SkyTeam - How to cheaply do the following in J…or Y: ORD-JNB-BOM-JNB-ORD

Trying to figure out how to make best use of miles for a rather expensive trip. My sister needs to do the following in this order:

ORD-JNB-BOM-JNB-ORD. Technically it is MSN-LUN-BOM-LUN-MSN but we can work out buying short-haul flights to save some money or taking the bus for the US domestic flights.

We have US and DL miles and would be willing to buy miles in another program so am posting in ST, *A and oW. I don’t know if doing so is inappropriate so mods please feel free to combine the topics. If we could get two stopovers each way, that would be fine, but I haven’t been able to make that happen.
Using miles or buying tickets, does anyone else have any creative ideas?

DL permits an open jaw and a stopover on award tickets. Most programs would not permit two stopovers without charging more miles, in this case for two award tickets. However, if JNB isn't a legal routing for ORD-BOM (and I assume it isn't as it would violate MPM), you are probably looking at two award tickets anyway.

On SkyTeam (DL) there is no reason to go through ORD from MSN. In fact, doing so might result in having too many segments in your ticket. You probably want MSN-JFK or ATL, possibly through DTW or MSP if there aren't good non stops, through AMS/CDG if not nonstop to CPT/JNB, etc. JNB-BOM might work with Kenya (with some high fees) or back through AMS/CDG. An obvious connection might be DXB/DOH but I don't think there are SkyTeam partners flying there from JNB/CPT.

BA is the only carrier I can think of who won't turn this into multiple awards while following their rules (see closing thought), and that's simply because BA now happily prices everything by segment. (I guess NH might do something similarly, but this would drive their system bonkers in terms of miles required and you won't get the number of stopovers you want.)

I would look at using the DL miles for MSN/ORD-JNB-MSN/ORD using AF/KL. One reason to just use ORD is that you can probably score business class seats to Europe right out of ORD (depending on if the AF-operated ORD-CDG flight is running at your time of year). Otherwise, you'll need to get from MSN to an AF/KL gateway (unless you get ultra-lucky on finding DL space over the water out of MSP or DTW. Worth checking both. Anyway, once you get to Europe, AMS/CDG-JNB should be pretty easy (especially CDG-JNB since it's the A380). KL is resuming AMS-LUN today, so you might be able to get straight to LUN with DL miles. You'd also avoid paying the extra mileage DL charges for South Africa (as opposed to the bulk of the continent). If you can't get that flight, look at AMS-NBO and then tagging on KQ intra-African flights, which should have lower YQ. Just avoid KQ from Europe to Africa, as you'll have to pay the YQ.

Then use US miles to get the LUN/JNB-BOM, since you'd have SQ, SA, and ET (and LH and LX if willing to go all the way up to Europe to get to India). I've sampled some dates on united.com for JNB-BOM, and J inventory all the way doesn't look spectacular, but it will depend on your exact dates. (QR has nice inventory some days, but that won't work with US miles.) Flight times are all under 5 hours doing SA and ET, so maybe Y would be tolerable. (Of course, I'm not sure I'd be keen on connecting in some of the places that those routings would offer.) DL miles are not as good for JNB-BOM, as KQ flights will require paying YQ, and AF/KL will require getting up to CDG/AMS.

Closing thought: Construct a routing on *A and then call US and try to find an agent who thinks that JNB/LUN is somewhere in between MSN and BOM and doesn't realize it's way over the MPM. However, that's still only going to get you one stop in JNB/LUN, and if you really need two, you're going to need two awards.

My sister needs to do the following in this order: ORD-JNB-BOM-JNB-ORD. Technically it is MSN-LUN-BOM-LUN-MSN but we can work out buying short-haul flights to save some money or taking the bus for the US domestic flights.

Taking a bus in the US may be fine, but I wouldn't count on using short-haul flights in Africa to 'save some money' - for JNB-LUN return, you're looking at at least 3,600R (~$450) for the cheapest economy ticket - and of course, you'd need two of them. And if you're travelling on separate tickets, you'd have to leave much more connection time in JNB, to allow for the risk of a flight being late.
Also, while members of the global alliances (ie: KQ, SA, ET and MS) should be fine, some other airlines in the region may have questionable safety standards - see the EU Aviation Safety Blacklist (http://ec.europa.eu/transport/air-ban/doc/list_en.pdf) for more details (noting that all airlines certified by the authorities in Zambia are blacklisted...) So, I'd advise booking directly to/from LUN if at all possible, rather than going to JNB and getting a separate add-on.

In terms of the best routing on SkyTeam (as this is the SkyTeam Forum...), I would choose:

MSN-DL-DTW-DL-AMS-KL-LUN (dep MSN 18:28, arr LUN 22:05*), or:
ORD-KL-AMS-KL-LUN (dep ORD 16:10, arr LUN 22:05*)
(using KLM's new AMS-LUN service, as mentioned by mtkeller, although it only goes on Mo, We, Fr)
LUN-KQ-NBO-KQ-BOM (dep LUN 11:05 or 12:50 depending on day of week, arr BOM 02:10*)

And then the same routings in reverse for the return journey.

I think the ST schedule is comparable or better than what can be done on *A (using SA or ET for LUN-BOM). However, if you wanted to go via JNB, *A would let you do:
ORD-UA-LGA-SA-JNB-SA-LUN or ORD-LH-FRA-SA-JNB-SA-LUN


(Of course, I'm not sure I'd be keen on connecting in some of the places that those routings would offer.)

KQ requires a transfer in NBO; SA in JNB; and ET in ADD. NBO is certainly adequate as a transfer point (and the routing only requires 1-2hrs there, anyway). I haven't been to ADD or JNB recently, but AFAIK they're quite adequate as well. Personally, I would think any of these would be better than trekking 8-10hrs north to Europe, then 9hrs back over to BOM...


We have US and DL miles and would be willing to buy miles in another program ... If we could get two stopovers each way, that would be fine, but I haven’t been able to make that happen. Using miles or buying tickets, does anyone else have any creative ideas?
I don't have any great ideas for how to get this as one ticket (as MSPeconomist has said, LUN and even JNB probably aren't a legal routing for ORD-BOM, even if the programme would allow stopovers).

I suspect you're looking at two awards: one MSN (or ORD) to LUN return, and one LUN-BOM return. Of course, the advantage of structuring it like this is that you could book one on *A using US miles, and the other on ST using DL miles. And if you're spending time in LUN both ways, you don't need to worry about a misconnect between two entirely different tickets.

KQ requires a transfer in NBO; SA in JNB; and ET in ADD. NBO is certainly adequate as a transfer point (and the routing only requires 1-2hrs there, anyway). I haven't been to ADD or JNB recently, but AFAIK they're quite adequate as well. Personally, I would think any of these would be better than trekking 8-10hrs north to Europe, then 9hrs back over to BOM...


The UA engine was finding no JNB-ADD inventory (didn't try LUN-BOM), so it was doing things like JNB-HRE-ADD-BOM. JNB would not raise red flags at all, and ADD seemed acceptable if not ideal compared to some others. HRE, however...

I do agree that routing via Europe is not a stellar idea, and someone planning longish stops in Africa and India is probably not a sheltered American tourist who would be terribly uncomfortable in smaller African airports. The downside to DL miles to fly KQ is that there are fuel surcharges that aren't collected by US when on *A.