New York City - Ok critique this itinerary, whew (May 2012)

I'm a little overwhelmed but here are my plans. Would love to hear comments, suggestions, or any forseeable problems. First time visitor to NYC. Will have a full day there May 23 and again on May 30. I like the outdoors, birding, strolling, photographing viewpoints, some art stuff but really only modern and folk art, not old stuff...I am not adverse to pausing for the frosty adult beverage but I don't want to inflict too much harm on my liver. I don't shop. Well, I collect gems and minerals, but I don't buy any right now as my shelves are full. I only swap. So I wouldn't mind seeing a gem/mineral store but it would just be window shopping...

So on Wednesday, May 23, I plan to meet a lady at Central Park who gives birding tours. I will likely be coming from Forest Hills and need to meet the birding group at 7:30 AM sharp at 103rd St. and Central Park West. Sunrise is at 5:30 AM that morning. So I think I can walk to wherever the public transport is and get to the proper place easily in 2 hours. Correct? Maybe even have time to grab breakfast? Which reminds me of another question, in DC they did not allow eating and drinking on the Metro. Is this also true of NY?

So the morning will be spent birding the park and looking for spring warblers and I hope thrushes. Lunch ideas???

On the map I saw, the American Folk Art Museum at 2 Lincoln Square looks near the park. I would like to get there and see the Henry Darger exhibit and some other folk art pieces...Is a reasonable amount of his work available to view or do you have to be a scholar of some sort to see it?

Don't know what else. At some point I should head back and treat my host to dinner or a drink or something. Since it is Wednesday, I assume the rush hour is pretty bad to get out of Manhattan...

OK, now to May 30. Here I will be staying in Brooklyn, supposedly in walking distance of the Brooklyn Bridge. I would like to use this day to get some classic views if possible. Thus, I'm planning to walk across the Brooklyn Bridge. Would like to visit the High Line Park -- is the naughty hotel with the public sex in the window still there? Or have the cops cracked down on that sort of thing? I would also like to catch the Staten Island Ferry for the views of the Statue of Liberty and whatnot from the water.

Also on this day I believe is the second day of this year's Manhattanhenge, so I would like to be in place to try to nab a photo of this event.

I guess if the weather is bad, all bets are off, but I'm planning for the best at the moment. The well known museums and the like will always be available if it starts raining cats and dogs. The guide says a LIGHT rain won't cancel the bird tour so I like my chances there. I realize that even a light drizzle can spoil views so maybe I should try to catch one of the viewpoints on the 23rd? Then I have two different days, decently far apart, to chase views?

What do you think?

Excellent itinerary.

I don't shop.I love that. I think it's absurd that people travel to shop.

So I think I can walk to wherever the public transport is and get to the proper place easily in 2 hours. Correct? Maybe even have time to grab breakfast? Which reminds me of another question, in DC they did not allow eating and drinking on the Metro. Is this also true of NY?Two hours will be more than enough time to get to the park, and doing so at that hour is perfectly safe. Landing Gear, our NYC forum lawyer, will tell you that it is against the regulations of the MTA to eat or drink on the subway. I will tell you that the regulation is rarely enforced. (I have never seen it enforced, but believe others here have reported it being enforced.)

Since it is Wednesday, I assume the rush hour is pretty bad to get out of Manhattan...You'll be riding the subway, right? So you needn't worry too much about rush hour. The trains will be more crowded, but it's not a big deal.

OK, now to May 30. Here I will be staying in Brooklyn, supposedly in walking distance of the Brooklyn Bridge. I would like to use this day to get some classic views if possible. Thus, I'm planning to walk across the Brooklyn Bridge. Would like to visit the High Line Park -- is the naughty hotel with the public sex in the window still there? Or have the cops cracked down on that sort of thing? I would also like to catch the Staten Island Ferry for the views of the Statue of Liberty and whatnot from the water.All great ideas, and all worth doing. The Standard Hotel is still there. Not sure how often the sex shows are, though. Give it a shot; you might get lucky!

Agreed with Blumie on all points.

If you're interested in views, I'm a fan of Top of the Rock (more more than the Empire State Building). It's extremely touristy, but you can skip the lines by buying a timed ticket (it takes about 10-15 minutes to work your way through the various elevators to the top with a timed ticket) and the views on a clear day are truly amazing.

If you're staying near the Brooklyn Bridge and into birds, you may want to look for the Brooklyn Parrots--wild Quaker parrots that have colonized Green-Wood Cemetery, the Brooklyn College campus and other parts of Brooklyn (and lately the wider NYC area--I'm pretty sure I saw a bunch of them nesting in the power lines in Edgewater NJ a couple months ago). Here's a guide on where to see them in Downtown Brooklyn (http://www.brooklynparrots.com/2005/03/where-are-brooklyn-parrots.html).

If the weather is bad and you still want to see birds, I believe the American Museum of Natural History has a decent bird collection (http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent/birds/). Seeing them stuffed in a glass case may not be as much fun as seeing them in the wild, but might still be of interest. The fossil halls are pretty awesome too, and include skeletal models of Archaeopteryx, one of the earliest birds on record.

(Note: I'm just a general nerd and not a birder so I don't really know what makes birders tick. If these ideas are off base, my apologies.)

Here's some info from our time in NYC recently:

....for some specialized self-guided walking tours, here's a good website:


http://www.walkingoffthebigapple.com/p/ny-walks-by-area.html

It has a wide variety of walking tours, some related to modern art, such as: "Financial District: Downtown Beauty: Louise Nevelson and Jean Dubuffet"

When you walk across the Bkyn Bridge, note that the walkway is in the middle of the bridge (not the edge) if that affects your photo-taking.

The Brooklyn Heights Promendade/Park along the river also has great views across to Manhattan.

Friends went to that American Folk Art Museum were underwhelmed...do check if they are showing the artists you want.....

And if you're in Bklyn, and have an interest in feminist art history, the Bklyn Museum of Art has the original Judy Chicago "Dinner Party" installation.
www.brooklynmuseum.org/exhibitions/dinner_party/

The HighLine is hilarious for any of us from beyond NYC.....it is actually walking along elevated old railroad tracks with plantings of the wild flowers and weeds that would be be growing beside any abandoned railroad tracks on the ground outside MSY or OKC....it's only an "attraction" because it is elevated and in the concrete jungle of Manhattan!

enjoy--best wishes for your birding life list!

When you walk across the Bkyn Bridge, note that the walkway is in the middle of the bridge (not the edge) if that affects your photo-taking.While the Brooklyn Bridge walkway is in the middle, not at the edge, of the bridge, it's elevated above the roadway, so the views are not affected. Also, most view the walk from Brooklyn to Manhattan to be more scenic because most people are more interested in the Manhattan skyline than the Brooklyn.


The Brooklyn Heights Promendade/Park along the river also has great views across to Manhattan.Very true. Well worth the visit.


The HighLine is hilarious for any of us from beyond NYC.....it is actually walking along elevated old railroad tracks with plantings of the wild flowers and weeds that would be be growing beside any abandoned railroad tracks on the ground outside MSY or OKC....it's only an "attraction" because it is elevated and in the concrete jungle of Manhattan!Not sure I understand the points you are making here. The High Line is wonderful and an attraction because, well, it's wonderful. Certainly the wonder and beauty are a function, in part, of its past as an elevated railroad spur, and the wild flowers and weeds contribute to the genius redesign of the park, but New Yorkers and non-New Yorkers alike love the High Line for good reason.

Thanks, folks, this is very helpful! I have printed out the thread and now have more ideas than time. :-)

The Brooklyn Bridge has had construction on it for some time which can block the views. Just wanted to give the OP a heads-up. It is still a great bridge to walk!

I know it's illegal but I've eaten a bagel and had some coffee on the subway. That's the time I can grab breakfast and so far, knock on wood, I haven't been caught.

If you can go on the Highline when there are no crowds, you'll have a much more enjoyable experience IMHO. That you're not going on a weekend day is a plus.

is the naughty hotel with the public sex in the window still there?I don't know the answer to this but if you're interested in something VERY different, there is the Museum of Sex. http://www.museumofsex.com/

(I have never seen it enforced, but believe others here have reported it being enforced.)


I saw it enforced once. The lady was none too pleased. :)

Landing Gear, our NYC forum lawyer, will tell you that it is against the regulations of the MTA to eat or drink on the subway. I will tell you that the regulation is rarely enforced. (I have never seen it enforced, but believe others here have reported it being enforced.)

It's just public courtesy not to eat on public transport. There are very few developed countries that allow eating and drinking on urban public transport.

As an alternative to the Brooklyn Bridge you can walk the Manhattan Bridge which gives some great views of Downtown Manhattan too.

It's just public courtesy not to eat on public transport. There are very few developed countries that allow eating and drinking on urban public transport.

As an alternative to the Brooklyn Bridge you can walk the Manhattan Bridge which gives some great views of Downtown Manhattan too.

FWIW, Metro North and LIRR permit eating and drinking on their trains. I'm not sure that all the folks who enjoy a libation on the train home would agree with your position on "public courtesy".

It's just public courtesy not to eat on public transport.Making a statement sound emphatic by adding the word "just" ("It's just a public courtesy ...") doesn't make it so. Why is eating on pubic transportation per se discourteous?

FWIW, Metro North and LIRR permit eating and drinking on their trains. I'm not sure that all the folks who enjoy a libation on the train home would agree with your position on "public courtesy".

I don't count Metro-North or LIRR as urban. Subway, the city bus etc where the journey is around an hour and not lengthy commutes. Most developed countries have a no eating and drinking rule. "Just" because people don't like the rule doesn't mean they should flout it.

Making a statement sound emphatic by adding the word "just" ("It's just a public courtesy ...") doesn't make it so. Why is eating on pubic transportation per se discourteous?

I don't count Metro-North or LIRR as urban. Subway, the city bus etc where the journey is around an hour and not lengthy commutes. Most developed countries have a no eating and drinking rule. "Just" because people don't like the rule doesn't mean they should flout it.Ignoring the substance of my question does not, IMHO, enhance the credibility of your argument.

BTW, I just now saw somebody eating a bag of chips on the F train. It didn't bother me, and didn't appear to bother anyone around him. So long as he took his garbage with him and properly disposed of it, I have no problems with his decision to snack on the train. I'm sorry if this offends you.

It's just public courtesy not to eat on public transport. There are very few developed countries that allow eating and drinking on urban public transport.You'll frequently see someone eating or drinking on NYC public transit and no one bats an eye.

Here I'd say its not considered a public courtesy.

I don't count Metro-North or LIRR as urban. Subway, the city bus etc where the journey is around an hour and not lengthy commutes. Most developed countries have a no eating and drinking rule. "Just" because people don't like the rule doesn't mean they should flout it.

Hmmm...I take Metro North for 32 minutes and at least 20 of those minutes are in the boroughs of the Bronx and Manhattan. How does it get more "urban" than that? :confused:

Again, Metro North and LIRR (which, given that they start or end at Grand Central Terminal or Penn Station, most people would consider "urban") allow eating and drinking, so no one is "flouting" anything.

And you've yet to explain the problem with eating and drinking on public transportation.

Hmmm...I take Metro North for 32 minutes and at least 20 of those minutes are in the boroughs of the Bronx and Manhattan. How does it get more "urban" than that? :confused:


^ And I find the Metro North trains to be remarkably clean for the most part. Very little litter IME.

FWIW, Metro North and LIRR permit eating and drinking on their trains.You can add NJ Transit to that list.

Really? I've had people come by on public transport selling food and drink who appeared to be in the employ of the train/subway company. Maybe that was only in Europe though but the reason I singled out DC Metro was that, for me, the rule seemed very odd. However, I will bow to the rule now that I have been informed of its existence.

It's just public courtesy not to eat on public transport. There are very few developed countries that allow eating and drinking on urban public transport.

As an alternative to the Brooklyn Bridge you can walk the Manhattan Bridge which gives some great views of Downtown Manhattan too.

The OP can see birds and also test out eating on the subway and metro north by visiting the Bronx Botanical Gardens. ^

Two hours will be more than enough time to get to the park, and doing so at that hour is perfectly safe. Landing Gear, our NYC forum lawyer, will tell you that it is against the regulations of the MTA to eat or drink on the subway. I will tell you that the regulation is rarely enforced. (I have never seen it enforced, but believe others here have reported it being enforced.)

Counselor, there are at least two other lawyers in this thread alone and you are one of them. I therefore respectfully decline the honor you have bestowed upon me of "forum lawyer."

But considering the amount of "gotcha" enforcement of obscure NYCTA regulations that are written up from time to time in the Post and News, following the rules would not be such a bad idea.


The Standard Hotel is still there. Not sure how often the sex shows are, though. Give it a shot; you might get lucky!

So, what's your opinion of Disorderly Conduct, "Indecent Exposure," Public Lewdness, etc.?

I think there's a difference between eating on public transport and eating something that's noticably smelly/messy. Can't see a problem with somebody eating a chocolate bar but would not be happy if somebody was spilling street meat all over the place

Counselor, there are at least two other lawyers in this thread alone and you are one of them. I therefore respectfully decline the honor you have bestowed upon me of "forum lawyer."

But considering the amount of "gotcha" enforcement of obscure NYCTA regulations that are written up from time to time in the Post and News, following the rules would not be such a bad idea.




So, what's your opinion of Disorderly Conduct, "Indecent Exposure," Public Lewdness, etc.?I've heard stories of people having sex in the windows of the Standard. I have not heard stories of anything disorderly, indecent or lewd.

I am a firm believer in combining the widely accepted (albeit perhaps not by the NYPD or the courts) No-Harm-No-Foul exemption with the Don't-Get-Caught exemption. (For the record, although widely used, I do not believe in the latter if not combined with the former.)

^ And I find the Metro North trains to be remarkably clean for the most part. Very little litter IME.

Pretty true. I think the staff is pretty good about cleaning up the trains when they reach either end of the line. And riders do a pretty good job of policing themselves. An occassional coffee cup will spill, and folks leave newspapers behind sometimes, but I've never encountered any real "messes". Other than on St. Patrick's Day. :D

...it is against the regulations of the MTA to eat or drink on the subway. I will tell you that the regulation is rarely enforced. (I have never seen it enforced, but believe others here have reported it being enforced.)

Really? I thought so, too, in this thread from March, but found that that is apparently not the case:

Wait, I thought eating on the subway was not illegal (given that there's been some recent attempts in Albany to ban just that).

I couldn't find anything online about it, but was sure I had seen signs in the past. However, it seems that you are correct - there is, in fact, no ban on eating on the subway (or presumably bus). :o

NYTimes: Rats or Not, Transit Chief Opposes Ban on Eating in the Subways (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/14/nyregion/mta-chief-opposes-ban-on-eating-in-the-subways.html)

Perhaps I saw it in DC. Also explains why the incident a few weeks ago was the first time I'd seen the (non)-rule enforced!

IMHO, so long as women feel free to apply their makeup, do their nails, etc. on my morning commute, I feel free to have a coffee and a bagel.

It just seems fair. ;)

I've heard stories of people having sex in the windows of the Standard. I have not heard stories of anything disorderly, indecent or lewd.

I am a firm believer in combining the widely accepted (albeit perhaps not by the NYPD or the courts) No-Harm-No-Foul exemption with the Don't-Get-Caught exemption. (For the record, although widely used, I do not believe in the latter if not combined with the former.)

Ha ha. Sounds like something out of the Brafman play book.

The NYPD seems to file multiple charges for the same act. The three I mentioned seemed the most likely in the event they ever arrest someone for "window activity" at the Standard or any other hotel.

As the OP is interested in birds - and while its been a good 20 years since last I have been consider the "World of Birds" exhibit at the Bronx Zoo:

The Bronx Zoo's World of Birds, a two-story bird house completed in 1972, is a huge, landscaped, indoor free-flight exhibit. The one-way flow pattern in the exhibit moves the visitors through twenty-five birds habitats, ranging from desert to tropical forest. Each setting recreates with impressive fidelity the microculture of the birds that fly merrily about within their diorama world, complete with living plants. Five of the aviaries are completely open: in two of the largest the uncaged public walks through the habitat with birds freely overhead

From 103rd and Central Park West (if your bird walk starts and ends in same place) - make your way to 103 street and Broadway (short walk) - take the 1 train Downtown direction one stop to 96 street - go upstairs and back downstairs to change for the 2 train UPTOWN - take this to East 180 street I think (please double check) - this will only take you about 30 minutes and you will be at the Bronx Zoo.

Before heading up to the Zoo (or even if you dont go to zoo) as you are "in the area) go to 112th street and Amsterdam to The Cathedral of St John The Devine - it's one of the most beautiful Cathedrals anywhere in the world - there was some fire damage a few years ago where some of the inside could not be visited - I am unsure if this has been fixed or not.


For some nice views - you can go to top of Marriott Hotel in Times square - there is a revolving restaurant. Grab a drink and enjoy.

Ofcourse - Top of the Rock is fabulous - you can buy a "dual ticket" that allows you 2 seperate admissions - one at day and one at night.