I am flying Air New Zealand YVR>NAN (stop), then NAN>AKL>SYD (destination) this November using UA MP miles for the trip. I have received Bus seats (UA lists fare bucket "I") for all the flights except the leg from NAN to AKL which is an all coach flight (Nov 23 NZ755, Depart NAN 20:20 arr AKL 00:25 Nov 24).
I will have 2 bags to check, bag1 = 19kg - bag2 = 14kg. Will I have to pay AUS120 baggage fee for the second bag for this leg? The connection in AKL for the flight to SYD is technically same day, but is a 12:20 layover. The flight AKL>SYD is in Bus ("I").
I *thought* I saw a posting on this board that when an "I" class reward maps to a NZ flight w/o any business seats, the flyer receives the business class luggage allowance, even though the fare class shows "Economy X".
Thanks in advance for any experiences or information you may have.
kaimanawa
May 21, 12, 12:30 pm
Hmmm... the agents in NAN are very strict about baggage charges, and you're situation is quite unique. Since you have a lot of time, I'd do my best to enquire with Air NZ directly and get a written response from them via e-mail (go to "Contact Us" on airnz.co.nz).
Here's what you're after:
You either need to be booked as a "Works Deluxe" passenger for NAN-AKL (2 bags), or have the agent in NAN recognise your transit in Auckland as a transfer and award you the Business entitlement (3 bags).
Also, unless you're flying via AKL from YVR to NAN, note that your flight is operated by Air Pacific for the Transpac segment.
serfty
May 21, 12, 4:25 pm
If this is on the one booking then you have two Journies.
The first is strait forward with the allowance being for Business on the operating carrier.
The second brings in MSC which would be the allowance of the operating carrier for NAN-AKL.
Note that if you booking had commenced in the USA then the allowance would be that for USA-NAN and apply for the entire booking.
MSPpete
May 22, 12, 7:00 am
Thanks to you both for your answers. I think I will take kaimanawa's suggestion and email NZ with my question and if the answer is 2 bags, bring a print out with me to the NAN airport.
Clarification: my outbound route is actually MSP>ORD>YVR>AKL>NAN and I will get 3 free bags because I check-in with United at MSP. My return is SYD>SFO>PHX>MSP and since first flight is UA, will also get 3 free bags. It is just the NAN>AKL>SYD portion where I might get hit with bag fees.
I could have taken a shorter route with paid flights, MSP>LAX>NAN, but where is the fun in that?
Thanks again
serfty
May 22, 12, 3:10 pm
Is this all on the one ticket?
If so, then the last sentence in my previous post applies (due to the USA DOT exception). This is in relation to the non elite allowance for the "marketing carrier" in the class booked of either your YVR-AKL leg or MSP-YVR leg - this can be at the whim of UA in MSP.
The second brings in MSC which would be the allowance of the operating carrier for NAN-AKL.
Not if AKL-SYD is also on NZ (which I assume it is given the lack of any other *A carrier on this route) - IATA302/MSC applies only to interline journeys, and my understanding is that an interline only occurs when Airline A operating leg A is shunting the bags off to Airline B operating leg B. If the OP is in J on AKL-SYD then doesn't he get the three bag allowance for that flight applied to his first NAN-AKL journey as per NZ's "highest allowance applies" rule?
serfty
May 23, 12, 4:08 pm
Not if AKL-SYD is also on NZ (which I assume it is given the lack of any other *A carrier on this route) - IATA302/MSC applies only to interline journeys, and my understanding is that an interline only occurs when Airline A operating leg A is shunting the bags off to Airline B operating leg B. If the OP is in J on AKL-SYD then doesn't he get the three bag allowance for that flight applied to his first NAN-AKL journey as per NZ's "highest allowance applies" rule?Under 302 and the USA DOT exception the allowance selected at the commencement of the travel on the PNR apples to ALL travel on that PNR.
Also with the USA DOT exception, it relies on the actual flight numbers - not the operating carrier.
Please check the link I made upthread as well as the following:
In reality, unless the OP provides the actual flight numbers of the first segment to NAN, we cannot know the allowance for certain.
My understanding in this case is that if the baggage allowance for the first leg is 3 bags at (whatever) then the allowance for all legs is the same. The actual flights numbers are (somewhat) academic given that the baggage allowance for the check-in leg would be determined by that anyway.
Top of climb
May 24, 12, 4:23 pm
Correct insofar that the entire journey is on one ticket. But if (a) NAN-AKL-SYD is on a separate ticket; and (b) both NAN-AKL and AKL-SYD are both on Air NZ then 302 simply doesn't apply because there is no interline. NZ applies the higher allowance at NAN check-in as per its own rules.
serfty
May 24, 12, 4:59 pm
Correct insofar that the entire journey is on one ticket. But if (a) NAN-AKL-SYD is on a separate ticket; and (b) both NAN-AKL and AKL-SYD are both on Air NZ then 302 simply doesn't apply because there is no interline. NZ applies the higher allowance at NAN check-in as per its own rules.In post one the OP did not include the USA origin.
They made it clearer in post #4 which changed the answer(s) somewhat. They still have not specifically answered the question about travel being on the one PNR.
I have taken the OP as meaning the whole journey is booked on the one ticket.
I'm not sure the OP is aware of how important their answer to the "one ticket" question is. Until they answer that, much of what we can provide is in specific case "what if" scenarios.
Trumpkin
May 24, 12, 6:43 pm
Is there a difference here between a single PNR and two linked PNRs?
serfty
May 24, 12, 7:30 pm
I believe so ...
MSPpete
May 25, 12, 7:02 am
It is all on one ticket/PNR
MSP>ORD>YVR on UA First & Bus (O & I)
YVR>AKL>NAN on NZ Bus(I) *stopover
NAN>AKL (all coach (X))>SYD (Bus(I)) on NZ *destination
SYD>SFO (Bus (I)) on UA
SFO>PHX>MSP (first (O) on US
120K MP miles and ~$250 in taxes and fees
Thanks for the thoughtful analysis. With this info I can contact NZ and get a written confirmation that I can bring to NAN when I check-in.:p
im-headed-west
May 25, 12, 7:00 pm
...
Thanks for the thoughtful analysis. With this info I can contact NZ and get a written confirmation that I can bring to NAN when I check-in.:p
Let me know how it goes if you don't mind. I'm on a UA *A F award this Fall, all on one PNR of course:
IAD-LAX-SYD(stopover)-ZQN(dest/openjaw)-CHC-SYD-SFO-IAD
O - O - X - X- O -I
and would definitely like to take something with me in case I run into problems at check-in.
I called ANZ 1-800 number a few weeks ago and asked what my bag allowance was and the agent said, "I don't know, ask United".
MSPpete
Jun 6, 12, 8:55 am
Copy of my email to NZ submitted via their website is below. I will post the reply.
Customer - 06/06/2012 07:51 AM
I would like information on my baggage allowance for an itinerary booked through United Airlines with segments on Air New Zealand.
UA PNR xxxxx
NZ PNR xxxxx
Routing is:
MSP-ORD on UA
ORD-YVR on UA
YVR-AKL-NAN on NZ
*Stopover in NAN
NAN-AKL-SYD on NZ
*Destination is SYD
SYD-SFO-DEN-MSP on UA
My understanding per US DOT rule 14 CFR 399.87 that my baggage allowance for the entire trip is governed by the operating carrier of the first segment of my journey, which is United Airlines.
My concern is the baggage allowance on the segment from NAN-AKL (NZ755) on Friday November 23. I will likely have 3 bags to check, all under 50 pounds in weight.
Per US DOT rule 14 CFR 399.8 OR because I am connecting to an Air New Zealand flight in business class for the AKL-SYD segment: will I be able to check 3 bags without a baggage fee when I check-in for my flight NAN-AKL?
Thanks in advance for this clarification of the baggage fees I will pay.
alex_b
Jun 6, 12, 1:39 pm
I have (almost) the opposite problem. I am flying UA - JFK->LAX and then NZ LAX->AKL->NPE, returning on the same route.
I want to know what the surfboard charge will be outbound and return as United charge $100 domestic, $200 international and NZ allow a surfboard free (counted as an item of luggage). Under IATA 302 it would clearly be the NZ charges, but under DOT I think that I'm potentially stuck with United's less generous policy out and back.
serfty
Jun 6, 12, 3:41 pm
Copy of my email to NZ submitted via their website is below. I will post the reply.
....
My understanding per US DOT rule 14 CFR 399.87 that my baggage allowance for the entire trip is governed by the operating carrier of the first segment of my journey, which is United Airlines.
..."operating carrier" is incorrect when the US DOT exception is applied; it is the "Marketing carrier". (i.e. The carrier who's flight number it is)
In addition, it is not necessarily the marketing carrier of the first segment, with MSC and that routing it would be the allowance for the TC1(Americas)-TC3(Asia/Pacific) segment on NZ.
When the departure or arrival city or furthest destination of a ticket is one in the U.S.A., the allowance selected at the beginning of the journey applies, whether a stopover is involved or not.
For code-share flights which include a city in the U.S.A., the most significant carrier should be the airline that sold the ticket.
serfty
Jun 6, 12, 3:46 pm
I have (almost) the opposite problem. I am flying UA - JFK->LAX and then NZ LAX->AKL->NPE, returning on the same route. ...If there's a stopover in LAX then it's UA, if the initial LAX is a transit then it's NZ's for the entire trip.
That assumes US and NZ flight numbers - if the LAX-AKL is on a UA codeshare then it's UA's.
alex_b
Jun 6, 12, 7:39 pm
If there's a stopover in LAX then it's UA, if the initial LAX is a transit then it's NZ's for the entire trip.
That assumes US and NZ flight numbers - if the LAX-AKL is on a UA codeshare then it's UA's.
No stopover and no code shares. What's the DOT rule tht covers this so that I can point the checkin staff to it when they get it wrong?
serfty
Jun 6, 12, 8:09 pm
APTCO - Five Facts You Need to Know about Baggage (http://www.atpco.net/atpco/download/Five_baggage_facts.pdf)
4. What should you do?
Airlines should make sure their baggage policies are included in ATPCO’s Baggage Allowance and Charges database. You should also confirm that any pricing systems with which you work are using data from this system in conjunction with IATA Resolution 302 and the US DOT disclosure requirements.
All pricing systems, travel agencies (online and offline), and other travel resellers should ensure they can disclose passengers’ applicable baggage allowance and charges at the time of fare quote and on e-ticket confirmations, following all processes defined by IATA Resolution 302, the DOT tariff filing requirements, and the new DOT disclosure regulations.ATPCO’s baggage data can help you comply with these regulations.
Taking into consideration the US DOT baggage and tariff regulations, as well as IATA Resolution 302, airlines and pricing and departure control systems should make sure:
The first marketing carrier on a flight provides the passenger with baggage allowance and charges information for the entire journey
The MSC rules are applied to the journey, and in order to comply with tariff filing requirements, the MSC must be the marketing carrier to/from the United States
Baggage allowance and charges for the outbound direction apply for the entire journey ...
MSPpete
Jun 15, 12, 7:58 am
Here is the answer from NZ:
"If you are through checked from Fiji to Sydney (via Auckland) then the Business Class allowance will apply. This is three bags up to 23 kg in weight (50 lbs) each."
Of course I likely won't be through checked since my layover is ~18 hours and overnight (which they know if they looked at the itin). I doubt the responder looked at the itinerary.
To sum up, a non-answer.
:mad:
im-headed-west
Jun 16, 12, 9:05 am
Bummer MSPpete ...
Looking at the last link serfty provided, and scanning down to the bottom, looks like UA may be responsible if NZ does not follow the rules and charges you a baggage fee incorrectly, ? though I can't imagine getting a refund from UA would be easy :
5. What happens if you do not comply with the regulations?
Airlines need to be able to quote passengers the correct baggage information at all points of sale. Effective 24 January 2012, if a passenger is charged incorrect baggage fees or is not provided with the correct baggage information at the time of fare quote and ticketing and you are the only airline on the ticket, then your company could be subject to enforcement action, possibly including fines from the DOT.
If a passenger is charged the wrong amount or is not provided with the correct baggage information and there are other airlines on the ticket, then you are obligated to refund the difference between the correct baggage fee and the amount paid. Effective 24 July 2012, this type of error could also result in enforcement action. ATPCO’s Baggage Calculator Online will help you process these refund requests accurately and efficiently, and you can learn more about this tool at our Baggage Calculator page.
Also, just curious of the experience of others with mixed airline itineraries. The links serfty and others have provided have lots of baggage rule details, but do airlines really follow the rules ?
serfty
Jun 17, 12, 6:27 pm
...
Also, just curious of the experience of others with mixed airline itineraries. The links serfty and others have provided have lots of baggage rule details, but do airlines really follow the rules ?The problem is IATA resolution 302 this is relatively new in the industry; having been in effect for 14 months.
And, there are effectively two rules: One for non USA itineraries which is based on a "per Journey" of which a PNR may have several and another for USA itineraries with the one allowance applying for the entire PNR.
Many antipodean agents may not be fully aware of the ramifications for the USA exception.
Here is the answer from NZ:
"If you are through checked from Fiji to Sydney (via Auckland) then the Business Class allowance will apply. This is three bags up to 23 kg in weight (50 lbs) each."
Of course I likely won't be through checked since my layover is ~18 hours and overnight (which they know if they looked at the itin). I doubt the responder looked at the itinerary.
To sum up, a non-answer.
:mad:That answer would be just about correct if the travel did not originate in the USA.
The CS agent replying from NZ may not be aware of this USA exception to IATA resolution.
I would reply quoting the USA DoT exception and its role in "IATA 302" and "Most Significant Carrier".
im-headed-west
Aug 2, 12, 7:36 am
Here is the answer from NZ:
"If you are through checked from Fiji to Sydney (via Auckland) then the Business Class allowance will apply. This is three bags up to 23 kg in weight (50 lbs) each."
Of course I likely won't be through checked since my layover is ~18 hours and overnight (which they know if they looked at the itin). I doubt the responder looked at the itinerary.
To sum up, a non-answer.
:mad:
I think my UA MP *A award now has some additional baggage specifics I hadn't noticed before.
My situation is similar ... Int F award with first 2 segments in O, stopover in SYD, ZQN dest in Y, CHC opensaw in Y.
My e-mail to NZ a month ago came back that my Y flights are "the works" ... so definitely not 2 bags free.
Viewing itn at united.com, under View Current Reservation:
Checking bags for this itinerary
Checked baggage service charges are collected at any point in the itinerary where bags are checked. The bag service charges below reflect a maximum outside linear dimension of 62 linear inches (157 cm)
First and second baggage service charges per traveler as listed below:
1st bag 2nd bag Weight per bag
Washington, DC (IAD - Dulles) to Sydney, Australia (SYD)
$0 $0 70.0 lbs (32 kgs)
Sydney, Australia (SYD) to Queenstown NZ (ZQN)
$0 $0 70.0 lbs (32 kgs)
Christchurch NZ (CHC) to Sydney, Australia (SYD)
$0 $0 70.0 lbs (32 kgs)
Sydney, Australia (SYD) to Washington, DC (IAD - Dulles)
$0 $0 70.0 lbs (32 kgs)