Singapore Airlines KrisFlyer - T2, T3 and now T1?

"Flights may arrive at either Terminal 2 or Terminal 3. Click here to find out the status of your flight. Information on the arrival terminal will be available two hours before the flight’s estimated time of arrival." So says the SQ website, but SQ37 (the non-stop from LAX) arrived at gate D41 yesterday - which is in T1.

Passengers with checked-in luggage had to schlep to T2 to collect their bags and clear customs.

So says the SQ website, but SQ37 (the non-stop from LAX) arrived at gate D41 yesterday - which is in T1.

Passengers with checked-in luggage had to schlep to T2 to collect their bags and clear customs.

Surprising, but what's the big deal? Land at the outlying gates in T2 or T3, and it's a similar distance. Take B10, where it can be quicker to get the skytrain to T3 from T1 or, if no luggage pass through immigration at T1. In fact D41 probably involves less "schlepping' than some of the outlying E/F gates - as at least there's the skytrain that gets you close to T2 immigration.

Whats the problem? After sitting in the plane for that long a nice opportunity to strech your legs.

The problem is confusion.

Last time I landed at T1 on SQ, Ground staff was directing passengers towards T2.
On the arrival screen it will be shown as T2-Arrival.

SQ doing the Terminal shuffle is not for its and Changi airports' reputation of being a world class airport.

Departing passengers know where they go. Arriving passengers don't as SQ feels that they need not need know as long as the people coming to pick them up find out for themselves where they should meet them.

But its honestly confusing... sometimes, people forget ... I've had many a times wondering around the arrivals hall and my friend has gone to the other terminal. Why can't SQ just say that all flights coming in from HKG land at T3. And if the aircraft is being positioned at say T2, then BUS everyone back to T3 for immigration/customs processing. That's what the major airports do eg AMS, FRA, even BKK!

Or doesn't Changi have passenger buses anymore?

Last time I landed at T1 on SQ, Ground staff was directing passengers towards T2.
On the arrival screen it will be shown as T2-Arrival.

That's what happened this time too. Confusing for passengers, and irritating for those meeting passengers.

How difficult is it to decide that flights to/from XXX will always leave/arrive at a given terminal as with most other airlines?

Or is this a Changi airport problem?

That's what happened this time too. Confusing for passengers, and irritating for those meeting passengers.

How difficult is it to decide that flights to/from XXX will always leave/arrive at a given terminal as with most other airlines?...

Passengers with flights landing at T1 are directed to T2 for immigration, luggage and customs. Those meeting passengers should still meet them at T2. Nothing confusing to me.;) D41 can be closer than gates at the end of the figures at T2.

The issue is aircraft rotation. Terminals/gates are assigned based on what destination the aircraft is headed next, not arriving from. Many aircraft rotate from longhaul to shorthaul services frequently. The A345 in your case might be headed to maintenance and doesn't need a gate in T2/T3. Perhaps I am just used to it, DL uses T2/T3/T4 at JFK and I never know for sure which terminal I will arrive at or depart from.


...Why can't SQ just say that all flights coming in from HKG land at T3. And if the aircraft is being positioned at say T2, then BUS everyone back to T3 for immigration/customs processing...

I hate buses.:p

I hate buses.:p
+1. I'd rather land at T1 gate and walk to T2 than take the bus (unless SQ picks me up in Porsche LH style :D)

The issue is aircraft rotation.

Is that my problem?

Never mind buses, why don't they just tow the aircraft to the next gate, or does Changi not have tow trucks either?

Or, even better, why don't all SQ flights just use the same terminal? Connecting at SIN is such a hassle - arriving at an outlying A gate and departing from an outlying E gate... There may be Skytrains, but schlepping through the shopping mall that is T3 - even the schlep from the lounge to the far B gates is a complete pain. I'd go as far as to say it's worse than BKK...

Really.... connecting at Changi is like the easiest thing on earth... travellators all over the place for the lazies, sky trains connecting all the terminals, clean, airy, lots of things to do if you're not in a hurry...

Anyway, it might be indeed confusing for some people and it's understandable. not everyone flies once a month or is "airport savvy". Imagine someone who's flying for the first time and asked him relative of friend to pick him up at terminal X and ends up in Y. But then again, that relative or friend should be smart enough to look at the screens as soon as he or she gets to the arrival hall and then easily take the sky train to the other terminal.

For luggage, it's quite alright as long as there is ground staff pointing you at the right direction to collect them. I don't personally care where I land... follow the screens and go collect your stuff. ;)

...Never mind buses, why don't they just tow the aircraft to the next gate, or does Changi not have tow trucks either?

Or, even better, why don't all SQ flights just use the same terminal? Connecting at SIN is such a hassle.....

You should try to connect through LAX, JFK, ATL, LHR or CDG more.;) Changi is the one of the best airports in the world for connections.:)

Towing aircraft is a very slow process. No airlines will do that unless absolutely necessary. It will increase aircraft turnaround time by 1+ hours. The increased traffic on taxiways will also impact other aircraft and slow down airport operations overall.

If there is a last minute aircraft swap, it is usually announced as gate change as it is faster to move passengers than aircraft. I am sure SQ would love to use just one terminal if Changi has a terminal large enough for all SQ flights.;)

You should try to connect through LAX, JFK, ATL, LHR or CDG more.;)

Oh they're not confusing just time consuming ;)

Seriously though I do agree with you. Changi is very easy to do a transfer as it is one step, you simply find your outbound flight gate, as arrivals and departures are not separated. At many airports it is a two step process, you need to find transit point and then the gate, so some backtracking may be inevitable. (a corollary of this is gate based security, which I prefer as well, but that is a completely separate discussion).

As for people doing the meet and greet, how hard is it in 2012 to either a) use the internet, mobile phone or other device to check arrival terminal OR b) checking the monitors on arrival at the airport - either airside or landside OR c) ask someone at the airport?

+1. I'd rather land at T1 gate and walk to T2 than take the bus (unless SQ picks me up in Porsche LH style :D)
I agree. I hate buses and try to avoid them.

SQ doing the Terminal shuffle is not for its and Changi airports' reputation of being a world class airport.

Departing passengers know where they go. Arriving passengers don't as SQ feels that they need not need know as long as the people coming to pick them up find out for themselves where they should meet them.

But its honestly confusing... sometimes, people forget ... I've had many a times wondering around the arrivals hall and my friend has gone to the other terminal. Why can't SQ just say that all flights coming in from HKG land at T3. And if the aircraft is being positioned at say T2, then BUS everyone back to T3 for immigration/customs processing. That's what the major airports do eg AMS, FRA, even BKK!

Or doesn't Changi have passenger buses anymore?

but isn't this more troublesome?

I think SQ just tell CIAS that they want to be in one terminal. Period.

That's what happened this time too. Confusing for passengers, and irritating for those meeting passengers.

How difficult is it to decide that flights to/from XXX will always leave/arrive at a given terminal as with most other airlines?

Or is this a Changi airport problem?

not so sure what so confusing? Does it really if you arrive at gate D41 or F60?

I do believe in gate D41, there will be ground staff who is direct you toward T2. I think D41 will be definitely shorter walk to T2 immigration compare if you arrive in any E or F gate.

The flight will be marked arrived in T2 and you should officially get out from T2

That's what happened this time too. Confusing for passengers, and irritating for those meeting passengers.

How difficult is it to decide that flights to/from XXX will always leave/arrive at a given terminal as with most other airlines?

Or is this a Changi airport problem?

No offense, IMHO there wasn't any confusion should occur.

1) did the ground staff waited for disembarkation door? do believe they give a CLEAR direction where to go.

2) providing flights number could be easiest. if i remember correctly there are more than 20-30 display screen across the 3 terminal for arrival flight information.

3) Maybe you dont have any check in luggage that's why you no need to go Terminal 2 that's could be a reason why you head to terminal 1 where you missed the person who you are to meet.

as long as you are not arrive at at F60 you should consider yourself lucky (AS NON-CIP).

Or, even better, why don't all SQ flights just use the same terminal? Connecting at SIN is such a hassle - arriving at an outlying A gate and departing from an outlying E gate... There may be Skytrains, but schlepping through the shopping mall that is T3 - even the schlep from the lounge to the far B gates is a complete pain. I'd go as far as to say it's worse than BKK...

I guess you never make connecting flight in any US airport. Try ORD or DFW which AA used multiple terminal (well at least in 90s). In DFW you need to take a train which go round, Changi train is nothing comparable to it.

I think SQ just tell CIAS that they want to be in one terminal. Period.
Once when I was in Singapore there was some discussion of the new T3 and I understood that it was some sort of government policy that SQ was not allowed to take over all of the nice new terminal. I think there was a sense that it wouldn't look good to use public money in a way that seemed to favor SQ or even for the benefit of SQ rather than the general public citizens/taxpayers.

I guess you never make connecting flight in any US airport. Try ORD or DFW which AA used multiple terminal (well at least in 90s). In DFW you need to take a train which go round, Changi train is nothing comparable to it.

You should try to connect through LAX, JFK, ATL, LHR or CDG more.;) Changi is the one of the best airports in the world for connections.:)

How is it relevant to compare SIN with US and EU airports? The reality is that, now SQ is spread over multiple terminals, it is far easier to connect in KUL, BKK, HKG, ICN or even DXB than SIN. Bus transfers are fine, provided there is a separate bus for F/C, as EK does (and SQ can't seem to manage - I remember one memorably good CDG-SIN flight a few years ago in F was ruined by being crushed on the bus from a remote stand as it waited to be filled by Y pax...)

At SIN, if your gate allocation is unlucky, it can be a 30 minute walk or longer - hardly optimal on a 45 minute connection. And there is no way of getting from the A gates/lounges to the B gates at Changi without the 15 minute obstacle course through the T3 shopping mall - no travellators or Skytrain to help you here (why not?)

I am sure SQ would love to use just one terminal if Changi has a terminal large enough for all SQ flights.;)

If 90% of BA can fit into LHR T5, then SQ can fit in any terminal at SIN

....At SIN, if your gate allocation is unlucky, it can be a 30 minute walk or longer - hardly optimal on a 45 minute connection....

:confused: I must have been very lucky or walk very fast.:p It have never taken me more than 15 minutes from gate to gate even from like F60 to T3.

BTW, how did you book a 45 minutes connection at Changi? :confused: MCT is either 50 minutes or an hour, depending your flight numbers.

:confused: I must have very lucky or walk very fast.:p It have never taken me more than 15 minutes from gate to gate even from like F60 to T3.

End of A to end of E. Looks like 30 minutes to me (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cZZAWaOO54Q/TVUd9xy3naI/AAAAAAAAAEo/xwkDiITgpe8/s1600/map+of+airport_terminal_1_2_3.png) (plus waiting and travelling time on the Skytrain)

No offense, IMHO there wasn't any confusion should occur.

1) did the ground staff waited for disembarkation door? do believe they give a CLEAR direction where to go.

2) providing flights number could be easiest. if i remember correctly there are more than 20-30 display screen across the 3 terminal for arrival flight information.

3) Maybe you dont have any check in luggage that's why you no need to go Terminal 2 that's could be a reason why you head to terminal 1 where you missed the person who you are to meet.

as long as you are not arrive at at F60 you should consider yourself lucky (AS NON-CIP).

Yes, there were ground staff waiting at the door to direct everyone to T2. But quite a lot of passengers hesitated - after all right ahead of them was the way out to immigration and customs. So the natural thought is "why are we being asked to go somewhere else".

You can keep saying "it's really very simple" but it doesn't alter the fact that the need to have ground staff giving directions to disembarking passengers is making work where none should be needed.

End of A to end of E. Looks like 30 minutes to me (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cZZAWaOO54Q/TVUd9xy3naI/AAAAAAAAAEo/xwkDiITgpe8/s1600/map+of+airport_terminal_1_2_3.png) (plus waiting and travelling time on the Skytrain)

I think these are maximum or slow pace walking times, and probably allow for the time it takes if people just stand on the travellators. If you walk on the travellators and are able, and fit it should take half the suggested walking time, even with a trolley or wheeled luggage. 9minutes to do about 350m is very conservative.

And I'm sure, for the vast majority it wouldn't take 15 mins to get from the SK lounge in T2 (ie the E sign on the map ) to F37. I'd say most could do it in 10, some in less (5 if flight is closing!).

And as for buses, really? I absolutely loath getting off a plane and onto a crammed bus with poor-to no aircon. It may work OK for those wanting to get from F60 to B10, but what about the passengers who need to get to F59? They would have to catch a bus to some central point, find there way up some stairs and make their way back to F59. Can't please all the people all of the time.

Also, for comparison once I was 25 mins late in HKG leaving only 35 mins to connect and upon deplaning I was handed a BP a later flight, not my original one. And this was needed, as it took 15mins to pass through security at the transfer point, and still involved lots of walking. Same situation also happened in SIN and made my original flight no problems. I think everyone is overlooking the time consuming central transfer point add both waiting and walking time. (although perhaps in HKG, it would have been quicker to take a longer walk to one of the more outlying transfer points).

At SIN, if your gate allocation is unlucky, it can be a 30 minute walk or longer - hardly optimal on a 45 minute connection. And there is no way of getting from the A gates/lounges to the B gates at Changi without the 15 minute obstacle course through the T3 shopping mall - no travellators or Skytrain to help you here (why not?)


So what is your point? Is the issue that SQ operate in 2 terminals or the distance between gate is too far?

If you complaining that the connecting in SIN because SQ operated in 2 terminal, I can tell you that, if you are unlucky, even within T2 you can end up walking at least 10-15 min, if you say arrive at gate F60 and connecting to E8 or E28. It happened to me once, supposed to schedule to depart from F60 and last minute SQ decided to swap aircraft and the new aircraft was at gate E6!

I occasionally depart from the very far end of gate A in T3, which is like A16-18. I walk few time, I think it is like 15 min walk and there is travelator. There is also train to bring you there.


If this is too much hassle for you try to connect in HKG. I once arrive on gate 60-ish and depart from gate 3 or 4! And what I did not know in HKG the train is only go in one direction. In arrival from bigger number gate to lower number gate (toward immigration) and in departure level from small number to bigger number (away from immigration). If you miss this, try to walk from one end to another end! I did walk from the Wing lounge (which is just behind immigration) near gate 1-4 to catch a flight at gate 60ish. It like 20ish min walk and I walked very fast as I always missed my flight and I run out of breath when I sat down in the plane!

Yes, there were ground staff waiting at the door to direct everyone to T2. But quite a lot of passengers hesitated - after all right ahead of them was the way out to immigration and customs. So the natural thought is "why are we being asked to go somewhere else".

You can keep saying "it's really very simple" but it doesn't alter the fact that the need to have ground staff giving directions to disembarking passengers is making work where none should be needed.

Well if you simply follow the direction, then you should be ok.... But many people simply do not like to follow the direction!

Even in "normal" arrival, there will still be some ground staff to tell you the direction to arrival area

If this is too much hassle for you try to connect in HKG. I once arrive on gate 60-ish and depart from gate 3 or 4! And what I did not know in HKG the train is only go in one direction. In arrival from bigger number gate to lower number gate (toward immigration) and in departure level from small number to bigger number (away from immigration). If you miss this, try to walk from one end to another end! I did walk from the Wing lounge (which is just behind immigration) near gate 1-4 to catch a flight at gate 60ish. It like 20ish min walk and I walked very fast as I always missed my flight and I run out of breath when I sat down in the plane!

I agree with you with HKG. I had similar experiences when I do US-HKG-MNL flights. At least it's exercise :p

If you complaining that the connecting in SIN because SQ operated in 2 terminal, I can tell you that, if you are unlucky, even within T2 you can end up walking at least 10-15 min

10-15 mins is still less than 30 mins+ ;)

I absolutely loath getting off a plane and onto a crammed bus with poor-to no aircon.
...
Also, for comparison once I was 25 mins late in HKG leaving only 35 mins to connect and upon deplaning I was handed a BP a later flight, not my original one
...
Same situation also happened in SIN and made my original flight no problems.

DOH, DXB and FRA have no problem laying on private air-conditioned buses, limos, Porsches, for their premium passengers - no cramming (unlike when I got off a long haul SQ F flight at a remote gate and the bus waited to be filled with Y pax before leaving...)

Last year, when I was 35 mins late on a 60 hour transit (in C class), SQ provided a buggy to take me from the B gate to the B Skytrain, presuming that I could then make my own way from there to the F gate for my connection. I was also told that my luggage would not make my flight. I refused, and requested a BP for a later flight... (Hmmm, let me think... 2 hours in the SKL, or 2 hours waiting by the carousel at KUL)

Hey, look, I'm not saying that SIN is not a perfectly adequate airport, I am just making the point that there are some other more pleasant airports to make connections in, and it would be far more convenient if SQ was in one terminal (and the *G lounges had a toilet and shower in them...)

Let's face it, SQ - nice in the air, rubbish on the ground...

Let's face it, SQ - nice in the air, rubbish on the ground...

I think that sums it up accurately for the apologists who think that all this T2/T3/T1 "work around" is perfectly fine and acceptable practice for a 1st rate airline.

I think that sums it up accurately for the apologists who think that all this T2/T3/T1 "work around" is perfectly fine and acceptable practice for a 1st rate airline.

No offense, stay away from SQ. so that you won't be encounter this kind of inconvenience caused by SQ.

TG can be your alternative where they will ALWAYS 100% drop you at Terminal 1 and they got buses service.

Just take note of the transit in bangkok if you are lucky you arrive at gate A2a and connecting your flight at gate E2a to take the bus to send you to gate B3 and make you climb the stair is that what we want here?

Sorry that's my experience with Bus Transfer service as I can afford Y class so there will be no limo for me. Hope SATs shall never come across with this idea at all.

No offense, stay away from SQ. so that you won't be encounter this kind of inconvenience caused by SQ.


I generally try to, as I find them excellent in the air but utterly spastic on the ground. That's why my SQ status is just silver.

I think that sums it up accurately for the apologists who think that all this T2/T3/T1 "work around" is perfectly fine and acceptable practice for a 1st rate airline.

I am not a big fan of SQ, but I think they are acceptable!

If you said SQ ground service is bad, please tell us who you think is good?

I think that sums it up accurately for the apologists who think that all this T2/T3/T1 "work around" is perfectly fine and acceptable practice for a 1st rate airline.

T1 seems exceptional circumstances, like TG parking and loading passengers onto a bus :p. or not, as that happens a lot of the time with TG.

Not apologising for SQ, bu I do think for the the vast majority of passengers who have nearby gate connections OR are actually terminating their journey at SIN, consolidating in one terminal could have a negative affect, increasing congestion at terminal (waiting for gate space), wait times, queues for taxis etc. Even if they were consolidated in one terminal the time taken to get from A21 to B8 is likely to be just as long as getting to many of the E and F gates. Also many people have SQ>MI transfers or vice versa so they would be disrupted as I am sure T3 wouldn't have capacity for both carriers at peak times.

At the end of the day compromises are inevitable. I mean I loved transiting Zagreb on Croatian, international to international it was about 30 steps. But the scale of the operation was just a tad smaller.

If BA can clearly delineate which flights to/from where arrive at which defined terminal at LHR, SQ can do it at SIN.

Yes, there were ground staff waiting at the door to direct everyone to T2. But quite a lot of passengers hesitated - after all right ahead of them was the way out to immigration and customs. So the natural thought is "why are we being asked to go somewhere else".

They are hesitating because a lot passengers are unfamiliar with the airport in general. Has nothing to do with SQ. Its that kind of hesitation no matter if you land at T2 or T3 or FRA or NYC. People naturally stop and hesitate as soon as they get out of the aerobridge to find their way. Its a bit unfair to blame SQ for that.
SQ has always personnel for T1 arrivals to guide people, but you cant expect SQ to have a guide for each passengers. Passengers are still adults which should be able to follow a sign if they are told where to go.

SQ has to many flights to concentrate on one terminal, but to small to occupy two terminals entirely. So other airlines will share that Terminals. SQ has allocated the Terminals as per destinations you fly (at least for the departures they mostly following that rule). Arrivals can be either T2 or T3 (and sometimes T1) depending on aircraft utilisation (Example Flights to India are departing at T2, Arrival can be either or).

Three terminals in SIN are actually under one roof. What SQ needs to do is to request SATS to rename the whole structure to T1, with A-F piers, and Budget Terminal as T2.:p Then, all SQ flights will operate from T1.;)

That's how it works in places like ORD. UA uses ORD T1 which has concourses B and C, linked by underground tunnel. It can easily take you 20 minutes to walk from B1 to C1 in the same terminal.:p During busy periods, UA also uses concourse F in T2. You need to take shuttle bus (airside) or tram (landside).

Three terminals in SIN are actually under one roof. What SQ needs to do is to request SATS to rename the whole structure to T1, with A-F piers, and Budget Terminal as T2.:p Then, all SQ flights will operate from T1.;)

That's how it works in places like ORD. UA uses ORD T1 which has concourses B and C, linked by underground tunnel. It can easily take you 20 minutes to walk from B1 to C1 in the same terminal.:p During busy periods, UA also uses concourse F in T2. You need to take shuttle bus (airside) or tram (landside).

Abit OT but many people are still confused with the companies operating at SIN.

SATS = Ground Handler
CIAS (now dnata) = Ground Handler
CAG (Changi Airport Group) = Company that operates Changi Airport
CAAS = Government Statutory Board in charge of regulatory affairs

So don't blame the wrong companies! Haha!

Abit OT but many people are still confused with the companies operating at SIN.

SATS = Ground Handler
CIAS (now dnata) = Ground Handler
CAG (Changi Airport Group) = Company that operates Changi Airport
CAAS = Government Statutory Board in charge of regulatory affairs

So don't blame the wrong companies! Haha!

And that seems to be half the problem. I accept that there is no perfect way of cramming a lot of flights into an airport structure, but I am amazed at the lack of interaction that seems to exist between SQ and the airport, in its various guises, when it comes to planning the airport during the construction phase.

I know that Changi want to maintain something approaching a level playing field for all the airlines, but at most airports with a strong home carrier that carrier will get some influence due to the amount of business they bring to the airport. When this works (see MUC T2 for example) it can be really good.

The distances at SIN can be pretty big, with T2 being a particular offender because there is no obvious sky train or similar option to get you to/from the gate. I arrived on an MI flight to F59 and the walk involved rivalled anything I have experiences at HKG, for example.

I am not a big fan of SQ, but I think they are acceptable!

If you said SQ ground service is bad, please tell us who you think is good?

Both BA and Cathay Pacific have saved my bacon on various occasions when things have gone belly up on my travels - which is when I think ground service is critical. I have more experience with CX, and whenever I describe what they have done to my "SQ PPS for >10 years continuously" colleagues, they acknowledge that SQ will never do that sort of thing for them. And I'm not even DM+ on CX. By contrast, SQ does not seem to be able to handle even simple exceptions well. It always goes to a supervisor, then maybe another one, but none of them achieves what the frontline does with CX.

My experience to date has therefore been "serious problems are handled well even at outports" with CX, and "simple hiccups are made worse by inept handling" with SQ. I have 3 instances of each of these which are memorable to me, so this is not just one bad experience.

The SQ product in the air is better in Y, regional J and long haul J. But the gap in the air between these 2 airlines is peanuts compared to the chasm on the ground. One OP on this forum has commented that the SQ flight crews earn all the goodwill, and the ground throws it all away, and that's certainly been my experience.

If BA can clearly delineate which flights to/from where arrive at which defined terminal at LHR, SQ can do it at SIN.

+1^