at 2am and leave at 8am or something like that. Not for me.

I took QR HKG to NBO and the connection was so bad I decided to spend about 40 hours at a hotel in Doha to relax before continuing to NBO. I got a cheap business class fare and like I said the ride was great. But I can't always enjoy a weekend in Doha in between trips. This last time I just took the KQ non-stop from BKK to NBO. Not as nice as QR, but the seats are fully flat on KQ and that counts for a lot.

Connections to Africa can be bad. The few times I looked to JNB they were.

To Singapore though, I always found 2 hour connections (as well as to BKK, SIN, KUL or MNL). It all depends on the flight you take out of Paris (they have two flights a day) and the flights you choose ou=t of DOH.

Both CDG/DOH flight do not always allow a 2 hour onwards connections, but many do.

Sorry, I didn't want to hijack this thread and start discussing QR. My comment was destined to the new seat in Premiere which in fact is very similar to a seat another airline has in Business.

I like QR business class on both long haul and medial haul. But sorry it's not quite as good as AF Premiere which I have done recently. For example, 2-3 staff for 4 passengers on the 777 can't be beat by any airline in business class. I found the catering to be better on AF if you appreciate fine French dining. But QR has nice Asian plates on ex-HKG flights. AF's Champagne is better I think.

And while I like QR in the air and the DOH lounge, it can't be a regular airline for me due to the horrible connection windows at DOH.

Before April Fool, I used to fly AF P regularly. Basically quite a few paid J flights leading to a couple of F awards per year. With April Fool and the absurdity of F award, I mostly stopped flying paid J AF unless that was really more convenient. But that's beyond the point. AF might have changed their policy, but I never got more than one FA on the 772 (4 seats) and 1.5 (sometimes 2 if load very low in J/Y) on 77W (8 seats).

QR has good connections to HKG on both its flights (2 to 3 hours). But many aircrafts are not equipped with the flat bed in J (I think only the 777). I find the comparison between QR J and AF F somewhat irrelevant because the cost on QR is around €2,400 while AF F is over €10,000 (from HKG).

Before April Fool, I used to fly AF P regularly. Basically quite a few paid J flights leading to a couple of F awards per year. With April Fool and the absurdity of F award, I mostly stopped flying paid J AF unless that was really more convenient. But that's beyond the point. AF might have changed their policy, but I never got more than one FA on the 772 (4 seats) and 1.5 (sometimes 2 if load very low in J/Y) on 77W (8 seats).

Maybe they changed staffing because my CDG-ATL flight in P earlier this year had two people working our cabin plus the purser was helping from time to time. But you are right that the comparison is irrelevant.

Maybe they changed staffing because my CDG-ATL flight in P earlier this year had two people working our cabin plus the purser was helping from time to time. But you are right that the comparison is irrelevant.

Aso my experience is 2.5 in the 8 seat cabin and 1.5 in the 4 seat cabin. The 0.5 being the purser.

Aso my experience is 2.5 in the 8 seat cabin and 1.5 in the 4 seat cabin. The 0.5 being the purser.

Chatted with my wife and she tends to agree with you. So I'll say 1.3 in 772 and 2 in 77W. Again, is quite likely that they have improved their ratio since they made P more difficult to get (pricewise and awardwise). The number I refer to are the full-time devoted staff. Of course, they try to get a lot of different FAs showing up in the P cabin, even just for giving a refill and then back to their main cabin. That is common on all arilines.

F-HPJH (http://data.flight24.com/airplanes/f-hpjh)

In another thread, it was suggested F-HPJG has also been "refreshed", meaning 25% of the fleet. Does anyone have a schedule for the other six tails?

Does anyone actually pay for La Premiere full fare? I'm flying JFK to CDG later this month and expert flyer shows all 4 seats are sold. Even as an award ticket, would this really be worth it for a 7 hour flight?

Does anyone actually pay for La Premiere full fare? I'm flying JFK to CDG later this month and expert flyer shows all 4 seats are sold. Even as an award ticket, would this really be worth it for a 7 hour flight?

Lots of people fly F on that route. Most of them do it relatively cheaply on corporate contracts or French government prices. Some even have a special arrangement to always upgrade to F when buying J. And then there are the investment bankers. ;)

The NYC route is likely to be the heaviest in F traffic. On a typical day, there are only 17 F seats (and sometimes less) offered by the sum of ALL airlines. Except for a 77W and A388 AF flights, there are no F seats sold on DL, AA, UA, EC. So these seats are in high demand by those who can travel in F and have to fly NYC-CDG.
On the other hand NYC-LHR has over 150 F seats on offer by BA.

As Stimpy mentioned, corporations have somewhat discounted F fares. The legend is also that the State is not allowed to subsidze AF but does it indirectly by paying top fares for its employees. And do not try to fly F when UN is in session :)

Does anyone actually pay for La Premiere full fare? I'm flying JFK to CDG later this month and expert flyer shows all 4 seats are sold. Even as an award ticket, would this really be worth it for a 7 hour flight?

Don't know the fare, but I flew AF7 in F yesterday. There were a couple of guys who were greeted "see you next week" by the lounge dragon.
My assistant also told me that there were guys who flew every week, even 2 or 3 times a week. Even with a steep discount, that will be a lot of revenue for AF. Premiere was full yesterday and last week on AF6. Maybe AF should have F on one more of their JFK-flights?

Maybe AF should have F on one more of their JFK-flights?

There are F seats on other JFK flights. Although the type of aircraft change througout the year, as I recall the only planes out of JFK that don't have F are the 330/340s, as well as some of the 777-200s (I've seen it on some of these planes as well).

There are F seats on other JFK flights. Although the type of aircraft change througout the year, as I recall the only planes out of JFK that don't have F are the 330/340s, as well as some of the 777-200s (I've seen it on some of these planes as well).

AF is down to 4 flights to JFK and 0 to EWR.
AF12 is currently operated by 77W/772 (8 or 4 F seats) and AF6 by a A388 (9 F seats). The other two flights are by A330/340. All other airlines from JFK or EWR (AA, UA, DL, EC) do not have F class.
It is true that AF is planning to change in the new schedule (late October) with 3 772 (4 F each) and the A388. That would raise the daily offering to 21 F seats. So all 4 flights will have F. Will see if it happens.
In any case, my impression is that they are planning to remove F from many 77W currently with 8F. Any confirmation would be welcome.

KL flies to EWR, right?

KL flies to EWR, right?

This is a thread about La Première. KL does not offer F, right?

Surprising to see how few F seats there are between Paris and New York. 17 only? Wow. Even a really small city like Zurich has more F seats to New York (currently 24). And they sell very well.

Surprising to see how few F seats there are between Paris and New York. 17 only? Wow. Even a really small city like Zurich has more F seats to New York (currently 24). And they sell very well.

Indeed!
But AF believes that its P product is magnificent and sells it at an outrageous price. I know about corporate-contract fares, but they are also outrageous in P.
Furthermore, LX, LH, UA "sell" a lot of F seats to *A awards from/to ZRH and other destinations. I am not privy to the revenue they get per F seat award, but it is significant and help them fill their cabin. On the other hand, AF F award are not open to most other ST partners and the number of miles required for an award/upgrade is prohibitive in FB. So AF F cabins bookings are low.

I have a couple of other observations:
1) UA has taken over CO which was a strong airline between Paris and NY (UA did not fly that route). CO did not offer F, so UA is not offering F.

2) Other US airlines flying into CDG know that the competition in J from AF is poor. So they do not introduce their recent flat beds as opposed to other European destinations. But they will start once the retrofit is complete. EC is a good but marginal player.

3) CDG is probably the most expensive European origin in premium cabins (compared to LHR, FRA,..).

AF has some F offer from Germany right now, for example FRA SIN FRA for 4450 EUR including taxes. Ticket is fully flexible, stopovers in AMS/CDG allowed, 3 days minimum stay and perhaps 3 day advanced purchase (not sure).

AF has some F offer from Germany right now, for example FRA SIN FRA for 4450 EUR including taxes. Ticket is fully flexible, stopovers in AMS/CDG allowed, 3 days minimum stay and perhaps 3 day advanced purchase (not sure).

Wow! That's not bad. How long is the sale good for?

AF has some F offer from Germany right now, for example FRA SIN FRA for 4450 EUR including taxes. Ticket is fully flexible, stopovers in AMS/CDG allowed, 3 days minimum stay and perhaps 3 day advanced purchase (not sure).

Pretty good fare. But if it's in First, why route via Amsterdam?

Furthermore, LX, LH, UA "sell" a lot of F seats to *A awards from/to ZRH and other destinations. I am not privy to the revenue they get per F seat award, but it is significant and help them fill their cabin.

Apparently not: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/swiss-international-airlines/1273144-swiss-not-releasing-any-seats-f-miles.html

Also, from LX I do know that the only destinations which sees upgrades/awards filling the F cabin are YUL and BKK, and to a much lesser degree BOS. Even NBO-DAR actually sells for money! All the other destinations typically sell very well in F, which may have to do with the fact that LX' intercont network serves destinations that have a strong F clientele if served with a good product: NYC, California, Sao Paulo, Tel Aviv, India, Japan, China, UAE, Jo'burg. They do not offer First to more marginal destinations like LH which goes to Calgary, Busan, Asmara and the like where F is harder to sell.


2) Other US airlines flying into CDG know that the competition in J from AF is poor. So they do not introduce their recent flat beds as opposed to other European destinations. But they will start once the retrofit is complete.

Isn't DL using its B767-400 now which has the new J class seats?


3) CDG is probably the most expensive European origin in premium cabins (compared to LHR, FRA,..).

If we are talking nonstop flights I thought London was. Or maybe that was only for the USA routes, or the NYC routes. In any case London-New York was always way more expensive than others to NYC.

Wow! That's not bad. How long is the sale good for?

At least for most of July and the beginning of August, from what I have seen from TXL. No advanced purchase required. Nice :)

Hi San Gottardo,
1) Apparently LH/LX (like SQ) are getting reluctant to open awards to other *A FFPs, especially US ones who give away miles like crazy. The *A award chart is mostly uniform and that is a handicap. Could also be that US airlines are not willing to pay a hefty price for a LH/LX F award.In general, the F product on the LH group has become of higher quality (gone is the time of the 747s with F pair seats), so it is not surprising that we are in a process where it will become more difficult to get F seats, even for own FFP. I would not be surprised if the award level was raised.
That being said, LH/LX (especially LX) have always had the policy to complement their rev F with the revenue on F award. That is a wise decision that help cover fixed costs. But they have to balance it with keeping exclusivity. And I fully agree with you that there is strong rev demand for F LH/LX on many routes.

2) Yes, some US airlines are starting to introduce flat beds on some US-CDG routes.

3) Fares are highly "seasonal" exUK. Mostly affected by the situation in the finance industry. I have not checked lately (and with the Olympoics..), but I can assure you that in 2011, one could get excellent deals ex LHR on many airlines. I am mostly concerned about Asia, but fares in premium cabins exLHR could be had at a huge discount from exCDG. I am talking about nonstops and the fares with one-stop are even more attractive. Even BA premium cabin was cheaper exLHR than exCDG (despite the stop). JFK is the bread and butter of BA, and competition is limited by their JV with AA, so I assume that you are right.
But the most competitive is undoubtedly Germany. No need to detail here, but there are amazing deals in premium cabins.

Isn't DL using its B767-400 now which has the new J class seats?

For now from JFK. Rumor has it that it is being replaced for the winter with the A330, which does not yet have flat beds.

At least for most of July and the beginning of August, from what I have seen from TXL. No advanced purchase required. Nice :)

Since I and others pushed AF at the Do for better accessibility to La Premiere, I guess we now HAVE to purchase one of these tickets. :eek:

Pretty good fare. But if it's in First, why route via Amsterdam?
FRA-AMS-CDG in J and return: 7000 EQM more
BTW from ICN, F class is open also, to north or south america via CDG...
Platinum with one ticket ;)

FRA-AMS-CDG in J and return: 7000 EQM more
BTW from ICN, F class is open also, to north or south america via CDG...
Platinum with one ticket ;)

I don't see ICN deal -- can you clarify?

I don't see ICN deal -- can you clarify?
It's not a special deal: it's available on AF website, with a lower price than on GDS...

It's not a special deal: it's available on AF website, with a lower price than on GDS...

Sorry, I don't see anything special on af.com verses GDS. I'm getting a price of around $15k ai no matter where I look. Can you point to a specific itinerary and price?

Sorry, I don't see anything special on af.com verses GDS. I'm getting a price of around $15k ai no matter where I look. Can you point to a specific itinerary and price?

Can you precise what you got, on what website, exactly and on what destination?

Indeed, it was a decent deal, not great but comparable to other airlines in F to Europe. And reasonably attractive to America if you wish to stopover in Paris (did not mention whether a stopover was allowed).
Unfortunately, nothing from HKG.

Can you precise what you got, on what website, exactly and on what destination?

One among many permutations was from AF's web site:

8/13 to 8/21 (but tried many other dates) ICN-EZE $15,283.

One among many permutations was from AF's web site:

8/13 to 8/21 (but tried many other dates) ICN-EZE $15,283.

10992 USD and 75246EQM

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/280/capturedcran20120623232.png

Indeed, it was a decent deal, not great but comparable to other airlines in F to Europe. And reasonably attractive to America if you wish to stopover in Paris (did not mention whether a stopover was allowed).
Unfortunately, nothing from HKG.
Of course, you may stop as long and anywhere you want: it's a F class
AFAIK, F class is only available from ICN in Asia.

What are the chances of seeing the new seat on the YUL route in August?

And what is the best seat in La Premiere on the A380? 1A looks private, but near the stairs.

And what is the best seat in La Premiere on the A380? 1A looks private, but near the stairs.

I prefer 2L because 1A is confined with no space around, and very disturbed by attendants going to toilets, speaking with friends etc...
And if you are alone in the cabin, you may have dinner and lunch on the seat beside...

What are the chances of seeing the new seat on the YUL route in August?

And what is the best seat in La Premiere on the A380? 1A looks private, but near the stairs.

I found A1 quite private actually. Space is plenty, and the space around arguably feels larger than a suite.The curtains were densly closed througout the flight, and I had absolutely no disturbance from the stairs and bar-space. Also, I had the impression attendents did only pass through the curtain for service of the F cabin. Overall, there were less attendants marching through the cabin than I have experienced in F on a 777.
Note: if you sit on the other side in row 2 you're also near a curtain, this time with the toilet, the changing room and thereafter the bar-space and stairs near. But also there it should be ok I guess.
In case someone wants a very spacious loungy feel, row 3 would be perfect.

I found A1 quite private. The curtains were densly closed througout the flight, and I had absolutely no disturbance from the stairs and bar-space.

Thanks. I figure with ear plugs, eye shades and a healthy amount of Champagne I'll sleep fine.

Thanks. I figure with ear plugs, eye shades and a healthy amount of Champagne I'll sleep fine.

I had 02A the other week, and 01A looked very private. I think any window seat will be as private as the other, given AFs configuration and premiere seats.
Like ANAs first class, and more private than Swiss regular 1.st, less private than LH bed+seat and any kind of suite.