Asia - Burma [Myanmar]?

My boyfriend and I are planning a trip to Southeast Asia. Neither of us have ever been but we are very interested in exploring. We were originally thinking Thailand but have now been turned onto Burma after reading some favorable articles. In light of my ignorance on the topic, I'd love some advice from those who have extensive southeast Asia travel experience.

We have about 18 days (including travel from/to Washington, DC) and would like to combine the trip with a couple days stop in Hong Kong and/or Bangkok.

We tend to prefer 4-5* accommodations and are also fairly adventurous when it comes to sightseeing. We are aware of the lack of ATMs, cell phone service, and internet access (I believe).

We need recommendations on specific destinations (Yangon, Bagan, Inle Lake?), hotels (The Strand, The Governors Residence, Malikha Lodge?), and sites.

Or, as first time Asia travelers, should we stick to Thailand?

Thanks.

My boyfriend and I are planning a trip to Southeast Asia. Neither of us have ever been but we are very interested in exploring. We were originally thinking Thailand but have now been turned onto Burma after reading some favorable articles. In light of my ignorance on the topic, I'd love some advice from those who have extensive southeast Asia travel experience.

We have about 18 days (including travel from/to Washington, DC) and would like to combine the trip with a couple days stop in Hong Kong and/or Bangkok.

We tend to prefer 4-5* accommodations and are also fairly adventurous when it comes to sightseeing. We are aware of the lack of ATMs, cell phone service, and internet access (I believe).

We need recommendations on specific destinations (Yangon, Bagan, Inle Lake?), hotels (The Strand, The Governors Residence, Malikha Lodge?), and sites.

Or, as first time Asia travelers, should we stick to Thailand?

Thanks.
Without really knowing you, the easy answer is yes, stick to Thailand as first time Asia travelers. Spend a few days in Hong Kong on the way over or back. That describes my first (civilian) trip to the region 30 years ago. You might consider a side trip to Siem Reap/Angkor Wat in Cambodia.

IMO, this is a list of countries in the region ordered by likely degree of culture shock and developed tourist infrastructure:


Hong Kong
Thailand
Vietnam
Cambodia
Laos
Myanmar/Burma


Siem Reap, Cambodia is about on the same level as Thailand, the rest of the country is more challenging, about the same as Laos. My first visit to Myanmar/Burma will be in January, so my opinion is not first hand.

Everyone who has been to Southeast Asia will have their own personal opinion, of course, and this is just mine, nothing more.

I think I would more or less concur with that, although I would probably put Cambodia ahead of Vietnam.

Burma is a fascinating place. And it is changing quickly. But the tourist infrastructure is stretched at the moment. And the general infrastructure is weak. If you are a very patient person who can deal well with setbacks, delays, etc. then you might do OK. But don't expect much in the way of lavish accommodations, new transport/cars/vans, good roads, nice airports, etc. For that I think your best bet is to see Thailand for this trip. That amount of time is good for seeing a good bit of the country. Do Bangkok, Chiang Mai and the north, maybe the northeast. If you are a beach person add that in. Thailand has fantastic hotels at extremely reasonable prices. Skip Hong Kong and it's sticker shock this time.

IMO, this is a list of countries in the region ordered by likely degree of culture shock and developed tourist infrastructure:


Hong Kong
Thailand
Vietnam
Cambodia
Laos
Myanmar/Burma


Everyone who has been to Southeast Asia will have their own personal opinion, of course, and this is just mine, nothing more.

I have fairly extensive experience traveling (independently) in all of these countries and would agree with this list in terms of development levels and user-friendliness for travelers. I would add Singapore as up there with Hong Kong. And insert (peninsular) Malaysia above Thailand. I'll omit the non-mainland countries for brevity.

I'm also not sure Burma is a good first-time destination for someone who has never been in SE Asia. You say you like 4 and 5* accommodations but by the definition as you understand it, those are in short supply. And even then, can theoretically be disrupted by inadequate electricity supply (= no a/c) and the like. On the "con" side are poor infrastructure, food that is generally not the region's best, very poor medical facilities in case of trouble, lots of prevalent disease. On the "pro" side are great people and very little scamming...which is not necessarily the case in some of the other SE Asian countries. But as said above, if you are not the type of person that can "roll with the punches" with delays, breakdowns, forced plan changes, etc., then get your feet wet elsewhere.

Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand would be easier for you to manage, and particularly if you will be travelling independently or perhaps picking up a local guide in whichever locations you end up. Each of the SE Asian countries is quite different from the others and has plenty to keep you busy and enthralled, so there's no such thing as a "bad" choice in SE Asia.

Do not try to do too much. Subtract the long haul from the USA and you have essentially 2 weeks to play with. Not a lot of time, so don't split it too many ways. If you decide to give Burma a try, you don't have time to do any more than the big 4: Yangon, Bagan area, Mandalay area, Inle Lake area. It might be possible to squeeze in stops in Pyin-oo-Lwin (Maymyo) or Kalaw/Pindaya area. You'll need to fly between Yangon and upcountry, and vice versa. Possibly at least one or more other legs between the rest.

IMO, this is a list of countries in the region ordered by likely degree of culture shock and developed tourist infrastructure:


Hong Kong
Thailand
Vietnam
Cambodia
Laos
Myanmar/Burma


.

My list

Singapore
Hong Kong (it's not in SEAsia)
Thailand
Malaysia
Indonesia
Vietnam
Burma
Laos
Cambodia

One thing which you guys forgot is how well the Burmese speak English, I believe they speak better English than the rest of SEAsia. Secondly, as someone else has mentioned, the Burmese are very helpful which make things a bit easier.

I would recommend going to Myanmar now as it will be changing rapidly and there is a real opportunity to see the country before it gets totally westernised.

The tourst areas all have reasonably decent hotels, internet is now much more open than it was and again available in the main tourist areas (although the speed is still slow and it does go down a lot).

I would recommend that you make arrangements before you arrive. There are several travel agencies that will organise everything for you, including hotels, internal flights and english speaking tour guides. If you can afford it and want to go in style the Orient Express runs upmarket boat tours.

We need recommendations on specific destinations (Yangon, Bagan, Inle Lake?), hotels (The Strand, The Governors Residence, Malikha Lodge?), and sites.

Or, as first time Asia travelers, should we stick to Thailand?

Thanks.

It was only a month or so ago, I woke early and took a bike from the lobby and rode out through the back fence along a bush track. I wanted to explore the twelve temples that I could see from the window. I was in Bagan, it was the most incredible place, a flat plain that spreads for miles from the river to the mountains and on it are hundreds of temples and stupas, red brick bases and walls of long forgotten buddha shrines. This is what interested me.

I was the only person out there, and I explored for a couple of hours until the sun took it's toll and I retreated to the hotel. I was in and out of temples, up and over, there was just so much that I loved andn I was on my own. Later that morning, the guide picked us up and took us to a mountain which had a monastry for the monks on the top, then we came home and at sunset we crawled up to the top of their highest temple, and we sat on our bots for an hour and watched the sun dissappear.

For lunch the cook grilled some chicken, cut it in strips and put them on top of a mixture of diced pineapple and mango, then drizzled some chilli lime dressing on top.

Thailand you will also love, for a first trip stay at the Peninsula or the Shangri La down on the river, it is 5* luxury, If you are going to Hong Kong stay on the Island not the mainland, the Grand Hyatt is hard to beat and in Yangoon avoid the Strand, go for the Goveners residence or Kandawgli Palace I envy you seeing all these treats for the first time, I remember Bangkok absolutely scared me, and the heat and all those smells. The problem with Asia it takes time, Hong kong to bangkok will wipe out a day, sometimes just getting over arriving somewhere is enough to send you to the pol to lay down with a drink for an hour or two, enjoy and do little is my advice

IMO, this is a list of countries in the region ordered by likely degree of culture shock and developed tourist infrastructure:


Hong Kong
Thailand
Vietnam
Cambodia
Laos
Myanmar/Burma



There is no way that Singapore is not at the top of list! Some of my friends refer to it as 'Disney Asia' or 'Asia Lite'.

Also, to the OP: rather interesting to start a thread on Burma right now. Oh, if you only knew.....

We had an exceptional trip to Burma this last year. It is not a country I would recommend for a first time visitor. There are complications that are not easy for an unseasoned traveler. You cannot use credit cards. There are no ATMs. You have to bring a thick wad of bills, either dollars or euros. If dollars, they must be the ones with the large heads. They must be crisp bills that have not been folded. My husband went to the bank and went thru packs of currency with the teller to find acceptable bills. He chose perhaps 1 or 2 bills out of 10. Even so, when we were leaving the country, our guide did not take the first bill we offered for her to take to pay for our departure tax. She felt it would be rejected as not sufficiently crisp. Our guide for our visit had about $300 in currency given him as tips that he cannot convert to local currency because it is not fresh enough.

Philosophically, I wanted to do as little as possible to support the current regime. That meant that I carefully chose my hotels and even my internal flights to find ones owned by local folks and not by members of the ruling party. For example, the grandest hotel in Bagan, the Aureum Palace, is owned by a family member of the leading Army general.

Infrastructure is poor. You can't just arrive at Inle Lake, find a guide, and a good hotel on the lake. It takes a lot of advanced planning.

We had a near flawless trip and a wonderful time. I want to return. But it would be quite overwhelming for a new traveler to organize if you want to be an independent traveler. Perhaps it would be different if you joined an organized tour (of which we saw none) so that you could pay outside the country and not worry about your arrangements.

But it would be quite overwhelming for a new traveler to organize if you want to be an independent traveler.

While this is the general consensus, I am not so sure I would agree. It really depends on how you look at it.

The main inconvenience is the limited acceptance of credit card. Some hotels accept it, they process payment through their associates in Bangkok. It is also possible to overcome this inconvenience by prepaying for your rooms prior to arrival. Many hotels are foreign owned (especially those based in Singapore) and it's possible to process credit card payment prior to arrival.

Perhaps we get cleaner USD notes at money changers here in SE Asia, none of my notes was rejected by the merchants there.

If one is able to overcome the above incoveniences, it's actually quite straightforward. Put it this way, I find it easier to agree on a taxi fare in Burma than dealing with a dishonest driver in Bangkok or Beijing, or trying to navigate the subway in Tokyo or NYC. And while people are generally poor; there is no long queue and no one is going to scam you with stories like "The Grand Palace is closed today, I can bring you to a nice temple ...." etc

The charm of Burma is how simple life is over there, it's like going back in time to the sixties with no ATM nor credit card nor 'faulty' taxi meters. We did Burma (Rangoon, Bagan & Mandalay) quite easily without a guide 10 years ago, its the most amazing destination I have been to in SE Asia and it's probably time for a second trip before it becomes the second Thailand ...

I only had issues with a couple of my USD notes. The place I exchanged in Mandalay would accept the lesser notes, but just at a lesser (very slightly) exchange rate.

You can tip your guide in kyat to avoid them discovering later that the tip you gave them was unchangable for whatever reason.

Nearly everyone who goes there wants to avoid lining the pockets of the generals and their cronies. I concluded that it is virtually impossible to completely avoid it. Who else has the capital to run an airline for example. But you can do your best to not use their hotels, use local transport when possible, etc.

We had an exceptional trip to Burma this last year. It is not a country I would recommend for a first time visitor. There are complications that are not easy for an unseasoned traveler. You cannot use credit cards. There are no ATMs. You have to bring a thick wad of bills, either dollars or euros. If dollars, they must be the ones with the large heads. They must be crisp bills that have not been folded. My husband went to the bank and went thru packs of currency with the teller to find acceptable bills. He chose perhaps 1 or 2 bills out of 10. Even so, when we were leaving the country, our guide did not take the first bill we offered for her to take to pay for our departure tax. She felt it would be rejected as not sufficiently crisp. Our guide for our visit had about $300 in currency given him as tips that he cannot convert to local currency because it is not fresh enough.

Philosophically, I wanted to do as little as possible to support the current regime. That meant that I carefully chose my hotels and even my internal flights to find ones owned by local folks and not by members of the ruling party. For example, the grandest hotel in Bagan, the Aureum Palace, is owned by a family member of the leading Army general.

Infrastructure is poor. You can't just arrive at Inle Lake, find a guide, and a good hotel on the lake. It takes a lot of advanced planning.

We had a near flawless trip and a wonderful time. I want to return. But it would be quite overwhelming for a new traveler to organize if you want to be an independent traveler. Perhaps it would be different if you joined an organized tour (of which we saw none) so that you could pay outside the country and not worry about your arrangements.

Very useful comments.

Given that many FTers, myself included, are headed to Myanmar over the next year, perhaps you could write (or link to) a detailed trip report.

I forgot how specific one needs to be, to avoid the post parsers, most of whom are eager to show off their experience rather than address the OP and try to answer a question with their opinion.

I should have said "Mainland Southeast Asia and Hong Kong, excluding Peninsular/Island southeast Asia." Thanks for pointing out the obvious, that Singapore should "top the list" in infrastructure and development. :rolleyes: I included Hong Kong because the OP said they want to stop there.

The OP's question was simple: They have 18 days. Should their first trip to Asia be to Myanmar/Burma or to Thailand? They want to stop in Hong Kong (or Bangkok). They like 4/5*s.

I'm sure they will have a great time in either place. If it were my son, a traveler, but not yet to Asia, asking me the question, and he had 18 days, I would tell him to go to Thailand. And arrange a long layover or 2 day stopover in Hong Kong, like i do every few trips to the region. My opinion.

I forgot how specific one needs to be, to avoid the post parsers, most of whom are eager to show off their experience rather than address the OP and try to answer a question with their opinion.


Take it easy. It was a joke. I figured SG was omitted because it didn't even count as an Asian experience!

Thank you for the advice so far. I think we have decided on Thailand with possibly a side trip to Siem Reap. I'm thinking 4 nights at the FS Bangkok, 4 in the FS Chiang Mai, 5 at Sarojin in Khao Lak. How should we fit Siem Reap into this? Or is that doing too much?

I went on 7 weeks SE Asia trip on my own in 2004
NYC - stopover in Hong Kong 1 day- BKK- Chiangmai -BKK-overland to Cambodia/ Siem Riep- Southern Thailand -overland to Eastern Malaysia/ Islands Pulau Kesil & Pulau Besar - Kuala Lumpur -Penang -KL -overnight train to Singapore - back to NY...
You have to remember that you will have to deal with long flight , 12 hour time difference /jet lag and sudden change to tropic weather ( I am assuming you going in fall/ winter/spring - you don't want to be there in monsoon season..check weather for each destination carefully. I actually ended up with horrible vertigo for couple days due to combination of all of the above- there was typhoon in HK on my first stop 100% humidity ,above 100 F temp, you couldn't see far, steamy like inside of sauna..very hard to adjust ..
Now every time I'd go to Asia, I'll break a flight for day/two: Europe, Hawaii..
I used Air Asia for all internal flight, cheap and good. Favorite memories are Chiangmai , SiemReap/Ankgor Wat, overland 5 hour taxi ride to Siem Riep from Thai border for $20 , turned out to be one of highlights of the trip, Malaysian islands.. I wouldn't spend more then a day in Bangkok, see Grand Palace, ride a river taxi, get a good meal, that's about it. Northern Thailand is beautiful. Ankgor is mind-blowing , hopefully still is even though it's overrun by tourists now. Thai food is great, Cambodians like to cook everything in coconut milk- meat, fish..
As for Burma , I am going this November for 2 weeks.. from what I gathered trip have to be pushed back into late fall/ winter in case of long monsoon season, it's going to be time of festivals/ high tourist season - accommodation might be impossible to find unless you book well in advance, there is a big wave of tourists from China and Japan, internal flights space is very limited, many cars/ buses are old- will prolong you ride sometimes dramatically, food is not the best in the region, some places in the North/treks that previously were opened to foreigners are now not..Country and people are beautiful, safest place to travel for a single female..
I would suggest for your first trip to SEA :1 day BKK, Nothern Thailand, side trip to Cambodia, Ko Samui if you must go to the beach( If your time is limited, skip it, there's always a nice beach in Carribean you can get to easily) If you fly Cathay , there's free stopover in HK on paid tkt, you'll need visa.
Your best resource for planning would be Lonely Planet Thorn Tree forum, any question you have will be answered there

I would suggest for your first trip to SEA :1 day BKK, Nothern Thailand, side trip to Cambodia, Ko Samui if you must go to the beach( If your time is limited, skip it, there's always a nice beach in Carribean you can get to easily) If you fly Cathay , there's free stopover in HK on paid tkt, you'll need visa.


According to the State Dept. US citizens do not require a visa for Hong Kong.

According to the State Dept. US citizens do not require a visa for Hong Kong.
You must be right, I thought I had some sort of transit visa from Chinese consulate in NY but I might be mistaken,or it might have changed since 8 years ago...

You must be right, I thought I had some sort of transit visa from Chinese consulate in NY but I might be mistaken,or it might have changed since 8 years ago...

You are definitely mistaken, and nothing has changed since 8 years ago.
1) Chinese Consulate in NY (or anywhere else) has NEVER had anything to do with Hong Kong immigration--HK has its own policies and is completely separate. 2) US citizens have never needed visas for transits through or relatively short tourist stays in HK. This also applies to nationals of many other countries around the world as well, with respect to HK entry.

One thing which you guys forgot is how well the Burmese speak English, I believe they speak better English than the rest of SEAsia. Secondly, as someone else has mentioned, the Burmese are very helpful which make things a bit easier.

+1000. And, there's no place on earth like Bagan especially at sunset (or sunrise from the hot air balloon). Period! You need to see that place before McDonald or Starbucks stores get there. I'd fly in for few days just to see that town and hang out with local folks.

Thank you for the advice so far. I think we have decided on Thailand with possibly a side trip to Siem Reap. I'm thinking 4 nights at the FS Bangkok, 4 in the FS Chiang Mai, 5 at Sarojin in Khao Lak. How should we fit Siem Reap into this? Or is that doing too much?

As first time travelers to SE Asia, you've come up with a good plan. If you add Siem Reap/Angkor Wat, you likely would want to go and return via Bangkok, although MH does offer same day service from Siem Reap to Phuket (your destination airport for Khao Lak) via Kuala Lumpur.

My strictly personal preference would be to stay at the Peninsula rather than FS in Bangkok. And Angkor Wat shouldn't be missed.

You can easily fit in Siem Reap. It's a non-stop flight from Bangkok (or a change of planes from Phuket via Bangkok). Allow three full days of touring (four nights). It's not just one temple, it's an ancient city of temples. Angor Wat wasn't even my favorite Wat (but it is mind-blowing nonetheless).

Four nights is plenty in Chiang Mai, you should plan on a day trip.

We had an exceptional trip to Burma this last year.



Sounds awesome. Is there a trip report somewhere, or a list of hotels that you loved/liked?

You are definitely mistaken, and nothing has changed since 8 years ago.
1) Chinese Consulate in NY (or anywhere else) has NEVER had anything to do with Hong Kong immigration--HK has its own policies and is completely separate. 2) US citizens have never needed visas for transits through or relatively short tourist stays in HK. This also applies to nationals of many other countries around the world as well, with respect to HK entry.
Even before the handover, USA citizens did not need a visa for HK.

There may have been a time when as a foreigner you needed special permission to go into the ? territories and near the border with mainland China; IIRC there were some health requirements (shots?) to go into the rural areaa of HK. I think it was possible then to do a day trip with trains into China, so there must have been a special Chinese visa for this.

I would recommend going to Myanmar now as it will be changing rapidly and there is a real opportunity to see the country before it gets totally westernised.

The tourst areas all have reasonably decent hotels, internet is now much more open than it was and again available in the main tourist areas (although the speed is still slow and it does go down a lot).

I would recommend that you make arrangements before you arrive. There are several travel agencies that will organise everything for you, including hotels, internal flights and english speaking tour guides. If you can afford it and want to go in style the Orient Express runs upmarket boat tours.

Could you list or recommend some of the travel agencies you're referring to?

Was in myanmar last year, experience was great, eveeryone we met sid this is not the country you read about in us papers. My two favorite countries woud be thailand and myanmar, i agree see it before it changes. Exotissimo handled everything for us, thailand you can make your own arrangments easily. Love the mandarim in bangkok and 4 seasons in chang mai