Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate - Almost-verbatim experience a friend posted

At SEA-TAC yesterday - domestic flight - using Greencard as ID

OFFICER: This the only form of ID you have?
ME: Yes, sir.
O: No license or state ID?
ME: No. Not right now. That's what I've been using all year.
O: This is not your name. This has an extra, un-hyphenated last name which is not on your boarding pass. So it's not your name.
ME: That's my name. I've never had any problems using this ID.
O: You see, in AMERICA we have one last name... ... here it says that your last name is Axxxxxxxxx-
ME: That is my last name. It's my second last name.
O: Well, in AMERICA it should be hyphenated. Like when someone's married.
ME: I'm not married. I have two last names and we don't hyphenate.
O: I don't know if I can let you through, Ms.
ME: ...
(more lecturing about AMERICA)
O: Do you have a credit card?
ME: What, to pay to pass?
O: What?
ME: Nothing. Yes, I do. Here it is.
O: See, here the name is written right.
ME: Right. (Pause)
O: Alright, go ahead.
ME: Gracias.

At SEA-TAC yesterday - domestic flight - using Greencard as ID

OFFICER: This the only form of ID you have?
ME: Yes, sir.
O: No license or state ID?
ME: No. Not right now. That's what I've been using all year.
O: This is not your name. This has an extra, un-hyphenated last name which is not on your boarding pass. So it's not your name.
ME: That's my name. I've never had any problems using this ID.
O: You see, in AMERICA we have one last name... (my culito puckers up) ... here it says that your last name is Armenta-
ME: That is my last name. It's my second last name.
O: Well, in AMERICA it should be hyphenated. Like when someone's married. (My culito frowns)
ME: I'm not married. I have two last names and we don't hyphenate.
O: I don't know if I can let you through, Ms.
ME: ...
(more lecturing about AMERICA)
O: Do you have a credit card?
ME: What, to pay to pass?
O: What?
ME: Nothing. Yes, I do. Here it is.
O: See, here the name is written right.
ME: Right. (Pause)
O: Alright, go ahead.
ME: Gracias. (My culito relaxes and I go take off my shoes for the strip down)

I know someone who works in the Civil Rights area of DHS if your friend wants to file a complaint.

Don't laugh, it actually does exist.

Mike

At SEA-TAC yesterday - domestic flight - using Greencard as ID

OFFICER: This the only form of ID you have?
ME: Yes, sir.
O: No license or state ID?
ME: No. Not right now. That's what I've been using all year.
O: This is not your name. This has an extra, un-hyphenated last name which is not on your boarding pass. So it's not your name.
ME: That's my name. I've never had any problems using this ID.
O: You see, in AMERICA we have one last name... (my culito puckers up) ... here it says that your last name is Armenta-
ME: That is my last name. It's my second last name.
O: Well, in AMERICA it should be hyphenated. Like when someone's married. (My culito frowns)
ME: I'm not married. I have two last names and we don't hyphenate.
O: I don't know if I can let you through, Ms.
ME: ...
(more lecturing about AMERICA)
O: Do you have a credit card?
ME: What, to pay to pass?
O: What?
ME: Nothing. Yes, I do. Here it is.
O: See, here the name is written right.
ME: Right. (Pause)
O: Alright, go ahead.
ME: Gracias. (My culito relaxes and I go take off my shoes for the strip down)

I only have a resident card and a passport.

No state ID. Since I move quit a bit. No drivers license and no cc. Guess I will get int trouble big times.

I know someone who works in the Civil Rights area of DHS if your friend wants to file a complaint.

Don't laugh, it actually does exist.

Mike

Now that is funny I don't care who you are.

Oh, you were serious, weren't you?

:p

That has to be a very small office.

The ignorance of some of these people is mind-boggling. (to hyphenate or not to hyphenate:D).

The products of a poor education system is partly to blame. Hiring people who sit around on Saturday nites drinking bad beer, smoking spliffs and eating pizza is probably more to blame.

I admit I never fully get it correct when trying to figure out where the father's name goes and where the mother's name goes, or whether there is a "de" or not. However, given the very large population of people of Hispanic origin in the US, I am aware that full names often involve both father's and mother's name.

I also believe that the "rules" around the ID check, what is on the BP, and what is on the ID are rather murky. Due to system limitations of the airline, United and AA print my name on the BP differently, and the middle names never match my ID.

It has never been a problem, nor should it be.

I run into issues because I have two first names and no middle name. But when I got my d/l, the dmv didn't like the 2 first name thing, and decided that my second first name was actually my MIDDLE name, and it needed to be an initial. So my d/l has First Name/Middle Initial/Last Name. But my passport, birth certificate, and other 'official' ID has First Name/First Name/Last name. So if I use my d/l at the airport, it doesn't match my boarding pass (which has my 'real' name).

I run into issues because I have two first names and no middle name. But when I got my d/l, the dmv didn't like the 2 first name thing, and decided that my second first name was actually my MIDDLE name, and it needed to be an initial. So my d/l has First Name/Middle Initial/Last Name. But my passport, birth certificate, and other 'official' ID has First Name/First Name/Last name. So if I use my d/l at the airport, it doesn't match my boarding pass (which has my 'real' name).

I have first to middle names then my first name. Then my last name.

I always get in trouble cause of that.Specially since I have no ID that names my first middle name as the first name.

It is not just Airports, the feckless hacks at HPD told me they didn't accept Military IDs or other Federal IDs like passport cards, or even LPRs (green cards) to enter their building however they do accept Mexican consulate matricula cards...

I asked what happend if someone that doesn't drive or is not from Texas or is not Mexican is a victim of crime and needs access to files, and I was told I was being a racist and offensive. I was also told offending the officer was a crime (yes I was told this verbatim).

Of course being the one cop stuck working the "front desk" means you probably weren't top of the class at the academy anyway. Sadly unlike TSA they have real badges and guns.

The ignorance of some of these people is mind-boggling. (to hyphenate or not to hyphenate:D).

The products of a poor education system is partly to blame. Hiring people who sit around on Saturday nites drinking bad beer, smoking spliffs and eating pizza is probably more to blame.

Hey, just because they're ______ and ______ [self moderation] doesn't mean that their job of saving the world from evil bad guys from spanish-speaking countries is any less important. In America, anybody can be a cop!

Now that is funny I don't care who you are.

Oh, you were serious, weren't you?

:p

That has to be a very small office.


One guy in a broom closet, available by appointment only, 10:00AM-10:05AM, alternating Thursdays.

One guy in a broom closet, available by appointment only, 10:00AM-10:05AM, alternating Thursdays.

Recipients of appointments are chosen by a panel of 3 year olds from the day care center.

O: Do you have a credit card?
ME: What, to pay to pass?
O: What?


I like this, a lot. Accuse the TSO of soliciting bribes if they ask for a credit card as a form of ID. Very clever. Wish I had thought of it.

In fact, there is a TSA Office of Civil Rights and Liberties:
http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/civilrights/travelers.shtm

and an Office of the Ombudsman and Traveler Engagement:
https://apps.tsa.dhs.gov/tsacontact/DynaForm.aspx?FormID=230

How to file a discrimination-based complaint:
http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/civilrights/filing_a_complaint.shtm

I like this, a lot. Accuse the TSO of soliciting bribes if they ask for a credit card as a form of ID. Very clever. Wish I had thought of it.

No way would I show a TSO my credit card - I would be really concerned about theft.

Oh good lord. OP, that's terrible.

While I do not work for this agency (or the feds), I do deal with matching names and birthdates and all that good stuff.
Our policy is that for any identification issued by us, the name and date of birth has to match the immigration document excactly. I have often gotten into arguments with people who object to having their full names listed on their identification. I understand that culturally, names are not uniform across the world, but in my capacity I cannot drop names, hyphenate names, or add names without official back up documentation.

So even though in your daily life you go by AAA BBB, if your immigration document list your name as AAA CCC BBB EEE, that's what I have to go by. It's very frustrating on both ends because the customer now has CC's and tickets and bank accounts and what not that shows their name as AAA BBB, but official identification that says AAA CCC BBB EEE.

Oh good lord. OP, that's terrible.

While I do not work for this agency (or the feds), I do deal with matching names and birthdates and all that good stuff.
Our policy is that for any identification issued by us, the name and date of birth has to match the immigration document excactly. I have often gotten into arguments with people who object to having their full names listed on their identification. I understand that culturally, names are not uniform across the world, but in my capacity I cannot drop names, hyphenate names, or add names without official back up documentation.

So even though in your daily life you go by AAA BBB, if your immigration document list your name as AAA CCC BBB EEE, that's what I have to go by. It's very frustrating on both ends because the customer now has CC's and tickets and bank accounts and what not that shows their name as AAA BBB, but official identification that says AAA CCC BBB EEE.

And some names have hyphens or spaces or caps versus lower case or accents. I have a relative back in Italy with an accent and that never translates here (there are plenty of others)

Names like D'Amico or McIntyre or von Stein or De Susa etc. have it harder when dealing with TSA and other uncultured agencies.

Oh good lord. OP, that's terrible.

While I do not work for this agency (or the feds), I do deal with matching names and birthdates and all that good stuff.
Our policy is that for any identification issued by us, the name and date of birth has to match the immigration document excactly. I have often gotten into arguments with people who object to having their full names listed on their identification. I understand that culturally, names are not uniform across the world, but in my capacity I cannot drop names, hyphenate names, or add names without official back up documentation.

So even though in your daily life you go by AAA BBB, if your immigration document list your name as AAA CCC BBB EEE, that's what I have to go by. It's very frustrating on both ends because the customer now has CC's and tickets and bank accounts and what not that shows their name as AAA BBB, but official identification that says AAA CCC BBB EEE.


My tickets always show BBB and last name.

And my resident card shows AAA CCC BBB and last name. And the reason for that ( I was told that is how it most be done).

In my case the immigration office told me they are aware and know that countries have different ways to have names. But they have to go by the first name E EVEN it is a middle name. But the lady also added that I cant use a middle name as a first name if I never have used it as a first name. That could be illegal. She knew that this could really give me attitude and so on.

Now that is funny I don't care who you are.

Oh, you were serious, weren't you?

:p

That has to be a very small office.

Believe it or not, she's Ivy League educated and gives a d*mn. I know, you'd never have thunk it, right?

Mike

I know someone who works in the Civil Rights area of DHS if your friend wants to file a complaint.

Don't laugh, it actually does exist.

Mike


thanks and she does.

How to file a discrimination-based complaint:
http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/civilrights/filing_a_complaint.shtm
Or this is how you do it in person:
"But the plans were on display . . ."
"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."
"That's the display department."
"With a torch."
"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs."
"But look, you found the notice, didn't you?"
"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard."

How to file a discrimination-based complaint:
http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/civilr...complaint.shtm


Thanks for the link.

Why do I get that gnawing feeling that at the end of the process is a "Thank you for your submission. After reviewing all relevant information we find that the TSO acted appropriately for the situation. Please feel free to contact us again if we can be of service."

Pardon me for being the cynic.

H

Thanks for the link.

Why do I get that gnawing feeling that at the end of the process is a "Thank you for your submission. After reviewing all relevant information we find that the TSO acted appropriately for the situation. Please feel free to contact us again if we can be of service."

Pardon me for being the cynic.

Isn't that what's printed at the bottom of the complaint form? :cool:

At SEA-TAC yesterday - domestic flight - using Greencard as ID

O: Do you have a credit card?
ME: What, to pay to pass?
O: What?
ME: Nothing. Yes, I do. Here it is.
O: See, here the name is written right.

This had nothing to do with a name problem. The TS"O" wanted to see a credit card so that information could be stolen from it. (Yes, seriously.)

I'd call the credit card company and get them to send you a new card, or at a very minimum at least keep an eye out for fraudulent charges over the coming months.

Or this is how you do it in person:


"But the plans were on display . . ."
"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."
"That's the display department."
"With a torch."
"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs."
"But look, you found the notice, didn't you?"
"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard."

I wish this BB software had a like button. I work with government quite often, and this is how I ALWAYS feel when dealing with the bureaucracy. (And I am someone who understands the reason --- and often the need --- for such a bureaucracy).

...as long as they spell and hyphenate their names correctly; nobody wants to hire a hyphenate these days. ;)

Hey, just because they're ______ and ______ [self moderation] doesn't mean that their job of saving the world from evil bad guys from spanish-speaking countries is any less important. In America, anybody can be a cop!

TSA AGENT: This the only form of ID you have?

Correct response:
"This is the ID I'm using. "

AGENT: No license or state ID?

Correct response:
"Why? This is an accepted form of government-issued ID."

AGENT: This is not your name. This has an extra, un-hyphenated last name which is not on your boarding pass. So it's not your name.

Correct response:
"This is my name. Am I being denied access to the checkpoint? If so, then please summon a supervisor."

AGENT: You see, in AMERICA we have one last name... ... here it says that your last name is Axxxxxxxxx-

Correct response:
"I'm going to need to speak with a supervisor, immediately" followed by a conversation with the supervisor about the document checker's disrespectful/condescending behavior, harassment, apparent bigotry, etc.

At SEA-TAC yesterday - domestic flight - using Greencard as ID

OFFICER: This the only form of ID you have?
ME: Yes, sir.
O: No license or state ID?
ME: No. Not right now. That's what I've been using all year.
O: This is not your name. This has an extra, un-hyphenated last name which is not on your boarding pass. So it's not your name.
ME: That's my name. I've never had any problems using this ID.
O: You see, in AMERICA we have one last name... ... here it says that your last name is Axxxxxxxxx-
ME: That is my last name. It's my second last name.
O: Well, in AMERICA it should be hyphenated. Like when someone's married.
ME: I'm not married. I have two last names and we don't hyphenate.
O: I don't know if I can let you through, Ms.
ME: ...
(more lecturing about AMERICA)
O: Do you have a credit card?
ME: What, to pay to pass?
O: What?
ME: Nothing. Yes, I do. Here it is.
O: See, here the name is written right.
ME: Right. (Pause)
O: Alright, go ahead.
ME: Gracias.

Perhaps he was taking lessons from Former Mayor for Life in DC, Marion Barry....

Perhaps he was taking lessons from Former Mayor for Life in DC, Marion Barry....

Geez! Give him a break! He apologized... (http://dcist.com/2012/05/barry_offers_briefest_apology_ever.php)

FYI, you're never a "former" Mayor For Life...;)

I look forward to hearing my first "In America we...." comment when I come over. I think I will have to respond with "I apologise profusely for being born in a country where we clearly do things incorrectly."

It is with great sorrow that I must announce that my friend was of virtually no help to the OP. :(

Mike

It is with great sorrow that I must announce that my friend was of virtually no help to the OP. :(

Mike

Not to be disparaging of your friend, but... she does work for DHS, after all. How helpful could she possibly be?

Not to be disparaging of your friend, but... she does work for DHS, after all. How helpful could she possibly be?

One can always dream...

Mike

Our au pair has two last names. They don't both fit on her boarding pass even when I make sure they are in the system. They are both on her state ID not hyphenated.

So far we haven't had any problems getting out of SEA yet and sure hope we don't get that document checker.