Air France Frequence Plus - BA or AF?

Who has the best in flight product? Is it worth flying the A380 on AF vs a 744 or 777 on BA?

From reading: the lounges are better on BA; wine is better on AF F, better on BA J.

Have one down from the highest elite status on both DL and AA. AA miles seem to be much easier to redeem on AA for BA flights. How do you redeem DL miles on AF? Skypesos (DL) seems to want 4x the miles than AA just for DL metal.

Could also do paid Eco+ with paid/mileage upgrade to J or J with paid/mileage upgrade to F. Have enough miles for free F on either at the lowest award level. This does not seem to exist on DL.

Thoughts?

Looking at paid Eco+ with paid/mileage upgrade to J or J with paid/mileage upgrade to F.

Thoughts?For eco+ to J upgrade, clearly and indubitably BA, no contest: J product clearly superior to the AF one and upgrades are relatively low-cost in miles. The one significant downside with BA (but it can be a big one) might be issues of availability: if you can find ability to upgrade, then it is great. But it is not always straightforward to find availability, especially on routes to Asia (availability on North American routes is better).
Earn/burn on BA is also better, with 100% on all (BA or AA) eco fares and 200% on all (BA or AA) J fares (300% in first).
Intra-US redemptions on AA using BA miles are also relatively cheap, at least for direct flights.

I do not have enough experience of the F product on both airlines to discuss it meaningfully. I do note, though, that upgrades to F are rather expensive under FB and comparatively cheap under BAEC.

I find it hard to answer such a general question. I more or less agree with everything NickB says above, but you don't really tell us what you have in mind. Also, note that your question about redeeming SM miles for AF flights would be better answered on the DL forum.

In terms of in flight product strictly speaking:

- long haul J: I clearly prefer BA over AF especially if it involves any night flight. BA seat is just vastly better.

- long haul premium economy: AF clearly better than BA (although I don't really like either all that much)

- long haul Y: I would choose AF whenever it does not involve flying a 777. I find the food and drinks offered better on AF, I like the entertainment slightly better (mostly because it has more non-Hollywood films) especially on the A380 and the seats feel like they recline slightly more.

- short haul C: I clearly prefer BA. Better food (and hot food from much shorter flights), full bar, nuts, hot towels, etc. AF has a poor short haul C overall. (note that I prefer other airlines such as TK or OS to both)

- short haul Y: full fare better on AF if it gets you into Premium economy. Otherwise, a rather pathetic experience on both. AF has sandwiches or cold meals at lunch/dinner time from shorter flights than BA (with BA only from band 3B, which basically means 3 hours or so), more papers available, and more frequently stocks pillows/blankets. BA has full bar, flight maps (don't care if people think it's stupid, I like them!), and no risk of getting a NEO plane (watch out for A318s in particular) which do not recline! Take your pick depending on what you care about.

In short, I don't think that there is a one size fit all answer. As for F, I too have too little experience, although enough to say I wouldn't really pay what it costs on either airline (nor, for that matter, on AA). KE, SQ, QF or CX are an entirely different matter.

PS: I see from NickB's quote that you slightly rephrased your question. Apparently your earlier phrasing suggested focusing on buying eco plus and upgrading, in which case BA is a better choice clearly as Nick says. The latter version suggests this is only one option. In that case, might be worth considering that flying blue allows you to get award tickets with a 50% discount (in both Y and C) every two months through promo-awards. Those are much better value than any BA equivalent (typically BA promotions are only for Y or sometimes short haul C).

If doing a redemption, keep in mind that you'll pay fuel surcharges using AA or BA miles for BA flights, whereas using DL miles for AF flights you will only pay actual government taxes and airport fees. (Assuming your award ticket originates in the US, at least.) Please see the sticky on low-tier business awards in the DL forum for more information on how to redeem for AF flights. They can be had for 100K r/t in business, but you often have to take economy on DL domestic flights to make your way to the international gateway.

DL upgrades on AF metal can be had for 15K each way for TATL flights. There's a thread on using miles/SWUs to upgrade on AF/KL on the DL forum with more details.

I think BA, I recently flew with them and I was beyond impressed. I highly recommend them over AF.

In F: BA by default as you cannot get awards in AF F using DL. And AF F award (FB) are outrageously expensive. Even if you paid, AF has priced itself out of the market. BTW wines served in F are better on BA than AF.

In J: BA. AF product is mediocre compared to BA.

In PE: I dislike the AF seat with no recline.

Thanks for your answers. For TATL flights: BA wins out in J/F. Mixed BA or AF Y+. AF Y.

Any superior A380 TATL choices for F/J/Y+/Y other than AF? LH?

We will be using AA or DL miles if we went the award ticket route. Not enough UA miles for LH.

Checking on-line, ECO+ tickets run around double the ECO tickets. This seems like quite a premium. Would be nice to upgrade to J from ECO+ though. Can AA FF upgrade on BA from ECO+ to J with miles or paid only? Cost?

This would be a TATL flight, Asia we would fly CX or SQ. We're thinking about doing European delivery of a vehicle and would fly into MUC for pickup and then depart out of NCE, BCN or CDG back to the US.

The surcharges on BA/AA FF award stops me from pulling the trigger. $1,700+ in fees for two people. It pushes me to purchase an ECO or ECO+ ticket to earn some FF miles if the award ticket is going to cost so much. If we could earn FF miles on the award ticket with high fees, I would be doing that.

Thanks for your answers. For TATL flights: BA wins out in J/F. Mixed BA or AF Y+. AF Y.

Any superior A380 TATL choices for F/J/Y+/Y other than AF? LH?

We will be using AA or DL miles if we went the award ticket route. Not enough UA miles for LH.

Checking on-line, ECO+ tickets run around double the ECO tickets. This seems like quite a premium. Would be nice to upgrade to J from ECO+ though. Can AA FF upgrade on BA from ECO+ to J with miles or paid only? Cost?

This would be a TATL flight, Asia we would fly CX or SQ. We're thinking about doing European delivery of a vehicle and would fly into MUC for pickup and then depart out of NCE, BCN or CDG back to the US.

The surcharges on BA/AA FF award stops me from pulling the trigger. $1,700+ in fees for two people. It pushes me to purchase an ECO or ECO+ ticket to earn some FF miles if the award ticket is going to cost so much. If we could earn FF miles on the award ticket with high fees, I would be doing that.

Your questions regarding upgrading on AA miles should be asked to the AA forum.
I disagree with your summary judgment for Y.
As pointed out by Orbitmic, the sardine seating on AF 777 is atrocious (10 abreast, while 9 abreast on most airlines including BA). It makes a whale of a difference.

This would be a TATL flight, Asia we would fly CX or SQ. We're thinking about doing European delivery of a vehicle and would fly into MUC for pickup and then depart out of NCE, BCN or CDG back to the US.


May I ask why you are only interested in European airlines for the trip? It seems to me that based on your itineraries, you could fly DL into MUC and out from NCE or BCN, all direct to/from JFK. You list two home places - Texas and Hawaii, the nice thing with the DL solution is that from Hawaii and/or from anywhere in Texas except IAH or DFW (with AA/BA only as AF has no direct DFW-CDG) you get to fly with only two flights as opposed to three.

I don't know about MUC and BCN, but DL flies their latest 764 with fully flat beds in J on their JFK-NCE route and it makes for a very pleasant flight. In J, their seat is at least as pleasant as BA and more than AF, their food is a bit better than AF's and much better than BA's and you will get greater availability with SMs.

If in J, and despite it making little sense with your itinerary, I would also consider AZ who probably have the best seat and service in J on transatlantic nowadays if you fly their refurbished birds (most 330s and some 772s). In my view, AZ Magnifica is now significantly better than both BA Club World and AF Affaires even though their lounges lag behind. I also like TK very much, and OS although OS has outstanding service but seats which are not fully flat so nice for the Westbound and not so nice for the Eastbound.

If flying Y, I would settle for AF on the A380 if only for the thrill of trying the new bird if you haven't done so yet. In my view it is quite a bit nicer than BA Y which has kept getting worse over time (as mentioned by brunos, I wouldn't say the same on AF's 777 as I object to the seating arrangement). If you would be entitled to economy comfort, however, DL could again be a decent alternative.

I really dislike WT+ on BA (even the new version on the 77W) and basically only consider paying extra for it when it is in order to upgrade to J with confirmed availability. I don't like it on AF either but it does feel more special and less of a joke seat-wise. However, I would restate that I would personally not consider paying the premium in question for either. The only premium economy class that could justify the effort on transatlantic would be TK, which is in any case a much better airline than both BA and AF.

Because US airlines don't have a great product. I've only flown to Asia, not Europe so I was thinking that a foreign carrier would have a superior product to a US airline.

From reading up, it seems that European carriers have the same issues as US carriers. Must be a cultural thing.

Don't think I would like to depart out of JFK unless on a day flight in Y. If it's a night flight then J/F from HNL/LAX/PHX/DFW/IAH to maximize sleep time before landing.

Looked into DL FF seats but I can never find their lowest award levels, it's typically the Medium or High cost.

I can't believe that AF can mess up an A380, that's too bad. I guess I was looking for an SQ or CX experience.

Don't know anything about AZ or TK, I'll go check them out.