Southwest Rapid Rewards - Was pilot confused as to where the plane was?

Daughter was on flight to Denver from MSP a few weeks ago. I texted her to make sure her flight landed as she was taking a shuttle and meeting us. She texted back that the plane had run out of gas and landed in Colorado Springs. I of course thought she was joking... she said "no, that's what the pilot said". She was pretty confused as she looked at the GPS on her phone and it said she was in Denver.

Everyone on the plane was on their phones tellling people picking them up they would be delayed as they were in Colorado Springs. A few minutes later the pilot announced, no they actually were in Denver. What happened here?

Her return flight wasn't any better.... a person of size said next to her and put up the armrests, could barely get the seatbelt on after several tries, and pretty much had her squished against the window. She is young and not assertive but you would think they flight attendants would notice this. She never wants to fly Southwest again because of these two issues.

You don't really believe the title to your post, do you?

Both of her problems are something that could just as easily happen on any other airline.

As far as saying they landed in Colorado Springs to refuel when they were actually in Denver where the plane is to land makes no sense at all. I have been on flights before on the competition where the airport has been temporarily shut down for weather after we are in the air and had to circle around and then divert to refuel, but not sure why they would tell her they were refueling in another city when that wans't the case.

As far as the COS issue, I would have insisted on putting down the armrest. If your daughter was able to tell there was a COS sitting in that seat, unless it was the only seat available, she should have chosen another seat. If the COS sat down after her, she should have already had the arm rest down and insisted it stay down. As soon as I board the plane if the arm rest isn't down it goes down and stays down. If the COS had to have the armrest listed, ring the FA call button and let them deal with it.

You don't really believe the title to your post, do you?

Both of her problems are something that could just as easily happen on any other airline.

Why would he say he was in Colorado Springs if he knew he was in Denver? They were on the ground when the announcement was made. She said several passengers were pretty angry as they had to call back people that were picking them up. I thought it was pretty strange.

As far as COS, I realize this could happen on any airline. She could have said something but as I said she is young and not assertive. I do think much of the responsibility should be on the flight attendants, airline (especially since the seats are not big enough anyway) and the COS. She did sit down first, the flight was full and she and found herself in an awkward situation. No one likes to make a scene or hurt someone else's feelings.

Pilots make mistakes. If I recall correctly, there was a CO flight a few years ago, with Frank Lorenzo on board, which landed on the taxiway at the old Denver airport.

You don't really believe the title to your post, do you?

I don't either.

This is what I suspect happened, based on previous experience based on the diversion process from my end of things. The crew was in holding due to delays at DEN and aircraft ahead being unable to land (thunderstorms, microbursts, windshear, etc.), and after a time, the flight consumed all its allotted fuel for holding use (it never was totally "out of gas" per se), and it was thus time to divert. The captain and dispatcher coordinated on the diversion alternate (COS, already specified, but now confirmed) and the flight's dispatch release was amended to go there. As the crew was coordinating with ATC for their route clearance from the holding stack to COS, or maybe within a minute or two of that, ATC then came back with word that the flight could now proceed from the holding stack direct to DEN without delay. They headed for DEN, they landed, and without thinking about the dynamic divert/un-divert, it was "Welcome to COS" when it should have been "Welcome to DEN". While inbound to DEN from the holding stack, things get really busy in the cockpit and with ATC, and that's what they were undoubtedly concentrating on, and the "Welcome to COS" was little more than mis-speaking.. ;)

In my 30+ years of dispatching, I've had more than a few instances of last-minute "un-diverts" take place when either the weather or ATC situation suddenly improved. They don't happen all the time, but neither are they totally uncommon.

IMHO, it was just a joke from the pilot that some people took seriously.

WN pilots in my experience are much more likely to make comments such as this than other airlines...its a SWA culture thing. He was prob just having some fun thinking people would realize that it was a joke.

I myself think its pretty funny.

IMHO, it was just a joke from the pilot that some people took seriously.

WN pilots in my experience are much more likely to make comments such as this than other airlines...its a SWA culture thing. He was prob just having some fun thinking people would realize that it was a joke.

I myself think its pretty funny.

Oh, I know. It's beyond hilarious to tell people they've landed at the wrong airport because of a safety issue that never existed. And then monitor their expressions when you reveal that it was all made up. LMAO.

Authority figures should work in more cabaret.

IMHO, it was just a joke from the pilot that some people took seriously.

WN pilots in my experience are much more likely to make comments such as this than other airlines...its a SWA culture thing. He was prob just having some fun thinking people would realize that it was a joke.

I seriously doubt it, not when it's something that could cause Customers to start making phone calls in reaction thereto.

That's not to say levity is unheard of. I once was on a flight that made a last-minute go-around (due to an aircraft ahead being to slow to vacate the runway after landing), and several Customers had alarmed looks on their faces. The captain came on the PA and started off with "Ladies and Gentlemen, as you probably should have noticed, we didn't land because...and the reason." ;)

I don't think it was meant as a joke because of the time that elapsed between the announcement and when they were told they were actually in Denver. They had been circling for awhile before landing so the refueling made sense.

I don't either.

This is what I suspect happened, based on previous experience based on the diversion process from my end of things. The crew was in holding due to delays at DEN and aircraft ahead being unable to land (thunderstorms, microbursts, windshear, etc.), and after a time, the flight consumed all its allotted fuel for holding use (it never was totally "out of gas" per se), and it was thus time to divert. The captain and dispatcher coordinated on the diversion alternate (COS, already specified, but now confirmed) and the flight's dispatch release was amended to go there. As the crew was coordinating with ATC for their route clearance from the holding stack to COS, or maybe within a minute or two of that, ATC then came back with word that the flight could now proceed from the holding stack direct to DEN without delay. They headed for DEN, they landed, and without thinking about the dynamic divert/un-divert, it was "Welcome to COS" when it should have been "Welcome to DEN". While inbound to DEN from the holding stack, things get really busy in the cockpit and with ATC, and that's what they were undoubtedly concentrating on, and the "Welcome to COS" was little more than mis-speaking.. ;)

In my 30+ years of dispatching, I've had more than a few instances of last-minute "un-diverts" take place when either the weather or ATC situation suddenly improved. They don't happen all the time, but neither are they totally uncommon.

That makes sense.... thanks for the explanation!

This is what I suspect happened, based on previous experience based on the diversion process from my end of things. The crew was in holding due to delays at DEN and aircraft ahead being unable to land (thunderstorms, microbursts, windshear, etc.), and after a time, the flight consumed all its allotted fuel for holding use (it never was totally "out of gas" per se), and it was thus time to divert. The captain and dispatcher coordinated on the diversion alternate (COS, already specified, but now confirmed) and the flight's dispatch release was amended to go there. As the crew was coordinating with ATC for their route clearance from the holding stack to COS, or maybe within a minute or two of that, ATC then came back with word that the flight could now proceed from the holding stack direct to DEN without delay. They headed for DEN, they landed, and without thinking about the dynamic divert/un-divert, it was "Welcome to COS" when it should have been "Welcome to DEN". While inbound to DEN from the holding stack, things get really busy in the cockpit and with ATC, and that's what they were undoubtedly concentrating on, and the "Welcome to COS" was little more than mis-speaking.. ;)

In my 30+ years of dispatching, I've had more than a few instances of last-minute "un-diverts" take place when either the weather or ATC situation suddenly improved. They don't happen all the time, but neither are they totally uncommon.

Completely agree. A couple of years ago, I was returning to ORD from DUB and spring weather had closed ORD (lotsa thunder and lightning). We circled and circled and then the captain told us that because we were running low on fuel, it was time to divert to MSP. Everyone groaned loudly, knowing that connections were blown and we'd be lucky to get home that evening. All of a sudden, we vectored toward a runway at ORD and landed. The captain jokingly said "Welcome to MSP" and then explained that as soon as he mentioned the fuel diversion, he was cleared for landing. Everyone on board knew that we hadn't flown to MSP but had landed at ORD.

Why would he say he was in Colorado Springs if he knew he was in Denver? They were on the ground when the announcement was made. She said several passengers were pretty angry as they had to call back people that were picking them up. I thought it was pretty strange.

As far as COS, I realize this could happen on any airline. She could have said something but as I said she is young and not assertive. I do think much of the responsibility should be on the flight attendants, airline (especially since the seats are not big enough anyway) and the COS. She did sit down first, the flight was full and she and found herself in an awkward situation. No one likes to make a scene or hurt someone else's feelings.

My guess is that the flight attendant made the announcement and she thought it was the pilot - sometimes hard to tell. The pilots are busy at that point, and a 737 recently whacked a light pole at Denver, so they are going to be heads-up. So maybe the FA was prepared for a divert, it didn't happen and then during the last minute press to get on the ground in Denver, the FA's were not notified of the change in plans.

My daughter was taking her first UM flight from AUS where we had just moved to, back to PIT to visit friends. She loved the flight - she was maybe 8 at the time. When she got on the USAir nonstop to PIT, probably a 727 then, some jerk was in her coach seat, and refused to move - she could sit in the middle. The FA said honey I have a seat for you, and moved her to F. She had a great flight.

Digressing.... Come to think of it, USAir and Allegheny/Mohawk under Colodny always treated me and my family pretty well. Even tho those BAC-111's made some pretty strange noises.

My guess is that the flight attendant made the announcement and she thought it was the pilot - sometimes hard to tell. The pilots are busy at that point, and a 737 recently whacked a light pole at Denver, so they are going to be heads-up. So maybe the FA was prepared for a divert, it didn't happen and then during the last minute press to get on the ground in Denver, the FA's were not notified of the change in plans..

Also a plausible scenario..

Maybe the pilot didn't want everyone collecting the Rapid Reward bonus for flights to Denver? :p

The pilot probably wanted to visit Randy Petersen at the House of Miles in COS, but WN management said no as AA won this year's Freddie Award.

Can't comment on the "wrong city" issue, but as for the COS, I had a miserable flight about 18 months ago with the same scenario: couldn't put down the armrest, needed a seat belt extender, and he sat on my right thigh for the 90 min. flight. I had an angry red welt on my upper leg when I looked at it in the restroom. I DID quietly tell the FA before take-off and she literally poo-pooed me, telling me it was a "short flight"..............
The flight was completely full, so moving seats wasn't an option, but there was the option of removing a customer who HAD to sit on someone's leg....

I was royally pissed off and I took her name down so that when I contacted Customer Service, they'd know so that she could be reprimanded. I received a significant LUV voucher for my inconvenience and an assurance that the FA would be talked to directly.

I will NEVER, EVER endure that again. Encountering the same situation, I will either have the COS moved or they'll be arresting me. A few years back, a woman on a legacy airline was seated next to a COS for a long flight--as I recall, over 4 hrs. She lost circulation in her upper leg to the point where she needed to have surgery to have necrotic tissue removed. It's not a joke and it's not just mild discomfort.

Daughter was on flight to Denver from MSP a few weeks ago. I texted her to make sure her flight landed as she was taking a shuttle and meeting us. She texted back that the plane had run out of gas and landed in Colorado Springs. I of course thought she was joking... she said "no, that's what the pilot said". She was pretty confused as she looked at the GPS on her phone and it said she was in Denver.

Everyone on the plane was on their phones tellling people picking them up they would be delayed as they were in Colorado Springs. A few minutes later the pilot announced, no they actually were in Denver. What happened here?

Her return flight wasn't any better.... a person of size said next to her and put up the armrests, could barely get the seatbelt on after several tries, and pretty much had her squished against the window. She is young and not assertive but you would think they flight attendants would notice this. She never wants to fly Southwest again because of these two issues.

Then i suggest we walk the next time. ALL airlines have problems for different reasons on different flight.

Tell her good luck on finding a PERFECT airline.

Then i suggest we walk the next time. ALL airlines have problems for different reasons on different flight.

Tell her good luck on finding a PERFECT airline.

Little point in a FlyerTalk forum following that instructive.

All airline crews do not announce the wrong arrival city.

I know she won't find the perfect airline... I love Southwest and really talked it up to her and I was sorry that she did not have a good experience. I'm sure she'll give it another try after time passes.

Then i suggest we walk the next time. ALL airlines have problems for different reasons on different flight.

Tell her good luck on finding a PERFECT airline.

I'm with OPNLguy and kerflumexed.

Although, pilots do make mistakes you wouldn't think they would. Sometime over 10 years ago, a CO 737 en route to CRP accidentally landed at an old WWII Naval auxiliary airport 5 miles south of CRP. Pilots apparently were not paying attention to the ILS instrument while making a visual approach. Both runways were 31, I believe.

Pilots had to slam on the brakes (in addition to reverse thrust, of course) to stop: 5,000 foot runway. The PAX were bused to the airport and a different crew took the plane off the next day.

EDIT: I now remember part of the problem. Runway 31 has a localizer-only approach (no glide slope) and runway 13/31 approaches both use the same ILS frequency. This requires the tower to manually flip which localizer radio is broadcasting. During the CO approach, the CRP tower had failed to set up the runway configuration for a 31 approach, so instead, the ILS 13 approach setup was in operation. This, in effect, created a back-course localizer situation that the pilots didn't catch (because they didn't audibly confirm the morse code signal on the ILS frequency. Had they done so, they would have realized the the localizer wasn't set up for runway 31, but for runway 13).

Here a link to the NTSB report:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001208X07902&ntsbno=FTW97IA187&akey=1

I am a marginal COS. On almost every flight I see people that should also buy the second seat. I experienced almost the same thing the OP's daughter did and I promised myself it will never happen again. I prevent it by buying another seat because I can. If I was not a COS I would call the FA in a heartbeat and demand that either I get another seat or they find another seat for the COS. (Note the word is demand, not ask.) This is a battle I will fight and hill that deserves to be taken.

I understand the timidity of your daughter. I neither condemn nor criticize her actions. I am only suggesting that standing up for oneself in a situation in which one is being wronged is a sign of maturity, not of vindictiveness or meanness. It is the way people are made aware of their anti-social behavior and receive the appropriate result from it. It is sad that we often have to initiate the actions ourselves, but that is the way it often is.

Little point in a FlyerTalk forum following that instructive.

All airline crews do not announce the wrong arrival city.

Well then. Quite a few of them do land at the wrong airport.

Just do a google search by typing in "pilots land wrong airport"

There seem to be quite a few airlines for me to list the link.

Little point in a FlyerTalk forum following that instructive.

All airline crews do not announce the wrong arrival city.

Of course they don't. Are you saying that no other airline crews, such as a
AirTran, ever announce the wrong arrival city? Or were you trying make some other point?

Of course they don't. Are you saying that no other airline crews, such as a
AirTran, ever announce the wrong arrival city? Or were you trying make some other point?

No.

I'm saying that it's unusual to get an arrival city so wrong that "everyone on the plane was on their phones tellling people picking them up they would be delayed as they were in Colorado Springs" and that finally "a few minutes later the pilot announced, no, they actually were in Denver."

Daughter was on flight to Denver from MSP a few weeks ago. I texted her to make sure her flight landed as she was taking a shuttle and meeting us. She texted back that the plane had run out of gas and landed in Colorado Springs. I of course thought she was joking... she said "no, that's what the pilot said". She was pretty confused as she looked at the GPS on her phone and it said she was in Denver.

Everyone on the plane was on their phones tellling people picking them up they would be delayed as they were in Colorado Springs. A few minutes later the pilot announced, no they actually were in Denver. What happened here?

Her return flight wasn't any better.... a person of size said next to her and put up the armrests, could barely get the seatbelt on after several tries, and pretty much had her squished against the window. She is young and not assertive but you would think they flight attendants would notice this. She never wants to fly Southwest again because of these two issues.
Relatively simple actually...post the airline, flight number, date, and (scheduled) arrival & departure stations and somebody will likely help you out with a bit of research. A "few weeks ago" leads one to assume it wasn't much of an issue after all (especially when compared to "a few hours ago").

Thanks, OPNLguy, but I have definitely had pilots do the "mistaken" city thing repeatedly. One time I was flying from ATL-TYS (Knoxville), the pilot kept saying that we were headed to Chattanooga for most of the flight. Finally, I think one of the FA's called him and he corrected himself. The funniest part was that this particular airline didn't even fly to Chattanooga at the time!!!

Relatively simple actually...post the airline, flight number, date, and (scheduled) arrival & departure stations and somebody will likely help you out with a bit of research. A "few weeks ago" leads one to assume it wasn't much of an issue after all (especially when compared to "a few hours ago").

A flight number isn't liable to tell you why the crew announced the wrong city, since there wasn't a diversion.

And it's still an issue even if it took a few weeks to write it up. You inform people the plane may be getting low on fuel, they have an expectation the announcements that follow will be straightforward. "Welcome to COS" is unfortunate in a scenario like that.

Colorado Springs = COS = customer of size.

You couldn't make it up!!!

Perhaps someone's yanking your chains.

Colorado Springs = COS = customer of size.

You couldn't make it up!!!

Perhaps someone's yanking your chains.


Yeah, you're right. Thank goodness someone had their coffee this morning before reading this thread.

Most event where the crew ends up where they are not supposed to be have multiple cause elements.

NWA once landed a DC10 in Brussels instead of Frankfurt. NWA does not fly to Brussels. The captain was new crossing the pond, and the other pilots, first officer and flight engineer were also somewhat junior. ATC made a mistake (maybe at Amsterdam Eurcontrol) and mistakenly entered the wrong destination for this flight (I have not looked this up but apparently the two airports have similar identifiers.) So now ATC Europe is used to vectoring new pilots (Read third world) to the proper destination and they did a good job of "herding" these guys to Brussels. The captain knew they were at the wrong airport when they broke out of the weather on short final and the runway was the wrong color. He decided to land anyway. The rest of it became a cluster since NWA had to arrange for servicing, fueling, bringing in a new flight crew, etc. and then they had a mechanical on taxi-out. The interesting thing about this event is that except for the pilots, everyone else on the plane knew they were landing at the wrong airport since they were watching the "airshow" tv screens showing the flight's progress. The FA's reportedly assumed the crew decided to divert and not tell them. The captain had a personal interview with CEO Dasberg after which he immediately retired.

A friend once told me that when he was a young first officer at National, they landed at the wrong city in Southern Florida in a 727. They taxied up to the gate and the pax started going down the airstairs, when the station manager ran outside screaming - "You are not supposed to here until Thursday." Many of the airports in Florida started as military training bases, so the layouts of some are almost identical with runways pointing in the same direction, etc. The MCO designation for Orlando is for McCoy Air Force Base, for example.

And I remember a crew once lining up to land at FLL Executive instead of FLL. Small storms in the area contributed to the crew's confusion.

A friend once told me that when he was a young first officer at National, they landed at the wrong city in Southern Florida in a 727. They taxied up to the gate and the pax started going down the airstairs, when the station manager ran outside screaming - "You are not supposed to here until Thursday." Many of the airports in Florida started as military training bases, so the layouts of some are almost identical with runways pointing in the same direction, etc. The MCO designation for Orlando is for McCoy Air Force Base, for example.

And I remember a crew once lining up to land at FLL Executive instead of FLL. Small storms in the area contributed to the crew's confusion.

Many of the runways in south Florida are oriented east-west (09/27, 10/28) and my recollection is that most of the wrong airport landings involved night visual approaches where the intended destination airport was mis-identified with the aircraft landing at another one nearby. Opa Locka has also seen them, and I think TNT (the airline training and transition airport west of MIA) that has nothing but a runway, and little else.

Throwing another scenario out; I've landed at DIA on one of the distant runways before (on United) and had the flight attendant announce "Welcome to Colorado Springs...now we have to drive to Denver. Haha!" because it was nearly a 15 minute taxi to the gate. (It actually was very humorous and everyone around me laughed)

I've heard it in Atlanta too.

Perhaps that is what occurred here and the little girl didn't get the joke?

Wasn't there one a few years ago where a CO flight landed at some airport short of IAH? Not HOU...but some airport that nobody really flies to...

Wasn't there one a few years ago where a CO flight landed at some airport short of IAH? Not HOU...but some airport that nobody really flies to...

Maybe. There was one in 1998 which I wrote about in this thread that landed at the wrong airport in Corpus. That plane was coming from IAH.

Maybe. There was one in 1998 which I wrote about in this thread that landed at the wrong airport in Corpus. That plane was coming from IAH.

Ahhh...that one could be it...

Wasn't there one a few years ago where a CO flight landed at some airport short of IAH? Not HOU...but some airport that nobody really flies to...

Although the OP's original question (a mispoken airport name) was explained yet has managed to morph into discussion of actual landings at incorrect airports, those interested in the latter might find this link interesting:

http://www.thirdamendment.com/wrongway.html

The earliest incident (listed at the very bottom) was way back in 1935...

Enjoy!