Spain/Portugal/Gibraltar - Seeking Advice on first trip to Spain

I have been doing some research and have come up with a tentative itinerary for a week-long trip to spain with my wife. I would love to hear any input on changing big plans or hotel/restaurant/sights to see.

The trip is relatively short and packed with destinations but I don't know another way to see everything we want to see in our limited time. For reference, we are under 30 and comfortable traveling at a relatively fast pace.

Monday, June 4
Arrive in Barcelona in the middle of the day. Check into Hotel Granados 83.

Tuesday, June 5
Tour Barcelona, either via on-off bus or renting a Vespa

Wednesday, June 6
Pick up rental car, drive to Alicante, with a stop in Benidorm on the way for a few hours on the beach.

Thursday, June 7
Drive to Marbella or Gibraltar, with a stop in Grenada to tour Alhambra.

Friday, June 8
Day trip to Morocco, then drive to Seville for the night.

Saturday, June 9
Explore Seville

Sunday, June 10
Drive to Madrid, see Sunday night bullfight.

Monday, June 11
Fly home.

The only things that don't seem to be able to be changed are the flights. We are flexible with everything else. I understand it's a few days of 5 hour drives but I am assuming that will be a good way to see the country/coast. Also, I need help on how to buy tickets to the bullfight, if this needs to be done in advance. Again, ANY advice is welcome.

Wow, this seems to be Spain week on FT.

You say you're comfortable traveling at a fast pace, but I'd really suggest you consider trying to cram fewer destinations into your trip. Spain has so many amazing places to explore, and it truly sounds as if you'll be spending most of your time driving, with only a limited opportunity to get to know the country.

I would say that Barcelona on its own is worth at least 3-4 days. That gives you time to explore the old Gothic quarter, visit the Gaudí buildings, roam around Parc Guell, sample the restaurants and nightlife....

Also, just out of curiosity - why Marbella, Alicante and Gibraltar? I'd say those places are skippable, particularly on your first trip to the country. Perhaps spend more time in Granada and/or give yourself some time in Córdoba. That's one of my favorite cities in Andalucía, actually.

And when you say "day trip to Morocco," what does that mean exactly? Where would you be going, and why? I'd suggest skipping that entirely and saving yourselves the schlep. You can hit Morocco on the next trip.

I would also say that Madrid, while not necessarily the most breathtaking part of Spain, is worth at least a full day if for no other reason than the art museums (conveniently located in very close proximity) are treasures.

Wow, this seems to be Spain week on FT.

You say you're comfortable traveling at a fast pace, but I'd really suggest you consider trying to cram fewer destinations into your trip. Spain has so many amazing places to explore, and it truly sounds as if you'll be spending most of your time driving, with only a limited opportunity to get to know the country.

I would say that Barcelona on its own is worth at least 3-4 days. That gives you time to explore the old Gothic quarter, visit the Gaudí buildings, roam around Parc Guell, sample the restaurants and nightlife....

Also, just out of curiosity - why Marbella, Alicante and Gibraltar? I'd say those places are skippable, particularly on your first trip to the country. Perhaps spend more time in Granada and/or give yourself some time in Córdoba. That's one of my favorite cities in Andalucía, actually.

And when you say "day trip to Morocco," what does that mean exactly? Where would you be going, and why? I'd suggest skipping that entirely and saving yourselves the schlep. You can hit Morocco on the next trip.

I would also say that Madrid, while not necessarily the most breathtaking part of Spain, is worth at least a full day if for no other reason than the art museums (conveniently located in very close proximity) are treasures.

Thanks for the advice, I guess I need help figuring out what cant be missed and what can. I should have mentioned that I mainly chose Marbella, Alicante, and Gibraltar as good geographic locations to split the driving, but perhaps that wasn't a very wise decision.

Assuming I'm flying into Barcelone and out of Madrid, can you think of a fundamentally better way to structure the trip?

Assuming I'm flying into Barcelone and out of Madrid, can you think of a fundamentally better way to structure the trip?

rent a helicopter, then you can see even more places, and check them off your been there done that list.

we spent 10 days in barcelona. seemed about right.

While I understand your desire to see as much of the country as possible, I suggest splitting your time between Barcelona and Madrid. If you insist on driving, spend a couple of nights somewhere in between. Not sure how you like to spend your vacations, but I hate the thought of spending so much time in a car when there are great buildings, museums, tapas, paella and wine awaiting. How about Barcelona, Valencia and Madrid?

Thanks for the advice, I guess I need help figuring out what cant be missed and what can. I should have mentioned that I mainly chose Marbella, Alicante, and Gibraltar as good geographic locations to split the driving, but perhaps that wasn't a very wise decision.

Assuming I'm flying into Barcelone and out of Madrid, can you think of a fundamentally better way to structure the trip?

In the first place, I would actually suggest taking trains around the country rather than driving. You don't say if you speak Spanish (or another local language), but assuming you don't, and since you've never been in Spain before, driving all over is just sort of asking for trouble - getting lost, ending up stuck in detours and the like. The train will be far more relaxing, and also probably less expensive. as you can get good-value railpasses before leaving the US - check the raileurope website. Also, since Spain has high-speed rail (AVE), you might find it's a time-saver as well.

As for destinations, are you trying to see a whole lot of different regions? More interested in big cities, or would medieval small towns be of interest as well? Any must-sees or special interests you and your wife have?

I'd say you should definitely luxuriate in Barcelona for a while, and while you're there you can also get some beach time in, either in the city itself or an easy train ride away (Sitges is a beautiful, old-timey beach resort very close to Barcelona - you could do it as a day trip or stay a night.)

I'd give yourself at least one full day, maybe two, in Madrid. The art museums (Prado, Reina Sofía, Thyssen-Bornemisza) are outstanding. Perhaps budget an hour or two at each to see the highlights, and if you get museum-ed out you can walk a couple of blocks to the Retiro park and enjoy the beauty.

Between those two endpoints, there are lots of options, but if you want to add a third region I'd choose just one city so you can spend at least a bit of time there and get a feel for the place. Andalucía is beautiful - Granada, Sevilla, Córdoba are all charming cities in their own way. Keep in mind though that it might be quite hot in the south during June.

Another option would be the Basque Country. San Sebastián combines beach, architecture, and delicious, delicious food, and Bilbao has the Gehry museum. It'll also be a bit cooler weather-wise than down south.

You could easily do Barcelona & environs -> Basque Country -> Madrid or BCN -> Andalucía -> MAD in the time frame you have without completely knocking yourselves out.

Regardless of where you go, just assume you'll be enthralled with the country and will want to go back again and again. :D

I understand it's a few days of 5 hour drives but I am assuming that will be a good way to see the country/coast.

As others have said - you are almost certainly trying to do far too much.

I'm not sure that the drives would contribute much to see the country. They could in some places, but not in others.

Having said you are doing too much, I will just touch on your two ideas for side trips outisde Spain: Gibraltar and Morocco.
If you were not so pushed for time I would say if you are anywhere near by DO visit Gibraltar, certainly worth the effort if near by and - becuse it is a small place - you can see it mostly in a day trip.
But ideally this means arriving in the morning or mid morning (not lunch time / midday!) and staying till late afternoon - you can't do it justice in 3 hours from arrival to departure (which is what some bus tour groups from Spain attempt). But you could certainly see it properly in 5/6 hours or more.

Morocco, as a day trip you will not see much of the country, but you might get a breif taste of somewhere. I'd consider doing this as an organised tour if you don't know what you are doing - or if your hire car does not allow you to take it to Affrica. [Most will allow you to take them across Iberia (so Gibraltar or Portugal should be fine.]
Having said 'tick the boxes' is generally frowned upon, if it is unlikely you will be back in Affrica any time soon, I can see why people sometimes do just want to set foot on it when so near - and I'm sure you know it would only be the breifest of visits.

This takes us on to Visas: I don't know your passport situation, but if you need a Visa for Spain, do check that it allows multiple entries to the Schengen area, so when you leave Spain to go to Gibraltar and Morocco you will be leaving the Schengen area.

But you don't have much time. Unless you want the most breifest of sightseeing whistlestops.

Give yourself longer in the places, with less driving. Cut a place or two, but it would be wrong to suggest what. You know what is most improtant for you.

As others have said - you are almost certainly trying to do far too much.

I'm not sure that the drives would contribute much to see the country. They could in some places, but not in others.


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Give yourself longer in the places, with less driving. Cut a place or two, but it would be wrong to suggest what. You know what is most improtant for you.


Agree with this. Been to Madrid a few times and just spent 4 nights in BCN back in February. Both great cities with tons to see/do. I'd stick with those two and keep the other sites for next time.

If it was me, I'd stay in BCN til Thursday night or Friday am (depending on train schedules) and then take a train to MAD and spend the rest of my time in MAD. Or, on the off chance you feel like you've seen it all in BCN by Thursday, then head to Alicante for a night before you hit MAD.

You say you're comfortable traveling at a fast pace, but I'd really suggest you consider trying to cram fewer destinations into your trip. Spain has so many amazing places to explore, and it truly sounds as if you'll be spending most of your time driving, with only a limited opportunity to get to know the country.

I would say that Barcelona on its own is worth at least 3-4 days. That gives you time to explore the old Gothic quarter, visit the Gaudí buildings, roam around Parc Guell, sample the restaurants and nightlife....



Agreed. We spent 5 days in MAD and a week in BCN. It's a vacation. Slow down and enjoy your destination.

dh

That is a lot of driving. A lot.

Alhambra is definitely worth the visit but to see it right and appreciate it, plan on at least 3-4 hours there. Also you should know that the tickets are only valid for a certain entry time and must be bought in advance (ok, you could show up when they open in the morning and hope to get some of those tickets but do not count on that).

I presume that you are doing either the Algeciras or Tarifa ferry to Tangier. Tangier is an "interesting" place. The Medina is a short walk from the ferry so unless you feel like wasting money, you do not need a cab. Be prepared to be hounded by everyone to buy stuff so get used to saying NO firmly. As soon as you get off the ferry, there will be a literal swarm of men offering you their guide services -- when we went we turned them down because we wanted to explore on our own and I am glad we did; however, next time we go we will get a guide just so we can ask him about the culture and to help us locate some specialty shops. If you opt for a guide, expect to pay $20 or so for him for the day but also expect him to steer you towards the establishments that give him a commission for your business. Oh, if you want to see something interesting, go to the Tangier American Legation Museum -- it is the only U.S. historical site located non-U.S. soil. And finally, with regards to Tangier, the Lonely Planet guide kinda sucks.

Word of advice regarding navigation: even if you use a GPS, buy a Spain road atlas. We updated our Spain map before heading there and the maps were so up to date that it thought that the big highway under construction going to Coasta del Sol was complete. It wasn't.

While I understand your desire to see as much of the country as possible, I suggest splitting your time between Barcelona and Madrid. If you insist on driving, spend a couple of nights somewhere in between. Not sure how you like to spend your vacations, but I hate the thought of spending so much time in a car when there are great buildings, museums, tapas, paella and wine awaiting. How about Barcelona, Valencia and Madrid?

+1

Over Easter, I did a 6 day trip Barcelona->Valencia->Madrid with gf (both of us under 30) with 3 days in Barcelona, 1 day in Valencia, 2 days Madrid. We like to move at a fast pace as well and I felt that this trip was paced perfectly.

day 1. ramblas, barri gotic
day 2. sagrada familia, parc guell
day 3. montjuic, bike along beaches

day 4. walk in old city center, go to beach (fantastic sand!)

day 5. museums/walk around city.
day 6. museums.

I love Barcelona, it's my favorite city to visit in Europe. Valencia had a nice feel to it. Madrid has museums.

We took trains between the city pairs. We got discounts by buying them online.

You may want to get a PAYG sim card to get internet access for smartphone. Bought one at carrefour on first day for 10euros.

Whatever you do, avoid Benidorm. The coast has been ruined here with many cheapish high rise buildings that seem to be mostly condos for retired or vacationing Brits. There are many lovely places in Spain, including some fishing and beach towns, but Benidorm definitely isn't one of them.

Thanks for all the great advice. I really appreciate it and am going to re-evaluate the plan. Keep it coming please.

Thanks for all the great advice. I really appreciate it and am going to re-evaluate the plan. Keep it coming please.

Why don't you tell us some more about the goals you have for your trip, the kinds of things you and your wife would like to see/do, and we can give you some more tailored advice?

Also, feel free to PM me if it's easier.

I'm 2/3 through my spur of the moment Spain trip. In Madrid now. One thing I did reasonably well was strategize travel. Could have burned a better day on my 4.5 hour Granada to Madrid leg, but it was a rest half day. Here's what I did, and my suggestion is in line with the others above: You are missing some great things trying to drive around all this. I liked the proximity of Africa and thought about Tangier. Then I decided there was too much to see in Spain to burn that much time on ferries, in line for ferries, etc.

Your route goes by at least two world class UNESCO heritage sites, one of which was a finalist for the 7 wonders of the world thing a few years ago -- The Alhambra in Granada. If you book your ticket late, you wont get in -- I had to buy the Granada Card online (not a bad deal) -- they have their own time slots when the main booking site closes. The other UNESCO site is on the way form Sevilla to Madrid -- the Mosque at Cordoba. You're also missing Toledo on the way north to Madrid, another UNESCO site worth the better part of a day.

What I ended up doing ( a bit different from my plan) just to show you what is possible:

1) Landed in Madrid, bus to Atocha, train to Cordoba - in by noon. Saw the great Mosque/Cathedral. Synagogue was closed for 3 days. Overnight Cordoba.
2)Train to Granada, toured around.
3)Alhambra. Worth the plane ride to Spain by itself.
4)Train to Madrid, early evening quickie to the Escorial (bus form a metro station called Moncloa, didnt run as often as the tourist misinformation booth lady thought)
5)Day trip to Toledo
6)Segovia in the morning, Modern art museum in the afternoon (2 hours ago. they were out of museum maps. argh)
7)Prado and Thyssen museums.

I'm happy I skipped Sevilla, which I planed to hit on the way from Cordoba to Granada. I was too tired. Now I've seen enough Cathedrals for one trip. If you have stamina, it could be added leaving luggage at the train station.

I would NOT come to Spain and run around like mad missing UNESCO World heritage sites while tooling around the countryside. The combination of Jewish, Christian, and Muslim influences here is amazing.

1) Landed in Madrid, bus to Atocha, train to Cordoba - in by noon. Saw the great Mosque/Cathedral. Synagogue was closed for 3 days. Overnight Cordoba.
2)Train to Granada, toured around.
3)Alhambra. Worth the plane ride to Spain by itself.
4)Train to Madrid, early evening quickie to the Escorial (bus form a metro station called Moncloa, didnt run as often as the tourist misinformation booth lady thought)
5)Day trip to Toledo
6)Segovia in the morning, Modern art museum in the afternoon (2 hours ago. they were out of museum maps. argh)
7)Prado and Thyssen museums.

Excellent advice here. As I mentioned before, Córdoba is one of my favorite cities in Spain. I simply crush on the white buildings and the orange trees.

Also, I second the recommendation of Toledo and Segovia (and also possibly Avila). Toledo is one of Spain's biggest gems - the former capital and one of the cultural meccas of the medieval world. I can't believe I forgot to mention it!

Ludocdoc, when you say you had to buy a card online for the Alhambra, does that mean they now have advance purchase requirements and you can't just show up in the morning and enter? That would be good info to know! I was there years ago and remember just showing up, paying my entry fee, and going in - although that was in spring (not peak summer season.) I also remember it being relatively uncrowded - but that was a long, long time ago... :(

Ludocdoc, when you say you had to buy a card online for the Alhambra, does that mean they now have advance purchase requirements and you can't just show up in the morning and enter? That would be good info to know! I was there years ago and remember just showing up, paying my entry fee, and going in - although that was in spring (not peak summer season.) I also remember it being relatively uncrowded - but that was a long, long time ago... :(

You MUST book the Alhambra in advance. In theory, you can get in with a same day ticket -- but you'd have to line up crazy early, and who knows how many they sell and when they run out. For me, this was the focus of the trip. To chance missing it on "I hope they have more than xx tickets because I'm number yy in line..." nope

Google the sites for the main tickets and the granada card... I dont have em anymore, or Rick Steves guide is pretty good.

There is a main Alhambra website that offers tickets. The key thing you must reserve is the Palacios Nazaries. The other 2 things to see are the Alcazaba and the Generalife gardens. You get all 3 with the main entry ticket, or you can make a mistake and buy tix for only the other 2 and not the Nasrid palaces (English/Spanish) -- these are the core of the attraction. The tickets are morning or afternoon -8:30 till.. I dont remember, and 14:00 (maybe 14:30) on. If you have a morning time for the Nazaries, you can enter all 3 any time in the morning, but not after 14:30 (might be 14:00, sorry). Once you're in a site, you can stay all you like, even past 2 if you're a morning ticket holder. However, you get one Alcazaba entry, and your Nasrid entry is precisely the time on your ticket. I was able to leave and re-enter the Genralife gardens. All 3 entries must be in the half day that contains your Nasrid entry. So if you have a 11am Nazaries and hit the alcazaba first, but dont leave the Nazaries till 3pm (yikes, what are you sketching it?), you cant get into Generalife with your ticket. Make sense? Ditto the afternoon -- if you have a 6pm Nazares entry, you can enter the other 2 any time after 14:00 (or :30, whatever it is). The Nasrid Palace took me about an hour and a half, with time to linger. You could burn through it in 45 minutes, more than 2 or 2.5 hours would be a bit much I think. If you cant get a ticket, they open the place at night, which reportedly does not sell out, for a separate ticket. Less of the Palace is viewable.

This also means that if you have a, say , 13:00 Nasrid entry time, and you plan to drive in from somewhere else, you might not get to see all 3 main areas. The time on your Nasrid entry is not flexible (they are strict) and it defines if you have a morning or afternoon visit. So if you arrive at noon for your 13:00 entry, and spend 1.5 hours in the site, your ticket is expired. The Generalife/Alcazaba tix probably dont sell out, but you'd have t pay twice, plus the wasted hike (not trivial) up to the ticket area and back.

When I booked, about 10 days in advance (USAIR discount flight), the only Nazaries entries available were 18:30 each day, some had zero availability. I wanted morning. So I found the Granada card website -- you book and pay online, and they have their own reserved entries -- 300 a day or something -- and there was plenty of morning availability. I went at 8:30. I arrived about 8:05 and there were 5 people ahead of me in line. Three got booted as they had accidentally booked Alcazaba/Generalife tickets with no Nazaries entry. Don't let that be you! They were SOL. Thus, I was third in, and managed a picture of the famous Courtyard of the Myrtles with no polluting tourists.

You MUST book the Alhambra in advance. In theory, you can get in with a same day ticket -- but you'd have to line up crazy early, and who knows how many they sell and when they run out. For me, this was the focus of the trip. To chance missing it on "I hope they have more than xx tickets because I'm number yy in line..." nope

Google the sites for the main tickets and the granada card... I dont have em anymore, or Rick Steves guide is pretty good.

There is a main Alhambra website that offers tickets. The key thing you must reserve is the Palacios Nazaries. The other 2 things to see are the Alcazaba and the Generalife gardens. You get all 3 with the main entry ticket, or you can make a mistake and buy tix for only the other 2 and not the Nasrid palaces (English/Spanish) -- these are the core of the attraction. The tickets are morning or afternoon -8:30 till.. I dont remember, and 14:00 (maybe 14:30) on. If you have a morning time for the Nazaries, you can enter all 3 any time in the morning, but not after 14:30 (might be 14:00, sorry). Once you're in, you can stay -- all 3 sites, but there are different entries for each. So if you have a 10am Nazaries and hit the alcazaba first, but dont leave the Nazaries till 3pm, you cant get into Generalife with your ticket. Make sense? Ditto the afternoon -- if you have a 6pm Nazares entry, you can enter the other 2 any time after 14:00 (or :30, whatever it is). The Nasrid Palace took about an hour and a half, with time to linger. You could burn through it in 45 minutes, more than 2 or 2.5 hours would be a bit much I think. If you cant get a ticket, they open the place at night, which reportedly does not sell out, for a separate ticket. Less of the Palace is viewable.

This also means that if you have a, say , 13:00 Nasrid entry time, and you plan to drive in from somewhere else, you might not get to see all 3 main areas. The time on your Nasrid entry is not flexible (they are strict) and it defines if you have a morning or afternoon visit. So if you arrive at noon for your 13:00 entry, and spend 1.5 hours in the site, your ticket is expired. The Generalife/Alcazaba tix probably dont sell out, but you'd have t pay twice, plus the wasted hike (not trivial) up to the ticket area and back.

When I booked, about 10 days in advance (USAIR discount flight), the only Nazaries entries available were 18:30 each day, some had zero availability. I wanted morning. So I found the Granada card website -- you book and pay online, and they have their own reserved entries -- 300 a day or something -- and there was plenty of morning availability. I went at 8:30. I arrived about 8:05 and there were 5 people ahead of me in line. Three got booted as they had accidentally booked Alcazaba/Generalife tickets with no Nazaries entry. Don't let that be you! They were SOL. Thus, I was third in, and managed a picture of the famous Courtyard of the Myrtles with no polluting tourists.

Wow - awesome for you! I can't believe things have become that crowded and competitive, but I guess it shouldn't surprise me too much given the insane numbers of tourists that I see everywhere in Spain. I remember in the late 80s/early 90s being the only foreigner around most of the time - even in Madrid! - and that was back in the day when Spain was actually a relatively inexpensive country for travelers.

Thanks for the tip on Alhambra logistics. I'm vaguely mulling over the idea of a trip to Spain sometime over the next year or so (perhaps after they abandon the euro ;)), and I would frankly never have thought to check into entry procedures for the Alhambra. I would have just assumed I could show up early in the morning and waltz in, because that's what I did 20 years ago - apparently that's not a good plan!

Wow - awesome for you! I can't believe things have become that crowded and competitive, but I guess it shouldn't surprise me too much given the insane numbers of tourists that I see everywhere in Spain. I remember in the late 80s/early 90s being the only foreigner around most of the time - even in Madrid! - and that was back in the day when Spain was actually a relatively inexpensive country for travelers.

Thanks for the tip on Alhambra logistics. I'm vaguely mulling over the idea of a trip to Spain sometime over the next year or so (perhaps after they abandon the euro ;)), and I would frankly never have thought to check into entry procedures for the Alhambra. I would have just assumed I could show up early in the morning and waltz in, because that's what I did 20 years ago - apparently that's not a good plan!

Alhambra tix surely sell out. The Granada card was a lifesaver.

Toledo day trips are easy on the fast trains, but those tix sell out also -- the VERY SLOW renfe ticket office has a sign which they sometimes update stating when the next available tix for the Toledo departures are. When I arrived form Granada, I chose to get the next days toledo tix. Took almost an hour, from 2pm to 3pm, during which the sign said "Next available train to Toledo: 13:30." Anyway, accurate or not, buy your Toledo tickets in advance too!

Unfortunately, the medium and long distance Renfe ticket machines dont speak English, so I had to wait in line -- I couldnt decipher the Spanish well enough. Who knows if they would have taken my non-chip US credit card anyway. They did at the ticket counter. It's only been rejected once, at the Reina Sofia Museum earlier today. Metro tix machines have an English button, fortunately.

Maybe I should compile this into a trip report...

I would add it is already scorching hot here in Seville. 39 C (102F) today and no relief seen for the next five days, and won't end until, oh, September.