Credit Card Programs - Andrews FCU Chip & PIN card application process & usage reports

The nation’s largest CUSO, PSCU Financial Services will be offering EMV Chip+PIN to it’s 680 credit union base. First off will be Andrews Federal CU of Suitland, MD

Andrews FCU, PSCU Financial Services Team Up to Offer EMV Chip/PIN Plastics for International Use (http://www.pscufs.com/pages/news-events/press-releases/andrews-fcu-pscu-financial-services-team-offer-emv-chippin-plastics)


[edit 2012/5/11]

The application process for getting the Andrews FCU Globetrek Rewards Chip-and-PIN card can be long and may seem redundant for first time applicants.

But please bear mind in mind, corporate road warriors and Joe Backpackers aren't really their main client base. As such, it is understandable how Andrews FCU will be asking for so much from first time credit card applicants who are not their usual clientele.

As a credit union, their main objective is to keep credit union members happy by paying out dividends into their members' savings accounts. Their Chip-and-PIN Globetrek Rewards card is a by-product of what their credit union members wanted. Please keep that in mind.

Hence, if you really want to appreciate thanks to Andrews FCU for providing the only Chip-and-PIN card that's openly available to any Americans, the good thing to do would actually start using their Andrews FCU savings account rather than just leaving it with the initial minimum deposit of $5 which is a part of their application process to join Andrews FCU.

In all honesty, a savings account with Andrews FCU that has no maintenance fees and earns interest in forms of dividends is not a bad deal. Once you join Andrews FCU, you are a member of that credit union. You are entitled to the annual dividends based on the amount that you put into the savings account. The $5 that you just put into Andrews FCU is not a fee; it is a savings account that will earn dividends.

Even scheduling a direct deposit of $1 from your paycheck or transferring $100 from your existing savings account at your bank to the Andrews FCU savings would go a long way to actually helping both you and your fellow credit union members at Andrews FCU.

Eventually, the amount that you start putting into the Andrews FCU savings account may even end up helping Andrews FCU to get the funds necessary to streamline the Globetrek application process.

So please, on good faith, I would advise FTers interested in applying for the Globetrek Rewards Chip-and-PIN card to actually start utilizing their savings account in any way possible.

Added Andrews Federal Credit Union (http://www.andrewsfcu.org/media/doc/201109_Andrews_Federal_Launches_New_VISA_Card_with _EMV_Technology_FINAL_2.pdf), a credit union based in Suitland, MD.

This one could be the best credit union as of today with $0 annual fee with low 1% forex fee (only what VISA charges), full Chip-and-PIN with rewards, with very eased membership qualifications.

Once you've joined, you'll need to migrate over to the Military & Europe page on their website, and then look for the link to the GlobalTrek Visa Rewards card --- that's the card with Chip & Pin.

First off, I want to say this thread was very helpful. I was able to find a suitable chip-and-PIN offering (Andrews FCU) for a trip to Germany later this year.

The application process was a bit long (it shows these smaller credit unions still do old fashioned loan approvals) but here is what I did.

1. Joined the American Consumer Council (no cost)
2. Signed up for membership and mailed in the associated signature card
3. Submitted the application for the GlobeTrek Visa (they do not readily advertise the card but you can specify you want GlobeTrek when you start the application).
4. I received a call the next day asking to fax over a paystub.
5. A few hours later, I received an e-mail asking me to electronically sign loan documents (these documents appeared to be for conventional loans but the product listed was the Visa card). This was done online and took 2 minutes.
6. The next day, I received another phone call asking me to fax over a letter specifying a phone password, as well as 2 forms of ID with my signature.
7. About 10 days later, I received my chip-and-PIN card. The PIN came separately 5 days later.

I am going to try my card at Wal-Mart, although from the recent article, not all stores are set up (sounds like mainly stores where international travel is high are set up).

First off, I want to say this thread was very helpful. I was able to find a suitable chip-and-PIN offering (Andrews FCU) for a trip to Germany later this year.

The application process was a bit long (it shows these smaller credit unions still do old fashioned loan approvals) but here is what I did.

1. Joined the American Consumer Council (no cost)
2. Signed up for membership and mailed in the associated signature card
3. Submitted the application for the GlobeTrek Visa (they do not readily advertise the card but you can specify you want GlobeTrek when you start the application).
4. I received a call the next day asking to fax over a paystub.
5. A few hours later, I received an e-mail asking me to electronically sign loan documents (these documents appeared to be for conventional loans but the product listed was the Visa card). This was done online and took 2 minutes.
6. The next day, I received another phone call asking me to fax over a letter specifying a phone password, as well as 2 forms of ID with my signature.
7. About 10 days later, I received my chip-and-PIN card. The PIN came separately 5 days later.

I am going to try my card at Wal-Mart, although from the recent article, not all stores are set up (sounds like mainly stores where international travel is high are set up).

And it looks like their forex fee is 1%. With no annual fee, this is probably the best chip card, and since it has a PIN, likely the best card I have seen yet. I am still waiting for CapitalOne to get "in the game". Probably not in time for my March trip, though.

Dan

First off, I want to say this thread was very helpful. I was able to find a suitable chip-and-PIN offering (Andrews FCU) for a trip to Germany later this year.

Thanks for the heads up on getting the Andrews FCU GlobeTrek Rewards card. I agree, with 1% forex fee and $0 annual fee that earns rewards, with full Chip-and-PIN capability this is the best card out yet that Americans can get without being a multi-millionaire or being subjected to restricted membership qualifications.

If more people start getting this, perhaps the bigger banks will start to notice.

And it looks like their forex fee is 1%. With no annual fee, this is probably the best chip card, and since it has a PIN, likely the best card I have seen yet. I am still waiting for CapitalOne to get "in the game". Probably not in time for my March trip, though.

Dan

Yes it was the best deal of any of them. I have a CapOne card that I will bring as well, which will be the first card I try. The Andrews card will be a backup and for any automated pay stations.

There is a website off the beaten path, which I forgot about in my original post. Again, it is not linked off the homepage.

http://www.andrewsfcu.org/globetrek

I am intrigued by the Andrews FCU option to obtain a chip and pin credit card. Has anyone here gone this route? What was your time frame from credit union membership acceptance to credit card account approval and receiving the chip and pin card?

but just short of perfection because it has an annual fee so the ideal credit card...

1. emv chip (chip and pin preferable to chip and signature as apparently some places still don't take chip and signature but take chip and pin but this is not a deal killer).

2. no annual fee

3. no foreign transaction fee

4. rewards..

Still think trhe perfect card doesn't yet exist.

The Andrews FCU GlobeTrek Rewards Card is probably the closest one to what you want as of today as it comes with:

1. Full Chip-and-PIN
2. No annual fee
3. 1% forex fee (only what VISA charges)
4. Rewards

At 1% forex rate, the ROI will be charging $9500 or more abroad versus the next competitor which is the $95 annual fee but with no forex JP Morgan Select Card.

MASTERNC was able to provide a detailed view on obtaining the card in post #641 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18032807-post641.html)

The Andrews FCU GlobeTrek Rewards Card is probably the closest one to what you want as of today as it comes with:

1. Full Chip-and-PIN
2. No annual fee
3. 1% forex fee (only what VISA charges)
4. Rewards



That's rather interesting. I'd be interested in checking out this card.

That said, I'm really having a hard time understanding the big desire for chip & PIN cards. I travel all over the world, including Canada and Europe, quite regularly, and I've never really had a problem using my regular old mag-stripe cards from the US. Once I tried to use my card at a cafe in a small town in Essex, England, where no tourist ever goes - I had to show the person there how to swipe my card in her reader. Other than that, though, no problems ever.

Is this a problem primarily if you try to use your cards at a gas pump? I admit I don't drive overseas so I wouldn't know anything about that. I know some have said this is an issue with public-transit machines - but I just bought a bus ticket from a machine in Dublin last week, and it read my mag-stripe card just fine.

...It will be interesting to see if the Andrews FCU cards allow the PIN to be changed, what the procedure is, and if they will work in devices which use offline verification.

I have UK-issued Chip & PIN card and the normal way to change the PIN is at an ATM because the PIN is stored in the CHIP, and the ATM can write to the Chip. If the PIN is not stored in the Chip I don't believe the card will work offline.

From the Andrews FCU website about the GlobeTrek Visa:

The PIN issued to your card is pre-set with the magnetic stripe and chip and therefore not customizable.

I can't find it now, but based on what I've read it should work offline. It does mention that it will work in unattended machines.

I think more travelers are going with the Andrews FCU card as I just stumbled upon this blog who went through and explained the detailed process of getting one step-by-step with screenshots and all:

http://victoria-hawkins.com/archives/744

I took a look at this link; it mirrored my experience. It was somewhat cumbersome, but I eventually got approved by Andrews last week. I'm waiting for my card; I leave in 2 weeks.

Added detailed link info to a blog writer who provides step-by-step instructions on the process of obtaining the Andrews FCU Globetrek Rewards card

http://victoria-hawkins.com/archives/744

In case anyone wants to get an idea of the time frame for Andrews FCU, it was just a month from the date I joined and applied for a chip and pin card to the date my card arrived. However, there was a delay due to problems with the fax line, and if I had been more pressed for time, I'm sure I could have shaved a week off that time by following up more frequently. And the pin arrived in the mail the day after the card. Now I'll see how it works in France. I'll post any experiences I have with it that I think might be useful to someone.

First off, I want to say this thread was very helpful. I was able to find a suitable chip-and-PIN offering (Andrews FCU) for a trip to Germany later this year.

The application process was a bit long (it shows these smaller credit unions still do old fashioned loan approvals) but here is what I did.

1. Joined the American Consumer Council
.
.
.
6. The next day, I received another phone call asking me to fax over a letter specifying a phone password, as well as 2 forms of ID with my signature.

I thought I would share my experience with Andrews FCU.

I decided to do it the old fashioned way. Instead of MASTERNC's six-step program, I took one step only.

1. Walk into an Andrews FCU branch.

I went with all kinds of documents that MASTERNC listed (two IDs, paystub). Turns out it was way easier than I thought. They just wanted my drivers license, then took care of starting me as a member, open a savings account (minimum $5, I actually put in $90), and apply for the Globetrek card. The customer service rep filled out everything, I did nothing. I only e-signed on their signature pad. She never asked for second ID, paystub, nothing like that. Not even about a membership in the American Consumer Council. She did ask what credit limit I wanted, I told her, she (or the computer) approved as requested. In under 30 minutes I was out the door as a member with an approved Globetrek card account. I should receive the actual card in the mail "in about a week". We shall see.

Overall, very very easy. The experience at the branch was as easy as can be.

So if you find yourselves near an Andrews FCU branch, you may want to consider applying in person.

I decided to do it the old fashioned way. Instead of MASTERNC's six-step program, I took one step only.

1. Walk into an Andrews FCU branch.

So if you find yourselves near an Andrews FCU branch, you may want to consider applying in person.

Well noted. If you reside or happen to be near the MD, NJ or Washington DC area with Andrews FCU branches (http://www.andrewsfcu.org/page.php?page=526), it might be easier to just show up in person and open an account there.

I decided to do it the old fashioned way. Instead of MASTERNC's six-step program, I took one step only.

1. Walk into an Andrews FCU branch.

Hat tip to you kind sir. I live about two hours away from a branch. I'm going to do this as well, on a nice day when I can ride my motorcycle down there!

Well, except I don't want to pay 3% extra and lose out on extra points for avoiding a quick argument! (Maybe for avoiding an extremely long argument, though.)

I earn nothing on an Andrews FCU card, right? And I don't collect Hyatt, so that card doesn't work for me.

It is 1% forex, not 3% for the Andrews FCU card and you do earn some sort of rewards points, though not straight miles.

I think for a lot of people, it is a great backup option when you run into a situation when you need a chip and pin such as automated gas stations, train stations, you get the 1 employee who does not know how to do the "swipe", etc, etc.

Well, except I don't want to pay 3% extra and lose out on extra points for avoiding a quick argument! (Maybe for avoiding an extremely long argument, though.)

How does your quick argument go with the metro ticket machine?

I earn nothing on an Andrews FCU card, right? And I don't collect Hyatt, so that card doesn't work for me.

Andrews FCU card earns CU Rewards (http://www.curewards.com/) points, which are worth about 1%. You pay 1% forex fee and get back 1% in rewards, so it's a zero net sum.

I think the point is that the chip-and-PIN cards enable some transactions that are otherwise impossible, and speed up transactions that would take an argument with a clerk. When the transaction amount is small there is no point even starting the argument. The time it takes to even start the argument, at a traveler's hourly rate, exceeds the value of the reward. Might as well cut straight to the chip-and-PIN to avoid wasting time.

Now for large transactions, I agree with you, swipe for the better reward. But those are typically done at merchants where you could swipe anyway and who are used to swiping.

To use chip & pin in those categories, I have to give up extra earnings and pay 3% forex.

Both the Andrews and Hyatt cards earn rewards and have 0% forex fee (net 0% on the Andrews considering the rewards rate). The former has $0 annual fee and the other has $75 annual fee.

Besides, if it's something like a subway ticket on the Brussels Metro, a EUR 4,00 ham-and-cheese sandwich at a French supermarket, or trying to pay a JPY 2000 cab fare in Fukuoka, earning rewards and forex rates are the least of my concern. I'll give the mag-stripe a shot, but as soon as I find it doesn't work, it's going to the bottom of my wallet and out comes my Andrews FCU or Chase Hyatt card.

That being said, you can say that my biggest concern in these instances is the quickness of having other options in my wallet. As soon as I find that I can't buy a subway ticket using the machine using my mag-stripe, out comes my Andrews FCU Chip-and-PIN card. It's the point that I need to buy the ticket as fast as I can to catch the train instead of finding an open kiosk and dealing with a live person at a manned station over the language barrier, in which I may not even know that the window hours may not be even open on that hour/weekend.

As for the supermarket, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with the minimum wage earning cashier to swipe the card for the sake of a ham-and-cheese sandwich. My biggest concern is getting out through the checkout stand quickly without creating a huge backup of irritated customers behind me. Rather than dealing with the irritations and embarrassments that would cause by that, I just whip out my Chase Hyatt Chip-and-Signature card.

As for the cab in Fukuoka, I'm not going to waste my time sitting in the cab trying to put my point across with the Japanese taxi driver who's unable to accept my CapOne mag-stripe card because the cab isn't equipped with a swiper. For the sake of JPY 2000 worth of cab fare, earning Venture Rewards or trying to push the CapOne card because has no forex fees is not worth my time or effort. I can either just pay cash or whip out my Andrews FCU or Chase Hyatt card instead.

Now if I'm buying a $500 Fendi wallet in Paris as a present for my mom, then my priority jumps to earning rewards and forex rates. I'm fairly confident that Fendi stores in Paris will accept mag-stripe cards and are staffed with people who know what mag-stripes are for the sake of lots of American Express cardholders shopping there. But for the small things in life like a subway ticket, a ham-and-cheese sandwich, or a simple cab fare, I'm not wasting my time or effort pushing the "you need to accept the mag-stripe" argument, moreso when the easiest solutions to those minute problems in life already are in my wallet in the form of two chipped cards. And cards that provide me the solutions to these minute problems in life are the ones that I tend to view as cards that offer better service that fits the needs of the international traveler; which in the end, persuades me to prefer using chipped cards as my main cards outside of the US.

nevermind!

I've applied for, and been approved, for an Andrews FCU chip-and-PIN card. I received the PIN about 8 days later, but have not yet received the card... Been about 10 days. How long does this usually take for Andrews?

Thanks!

I have to wonder how much of an increase in clients Andrews FCU is gaining for being the sole provider of true Chip-and-PIN cards in the US.

I have to wonder how much of an increase in clients Andrews FCU is gaining for being the sole provider of true Chip-and-PIN cards in the US.
You mean as the sole provider of true Chip-and-PIN cards to new accounts in the US.

BMO/Harris is providing true Chip-and-PIN cards in the US, but only to people who've had the Diners Club card for at least a few years (since they last took applications for new personal accounts).

Thus without factoring in the "new accounts" issue, Andrews is not the sole provider of true Chip-and-PIN cards in the US.

Still, who knows about this? Has there been an article in the WSJ or someplace explaining Andrews FCU and their true Chip-and-PIN cards? Or is it just our little collection of folks here on FT that know about it?

I just returned from a two week stay in Nice, France where I was able to successfully use my Andrews FCU Chip and Pin in the ticket kiosk at the train station and at the automated ticket machine at the tram stops--many times. A big thank you to FlyerTalk for alerting me to the availability of this card.

It was especially satisfying to successfully use it in the Nice train station in spite of a warning sign on the kiosk stating that American credit cards will not work--yay!!

nevermind!

I was able to successfully use my Andrews FCU Chip and Pin in the ticket kiosk at the train station and at the automated ticket machine at the tram stops--many times.

Thank you for reporting back on your experience in using the Andrews FCU Globetrek Rewards Chip-and-PIN card abroad. I have added the note to the Google Docs spreadsheet that you have confirmed it works at automated kiosks and train ticketing machines that only takes chipped cards.

If anyone wants to report how this card worked at automated gas pumps and toll booths, that would be helpful too. Sounds like Andrews FCU is clearly becoming the best backup card Americans can get for international travel to this date, especially when Chip-and-PIN transactions are necessary.

I have been testing my Andrews Globetrek VISA, and so far I am not thrilled.

4/3 in the US I charged $5 at a regular merchant. Regular swipe and sign, of course. The charge did not appear in my Andrews account online and it's been 3 weeks already. If it stays that way my only regret will be that the charge was not $5K.

4/21 in Switzerland I charged 1 CHF at Coop (supermarket). Inserted the card in the chip reader, terminal prompted me to verify the amount, and then a paper slip came out for signing. No prompt to enter PIN. Again, charge did not appear in my Andrews account online.

4/24 in Portugal I charged 1.xx EUR at Pingo Doce (supermarket). Exact same experience as in Switzerland, had to sign. At this supermarket I also tried another charge for 1.yy EUR with an EU-issued chip&pin VISA, and then the terminal prompted me for PIN. So the terminal prompts for PIN, but not when using the Andrews card. Ugh.

I have not yet found any unattended machine that takes VISA. There are machines that take local cards, but not VISA. When I find one, that will be the acid test.

Has anyone tried the Andrews Globetrek VISA and been prompted for PIN?

the advantage of a Europe-issued card vs a US EMV card would be that the former is more likely to work for online payments from European vendors of train tickets, SIM top-ups, etc.

I might do Andrews. I'm leaving for 2 weeks in Italy in a month. But hopefully Visa pushes this through as they talked about.

I just returned from a month in France, and I'm glad I took the time to get an Andrews FCU chip and pin card before I left. I used it principally at gas stations and metro/train stations in Bordeaux and Paris, plus the toll motorways a couple of times. A high percentage of gas stations are at supermarkets (which have the cheapest gas by far in France), and pretty much all of them were unattended. Plus I sometimes needed gas when no attended stations would be open anyway. The card was never rejected. The only thing that surprised me was that sometimes, particularly at shops, the machine didn't ask for a PIN and just approved the transaction, or else it required a signature.

I'm tired of going to Europe and not being able to use automated ticket kiosks. So 2 weeks ago, I applied for membership at Andrews FCU, and a few days later applied and was approved for the Globe Trek Visa. The lower foreign exchange fee was also another attractive feature, compared to the American Express foreign exchange fee, this is a deal.

I'm looking forward to seeing if this card makes my upcoming trip to Holland any easier (though I suspect it still won't work in local chip & PIN kiosks). Any reports from others who have already received the card and gone overseas?

I now kind of wish I were staying in Paris at least a day... then I could hire one of those public bicycles with the chip & PIN card!

Check out my later post of April 27 re using the Andrews card in France.

How are the forex fees and the exchange rates they use though?

I just did a quick comparison with a charge on Capital One on the same day, and the exchange rate was almost identical. But Andrews does have a 1% fee.

I just did a quick comparison with a charge on Capital One on the same day, and the exchange rate was almost identical. But Andrews does have a 1% fee.

Thanks RRossi for your review of Andrews FCU card at unattended gas stations.

Looks like it's pretty straightforward now; use a no forex fee card (traditional mag-stripe like CapOne or chip-and-sign such as Chase Hyatt) as the main card for overseas use, and the backup to be Andrews FCU for any places that require Chip-and-PIN.

Has anyone tried the Andrews Globetrek VISA and been prompted for PIN?

I posted about this elswhere, but here's my recap: I used my Andrews card extensively at unattended gas stations and at train kiosks all over France, and it worked every time. I used it a few times at manned locations, and sometimes it asked for a PIN but then approved and asked for a signature, other tines it simply approved it w/o a PIN and/or signature.

I'm still planning on applying for the Andrews FCU card before our next trip. What a pain in the behind.

Pretty much that's the consensus nowadays. Why deal with all the hassle when a simple no annual fee solution exists from Andrews FCU? I can waste my time arguing with a young clerk that they have to take it, never-minding the fact that they might've never seen one before, or I can just whip out my Andrews FCU card.

For those who don't have a chip-and-PIN card or chip-and-signature card, all I can offer you is to bring identification, print out the following explanation in French, hand it over, and hope for the best.

Je regrette, mais les cartes de crédit américaines n'ont toujours pas de puce. Il faut passer la bande magnétique par la fente d'à côté (ou en haut). La machine imprimera un ticket, et il faut que je le signe. Je suis prêt(e) à vous prouver mon identité.
I'm sorry, but American cards still don't have a chip. You need to swipe the magnetic stripe through the slot on the side (or on the top). The machine will print a ticket, and I need to sign it. I can prove my identity to you.



Good idea. I can help out in Japanese:

申し訳ないですが、このアメリカ発行のクレジットカードはICチップがついておりません。後ろの磁気ストラ イプをカード機の横（または上）のスロットにスライドしてください。カード機がレシートを発行しますので私 がそれをサインします。身分証明書は持っていますので私がそのカード保持者であることを証明で きます。

BeeNYC and RRossi already reported their experiences using the Andrews FCU card in automated stations:


Yes but they didn't try chip&signature first.

What I had suggested was an experiment to see whether there are situations where Andrews FCU works but chip&signature does not. This was in response to the poster that mentioned that you could enter four zeroes as the pin and it worked for him at many automated machines. The question is whether there are machines that don't accept this method but do accept the Andrews FCU card.

Well, I've given up on the Andrews FCU card. I started the process to qualify and then apply for the account more than a month ago, and every single time I think I've actually applied, it turns out there's one more thing they need from me that they forgot to tell me about the last time we spoke. And I never find this out because they called me, oh no -- I always have to call them to find out if the card is finally on the way and then I hear the following:

Andrews: "Oh, I see a note here to call you to tell you we need (some completely new thing) before we can process the application."
Me: "That's odd, no one called me."
Andrews: "Yeah, we've been really busy."

At this point I have sent them more info than I did for my last refi. I have excellent credit, btw -- that's not the issue. It's that there's always one more form I need to fax.

The last straw was being told I needed to fax in two different forms of ID to get a password. (Not for the credit card, just for the purposes of talking on the phone to these people.) Then it would still be 7-10 days for processing. Are you kidding me?

So, anyway, I'm giving up. Hopefully USAA will get its head out of its ... and get moving on this eventually. In the meantime, I'll just carry a lot of cash and hope I don't get mugged.

tldr: If you actually want this card, start the process at least 3 months before your trip, and be prepared to call them every single day until you actually get the card.

Andrews: "Yeah, we've been really busy."

Can't really blame them; they're practically the only financial institution in the US who offers full Chip-and-PIN that anyone can apply for without working for the UN, working for the State of NC, or being an existing Diners Club cardholder (which isn't taking new applicants).

In many ways, Andrews FCU has a monopoly for American international travelers that need a Chip-and-PIN card. Add on top of that it carries no annual fee, of course they're going to be inundated with calls and applications.

OTOH, it does signal that there is a market for it and I'm sure there's other financial institutions are interested to know how much applications Andrews FCU has been getting lately.

However, keep in mind that you're not the usual clientele for Andrews FCU. It mainly caters to civilian personnel working at Andrews AFB, DoD employees, and members of the military stationed abroad.

I'll offer a counter-point ... as a new Andrews FCU cardholder.

The entire process took roughly three weeks, from application to receiving the card. You certainly do need to be prepared to initiate most (or all) of the phone calls in order to keep the process moving. This was my experience:

3/29 - Submitted application to open Andrews account/Apply for Globetrek card.
3/31 - Called to check application status. Was told it was still being reviewed, but in the meantime I should fill out the "security" form to establish a password to use when calling to inquire about my account (form was then e-mailed). Was also told to e-mail copies of two paystubs to them to support my claimed income.
4/10 - Website application status check switches to "approved".
4/11 - Called to inquire about status - was then e-mailed documents to "e-sign" to complete the application. E-signed, and returned same day.
4/12 - Received a phone call from the person handling the credit card application, who asked me some security questions (The standard "We show you have an existing loan from this servicer ..." and "You previously lived at this address ...") and confirmed all of my information on the application. She then told me the application had been officially approved and sent for processing, and I should be receiving my card within a week.
4/17 - Received the PIN for the card in the mail.
4/18 - Received the card in the mail and activated successfully.

Definitely be prepared to initiate a few phone calls ... but hopefully it shouldn't take you longer than a month to get everything done.

...but in the meantime I should fill out the "security" form to establish a password to use when calling to inquire about my account (form was then e-mailed).

I think it might be better for Andrews FCU to just have that form as part of the application process me thinks. :p

And it also seems Andrews FCU have begun to promote the GlobeTrek Chip-and-PIN card more visibly as it's now showing up on their front page of their webpage: http://www.andrewsfcu.org/

I think it might be better for Andrews FCU to just have that form as part of the application process me thinks. :p

I would agree ... although their entire application process leaves a lot to be desired :)

However, that security form was not required for any of my interactions ... they merely asked if I had the form, e-mailed it when I indicated that I didn't, and asked that I return it when possible. I was able to complete the entire application process/status check without having it on file.

For those looking to get the Andrew FCU card, stay on top of the application process. I submitted an application in mid-March. After not hearing anything for 1.5 weeks, I called and was told "We need income verification, etc..." No mention of calling or anything. I faxed this in, got approved a day later and e-signed the documents. At this point, I expected to get the card within 2 weeks. Nope, nothing came, and I left for the UK without the card. Came back a week later, called them, and they had no record of a card being issued. They resent the documents to re-sign, and I'm now waiting for a card.

Moral of the story: constantly check if you ever want to get the card

I'll second what dblevitan has posted above. The process to get this thing approved is quite long for a credit card. It is not like most places, you do the application, they send you a card and a ton of junk mail. With Andrews, the following is the procedure that I followed to get this silly CHIP/PIN card:


Signed up for Consumer Credit Council - required for membership into Andrews Federal Credit Union - couple of minutes
Signed up for Andrews Federal Credit Union - put $5 in account. Had to send in a bunch of signed papers (no electronically signed PDFs allowed). This was only allowed by snail mail
Did credit card application on-line - make sure you print out your application number, you are going to need it. - couple of minutes
Never heard back for a couple of days, called them and they indicated that they needed pay verification.
Sent random pay stub from earlier in the year - first one I could find
A few days later, they sent message indicating that they can't accept a stub over 30 days old.
Sent most recent stub by email
They called a couple of days later, wanting to know if I'm still interested as they claim they didn't get the email. I kept the lady on the line and re-sent the original email which she verified was received and attached to my application
Few days later get approval email. Hold and sit tight
Few days later get request to electronically sign loan/credit documents
Sign electronic documents immediately, their letter indicates that you must fax/email additional information to complete application, including the documents you just electronically signed.
Not 10 minutes after signing documents, CS calls and wants to know if I'm still interested as I haven't submitted the additional information requested when the electronically signed documents were submitted.
CS proceeded to ask all sorts of random questions relating to my credit report, wanting to know my last three addresses, cards I've closed and when, cards I currently have, etc... A visit to the proctologist would have been more fun. I'm surprised that she didn't ask for my selective service registration number. .....
They wanted the following information: (i) signed and dated hand written letter indicating the password that I'd like to have (ii) scan of driver's license and (iii) secondary ID scan - passport will work. Don't put the password in the body of the email, that is not acceptable, it must be in a scanned signed letter. I asked if an electronically signed PDF would suffice. Nope, has to be hand-signed and scanned/faxed.
Scanned all of this and sent off, looks like I'll be waiting for a few more days to see what happens.


Total number of days to get to this point: 14
Number of days until the trip to the Continent: 30

Based upon what I've seen, I'm not terribly hopeful, but we'll see what happens. If this is the application process, wonder what the actual card production process is for them, does it include the extensive use of gerbils?

Also, what is up with all the lack of doing all of this stuff on-line with verified identities/certificates? For a card that is beneficial for international travelers, they don't make it easy having to print, sign, and scan and sometimes actually mail documents. I guess that they don't realize that many of us move from hotel to hotel to hotel and getting time to do all of this administrative paperwork is close to impossible.

I'm glad that I changed to a salaried position (versus just taking owner's draws) as I can tell you that they would not have approved the application based upon their process if this had been the case.

I guess that they don't realize that many of us move from hotel to hotel to hotel and getting time to do all of this administrative paperwork is close to impossible.

In all fairness, Andrews FCU's main client base are those working at Andrews AFB, DoD employees, and servicemen/women stationed overseas, not globe-trotting corporate road warriors or Joe Backpacker. :p

OTOH, at least their credit union qualifications are open to everyone though the ACC, so it is a lot easier than changing jobs to go work for the UN or the State of NC just for the sake of getting a Chip-and-PIN card, or just by happen to luck out by being a previous Diners Club cardholder.

Of course, because of that and with Andrews FCU being the only US financial institution as of this date that offers true Chip-and-PIN that any American can apply for, the number of applications that they received for their Globe Trek Rewards card might be a good indicator for other banks to see how much market demand there is for true Chip-and-PIN cards.


But you must bear mind in mind, corporate road warriors and Joe Backpackers aren't really their main client base. As such, I could understand how Andrews FCU would be asking for so much hoops-and-bounds for credit card applicants that are not their usual clientele.

As a credit union, their main objective is to keep credit union members happy that pays out dividends into their savings accounts. Their Chip-and-PIN Globetrek Rewards card is a by-product of what their credit union members wanted.

If you really want to appreciate thanks to Andrews FCU for providing the only Chip-and-PIN card that's openly available to any American, the better thing to do would actually start using their Andrews FCU savings account or so rather than just leaving it with the initial minimum deposit of $5. In all honesty, a savings account with Andrews FCU that has no maintenance fees and earns interest in forms of dividends isn't a bad deal either.

Even scheduling a direct deposit of a $1 from your paycheck or transferring $100 from your existing savings account to the Andrews FCU savings would go a long way to actually helping both you and your fellow credit union members at Andrews FCU. Eventually, the amount that you start putting into the Andrews FCU savings account may even end up helping Andrews FCU to get the funds necessary to streamline the Globetrek application process.

Anyone know which credit agencies they hit when running the report?

I now kind of wish I were staying in Paris at least a day... then I could hire one of those public bicycles with the chip & PIN card!

But fortunately Velib works with a magnetic stripe American Express card, just not a mag strip MC or Visa. Of course, there's the 2.7% forex fee, mais c'est la vie!

Anyone know which credit agencies they hit when running the report?

Experian, at the very least ... I haven't pulled the other two recently so I can't confirm those.

Does anyone have additional details on applying in-person at one of their branches? Do you get all of the followup paperwork out of the way in one go? How long did you spend in the branch, and how long did it take to get the card? Do you need to join the Consumer Credit Council ahead of time, or can they handle that as well?

Looking at the branch finder on their site, I'm guessing the ones labeled "shared branching" don't count, and only ones that show up as Andrews branches will work?

I applied last night on line. I checked this morning using my application number: approved. I am not a member of the credit union nor have an account there.

It says an account exec will contact me to finalize my card. So we will see how it goes this week.

Does anyone have additional details on applying in-person at one of their branches? Do you get all of the followup paperwork out of the way in one go? How long did you spend in the branch, and how long did it take to get the card? Do you need to join the Consumer Credit Council ahead of time, or can they handle that as well?

Looking at the branch finder on their site, I'm guessing the ones labeled "shared branching" don't count, and only ones that show up as Andrews branches will work?

+1 I will be flying into DC soon and thought if it would be more efficient in person. The American Consumer Council (https://www.americanconsumercouncil.org/membership.asp?dname=Americanconsumercouncil.org) looks rather easy to apply to online.

How did I miss post #750? :) Thanks FT is awesome.

FYI, CaptainMiles' post about joining Andrews FCU and obtaining their Chip-and-PIN card in person at an Andrews FCU branch has been moved as post #15 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18276159-post15.html) in this thread.

FYI, CaptainMiles' post about joining Andrews FCU and obtaining their Chip-and-PIN card in person at an Andrews FCU branch has been moved as post #15 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18276159-post15.html) in this thread.

Thanks!

Assuming that we can't use the branches marked as "shared branching" on their site, that only leaves one that's Metro-accessible that I can see: Henson Ridge Branch, about half a mile from the Congress Heights metro station (on the green line).

Thanks!

Assuming that we can't use the branches marked as "shared branching" on their site, that only leaves one that's Metro-accessible that I can see: Henson Ridge Branch, about half a mile from the Congress Heights metro station (on the green line).

Well, it is a classic FT way to do things; make good use of a MR to open up a Chip-and-PIN card.

"Honey, I’m going to have to fly out to DCA this week to rack up on frequent flier miles, hotel points, requalify for elite status AND open up a new credit card! Do you want any souvenirs from the Smithsonian while I'm there?"

And you wonder why people call us crazy. :D

Well, it is a classic FT way to do things; make good use of a MR to open up a Chip-and-PIN card.

"Honey, I’m going to have to fly out to DCA this week to rack up on frequent flier miles, hotel points, requalify for elite status AND open up a new credit card! Do you want any souvenirs from the Smithsonian while I'm there?"

And you wonder why people call us crazy. :D

I am OTP with an AndrewsFCU CSR right now finalizing my app. Had to send over last years W2 and my recent pay statement. And you do need to open an account with Andrews as well if not already a member as part of having their Globe Trek Visa (I went with a checking acct and a small amount in a savings acct with them).

Had to send back paperwork for membership and PIN request for OTP communications since I won't be in person dealing with them. Looks like I ought to be good to go with this card.

5/18 Update: Officially approved for my card. I chose a low limit since I'm only going to use the card when my regular magnetic stripe card won't work while overseas. Outside of electronically sending over previously mentioned info, I faxed back photocopies of 2 pieces of ID and PIN (that had been previously sent back with snail mailed paperwork). Should be getting the card sent to me as soon as my e-document is sent over and I send it back. Advanced checking account info (which earns interest BTW) is in process of being sent to me. Looking forward to having complete peace of mind when I'm in the EU next trip out (hopefully this Fall).

5/29 Just received my card today. Looking forward to getting my initial points from first purchase and having it on standby for when I visit Dublin this November!

Eric

Anyone know which credit agencies they hit when running the report?

Just checked TransUnion and no sign of an inquiry from my application 2 months ago.

Just as a data point: I first applied for the card online on May 2, and I received the card on May 19. I probably could have shaved off a day or 2 if I had all of my documents (paystub, IDs, etc.) ready when I first applied.

I tried to follow application steps for AFCU Globetrek VISA Chip and PIN about a month before a trip to Italy and France. Main motivations were for transportation-related machines: train station ticket machines, highway toll booths and gas stations, and especially city-run rental bikes in Paris and Lyon. The card did work pretty well when I got there, I will admit. But the effort to obtain it - sheeeesh. Like a puzzle/labrynth - unlike any other credit card process I have been through. And usually I don't really want a card this much, and never with any kind of pressing timeline. Usually banks are hurling cards my way, but not here.

The online application flow from becoming a member to submitting the VISA application failed in the very last online step, unexplained, and thus prohibited me from further on-line submissions. And AFCU could not tell me the cause of that failure.

So I had to submit a paper application for both membership and card. There was no indication how to do the $5 savings deposit via paper applications, and phone calls did not clarify. And no mention of IDs and residency proofs to accompany. So my application sat at Andrews for 2 of my 4 weeks till I could unravel that one with the (always very professional and friendly, I must admit) phone reps.

Photo IDs and proof of residency had to be faxed, plus a money order for the $5. Now we lost another few days, leaving 10 days till depature day. Andrews was willing to expedite the card to me for free as most of the delays were caused by their failure to contact me. However they were not willing to expediite the required PIN to me for free - that was a $25 fee (chuckle).

Down to about 4 days now. So they expedited the PIN via next day air, but not the card. They forgot about the card. So I phoned again (about my 12th call in the whole process). Now they expedited the card. Arrived the morning of my departure. I phoned in to activate the card. Realized that for overseas use they need to know I'll be out of the country. I rushed to call and tell them that.

AFCU has an interesting split between customer service and.....customer service. I had to call a different customer service line to mention my dates out of the country.

There are international transaction fees but they are not terrible, and the exchange rates turned out to be decent on my first statement. They don't force you to foregoi paper statements, which is nice because they whole thing was so wacky I'd never be able to find the online statement. I tried to rig up my Savings ($5) and VISA account into one online, but nothing doing. Set up the Savings pretty easily but the VISA set-up could not be found very intuitively, and they are separate signons.

I don't really know if this was at all worth it, but after a point I got addicted to the challenge of finishing this. I really did not find this easy and I am pretty savvy on this stuff. I'd be really interested to know what failed on the VISA online application initially, as that's what set me up for this wackiness. I might guess a freeze had not been removed from my credit agency or something, but I'd expect to be told that rather than locked out of the on-line application process.

So in case you are thinking about this, maybe taking osme care to on-lock your credit in advance *might* smooth things, I dunno. If you get shifted to the paper process I'd pretty much say it is not worth the effort, nice as the AFCU people can sincerely be.

...interesting split between customer service and.....customer service. I had to call a different customer service line to mention my dates out of the country....Set up the Savings pretty easily but the VISA set-up could not be found very intuitively, and they are separate signons.

Welcome to Flyertalk. It sounds as if the credit card administration is outsourced, which is typical even for regional banks.

They seem to be a pretty conservative CU. For those approved, What kind of credit lines have you been given?

They seem to be a pretty conservative CU. For those approved, What kind of credit lines have you been given?

Well, conservative is on the eyes of the beholder. It could be a PIB to open an account just for the sake of getting a Chip-and-PIN credit card. But at least their CU is open-minded enough to accept anyone to join unlike others which you have to be a member of the UN or working for the State of NC or the sort. :D

Applied last week from the website directly. No membership application submitted. They pulled Experian. No decision received yet.

They seem to be a pretty conservative CU. For those approved, What kind of credit lines have you been given?

Well, I purposely requested a low credit line since I'm only going to be using this card as a back up for those instances while traveling abroad in the EU or elsewhere in the world where chip + PIN is required as opposed to my traditional magnetic stripe card. I only asked for a $1k limit.

Now, when the application process is taken in the context of how one would go about applying for a credit card through a bank, for example, yes, the process for the Globe Trek Visa will seem like a PIB. However, we do need to keep in mind that they are a credit union, so there will be extra steps involved with joining the CU.

Overall I had no qualms with the process.

Eric

I just returned from a week in Ireland with the Globetrek VISA. It never failed to work any time I used it, but I was never prompted for my PIN either. When I used it in restaurants and supermarkets it always printed out a signature slip, much to the surprise of the clerks. At automated parking kiosks the transactions always went through with no PIN or signature.

I called Andrews customer service when I got back. After some back and forth and a long period on hold they explained that each institution sets its own priority for verification methods on EMV cards. Andrews has the PIN at the bottom of their list, so users should only be prompted for their PIN if other methods are not available.

I explained that it was always a surprise when signature slips would print out on chip transactions, and a bit of a hassle. The agent I was speaking with agreed to pass along my feedback that it would be better in most cases if the PIN had higher priority than the signature on CHIP transactions.

I am not sure I would take any of this as gospel after one conversation with customer service, but it would explain the behavior I saw with the card.

...It never failed to work any time I used it, but I was never prompted for my PIN either. When I used it in restaurants and supermarkets it always printed out a signature slip,...

Also reported by RRossi in post 30 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18471630-post30.html). Welcome to FlyerTalk and thank you for asking Andrews for the explanation. This means that in your case a Chip & Signature card should have been sufficient at every location, while in RRossi's case the PIN feature was required for a few transactions.

I just returned from a week in Ireland with the Globetrek VISA. It never failed to work any time I used it, but I was never prompted for my PIN either. When I used it in restaurants and supermarkets it always printed out a signature slip, much to the surprise of the clerks. At automated parking kiosks the transactions always went through with no PIN or signature.

I called Andrews customer service when I got back. After some back and forth and a long period on hold they explained that each institution sets its own priority for verification methods on EMV cards. Andrews has the PIN at the bottom of their list, so users should only be prompted for their PIN if other methods are not available.

I explained that it was always a surprise when signature slips would print out on chip transactions, and a bit of a hassle. The agent I was speaking with agreed to pass along my feedback that it would be better in most cases if the PIN had higher priority than the signature on CHIP transactions.

I am not sure I would take any of this as gospel after one conversation with customer service, but it would explain the behavior I saw with the card.

Thanks for this info! I'm going to be in Dublin, Ireland, in November and am glad to learn I won't have any problems using it in the event my United Club Card (trad mag stripe) doesn't work or isn't accepted by an establishment.

Check back with them tomorrow. It is possible that they'll ask you to send last year's W2 as well as a recent paycheck stub. This is what they asked me to do. HTH.

Anyone know which credit agencies they hit when running the report?
They hit all three agencies in the last week ("New Trade Line"), and even hit Experian a week before that ("New Inquiry").

Decided to do this myself, since (a) I'm constantly annoyed by not being able to use the kiosks at UK rail stations with a signature card, and (b) have a trip planned to drive the Ring Road in Iceland, and two other people I've known to do it recommended either getting a chip-and-pin card, or a prepaid Icelandic gas card, so that you have more fueling opportunities in the back road of Iceland.

I should have just joined on of my many work trips to McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, but I did it online, and aside from taking a week to get all the stuff in the mail, it was relatively straightforward.

...
4/17 - Received the PIN for the card in the mail.
4/18 - Received the card in the mail and activated successfully.
...
I received and activated the card today, but have not yet received the PIN...maybe tomorrow.

I see from another posting that the PIN is not change-able.

I see from another posting that the PIN is not change-able.

It probably can be changed at an EMV equipped ATM which can write the change to the chip. There are no such ATMs in the USA, but it might work in another country, if the issuer has implemented the feature. See this post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18663872-post53.html) regarding the process for changing the Diners Club (USA) PIN.

I see from another posting that the PIN is not change-able.

The Andrews FCU website has been updated with a new FAQ that includes this:

The PIN issued to your card is pre-set with the magnetic strip and chip and therefore not customizable. Please memorize your PIN in order to use your new card anywhere outside the U.S., and at ATM locations throughout the states.

The Andrews FCU website has been updated with a new FAQ that includes this:

The PIN issued to your card is pre-set with the magnetic strip and chip and therefore not customizable. Please memorize your PIN in order to use your new card anywhere outside the U.S., and at ATM locations throughout the states.

That seems to be the case with the barebones mag-stripe Andrews FCU ATM card that you receive in the mail when you first opened the Andrews FCU shared savings account and funded it with the minimum $5. The PIN on that ATM card is not changeable.

That seems to be the case with the barebones mag-stripe Andrews FCU ATM card that you receive in the mail when you first opened the Andrews FCU shared savings account and funded it with the minimum $5. The PIN on that ATM card is not changeable.

Not sure about the ATM card itself, but the above statement is part of the FAQ on the page that is specific to the Visa Globetrek card:

Visa Globetrek - Andrews FCU (http://www.andrewsfcu.org/destinationanywhere.html)

Applied a week ago, received an email this evening asking for my paystub. I sent them my active duty LES from DFAS. Received a reply back with approval. I requested a mere $5000 limit, to which they did not have a problem.

I do have to fund my account $5 in order to qualify. I'm awaiting further instructions on that.

This is what they wrote:



Congratulations!

You have been approved for your Visa request with a credit limit of $5,000 at 1.9% for the 1st nine months and 7.99% thereafter.

Globe Trek Rewards Visa
New Chip and PIN Technology as well as the magnetic strip
1.9% for the 1st nine months
No Cash Advance Fees
No Annual Fees
No Balance Transfer Fees
1 Point for Every Dollar Spent
and MORE!
If you choose to accept, membership will need to be established by opening a Savings account with a minimum deposit of $5.00. The $5.00 can be deposited by utilizing Shared Branching. Shared Branching allows you the option of making deposits/withdrawals from a local credit union that provides this type of service. Please let me know if you would like the following option available to you.

I requested and received a 3k limit which I was frankly surprised by. I have a few other cards with higher limits so I thought they would not give me much. The process was back and forth via email and phone. A little tedious but their customer service reps were very friendly and helpful. I had the card shipped priority or some other expedited service and received it in about four business days. The PIN arrived later and I phoned home to get that from a friend checking my mail. :)

It worked great in Germany, France, Netherlands, and Spain but the signature bit was annoying when it occurred. I just wanted to use straight chip and pin.

Here is my experience with the Andrews FCU Globetrek Visa.

I'm here in Europe for 3 months spending the entire summer here. Before the trip, I wanted to find a card that was true chip + PIN and also that waived forex fees and earn miles/points if possible.

I saw the new Citibank AAdvantage Elite Executive World Mastercard that was Chip + Signature and indeed it waives ALL Forex fees. I applied for it and it showed at my doorstep within 3 days after being automatically approved online. I already have another card with Citibank. The downside is the annual fee of $450/year.

Then I found out about this Andrews FCU reading about it on a blog online. I applied online and it said online they would have an answer within a few hours and gave me a confirmation # to check on it.

Well the status never changed so I called in the next day. To my surprise they asked me for a long list of things that they needed including my last tax return with the IRS, utility bills, telephone bill and even the property tax statement for my house! Never in my life have I had to provide a bank any of these types of things to open a credit card. My FICO score is 817 and I have no debt whatsoever. I was really surprised.

I think my biggest mistake is on the application it asks what credit limit you request. All of my other credit cards have very high limits over $50,000+ so I put down $25,000 not really thinking about it. But I think that is why they needed to get so many documents plus the fact I've lived overseas outside of the USA for many years.

I did get the request approved after sending those documents in but it was still a hassle because I had to fill out another form that they had to email me. They never emailed me it. I had to call in and constantly check what I had to do next which was annoying. At least I didn't have to mail it back in. I just signed it online with Docusign and they accepted it. But even after ALL of this, they inform me that I can't just have the credit card account. That I have to open up a checking or savings account! So they send me forms to print out, I have to send in 2 forms of ID and a check to open up a savings account.

But to be honest it was a real pain in the rear. Especially considering that I got the Citibank Elite World Mastercard in just 3 days after applying online and never having to even speak to anyone on the phone. To boot they gave me a $60,000 credit limit.

Now I'm here in Paris and used the card a few times just to see how it would work. The funny thing is all of this trouble to get it and not once has it asked to input a PIN #!! LOL.

I think the biggest feature that they are pushing is they are one of the only USA cards that offer Chip + PIN but to be honest it's not really Chip + PIN. It's chip + Signature just like my other card. Every time I've used it here in Paris, it prints out a receipt and I have to sign it. Granted, it hasn't been rejected at all but it's not really a PIN which I prefer for the security aspects so if you lose your card no one can use it without entering the PIN #.

Now, I won't even use it as the Citibank Elite card works everywhere (even the Metro stations).

My advice for anyone that wants to apply for the Andrews FCU Globetrek is to put a low credit limit as to not hassle with all this paperwork. From start to finish it took almost 3 weeks. Big hassle for a card that isn't a true Chip + PIN.

And the thing I worry about, like the other OP, my charges from over a week ago aren't showing up online. I'm not sure if this online account is supposed to show my balance. I log in to my Savings account and below it has another section for my Credit card but I'm not sure if this is my credit card balances but charges from over a week ago still aren't showing up so not sure what the deal is?

And for the other person that asked..they pulled the credit report from Experian.

You might want to remove the Andrews FCU Globetrek card from your Chip + PIN list. I went through the hassle of getting one and I'm here in Paris now and it's really not a Chip + PIN..it's really a Chip + Signature. Every single place I've used it, it's printed out a receipt to sign just like the Citibank Elite World Executive MC that I got before the trip.

In fact, I've just been using the Citibank Elite MC now as they charge absolutely NO forex fees.

I posted in detail on the Andrews thread but this doesn't seem like a Chip + PIN at all. More like Chip + Signature.

To my surprise they asked me for a long list of things that they needed including my last tax return with the IRS, utility bills, telephone bill and even the property tax statement for my house! Never in my life have I had to provide a credit card company any of these types of things. My FICO score is 817 and I have no debt whatsoever. I was really surprised.

Andrews FCU is a credit union that mainly serves members of the US military and DoD employees withing the DC-MD-NJ area so the hassle is understandable. Globetrotting corporate road warriors and backpackers racking up frequent flyer miles are not their usual clientele. Unless your W-2 or paystub has something to do with the US military or US Department of Defense written on it, you're likely to be asked for more paperwork. OTOH, since anyone can join Andrews FCU via joining the ACC, it is still far easier than switching jobs to go work for the UN or work for the State of NC just for getting a Chip-and-PIN card! :p

It's also my first credit union that I joined (so far only banked at BofA) and was surprised how difficult it was just to open a simple checking and savings account with them. Took me a while to figure out how to make deposits at the VCOM machines at 7-Eleven and the need to remember your account number when making deposits at shared branches. Does need a bit getting used to, patience, and long planning when dealing with CUs.


My word of advice:

If you plan to go abroad and foresee a need for Chip-and-PIN, work out getting the Globetrek VISA a long time ahead.


I think the biggest feature that they are pushing is they are one of the only USA cards that offer Chip + PIN but to be honest it's not really Chip + PIN. It's chip + Signature just like my other card. Every time I've used it here in Paris, it prints out a receipt and I have to sign it. Granted, it hasn't been rejected at all but it's not really a PIN which I prefer for the security aspects so if you lose your card no one can use it without entering the PIN #.

The consensus so far has been that Globetrek can handle both Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN, and that signature authentication is set as a higher priority than PIN in places that can take either or, most likely being places where you deal with live merchants.

OTOH, BeeNYC (Post #25 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18376758-post25.html)) and RRossi (Post #34 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18479708-post34.html)) has reported that in cases where Chip-and-PIN is needed (unattended gas stations, automated train kiosks and toll roads), the Chip-and-PIN does work.

That being said, having both Chip-and-Signature (set as higher priority) AND Chip-and-PIN (in instances where PIN is required), is still a good keeper when traveling abroad.

You might want to remove the Andrews FCU Globetrek card from your Chip + PIN list. I went through the hassle of getting one and I'm here in Paris now and it's really not a Chip + PIN..it's really a Chip + Signature. Every single place I've used it, it's printed out a receipt to sign just like the Citibank Elite World Executive MC that I got before the trip.

In fact, I've just been using the Citibank Elite MC now as they charge absolutely NO forex fees.

I posted in detail on the Andrews thread but this doesn't seem like a Chip + PIN at all. More like Chip + Signature.

Have you tried it at unattended gas stations, automated train ticket machines, and toll roads? Per reports by RRossi and BeeNYC on that same thread, the Chip-and-PIN does work.

The consensus is that Globetrek is capable of handing both Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN, with signature authentication set as a higher priority in places where it can handle either or. In instances where PIN is needed such as unattended gas stations, train ticketing machines, and toll roads where it's impossible to do signature authentication, that's when the Chip-and-PIN portion kicks in.

In that light, I'll just update the worksheet to mention that it handles both.

I think my biggest mistake is on the application it asks what credit limit you request. All of my other credit cards have very high limits over $50,000+ so I put down $25,000 not really thinking about it. But I think that is why they needed to get so many documents plus the fact I've lived overseas outside of the USA for many years.


It would be interesting to hear more about this from other readers who have been approved from the card. I'll add my data point - I asked for (and received) a $10k limit, and the only paperwork requested of me was two recent pay stubs.

However, with all of the "manual" processing that goes along with this card and Andrews FCU, the required paperwork may be the kind of thing that is random and unpredictable - much like the rest of the card application/approval process :)

Have you tried it at unattended gas stations, automated train ticket machines, and toll roads? Per reports by RRossi and BeeNYC on that same thread, the Chip-and-PIN does work.

The consensus is that Globetrek is capable of handing both Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN, with signature authentication set as a higher priority in places where it can handle either or. In instances where PIN is needed such as unattended gas stations, train ticketing machines, and toll roads where it's impossible to do signature authentication, that's when the Chip-and-PIN portion kicks in.

In that light, I'll just update the worksheet to mention that it handles both.

Hmm..I'm not sure if it does both. I did buy some train tickets and also some metro tickets with it and at those it never asked for any PIN.

I'm renting a car here in a few weeks in the French Riviera so I'll check about unattended gas stations but so far it's never asked for a PIN number.

It would be interesting to hear more about this from other readers who have been approved from the card. I'll add my data point - I asked for (and received) a $10k limit, and the only paperwork requested of me was two recent pay stubs.

However, with all of the "manual" processing that goes along with this card and Andrews FCU, the required paperwork may be the kind of thing that is random and unpredictable - much like the rest of the card application/approval process :)

KrustyVT,

Thanks. It might just be that my employer is a foreign company outside of the USA. So I guess they weren't interested in pay stubs. But they did want to make sure that I filed a US tax return. Once I sent that there wasn't a problem. If memory serves correctly, they asked for the last two years tax returns. I sent them an IRS tax transcript which worked.

Krusty (or others), can you access your spending online? When I log into my account online to see my savings account, there is another that says Payment Account for Visa. It has a balance but it just stays $0 even after over a week's worth of charges. Are you able to access your charges online?

When I log into my account online to see my savings account, there is another that says Payment Account for Visa. It has a balance but it just stays $0 even after over a week's worth of charges. Are you able to access your charges online?

Not sure why they have that option there, but I don't think they tie in the charges from the CC. Pretty sure online banking account access is in one spot, and your CC (view charges/pay statement) is in a separate spot. Have you tried using the direct online access for the Visa card itself?

Andrews FCU - Visa Online (https://www.epscu.com/2977)

Hmm..I'm not sure if it does both. I did buy some train tickets and also some metro tickets with it and at those it never asked for any PIN.

Were they automated kiosks? Which trains, which city and which system? Details would be helpful.

i.e.:

BeeNYC said in Post #25 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18376758-post25.html) of the Andrews FCU usage report thread:

I just returned from a two week stay in Nice, France where I was able to successfully use my Andrews FCU Chip and Pin in the ticket kiosk at the train station and at the automated ticket machine at the tram stops--many times. A big thank you to FlyerTalk for alerting me to the availability of this card.

It was especially satisfying to successfully use it in the Nice train station in spite of a warning sign on the kiosk stating that American credit cards will not work--yay!!


RRossi said in post #30 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18471630-post30.html) and post #34 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18479708-post34.html) of that same thread:

I just returned from a month in France, and I'm glad I took the time to get an Andrews FCU chip and pin card before I left. I used it principally at gas stations and metro/train stations in Bordeaux and Paris, plus the toll motorways a couple of times. A high percentage of gas stations are at supermarkets (which have the cheapest gas by far in France), and pretty much all of them were unattended. Plus I sometimes needed gas when no attended stations would be open anyway. The card was never rejected. The only thing that surprised me was that sometimes, particularly at shops, the machine didn't ask for a PIN and just approved the transaction, or else it required a signature.
I posted about this elswhere, but here's my recap: I used my Andrews card extensively at unattended gas stations and at train kiosks all over France, and it worked every time. I used it a few times at manned locations, and sometimes it asked for a PIN but then approved and asked for a signature, other tines it simply approved it w/o a PIN and/or signature.

The consensus so far has been that Globetrek can handle both Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN, and that signature authentication is set as a higher priority than PIN in places that can take either or, most likely being places where you deal with live merchants.

OTOH, BeeNYC (Post #25 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18376758-post25.html)) and RRossi (Post #34 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18479708-post34.html)) has reported that in cases where Chip-and-PIN is needed (unattended gas stations, automated train kiosks and toll roads), the Chip-and-PIN does work.

That being said, having both Chip-and-Signature (set as higher priority) AND Chip-and-PIN (in instances where PIN is required), is still a good keeper when traveling abroad.
That guy obviously didn't read the entire thread.

I had a similar experience obtaining this card as the " Saint". But I only requested 10K and did not have to send in any additional documentation other then the application ( no financial forms) and a few other things they supplied. It was a pain in the ... to get this card.

My only beef so far is that when you call you have to provide them with a password that can only be faxed or emailed to them in a written signed letter. I have done that 3 times over the last two weeks.....and a call last Friday the CSR told me I still have not supplied them with a password so he couldn't help me. :rolleyes:

Not sure why they have that option there, but I don't think they tie in the charges from the CC. Pretty sure online banking account access is in one spot, and your CC (view charges/pay statement) is in a separate spot. Have you tried using the direct online access for the Visa card itself?

Andrews FCU - Visa Online (https://www.epscu.com/2977)


Thanks so much KrustyVT! I didn't know about that log in page. They never sent me anything at all regarding that page. I also asked them via phone and they never mentioned it. (Their customer service is lacking).
I set up to access the account online just now and it is working. Thanks again.

To the other poster that said I didn't read the entire thread. I did read the thread but only posting my observations. I have used it in self service machines including the metro to buy individual tickets and also recharge my metro card and it never asked for a PIN. My wife also used it to buy a train ticket from TGV to Milan and it also didn't ask for a PIN #.

Maybe it has the capabilities for Chip + PIN but so far we haven't experienced the PIN part of it.

Does anyone know if Andrews requires (or desires) prior notice before traveling abroad?

Does anyone know if Andrews requires (or desires) prior notice before traveling abroad?

According to their Globetrek website:

http://www.andrewsfcu.org/destinationanywhere.html


Do I still need to let you know if I’m traveling abroad?

Yes. When you travel outside your general area, it can signal alerts on your card – possibly causing a hold or denied credit. When you let us know your travel plans, we can put a note on your account to allow those transactions.

... The funny thing is all of this trouble to get it and not once has it asked to input a PIN #!! LOL.


I haven't gone through the en tire thread both efore and after this post so forgive me if somebody else brought up what I'm supposed to say.

I read on some blog, maybe here, maybe elsewhere, the same complaint. It involved travel in Canada and somebody used the card and it turned out to be chip and signature and he didn't understand why and called customer service.

What he was told is that if the terminal is set to accept chip and signature, that is the default and a slip is printed for signature. However, if the terminal is not set to accept chip and signature, then it will become chip and pin and according to several here, it has worked in some of the unmanned and unwommaned places where others have reported chip and signature does not work.

Of course, while I have the card, it is only for emergencies as they charge a 1% foreign conversion fee and that's 1% too high for me.

My experience with AFCU has been less than stellar. I only asked for a small limit ($2500.00) as I wanted this a s a "just in case" card. After several days of not hearing anything I sent Customer Service a message via the website. Message was answered today with a request to call them as they needed additional information. They wanted a copy of a pay stub, copy of drivers license and required I open an account with them. Not worth the hassle IMHO, so I'll look elsewhere.

Not worth the hassle IMHO, so I'll look elsewhere.

Unfortunately as of today, there are no "elsewhere" for Chip-and-PIN in the US other than:


Joining UNFCU which has a pre-requisite of working for the UN
SECU which has a pre-requisite of working for the State of NC
Diners Club which isn't taking new applications

Posts discussing places in the USA with working Chip & PIN terminals have been transplanted to this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1304271-usa-emv-cards-available-today-chip-pin-chip-signature.html

Unfortunately as of today, there are no "elsewhere" for Chip-and-PIN in the US other than:


Joining UNFCU which has a pre-requisite of working for the UN
SECU which has a pre-requisite of working for the State of NC
Diners Club which isn't taking new applications


Fortunately for me I have a brother and sister who both work for the State of NC so I am eligible for the SECU card. :)

For anyone that has the card - have you figured out a way to make electronic payments from an account that is NOT your Andrews checking account?

From the Visa Online site I see the link to make a payment online, however when I try and set it up it ONLY includes the option to fill in my Andrews checking account number.

For anyone that has the card - have you figured out a way to make electronic payments from an account that is NOT your Andrews checking account?

From the Visa Online site I see the link to make a payment online, however when I try and set it up it ONLY includes the option to fill in my Andrews checking account number.

Have you tried setting it up from your bank's online bill pay?

i.e. instead of Andrews VISA "pulling" from your BofA, have BofA "push" it to Andrews VISA

Have you tried setting it up from your bank's online bill pay?

i.e. instead of Andrews VISA "pulling" from your BofA, have BofA "push" it to Andrews VISA

I can use the bank's bill pay to cut a physical check and mail it to Visa, but I have a strong preference for doing everything electronically.

I also tried to set up a transfer account from BOA -> Andrews, so I could initiate an electronic funds transfer from BOA -> Andrews and then pay Visa from the Andrews account. However, you need to submit the external transfer account for "approval", and upon doing so (yesterday) I received a message (this morning) saying that the request was denied, as my Andrews account has to be open for "90 days in good standing" before an external transfer account is allowed.

They definitely don't make this easy ...

For anyone that has the card - have you figured out a way to make electronic payments from an account that is NOT your Andrews checking account?

From the Visa Online site I see the link to make a payment online, however when I try and set it up it ONLY includes the option to fill in my Andrews checking account number.

I had the same problem and am not aware of any solution.

I can use the bank's bill pay to cut a physical check and mail it to Visa, but I have a strong preference for doing everything electronically.

I also tried to set up a transfer account from BOA -> Andrews, so I could initiate an electronic funds transfer from BOA -> Andrews and then pay Visa from the Andrews account. However, you need to submit the external transfer account for "approval", and upon doing so (yesterday) I received a message (this morning) saying that the request was denied, as my Andrews account has to be open for "90 days in good standing" before an external transfer account is allowed..
You can push money into Andrews. You just can't pull it in for 90 days. I set the Andrews account up as an external account to transfer to on my banks website. Then I transfered money to Andrews. No problem with that.

? ? can't pull it in for 90 days. ...

Sensible security precaution. Anyone who has ever received a payment from my checking account has all of the information necessary to link it to any USA credit card account (name, routing number, account number). The card issuer can easily verify that a bank account is valid, but not that it legitimately belongs to the cardholder. Many issuers have similar restrictions (though not as extreme) for early electronic payments.

You can push money into Andrews. You just can't pull it in for 90 days. I set the Andrews account up as an external account to transfer to on my banks website. Then I transfered money to Andrews. No problem with that.

Makes sense, although I was trying to avoid this method as well since Bank of America charges a $3 fee per transfer that goes outside of the bank.

I guess this method is YMMV, depending on the source bank and their policies/fees ...

...Bank of America charges a $3 fee per transfer that goes outside...

The suggestion is that you use you Bank of America online billpay service to pay the credit card bill directly, not that you transfer funds from your Bank of America account to your credit union account.

I can use the bank's bill pay to cut a physical check and mail it to Visa, but I have a strong preference for doing everything electronically.

:confused:

Online bill pay is electronic. They don't cut a physical check and send it via snail mail. Once it's set up, it is done the same day and payment is credited at the payee end on the same day.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1iwULVFGAC8/T9TlFna4uPI/AAAAAAAAAKc/u_AsV_vqNLg/s800/Untitled.jpg

:.? online bill pay is electronic. They don't cut a check and send it via snail mail.

It depends on the payee. If you send a payment to a national company the transaction will be completely electronic. If you pay an individual a facsimile check will be mailed. Payments to smaller businesses, including local or regional financial institutions could be processed either way.

deleted to prevent confusion

Online bill pay is electronic. They don't cut a physical check and send it via snail mail. Once it's set up, it is done the same day and payment is credited at the payee end on the same day.


Not sure how I missed that - I must not have drilled down under "credit cards", and instead only scanned the initial list. Thanks very much for the heads up, I'll definitely go this route!

The process took 34 days to actually get the chip and PIN card from Andrews FCU. I had to make several phone calls to keep the process moving along. I was glad to have the instruction from Victoria Hawkins: http://victoria-hawkins.com/archives/744
Otherwise I would probably have give up.

Have you tried it at unattended gas stations, automated train ticket machines, and toll roads? Per reports by RRossi and BeeNYC on that same thread, the Chip-and-PIN does work.

I've now verified that mine works for British rail ticket kiosks. This alone makes it a keeper for me (oh, the many hours I've spent in queues getting tickets when there is a perfectly good kiosk with no queue mere feet away), although I've noticed that it's more likely to behave as Chip-and-Signature than Chip-and-PIN.

I've now verified that mine works for British rail ticket kiosks. This alone makes it a keeper for me (oh, the many hours I've spent in queues getting tickets when there is a perfectly good kiosk with no queue mere feet away), although I've noticed that it's more likely to behave as Chip-and-Signature than Chip-and-PIN.

Glad to hear to hear it works for the rail kiosks. On a side note, there is a possibility that VISA will be moving to chip + PIN domestically by 2015 as there is an initiative to push fraud responsability back to the merchants and as part of that, moving to a chip + PIN architecture would make sense.

We shall see.

Eric

... there is a possibility that VISA will be moving to chip + PIN domestically by 2015

If you mean within the USA, it will be Chip & Signature. VISA considers PIN to be obsolete verification method, and this is the reason none of the USA credit card factory banks have implemented Chip & PIN.

http://blog.visa.com/2012/01/13/as-u-s-chip-adoption-advances-visa-provides-guidance/

If you mean within the USA, it will be Chip & Signature. VISA considers PIN to be obsolete verification method, and this is the reason none of the USA credit card factory banks have implemented Chip & PIN.

(I'll find the article and attach the link to this post.)

Ahhh, thanks Mia! So it'll be Chip and Signature by 2015 then. I know there is supposed to be a Chip component but was not sure if the other part was PIN or signature, but now you've clarified it. We shall see if MasterCard follows suit.

Ahhh, thanks Mia! So it'll be Chip and Signature by 2015 then. I know there is supposed to be a Chip component but was not sure if the other part was PIN or signature, but now you've clarified it. We shall see if MasterCard follows suit.

IIRC,at the present moment there are three different views with regards how to handle EMV in the US from the parties that have stated their EMV conversion plans:

VISA: prefers Chip-and-Signature
i.e.: Office Depot or Staples, when accepting VISA, must process it as Chip-and-Signature

MC: prefers Chip-and-PIN
i.e. Office Depot or Staples, when accepting MC, must process it as Chip-and-PIN

Discover: just do both and let the merchants themselves decide which authentication to use
i.e. Office Depot can choose to use Chip-and-PIN whereas Staples can choose to use Chip-and-Signature when accepting Discover cards

With disparaging ways how to handle EMV conversion, MC recently proposed an industry wide meeting.
http://newsroom.mastercard.com/press-releases/mastercard-to-foster-industry-collaboration-in-preparation-for-emv-migration/


IMO, I prefer the Discover method as it gives choice. Signing or entering a PIN for say a 7-Layer Burrito at Taco Bell would be cumbersome, whereas if one is buying an expensive $2000 flat screen TV at BestBuy, probably would want to be safe to do Chip-and-PIN.

If you mean within the USA, it will be Chip & Signature. VISA considers PIN to be obsolete verification method, and this is the reason none of the USA credit card factory banks have implemented Chip & PIN.

http://blog.visa.com/2012/01/13/as-u-s-chip-adoption-advances-visa-provides-guidance/
That blog posting is very interesting. Thank you for pointing it out, mia.

It clarifies two issues:
1. Chip-and-PIN is usable in situations where real-time transaction reporting isn't possible, where mag stripe is not (except for small transactions).
2. If you use a chip-and-PIN card to buy something and the terminal somehow reveals your PIN to the bad guys, you may have a serious situation.

The PIN can be changed at an ATM in countries where Chip & PIN is the norm, because the machines have the hardware and software to write to the chip. Such ATM's do not exist in the USA, and there is effectively no way to change the PIN. I do not know if Andrews permits PIN changes when travelling in Chip & PIN countries.

I just got my card this week. The whole process took about 2 weeks from joining CU and applying for the CC to getting the cards and PIN. They handled everything well, including their document requests. I belonged to a local credit union until a 2-3 years ago and remember going through a similar process to get its credit card product. I suspect CUs being smaller then the big banks have to be much more cautious about issuing credit.

Interestingly, when I called Andrews regarding some credit card questions I had, I inquired about the possiblity of customizing the PIN. The CSR confirmed that it can't be customized (which I assumed) but can be changed. If I request to change the PIN, the CU would send the request to VISA and they process the change (new random PIN). He wasn't clear how it be recorded on the current chip or whether I would get a new card. Since I can't customize it, there is no need for me to change it and I didn't request further clarification.

I can also confirm that the PIN portion works! Finally yesterday I had a chance to use it when it finally asked for the PIN. I was going from Paris to Versailles on the SCNF train and I tried to use my Citibank PIN card and it didn't work as it's only Chip + Signature. I then tried my Andrews Visa card and indeed it did ask for a PIN and it worked.

So I agree, that alone being able to use it on Trains in Europe is worth it. So I'm glad that I went through all that trouble to have a Chip + PIN card.

Just back from a 2 1/2 week European visit which included a 1 week cruise out of Barcelona, an Easy Jet flight to Paris for a few days and Eurostar to London for 6 days. Used several cards but wanted to give the Andrews card a good work out but since they impose a 1% foreign transaction fee, 1% too high for me and have no rewards, used it for relatively small purchases. It worked everywhere including an RATP machines where I had had trouble in the past with a magnetic strip card but....

In every case I was not asked for a PIN...it functioned as a chip and signature card (just reporting, not complaining) except in the RATP machine where no signature was called for nor any PIN.

The one problem I did have occurred at a T Mobile UK store where I had to get a new sim card for my stick modem. They told me they no longer took swipe cards, okay so out came the Andrews card.....transaction denied. I had to ernd up paying cash (OUCH; it hurt big time to hand over a £10 bank note and get back a £2 coin and a £1 coin...only time all week I had to spend cash for anything in London...boy did I become addicted to their diet coke with cherry..nothing like American cherry diet coke at 2 for £1.60 for a 500 ml bottle...and the clerks at the stores never said a word when I used my cards to purchase them).

In any event, more on topic, the interesting thing was when I called Andrews (but don't fret, I have a service that charges me 3p/minute to call the USA from my UK mobile phone timed to the second) they claimed they had not declined the charge....the charge had never reached the other side of the pond.....does happen sometimes...should have insisted they try it again.

Apparently the Andrews card defaul is chip and signature and only if chip ad signature is not accepted, as it was almost everywhere I tried it, then goes to chip and pin.

...T Mobile UK store where I had to get a new sim card for my stick modem. They told me they no longer took swipe cards,

Apparently the Andrews card defaul is chip and signature and only if chip ad signature is not accepted, as it was almost everywhere I tried it, then goes to chip and pin.

Thank you for the detailed report. The UK mobile network "3" has the same Chip & PIN only policy. I paid using my UK debit card which earns no rewards :rolleyes:.

Your experience confirms previous reports that the Andrews card defaults to Chip & Signature mode, and suggests that a Chase or Citi Chip & Signature card (or even a swipe card) is very usable in the UK.

My sense is that zero FTF is still more important than EMV when choosing which card to use.

As others are reporting, I used my Andrews card in Hungary last week for a couple of small purchases, and it was treated as chip & sign--no hesitation from the vendor. As a side note, I had no problem using my old swipe card anywhere in Budapest, Vienna, and Prague, but I didn't use any unmanned ticket machines.

I have been traveling in France, and Ireland and have been using both magnetic swipe cards the Andrews Chip and PIN card.
Generally no problems with swipe cards in well trafficked tourist areas. Only once was my swipe card rejected completely and that was in a small neighborhood convenience store in Ireland where I was told they no longer accepted swipe cards. Last year they were still accepting the swipe card at that store.
The Andrews card worked everywhere, and almost exclusively as a Chip & Sig card. Only once was my PIN requested and that was at the RER station in Versailles. Elsewhere in the Paris Metro/RER system the card worked and no PIN was requested.

In some places the checkout person was somewhat unsure about how to deal with the signature aspect of the Chip card.

They are clearly overwhelmed by applications. I applied for a savings account and credit card on June 27, was approved for the credit card on July 2, and still haven't received the papers to sign for the card. They just told me to call them back in a day or two after I sign the materials (when I eventually get them) to ensure they got it (via email, no less!) and then I will have to wait an additional 10-14 business days to get the card and pin in the mail. At this rate, I think 14 business days is very optimistic, given how they have operated to date. I can also pay them $50 to fedex the card and pin to me ($25 for each)--but that seems crazy! Who would have thought that when I applied on June 27 that there was a good shot that I wouldn't get the card in time for my Aug. 9 departure for Europe?!?!
(In contrast, I called Citibank on Fri. June 29 to report that my MasterCard was lost...and I received a new card via Fedex from them--at no charge--the next day.)

They are clearly overwhelmed by applications.

I'd imagine so.

Up until State Dept FCU came along, Andrews FCU was the only credit union that issued EMV Chip-and-PIN cards (more so at 0% annual fee!) that any American can apply (unlike the more stricter membership qualification places like working for the UN or the State of NC)so it's understandable that they'll get the full blast from those that have been yearning for such a card for a long time.

OTOH, I would be interested to know how many new active CU members they've gained from being (at least up to now) the sole provider of Chip-and-PIN cards in the US.

One thing is that I've actually started using Andrews FCU to do some of my banking needs. Still a customer of BofA as my main bank, but I have opened up a free checking account with $1000 as my "emergency cash" and started utilizing their savings account at Andrews FCU more as they have a better interest rate than BofA.

Being able to make deposits at shared branches and depositing checks at 7-11 VCOM machines were also an interesting experience. Never joined a CU until Andrews FCU so it really opened up my eyes to a different style of banking.

I also have the AFCU card and have noticed the same thing in Indonesia and Australia that others have noticed in Europe: I've never had to use the PIN for face to face transactions.

Unfortunately, I found a situation where it doesn't work. In both Melbourne and Sydney, transit ticket machines require PINs. They appear to use swipe and PIN, and like most Australian POS terminals, they ask "chequing, savings, or credit" even on a card that's solely a credit card. Both cities' machines asked for my PIN, and both refused my transaction. The machines take cash, so no loss, but I was hoping it'd work.

I would have tried my ATM card, but I stupidly let an ATM in Denpasar eat it by failing to push the "done" button after grabbing my cash. This led me to another side benefit of the AFCU card: no cash advance fee. Instant interest, yes, but 1/12 of 8% is cheaper than having someone overnight my new ATM card and far better than amex's 3% fee for a direct withdrawal from my bank account. What possessed me to leave my other ATM card at home is beyond me, but thanks to AFCU it was a sub-$10 mistake.

Semi-OT, the number of places that don't take amex or apply a surcharge not applied to Visa/MC surprised me. I paid a lot of 1% forex fee to Visa on this trip.

I obtained my Andrews FCU card after many back-and-forth exchanges with customer service. Thanks to everyone for the excellent reporting on the application process (hint: if you don't actively pursue your application by sending in the secondary materials -- paystubs, identification -- it will lie idle).

Friends just returned from a month in France. They report that the Andrews card was usable at any kiosk for amounts up to 50 Euro. It was, however, unable to support an unattended transaction for more than that, and our friends were never asked for a PIN. (They used other credit cards for attended transactions because other cards have lower FX rates.)

This suggests that some card readers can't properly handle cards that don't default to chip-and-PIN. But then, I've had a Travelex chip-and-PIN-only cash card rejected (in the Munich U-Bahn). So who knows.

Thanks to previous posters for valuable info on application and use of this card. Here's my experience with the application process.

Jun 19: applied online for AFCU shares (i.e., savings) account. Called to ask whether I could add spouse to account on the signature form you have to print out and mail in. CSR said sure, but couldn't find my application and suggested I call back in a couple days. He said they had some computer issues.

Jun 23: Called and CSR still couldn't find my application. Since I was going to be near their home office the following week, I asked whether an in-person visit might help and she said yes. Probably glad to get me off the phone so easily. About an hour after that call, got 2 emails "welcome to AFCU" etc. One said if you didn't get your account number, to call them. I figured I would deal with it on site.

Jun 25: Visit office. CSR finds application, said it was approved on Saturday; must have been what prompted those emails after phone call. It was at this visit that I applied for Visa card. CSR said loan officer would review application and let me know the outcome in 15-20 minutes. After about 10 minutes wait, CSR said they needed last 2 paystubs, which I was able to print out that evening.

Jun 26: Visit #2. Submit paystubs. Did electronic signature on "loan" documents. CSR and I watched and waited for her slow motion computer to display each document in turn. She confirmed that they had a lot of interest in their chip+pin card. OK - finally done. Anything else you need? No, that should do it.

Jun 27: Phone call from AFCU - you are approved for Visa. Now, we just need you to tell us a secret password that you will use to identify yourself when you call AFCU to discuss your accounts. Now I am determined to drive this process to conclusion, so I ask if I can come in to select one. "Oh sure, the receptionist can handle that for you." :mad:

So...Visit #3. See receptionist, assign password, and done.

Jul 7: Receive Visa card and PIN in separate letters. Yay! Activated and used the card. So far, so good on stateside transactions. Will test it out on kiosks in Germany in a month.

I strongly recommend allowing at least a full calendar month from start of process to card in hand and ready to shop. Better if you have 2 months. And be ready to nurse the paperwork along, whether in person or by phone. If you don't have credit union experience, be aware that using CU services means being a member, which means opening a shares account (or maybe checking would work).

I encountered some of the delays and requests for additional info that others have reported, but not necessarily in the same sequence. AFCU could definitely use a scrub of their processes and a major upgrade of their computer system. Found out that I can't do ACH transactions in or out of the shares account for first 90 days. Sheesh!

One more note: if you want to review your charge transactions, you'll need to login from the "SignOn" item at the top of the AFCU home page. The more prominent login box only gets to your shares account.

Happy charging.

Found out that I can't do ACH transactions in or out of the shares account for first 90 days. Sheesh!

I've also found that for the first month when you make check deposits at a shared branch, they put a close to two week hold on the check! :eek:

OTOH, once you get past those quirks, having a checking and savings account with a CU is not that bad; there are places that I travel to within the US where there are no BofA branches, so having a shared branch CU/co-op ATM that I can fall back on when I'm visiting places like North Dakota or Alabama are good back up.

Update: I got my pin on July 19, and got my card on July 20. Total time elapse between applying for the card and finally receiving it: 23 days.

Other quirks, positive and negative that may be relevant:
--you can't transfer money electronically into the savings account for the first 90 days..which means you have to use a Andrews branch or a shared branch to make a deposit.
--you can't get an e-statement for your savings account for the first 90 days.
--so far, I haven't figured out a way to pay my credit card bill electronically from a non-Andrews account. I don't know if this is due to the same 90-day window business that other electronic transfers are subject to, or a permanent feature. If a permanent feature, that is a bummer, because I don't think I've written a check to cover a credit card bill in years and years.
--evidently, there is no fee--at least charged by Andrews--to withdraw funds overseas from you savings account via your ATM. They have no control over the fees that may be charged by a foreign bank. (Once I can make electronic transfers, I will likely make my Andrews account the go-to account for cash withdrawals overseas..)
--
--

so far, I haven't figured out a way to pay my credit card bill electronically from a non-Andrews account.

Online billpay works through BofA. Not sure with other banks though.

--so far, I haven't figured out a way to pay my credit card bill electronically from a non-Andrews account. I don't know if this is due to the same 90-day window business that other electronic transfers are subject to, or a permanent feature. If a permanent feature, that is a bummer, because I don't think I've written a check to cover a credit card bill in years and years.

--


Use your bank's online bill pay service and enter the payment information per the credit card statement.

The bill pay service can most likely push the payment through electronically.
( And if they cannot, your bank will print & mail a check for you)

The BofA online billpay to Andrews FCU VISA is also mentioned by myself in post #103 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18731748-post103.html) of this thread.

Online billpay works through BofA. Not sure with other banks though.

USAA's billpay works fine for Andrews CFU card payments.

For those who used online billpay - what name and address info did you use?

I just tried my bank's online billpay with various name/address combos, and could not get it to recognize any of the AFCU options. Tried the home office in Suitland MD and of course the VISA remit address in Charlotte NC. No luck recognizing a payee.

My bank was ready to cut a check and mail it to them, but I can do that myself.

When I logged onto my AFCU VISA account, my only electronic payment option was from an AFCU checking account, which I don't have. But I did notice that my shares account comes with a companion account titled something like "VISA payment" account. Sounds promising, so I signed that one up for payments. Now, I just have to get money into it - another multi-step process:

1. Go to local affiliate CU and make a deposit
2. New account, so wait 2 weeks for $ to be available, as somebody else noted
3. Transfer from regular shares account to VISA payment account - the first all-electronic step! Maybe we're getting somewhere.
4. Pay VISA bill from VISA payment savings account. (That assumes that the system didn't choke when I registered the account for payment. It clearly wanted a checking account number.)

They sure don't make this easy. Oh heck, I'll just send them a check...:confused:

For those who used online billpay - what name and address info did you use?

I'm not sure about other banks, but for BofA, "Andrews FCU VISA" comes up as soon as I type in "Andrews" into the search bar when adding an online bill pay pay-to account.

Address isn't shown.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-L1zfyp10Gxs/UBHO_0u9s0I/AAAAAAAAAK4/rUPERugt9N0/s800/Untitled.jpg


My bank was ready to cut a check and mail it to them, but I can do that myself.

Yeah, but the cost of stamps, envelopes, and check is on the bank's dime...er whatever the price of the Forever stamp is these days. :D

I use bill pay through my Fidelity Brokerage account and it came right up...I've made a couple of payments the past two months, well I've actually made one payment and it went through fine electronically...the second one to cover a few charges I made while in London and Paris this past June has been schedued for three days before the payment due date in August.

Thanks to all who suggested paying via online banking--I was able to schedule a payment to Andrews FCU Visa that way. Andrews told me that after 90 days, I will be able to schedule ACH payments from my regular (non Andrews) checking account via their website, the same way I schedule payments for my other credit cards. It seems they (Andrews) place a general 90-day wait period on new accounts for a variety of services that other financial institutions probably grant nearly immediately (e.g. electronic statements, ACH transfers etc.)
I was also able to get around the long clearing time for checks. I just made a deposit at a shared banking site in my hometown, written on my hometown (non credit union) bank. (I don't live anywhere near an Andrews branch.) Since it was a local check, it cleared in two days.
The 90-day business, unbelievably, may also apply to making deposits via ATM during non-business hours at an Andrews branch! Last weekend, I was out of town, and when I realized I would be near an Andrews branch, I made a special trip to make a deposit, since I thought I could reduce the amount of time it would take to clear the check. The ATM machine had a slot for deposits--but it didn't offer me the option of making a deposit when I stuck in the card, just withdrawal. An Andrews rep later told me that this was also due to the 90-day business. Since it is unlikely that I will be near an Andrews branch for quite a while, I don't know when I'll be able to test this again.

I was also able to get around the long clearing time for checks. I just made a deposit at a shared banking site in my hometown, written on my hometown (non credit union) bank. (I don't live anywhere near an Andrews branch.) Since it was a local check, it cleared in two days.


Yesterday, I did the same thing - now tracking to see how long it takes for the deposit to be added to "available" funds in my AFCU account. But I also took the wimpy way out and paid my first AFCU VISA bill by old fashioned check about three weeks before it's due. Now the card goes in a drawer until travel to Europe in late August, just to avoid any further peculiarities. I wonder how many phone calls it will take to convince them to put a notice on my account to allow charges in Europe... Hope that isn't another 90-day stay in the penalty box!

And speaking of the 90-day wait on ACH transfers, I guess I can understand some waiting period on transfers out, but why a hold on transfers in?? Oh well, after 90 days you get full citizenship rights.

Note to anyone reading these posts and wondering about signing up for the AFCU chip-and-pin VISA: I still think it's worth the hassle, but you should allow plenty of time for all the startup blips to settle out. Think in terms of months.

I would look at the BankAmerica Visa Signature Travel Rewards credit card as the application process is straight forward and they give 10% bonuses to their clients. In addition there is no annual fee, foreign transaction fee. Your points never expire and you can use your points for statement credits etc.

I would look at the BankAmerica Visa Signature Travel Rewards credit card as the application process is straight forward and they give 10% bonuses to their clients. In addition there is no annual fee, foreign transaction fee. Your points never expire and you can use your points for statement credits etc.

There are a lot of good chip-and-signatures cards out there from issuers such as citi and chase. There reason people are willing to go through this grueling process with this esoteric credit union is it being the pretty much the only chip-and-pin option available today to the general public.

....but the BofA travel rewards card is just about the first with no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee (most citi cards with the chip, for example, unless they're very very premium have the dreaded 3% foreign transactin fee)......this is sort of the first emv card for the masses so to speak (bear in mind, the Andrews card has a 1% foreign transaction fee so it wouldn't be my default choice).

I seem to have had a better experience (so far) with the app process.

I applied and asked for $10K, on 6 Aug about 12noon. I added a note saying I was leaving for Europe in 3 weeks. Received document request (paystubs only), and instructions to sign up for credit union, by e-mail within 2 hours. E-mailed PDF files and signed up as instructed. Received e-mail request to sign forms, the following morning (7 Aug). I e-mailed scans of signed forms, and received e-mail notice within minutes that the card had been ordered.

Of course I don't know yet how long it will take for the card and PIN to arrive, but at least the start of the process seems to have been streamlined. There is more human involvement here than the major card issuers use, so maybe my note about leaving for Europe was read by someone.

Regarding all the reports of not being asked for either PIN or signature, even in the US many small charges (e.g. soft drink machines, NYC metrocards, grocery stores under $xx) don't require signature. So I would guess that the cards work in Europe in a similar way, i.e. as chip-and-signature-except-no-signature-for-small-amount. Priority for chip-and-pin would make it more secure, but priority for chip-and-signature makes it faster (in such cases).

I went through the process, and while it was a bit of a hassle, thanks to the forum posts here I got my card in under 2 weeks start to finish. It wasn't even that much extra info, really just your W-2, which I was able to email to them instead of fax.

I just got back from Norway and the Netherlands where the card worked great. At staffed places (convenience stores, supermarkets) the cash registers automatically spat out a signature page - so even in those cases easier than a swipe card where you have to guess which button or series of buttons to push to make it print the signature page. However, the real gold was when I went to buy Tram tickets in Amsterdam - at the kiosk machine with a big sign on it "CHIP AND PIN ONLY". Stuck in my GlobeTrek Visa, entered my PIN, and got my two tram tickets. No problem. Super happy with it.

It's definitely a little weird, for example I can't get it to download to Quicken, but since it's the only chip and pin card out there... it can't be beat.

I have traveled in Europe quite a bit this summer. Wherever possible, I used swipe-and-sign cards from CapOne, Chase or HSBC, to take advantage of their 0% forex and rewards programs. I only used Andrews where chip was required. Here is a report of where I used Andrews.

Automated gas station in Portugal: chip required, inserted Andrews card, entered PIN, it just worked.

Eroski supermarket in Spain: I tried to pay with chipless card, clerk wanted to see ID to allow a signature card. No ID on me. So I presented the Andrews card, clerk saw the chip and was happy to process the sale. The terminal prompted me to confirm the amount, I approved, but then did not prompt for a PIN. It was processing as chip-and-signature, as others have reported here. The paper slip printed for my signature, and the clerk was pretty p*ssed. She had never experienced a chip card that required signature, and now she was faced with having to accept a signature without ID. And so it was. Clerk was not happy, but I got my groceries.

Automated parking lot in Spain: chip required, used Andrews card, it worked.

Automated train ticket machine in Germany (Deutsche Bahn machine): here I don't know whether the machine would have taken a swipe or not. I had about one minute until my train, so I decided to go straight for the Andrews card instead of trying one of the others and risk failing the first attempt and miss my train. Andrews worked.

And that's it. I also traveled and used credit cards in the UK, Czech Republic, Austria, Greece, Cyprus, Turkey, Israel and Malta. In those countries, for the transactions I attempted, I was always able to use a swipe card and never had reason to use the Andrews Globetrek card.

I have traveled in Europe quite a bit this summer. Wherever possible, I used swipe-and-sign cards from CapOne, Chase or HSBC, to take advantage of their 0% forex and rewards programs. I only used Andrews where chip was required. Here is a report of where I used Andrews.

Automated gas station in Portugal: chip required, inserted Andrews card, entered PIN, it just worked.

Eroski supermarket in Spain: I tried to pay with chipless card, clerk wanted to see ID to allow a signature card. No ID on me. So I presented the Andrews card, clerk saw the chip and was happy to process the sale. The terminal prompted me to confirm the amount, I approved, but then did not prompt for a PIN. It was processing as chip-and-signature, as others have reported here. The paper slip printed for my signature, and the clerk was pretty p*ssed. She had never experienced a chip card that required signature, and now she was faced with having to accept a signature without ID. And so it was. Clerk was not happy, but I got my groceries.

Automated parking lot in Spain: chip required, used Andrews card, it worked.

Automated train ticket machine in Germany (Deutsche Bahn machine): here I don't know whether the machine would have taken a swipe or not. I had about one minute until my train, so I decided to go straight for the Andrews card instead of trying one of the others and risk failing the first attempt and miss my train. Andrews worked.

And that's it. I also traveled and used credit cards in the UK, Czech Republic, Austria, Greece, Cyprus, Turkey, Israel and Malta. In those countries, for the transactions I attempted, I was always able to use a swipe card and never had reason to use the Andrews Globetrek card.

And so...maybe it's time to inform Andrews that they are losing lots of sales because of the foreign transaction fee and a good reaon to switch to State Department FCU. Imagine having to pay an extra 1% for no discernible reason.

And so...maybe it's time to inform Andrews that they are losing lots of sales because of the foreign transaction fee and a good reaon to switch to State Department FCU. Imagine having to pay an extra 1% for no discernible reason.

Well, the extra 1% did not bother me much. Let's see... $25 gas, $6 parking, $8 groceries, $12 train. Total $51 over 2 months. $0.51 cents fee for the convenience of using a chip card is totally worth it. The prospects of saving $0.51 next year are not enough to get me to switch to SDFCU. I will just stick with Andrews, at the grave risk of paying another $0.51 next year.

Well, the extra 1% did not bother me much. Let's see... $25 gas, $6 parking, $8 groceries, $12 train. Total $51 over 2 months. $0.51 cents fee for the convenience of using a chip card is totally worth it. The prospects of saving $0.51 next year are not enough to get me to switch to SDFCU. I will just stick with Andrews, at the grave risk of paying another $0.51 next year.

True but if you stay at a hotel charging $250/night for 3 nights and their magnetic strip machines isn't functioning, that's $7.50 followed by a nice meal for $80 followed by an entertaining night out on the town. The key variable, which nobody knows the answer to, is how much longer magnetic strip cards will have wide acceptance. Now frankly I don't think anything is imminent on this but what's to keep the bureaucrats at the eu, many of whom always are looking to screw things common to America as their ultimate goal is to supplant the United States as the primary economic power (at least that's Angela Merkel's view of the world) from imposing a requirement that only chip and pin cards will be accepted in the eu beginning (pick a date).....Likely, probably not but you never know.

True but if you stay at a hotel charging $250/night for 3 nights and their magnetic strip machines isn't functioning, that's $7.50 followed by a nice meal for $80 followed by an entertaining night out on the town. The key variable, which nobody knows the answer to, is how much longer magnetic strip cards will have wide acceptance. Now frankly I don't think anything is imminent on this but what's to keep the bureaucrats at the eu, many of whom always are looking to screw things common to America as their ultimate goal is to supplant the United States as the primary economic power (at least that's Angela Merkel's view of the world) from imposing a requirement that only chip and pin cards will be accepted in the eu beginning (pick a date).....Likely, probably not but you never know.

If I stay at a hotel charging $250/night for 3 nights, that hotel better figure out how to get their credit card machine working. I want my 1500 miles out of that stay!

Yes, while acceptance of swipe-only is declining, issuance of chip cards by other US banks is increasing. This Andrews solution is only an interim solution to close a time gap. I would bet that by the time swipe if phased out in Europe there will be many US issuers of chipped cards. We are already seeing select chipped card offers by many mainstream US banks, as evidenced by other threads here on FT.

And so...maybe it's time to inform Andrews that they are losing lots of sales because of the foreign transaction fee and a good reaon to switch to State Department FCU. Imagine having to pay an extra 1% for no discernible reason.

When you joined Andrews FCU, you became a shareholder. If many shareholders start writing to them about this, they just might waive the 1% forex fee. A good example would be write them with explanation of other banks and CUs that do not charge forex fees (i.e. BofA Travel Rewards, SDFCU, Chase Hyatt, CapOne, etc.)

If I stay at a hotel charging $250/night for 3 nights, that hotel better figure out how to get their credit card machine working. I want my 1500 miles out of that stay!

Yes, while acceptance of swipe-only is declining, issuance of chip cards by other US banks is increasing. This Andrews solution is only an interim solution to close a time gap. I would bet that by the time swipe if phased out in Europe there will be many US issuers of chipped cards. We are already seeing select chipped card offers by many mainstream US banks, as evidenced by other threads here on FT.

You do understand I was talking a bit tongue in cheek. It is interesting though the way this has been evolving. Chase and citi started out by offering chipped cards but only for their premium cards with annual fees and/or the 3% foreign transaction fees (those cards without foreign transaction fees had large annual fees)...it didn't set off a revolution of course (as people argue here the vast majority of Americans do not travel as much as FTers do so this is sort of a biased blog in tht respect)...next we had Andrews followed by State Department. We've had several credit unions with the prepaid debit chipped card although with asinine fees for things such as reloading the cards.

Now the next breakthrough might be the Bank of America travel rewards card obviously aimed at a specific market (no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee but chip and signature not chip and pin).

The "revolution" has been very slow though. I will believe it is well under way if and when Capital One who although sme disagree with me relies on its policy of no foreign transaction fee to help build up its portfolio although it may not be the only reason for people to carry this card, it is one of the reasns, begins offering chipped cards. This is the perfect opportunity for them as an innovative bank, if indeed they are one, not only to offer a chipped card but to offer a true chip and pin card. Not to have their customer reps tell people who call to complain that the merchant agreements require all merchants to accept their antiquated magnetic strip cards (try telling that to an unmanned or unwomanned kiosk).

But I do agree. I carry the Andrews card for the same reason but until after my last trip, the only chipped card I had was my AA frequent flyer master card with its $95 annual fee and its 3% foreign transaction fee just in case.....

My cards don't work for SNCF kiosks in France nor the Autoroutes tolls. That includes the Star One EMV.

Meanwhile I see people using their Visa branded cards. If visa can issue them in Europe and elsewhere why not just issue them in the US.

They're going to lose a lof of charges just on this shore trip, maybe enough to offset the costs of the chip on my cards.

nevermind!

Star One EMV doesn't work. In fact none of my cards worked at the counter even for purchasing train tickets at the Cannes station.

Doesn't work at highway toll booths either. In 2007 my stripe cards were fine.

Well an attendant had to come out and handle the cash. So it's rather pointless of them to put in offline chip terminals because they still have attendants around.

And Visa for its part issues the EMV cards to Europeans so why not put them on all US cards? Bet the transactions they lose is greater than the incremental costs of the chip.

nevermind!

Decided to do this myself, since (a) I'm constantly annoyed by not being able to use the kiosks at UK rail stations with a signature card, and (b) have a trip planned to drive the Ring Road in Iceland, and two other people I've known to do it recommended either getting a chip-and-pin card, or a prepaid Icelandic gas card, so that you have more fueling opportunities in the back road of Iceland.

Well, as far as I can tell, the GlobeTrek card didn't work anywhere in Iceland, so it was a disappointment there (which was a PITA, at one point in the eastern fjords, the easiest way for me to tank up was to pay cash to a local, and have them fill me up on their card)

I'm still keeping it, since I know it works well in the UK.

I'm in Frankfurt am Main later this month, so I'll try it there as well.

So is the Andrews FCU and SDFCU cards as well. Though they are prioritized to default as Chip-and-Signature, they do fall back upon true Chip-and-PIN to cover offline chip transactions.

Tester: BeeNYC report (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18376758-post25.html), RRossi report (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18471630-post30.html)

Also, CUs have also started offering prepaid EMV Chip-and-PIN cards which offer far better rates than the Travelex solution.

Overall, I say the options and choices available today is whole lot better than two years ago when the only option to get one was working for the UN. :eek:
So, just to chime in as an Andrews FCU Chip card owner...

It is NOT chip-and-pin. Never. No matter what, at least in France. I spent the better part of a month and a half there trying it out in metro/train vending machines, tabaac stores, [, gas stations] restaurants, ATM's, etc -- you name it (I'm guessing at least 50 swipes of the card). It never, ever works when a PIN is required. It simply doesn't work.

Specific example: If you use an ATM or a metro/train vending machine, and your purchase is over a small amount (not exactly sure how much but something over 60 EUR is about right), it requests a PIN -- but NOT with the Andrews FCU card. It just rejects the card.

Another Specific Example: If you're at a restaurant and you try to use the card as a chip and pin card, the machines will reject it. You can of course use it like a regular card and sign. Except in places where they require the PIN. If a place requires a PIN with a CHIP card, the Andrews FCU card WILL NOT WORK.

I've seen a bunch of people saying it works fine -- and to address BeeNYC report (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18376758-post25.html), RRossi report (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18471630-post30.html)
-- I strongly suspect that they're not using it in vending machines where the limit requires a PIN and/or they're always signing for things in restaurants/stores/etc., and they've never run across a vendor with a machine that doesn't permit a signature with a CHIP card. Again, if you have a CHIP and SIGNATURE card, it will work EXACTLY as described in the above reports. It is only when the amount you're spending is in excess of about 50 - 60 EUR that a PIN in a vending machine is required. The only way to KNOW the PIN is working is to have someone use the card and actually enter the PIN. I don't think I've seen a single successful report of that. If you read the two ones linked above, they pretty clearly say they were never asked for the PIN, or it just asked for signature.

So, not to hijack the whole thread on Andrews FCU CHIP card, but just to rebut the claim that they're are many good CHIP and PIN alternatives available -- this one IS NOT CHIP AND PIN (at least in France).

P.S. Really extremely disappointed with archaic customer service at Andrews FCU and would never recommend them for that reason.

A good test would have been filling up gas.

A good test would have been filling up gas.
Presuming you're talking about Andrews FCU, I tried that too. Doesn't work unless price of tank is below the limit.

nevermind!

I'm seconding rickolis. I used my card throughout the Netherlands last month. Any place there was no attendant, it worked as a chip & PIN--yes, I had to punch in my PIN number, even if the transaction was for a small amount. Any place there was an attendant/shop keeper, it reverted to a chip & signature card.

Sorry to hear that it didn't work in France for you, svft. I'll be in the UK later this year, and look forward to trying it there, too.

Maybe svft's card didn't work because the pin is not encoded on the chip, in which case it would only work at online locations. If he tried to use the card at offline locations the machine would try to read the pin on the chip, not find it, and reject the card.
I got an AFCU card a few weeks ago and would like to find out whether it has the pin encoded on the chip. I will probably call Andrews on Monday and ask; meantime, anyone have info about the matter of whether Andrews encodes its card with the pin?

Just got back from Germany - maiden voyage for my AFCU Globe Trek card. Mixed results.

Before we left, I called the card processor's 800 number to alert them to pending travel. At the end of that call, the agent said I should also call AFCU and tell them the same info. Why? Well, just because that's what we do. Why indeed! Nobody could give me a good answer on that one. OK, so I called. Each call seemed to take way more time than it ought to. Anyone else have to go through this?

First in-country use was at the Wiesbaden train station buying S-bahn tickets to Frankfurt from an agent. She asked if the card was new and had to swipe it 2-3 times; also stuck it in the chip reader. Finally OK and sold us 2 round-trip tix for about 27 Euros. No signature required, and no PIN requested.

In Frankfurt, tried to buy 2 "Frankfurt Card" day passes for unlimited tram/bus use. Could not get the card accepted in 3 different ticket machines. Standing in slow-moving line at a busy ticket office and getting very crabby, wife suggests "why don't you just use cash?" <Oh, Duh!> Back to the ticket machine which happily accepts cash and off we go.

Later, back in Wiesbaden, I try the card at a bus stop ticket machine - no luck. Machine asks for PIN which I enter, then the transaction is denied. And yes, I used the right PIN. Possible explanations why my unattended transactions didn't work: (1) I missed some essential step in directions (I speak some German, but have no prior experience with European ticket kiosks); (2) the transaction was too small, so machine wanted a cash payment - got no indication of this, however. Can't come up with any others.

Over next 2 weeks, used the AFCU card about 10 times for various transactions, mostly small (Euro 20-50). All were in-person with hotels or merchants, accepted with no problem, and all required my signature. On most of these, the card was read with a swipe reader. On one big purchase (Euro 950), the merchant swiped the card, then stuck the chip end into a chip reader, and I was asked to sign, but no PIN required.

Bottom line: I have yet another working VISA card, but no idea whether it works at unattended kiosks, which is why I went through the hassles to get it in the first place.

I suppose I could verify the PIN with AFCU and/or the card processor and ask them why the transactions didn't work, but I don't anticipate a very useful answer. And, I would rather get an independent verification in "live fire" conditions. Anybody have thoughts on how to test Chip-and-PIN around Chicago? :)

Better luck to you all

However, Amsterdam Schiphol kiosks also accept regular non-chipped US debit cards.

First in-country use was at the Wiesbaden train station buying S-bahn tickets to Frankfurt from an agent. She asked if the card was new and had to swipe it 2-3 times; also stuck it in the chip reader. Finally OK and sold us 2 round-trip tix for about 27 Euros. No signature required, and no PIN requested.

In Frankfurt, tried to buy 2 "Frankfurt Card" day passes for unlimited tram/bus use. Could not get the card accepted in 3 different ticket machines. Standing in slow-moving line at a busy ticket office and getting very crabby, wife suggests "why don't you just use cash?" <Oh, Duh!> Back to the ticket machine which happily accepts cash and off we go.

Later, back in Wiesbaden, I try the card at a bus stop ticket machine - no luck. Machine asks for PIN which I enter, then the transaction is denied. And yes, I used the right PIN. Possible explanations why my unattended transactions didn't work: (1) I missed some essential step in directions (I speak some German, but have no prior experience with European ticket kiosks); (2) the transaction was too small, so machine wanted a cash payment - got no indication of this, however. Can't come up with any others.

Over next 2 weeks, used the AFCU card about 10 times for various transactions, mostly small (Euro 20-50). All were in-person with hotels or merchants, accepted with no problem, and all required my signature. On most of these, the card was read with a swipe reader. On one big purchase (Euro 950), the merchant swiped the card, then stuck the chip end into a chip reader, and I was asked to sign, but no PIN required.

Bottom line: I have yet another working VISA card, but no idea whether it works at unattended kiosks, which is why I went through the hassles to get it in the first place.

Both of these reports are consistent with what I've been saying.
I believe: From what I know of the differences (which, I guess could be incomplete), the card appears to be a CHIP-AND-SIGNATURE card. It does work where a CHIP-ONLY, CHIP-AND-SIGNATURE card works. But NOT where CHIP-AND-PIN *ONLY* is required.

Would love to hear someone use it on a machine that ONLY accepts CHIP-AND-PIN cards *at the amount being charged*. There isn't one in this entire thread in any country SFAIK.

Both of these reports are consistent with what I've been saying.
I believe: From what I know of the differences (which, I guess could be incomplete), the card appears to be a CHIP-AND-SIGNATURE card. It does work where a CHIP-ONLY, CHIP-AND-SIGNATURE card works. But NOT where CHIP-AND-PIN *ONLY* is required.

Would love to hear someone use it on a machine that ONLY accepts CHIP-AND-PIN cards *at the amount being charged*. There isn't one in this entire thread in any country SFAIK.

Their claim is to agree the card defaults as chip and signature but they claim if chip and pin is needed, it will work as chip and pin. Of course in many cases, it has been claimed that for example in France the unmanned gas pumps will only work with French cfredit cars and not with credit cards from any other country even if part of the eu. Don't know who's right here.

The Andrews card worked for me in Holland as chip & PIN when there was no attendant;...

... Any place there was no attendant, it worked as a chip & PIN--yes, I had to punch in my PIN number,

But NOT where CHIP-AND-PIN *ONLY* is required.


:confused: Both of these reports explicitly state that they used the card with a PIN. It sounds as if your card may be defective.

I followed the recommendation made by Kebosabi and wrote to Andrews FCU to suggest the elimination of the 1% foreign transaction fee on Globe Trek Visa.

To my surprise, I was informed that the 1% foreign transaction fee has been eliminated since Aug. 21, 2012. The information on its website (http://www.andrewsfcu.org/credit_cards_and_loans/credit_cards/globetrek_rewards.html) has been updated to reflect the removal of the 1% FTF on Globe Trek Visa.

I followed the recommendation made by Kebosabi and wrote to Andrews FCU to suggest the elimination of the 1% foreign transaction fee on Globe Trek Visa.

To my surprise, I was informed that the 1% foreign transaction fee has been eliminated since Aug. 21, 2012. The information on its website (http://www.andrewsfcu.org/credit_cards_and_loans/credit_cards/globetrek_rewards.html) has been updated to reflect the removal of the 1% FTF on Globe Trek Visa.

Thank you....didn't know that. Cometition from SDFCU?

I followed the recommendation made by Kebosabi and wrote to Andrews FCU to suggest the elimination of the 1% foreign transaction fee on Globe Trek Visa.

To my surprise, I was informed that the 1% foreign transaction fee has been eliminated since Aug. 21, 2012. The information on its website (http://www.andrewsfcu.org/credit_cards_and_loans/credit_cards/globetrek_rewards.html) has been updated to reflect the removal of the 1% FTF on Globe Trek Visa.

Splendid news. I will reflect the change on the spreadsheet.

A good example of how CUs react faster than big name banks when possible. ^


Thank you....didn't know that. Cometition from SDFCU?

Possibly also to stay ahead in the game with BofA's Travel Rewards card? Albeit Chip-and-Signature, that card is currently the biggest name bank that offers a $0 annual fee/0% forex fee card with EMV chip.

Wow - you are right!! NO FTF.

The online transaction list shows the transaction in original currency, the applied exchange rate and the resulting $ amount added to your bill. I looked and saw that the exchange rates were reasonable, but assumed the 1% fee was built in. Makes the aggravations in dealing with AFCU a bit easier to take.

Now, if only I could verify that the PIN feature on my card actually works when needed...

For those of you who have used Chip+PIN successfully - i.e., were required to enter your PIN to complete the transaction, here is a question. Did your card remain in the reader device until the transaction was completed, or at least until after you entered the PIN?

Reference my earlier post (#160) about not being able to use the PIN feature on my AFCU GlobeTrek card. I kinda think that I removed my card before entering the PIN since nothing on the kiosk instructions said not to do that. Old habits die hard. This might explain why I couldn't get mine to work at the kiosk.

For those of you who have used Chip+PIN successfully - i.e., were required to enter your PIN to complete the transaction, here is a question. Did your card remain in the reader device until the transaction was completed, or at least until after you entered the PIN?

Reference my earlier post (#160) about not being able to use the PIN feature on my AFCU GlobeTrek card. I kinda think that I removed my card before entering the PIN since nothing on the kiosk instructions said not to do that. Old habits die hard. This might explain why I couldn't get mine to work at the kiosk.

The card is supposed to remain in the reader while the pin is entered when an emv pin is used. At least, that's what I've seen while waiting on a queue say at Boots or watching them bring the terminal to the table at Wagamama.

Wow - you are right!! NO FTF.

The online transaction list shows the transaction in original currency, the applied exchange rate and the resulting $ amount added to your bill. I looked and saw that the exchange rates were reasonable, but assumed the 1% fee was built in. Makes the aggravations in dealing with AFCU a bit easier to take.

Now, if only I could verify that the PIN feature on my card actually works when needed...

Be aware as part of the settlement of the class action suit against mc/visa regarding foreign transaction fees, mc/visa banks are required, I do believe, to show the amount as converted and list transactin fees either grossly or individually on the billing statement. Amex has no such rule.

I suppose I could verify the PIN with AFCU and/or the card processor and ask them why the transactions didn't work, but I don't anticipate a very useful answer.

Having been there, yeah, don't expect a useful answer.

Well, you answered my question about next week's trip to Frankfurt... :)

The card is supposed to remain in the reader while the pin is entered when an emv pin is used. .

Correct. Insert the card and follow the instructions on the LCD panel. This is true even when using a Chip & Signature card, the terminal needs to query the chip for your account information. If you cannot read the language displayed on the LCD, don't remove the card until the receipt prints.

Correct. Insert the card and follow the instructions on the LCD panel. This is true even when using a Chip & Signature card, the terminal needs to query the chip for your account information. If you cannot read the language displayed on the LCD, don't remove the card until the receipt prints.

This is correct even for magnetic stripe-only cards - if automated terminal (or ATM) accepts chip cards - burned me several times in Quebec :)
While in US people got used to insert and remove card quickly for terminal to read magnetic stripe, in other countries, all is done inside and machine checks for chip first, then reads stripe itself - you don't touch your card until you are either told so or transaction is complete.

Just came back from a two-week trip from France.

Before the trip I realized I accidentally threw away the letter with the PIN:eek: Luckily I remembered the digits, but not their order. Was hoping that the card would work as chip-and-signature as some described. Indeed it didn't require PIN in most of the places including:

- Attended locations. Usually I would use my Chase Sapphire Preferred, but a few times I used the AFCU card to smooth things out and I always had to sign rather than enter a PIN.

- Parking garages.

- Toll booths.

- Paris metro.

Only two times I had to enter PIN, both in Lyon:

- A funicular station in old Lyon. Tried a couple of combinations of the digits, didn't work, I gave up and paid in cash.

- A pay phone. I had to make an urgent call and the phone only accepted cards, no option for cash. Was asked for a PIN. Tried some new combinations of the digits, and it worked in the third attempt! This was the moment when I was happy that I went through the trouble of getting this card. Otherwise I would have to figure out how to get one of these pay phone cards in the middle of an emergency.

This card was fairly easy to get. Zero complaint on the approval process... applied on a weekend and had approval Monday. I took my time about applying for the credit union membership though - knew I really wanted that credit card but also decided to switch my daily banking usage there, which I've done over the past few months before even applying for the GlobeTrek card. So they had some history on file for direct deposit, bill pay, spending habits. Beyond the application there was no request for anything but the password sent by mail. From the time I applied until having both card and PIN in hand was just under two weeks.

Using it in Mexico its all going though as chip-and-signature. It worked with the PIN in a bank ATM for cash. 0% FTF too :)

Just came back from a two-week trip from France.

Before the trip I realized I accidentally threw away the letter with the PIN:eek: Luckily I remembered the digits, but not their order. Was hoping that the card would work as chip-and-signature as some described. Indeed it didn't require PIN in most of the places including:

- Attended locations. Usually I would use my Chase Sapphire Preferred, but a few times I used the AFCU card to smooth things out and I always had to sign rather than enter a PIN.

- Parking garages.

- Toll booths.

- Paris metro.

Only two times I had to enter PIN, both in Lyon:

- A funicular station in old Lyon. Tried a couple of combinations of the digits, didn't work, I gave up and paid in cash.

- A pay phone. I had to make an urgent call and the phone only accepted cards, no option for cash. Was asked for a PIN. Tried some new combinations of the digits, and it worked in the third attempt! This was the moment when I was happy that I went through the trouble of getting this card. Otherwise I would have to figure out how to get one of these pay phone cards in the middle of an emergency.





Just returned from 2 weeks in France with a short trip to Germany. The card worked great at all times. As other users have reported, if it was an attended purchase with the merchant there then a receipt for me to sign came out, if it was an unattended purchase (SNCF train tickets for the RER or metro in France, bus tickets into Paris from a machine at Paris Beauvais airport, and Bahn (train) tickets in Hamburg) then I entered my PIN. Yes, you leave the card in the machine for the entire transaction until it tells you to remove it. The SNCF (train ticket) machines in France have an option to have the screen read in English, which was helpful.
It was a major hassle to obtain this card sending in all kinds of paperwork and several followup calls everyday. I paid a $25. fee to expedite the card because I thought I could use it for most purchases and the hotel bills, but they mistakenly expedited the PIN instead (no card). After many calls they refunded me the additional $25 they mistakenly charged for expediting the PIN and expedited the card. (It comes from Canada). I received the card 3 hours before leaving for the airport from Fed Ex. It was helpful to have the card and I'm glad I jumped through all the hoops, although it was a pain in the rear because of lack of followup from Andrews. When you call them they always put you through to a customer service representative who then has to go speak or email a different "loan officer". Eventually, one of the loan officers sent me an email and once I had her contact information it made it a lot easier to call and email her directly. If you keep on them, you'll eventually be rewarded. It took just under 3 weeks start to finish for the "expedited" card. If you know you are going on a trip, allow plenty of time to get this card.

... It comes from Canada ...

Did Andrews share that with you during the process or is that where the fedex package originated? I suspected it originated in Canada for a couple of reasons but that would confirm it.

By mail it arrived in an envelope with an Omaha, NE return address but postage was paid in Buffalo, NY. On the back of most every credit card in small print in a corner is some mark indicating who manufactured it. cpi-ca is part of that small print... a google search for CPI EMV cards indicated it was very likely manufactured near Toronto by CPI Card Group.

Just returned from 2 weeks in France with a short trip to Germany. The card worked great at all times. As other users have reported, if it was an attended purchase with the merchant there then a receipt for me to sign came out, if it was an unattended purchase (SNCF train tickets for the RER or metro in France, bus tickets into Paris from a machine at Paris Beauvais airport, and Bahn (train) tickets in Hamburg) then I entered my PIN. Yes, you leave the card in the machine for the entire transaction until it tells you to remove it. The SNCF (train ticket) machines in France have an option to have the screen read in English, which was helpful.

This is very interesting to me. I've tried the card in Paris multiple times and it simply would not work where the amount was high enough to require the PIN. (And, no, not user error by pulling the card out too early.) Mind if I ask: What was the largest EUR purchase where you used the PIN feature?

I ask because if the charge amount is below a certain point the PIN isn't necessary and the CHIP alone is sufficient (at least in French machines).

Did Andrews share that with you during the process or is that where the fedex package originated? I suspected it originated in Canada for a couple of reasons but that would confirm it.

By mail it arrived in an envelope with an Omaha, NE return address but postage was paid in Buffalo, NY. On the back of most every credit card in small print in a corner is some mark indicating who manufactured it. cpi-ca is part of that small print... a google search for CPI EMV cards indicated it was very likely manufactured near Toronto by CPI Card Group.

The loan officer from Andrews told me that the cards are made in and come from Canada. The Fed Ex package also showed that it came from Canada (Ontario). She said that the PIN is mailed from a different location. In fact it was from Omaha, as you say.

This is very interesting to me. I've tried the card in Paris multiple times and it simply would not work where the amount was high enough to require the PIN. (And, no, not user error by pulling the card out too early.) Mind if I ask: What was the largest EUR purchase where you used the PIN feature?

I ask because if the charge amount is below a certain point the PIN isn't necessary and the CHIP alone is sufficient (at least in French machines).

We did not make any large purchases where the PIN was required. It was mostly for tickets. Our largest Euro purchase where a PIN was required was at the Paris Beauvais airport (This is the airport that Ryan Air uses). There was an unattended ticket machine inside the building (luggage claim area near the restrooms and before you exit into the lobby) to buy a bus ticket from the airport to the city (Porte Maillot). The cost was 15 Euros each and we bought 2 (one purchase) using the Andrews credit card. We did have to enter the PIN and it worked fine and dispensed our 2 tickets.

Dumb question.

I'm reticent to go off to Europe without first confirming the card will actually complete a chip and pin transaction. Does anyone know of places in the US that use chip and pin that I might run a test?

Dumb question.

I'm reticent to go off to Europe without first confirming the card will actually complete a chip and pin transaction. Does anyone know of places in the US that use chip and pin that I might run a test?

Wal-Mart seems to be an early adopter as noted by zowwie few weeks ago (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/19554365-post940.html)

I wasn't even thinking about it tonight, just buying cat food... The self-service checkout machine at a recently-remodeled [Wal-Mart] store in Phoenix rejected the swipe. The display on the device said "ICC CARD DETECTED INSERT CARD" or something like that. I did (Andrews FCU Visa) and the transaction went through as EMV.

However it still is in a phase-in process so not all Wal-Mart stores maybe active yet. Other places that may have it working might be Home Depot, BestBuy, and Target as they along with Wal-Mart, were strong supporters in moving the US to the chip. Again your result may vary.

If you live close to the Canadian border, testing it out in Canada first might be an option.

I asked the same question awhile back. Since then, I have noticed that the card readers at two local Wal-Marts have an EMV slot at the bottom (underneath the keypad) in addition to the swipe slot at the right. I have also noticed similar readers at other large retailers (e.g., Meijer), but have not tried any of them yet.

In any case, I'm guessing that if you successfully presented your AFCU card for an EMV transaction, you would then be asked to sign. So, that would only verify the Chip part of Chip+Pin, which is the easy part.

From my experience in Germany (see further back in this thread), I got a distinctly different response from the automated kiosk the first couple times I tried C+P from when I did it a few days later. First time didn't seem to acknowledge the card at all. Later transaction requested PIN but then hung up: I'm guessing that I removed the card before the transaction completed, since nothing said not to do this. Similarly, when I first used it to buy rail tickets, the agent seemed to have some difficulty and asked whether the card was new. (It was, but it had been used twice previously.) She used both swipe and EMV readers, and finally got a printed slip for me to sign. Check that: no signature required for this. Take-away: break in the card before you travel, and don't give up if the first couple of C+P transactions don't work.

I've been using my Andrews FCU card in Europe the last few weeks. The only time it prompts for a PIN is at automated kiosks. The rest of the time, it switches to signature.

Chip transactions do take much longer than swipe transactions. You need to put the card in and leave it there until it tells you to take it out (or until a receipt comes out).

I followed the recommendation made by Kebosabi and wrote to Andrews FCU to suggest the elimination of the 1% foreign transaction fee on Globe Trek Visa.

To my surprise, I was informed that the 1% foreign transaction fee has been eliminated since Aug. 21, 2012. The information on its website (http://www.andrewsfcu.org/credit_cards_and_loans/credit_cards/globetrek_rewards.html) has been updated to reflect the removal of the 1% FTF on Globe Trek Visa.

Wow! This is totally great. Changing my plans about what cards to bring on my next trip thanks to this... why bring another Visa that doesn't have a chip if my Andrews card has no foreign transaction fee? Awesome!

Also... to the people who are having trouble with the PIN function... perhaps the machine you're using it in just doesn't accept foreign cards. That situation used to happen even with swipe cards. For example, some gas stations I've visited in Poland could not accept a USA credit card, no way, no how - and they were familiar with swipe.

I used my card at kiosks, vending machines, and ticket machines this summer in The Netherlands and in Norway and it behaved exactly like a European's card would... stick it in, leave it in, enter PIN, remove when instructed. It worked great. At cash registers, as others have said, it will print out a signature strip... but it does that automatically, often to the surprise of the cashier.

I'll be in France in March and will post an update on what happens there.

Going thru the process of getting one now. I called (super nice) and they said they are better at dealing with all the requests now (summer was crazy). Will report back.

They are requesting everything (taxes, pay stubs) for getting a credit card with a small limit of $2k. Pain in the neck process. Hope it's worth all this.

They are requesting everything (taxes, pay stubs) for getting a credit card with a small limit of $2k. Pain in the neck process. Hope it's worth all this.
In reality, based on what many have said here, it may not be worth it. I'm coming around from the view point that something is better tha nothing (at least having the emv chip) to the only places where you are assured it is going to work are the same places that still take magnetic strip cards.

But evidently your purpose for getting it with the small credit limit is the same as mine was originally, maybe there's that one odd merchant out there where it will work when the magnetic strip card doesn't. And while I can't say none exist, I wonder just how many do. Making sure I have a card with no foreign transaction fee and a decent rewards programme might be much more important these days.

Just an opinion.

I just needed to pick up some supplies at the Migros at ZRH. Lines for the staffed checkout lanes were long and I was short on time. I went for the self-service checkout. For payment, only EMV cards were accepted by the terminal -- no mag stripe reader at all. Andrews Globetrek Visa worked like a charm. Surprisingly, no PIN or signature were requested for 13 CHF, the transaction just went through. Saved me a good 5-10 minutes of waiting at a staffed lane. Thanks Andrews FCU.

They are requesting everything (taxes, pay stubs) for getting a credit card with a small limit of $2k. Pain in the neck process. Hope it's worth all this.

It must depend on your credit history or score, or perhaps your application method (web, phone, or in person). I applied in person at a branch, all they wanted to see was my driver's license and SSN, and asked how much of a credit line I wanted. I requested $10K, was instantly approved for that, received card at home within a week. No taxes, no pay stubs, no nothing. They did pull a credit report from Experian.

It must depend on your credit history or score, or perhaps your application method (web, phone, or in person). I applied in person at a branch, all they wanted to see was my driver's license and SSN, and asked how much of a credit line I wanted. I requested $10K, was instantly approved for that, received card at home within a week. No taxes, no pay stubs, no nothing. They did pull a credit report from Experian.

I started my AFCU member application online, then followed up with a visit to the AFCU mothership location to apply for the GlobeTrek card, requesting $5K. Sat for about 10 minutes in the lobby while the "underwriter" examined my application, then sent word back asking for last 2 pay stubs. I deliberately understated my variable part-time income and requested a low limit to see if I could minimize the hassles. Also specifically did not mention consulting income, figuring that might trigger a request for tax records.

On the bright side, after 90 days as a card-carrying AFCU member, I can now pay my bill using ACH transfer from my checking account - Woohoo! Here's how it works: (1) login to your AFCU account and initiate the payment from checking to your VISA payment account. (That's the companion account with the same number as your shares account that they open for you when you get your Globe Trek card.) (2) Couple days later, the transferred funds show up in your base shares (savings) account, where they sit for a bit. (3) At some point - not sure yet about the timing - the funds are moved from your base savings over to the VISA payment account, where they are used to pay your VISA bill, with no further action by you. (4) Of course, you'll want to login to your Globe trek account to make sure all this really happened, and in time to avoid a late payment penalty.

This has to be the goofiest financial institution I have ever encountered; kind of charming, but this is the 21st century after all! When I visited the office, I should have looked to see if they still use rotary dial phones.

Oh well, happy EMVing to all.

On the bright side, after 90 days as a card-carrying AFCU member, I can now pay my bill using ACH transfer from my checking account - Woohoo!

You can do direct online bill pay to Andrews FCU VISA from most banks that have an online bill pay feature. I do mine with my BofA account just like any other utility bill, credit card bill, car insurance, etc.

My advice is to go after a secured card. The process was so messy I finally got a secured global trek visa card from andrews vs a credit card. Easier to put money into an account and draw from that. I wish i knew this up front so i wouldnt have the back and fourth calls, tax/pay documents, etc. ....craziness was too much for a card with a credit limit barely over $1400.. Plus no credit checks. My amex centurion FR was less invasive. I have a centurion but couldn't get a low limit visa from Andrews. Hahaha. Hope its worth the work I put into this.

My advice is to go after a secured card. The process was so messy I finally got a secured global trek visa card from andrews vs a credit card. Easier to put money into an account and draw from that. I wish i knew this up front so i wouldnt have the back and fourth calls, tax/pay documents, etc. ....craziness was too much for a card with a credit limit barely over $1400.. Plus no credit checks. My amex centurion FR was less invasive. I have a centurion but couldn't get a low limit visa from Andrews. Hahaha. Hope its worth the work I put into this.
I already joined Andrews, so now I can call them up and tell them I want to set up a secured global trek visa card? Transfer them the money and they issue the card?

I started my AFCU member application online, then followed up with a visit to the AFCU mothership location to apply for the GlobeTrek card, requesting $5K. Sat for about 10 minutes in the lobby while the "underwriter" examined my application, then sent word back asking for last 2 pay stubs. I deliberately understated my variable part-time income and requested a low limit to see if I could minimize the hassles. Also specifically did not mention consulting income, figuring that might trigger a request for tax records.

On the bright side, after 90 days as a card-carrying AFCU member, I can now pay my bill using ACH transfer from my checking account - Woohoo! Here's how it works: (1) login to your AFCU account and initiate the payment from checking to your VISA payment account. (That's the companion account with the same number as your shares account that they open for you when you get your Globe Trek card.) (2) Couple days later, the transferred funds show up in your base shares (savings) account, where they sit for a bit. (3) At some point - not sure yet about the timing - the funds are moved from your base savings over to the VISA payment account, where they are used to pay your VISA bill, with no further action by you. (4) Of course, you'll want to login to your Globe trek account to make sure all this really happened, and in time to avoid a late payment penalty.

This has to be the goofiest financial institution I have ever encountered; kind of charming, but this is the 21st century after all! When I visited the office, I should have looked to see if they still use rotary dial phones.

Oh well, happy EMVing to all.

While I am not for one second meaning to be critical or question the way you prefer to do things which is absotively your perogative, I assume you are aware of the bill paying services of most banks today and many brokerage houses. All my bills are paid through my Fidelity Investment account. A few clicks and done. Andrews FCU is no different than any other payee; they are on my list of payees and have never had any trouble making payments and having them properly applied to the account. I can also see the Andrews account in my full view on the same brokerage account which liss all the credit card accounts for which I have on line access. Excellent for record keeping too.

Interestingly enough, while all this was going on and not realizing they have the same processing format (i.e. chip and signature default and then if chip and signature isn't accepted by the pos terminal, then chip and pin kicks in with all the inherent problems described in the other threads regarding this), I opened the SDFCU credit card account, went through the hassle of the process including a request to authorize them to get the last two years worth of tax returnhs (Mitt Romney and me) and got the card but Fidelity Full View seems to be unable to display the account despite the fact I have online ability to look at the account and I have made a payment through their bill paying system and no problem, it went through properly.

As I said elsewhere, if I knew then what I know now, pro bably none of this is necessary as I don't often deal with unpeopled kiosks in Europe and as has been described the usefulness of the format seems to be hit or miss.

I already joined Andrews, so now I can call them up and tell them I want to set up a secured global trek visa card? Transfer them the money and they issue the card?

I would call them M-F from 8-5 and ask. I think they knew I was getting frustrated in dealing with the underwriter and they offered it to me as an easier option. I was like "wish I knew that before going into this crazy ordeal over 2 weeks". All for a card with a chip and pin. Kinda funny :D

While I am not for one second meaning to be critical or question the way you prefer to do things which is absotively your perogative, I assume you are aware of the bill paying services of most banks today and many brokerage houses. All my bills are paid through my Fidelity Investment account. A few clicks and done.

Understood. Yes, I'm aware of bill pay services although I started with ACH transfers and have had no issues with that approach over several years of regular use, so never took the time to change, even though my bank no longer charges for the service. (And yes, I have read some folks concerns about potential account fraud when using the ACH mechanism.)

One of the steps I tried when paying my first AFCU bill was to enable bill pay at my bank in suburban Chicago, but they couldn't recognize AFCU. Meantime, I hoofed it over to a local affiliated CU and deposited funds there to pay the bill. Later, as a fallback payment method, I activated bill pay at Vanguard and they were OK with AFCU (just like kebosabi says with BofA, and your Fidelity experience), but I prefer to pay bills from my bank checking account.

As I said elsewhere, if I knew then what I know now, pro bably none of this is necessary as I don't often deal with unpeopled kiosks in Europe and as has been described the usefulness of the format seems to be hit or miss.

My whole reason for going through this was to be confident that I could handle unattended kiosk transactions when traveling, even though I don't do more than 1-2 trips per year. Time will tell whether it was a wasted effort, but hey: we learned interesting stuff about EMV and credit unions and the future of card transactions, right?

Happy travels!

I applied for membership and then once accepted the credit card yesterday after 6. By 8:40 this morning I had an email asking me to call, then a very cordial 3 minute conversation asking me to email or fax over one pay stub. By the afternoon I was accepted and signed the final docs online. It might be that I was only asking for 5K bc the plan for this card is just kiosks, etc. so I kept it simple, but it seems like the process has gotten a lot faster based on the older reports I read.

but it seems like the process has gotten a lot faster based on the older reports I read.

Wait until you have your card and PIN in hand, and break them in on a couple transactions. Then tell us your experience.

I decided to add an additional authorized user to my Globetrek Visa. I called Andrews and they told me all I needed to do was send them a written signed statement that I wished to do this with the person's name and address and my account number and last 4 digits of my credit card along with a copy of 2 forms of identification. I was able to scan all this and send to them as an email attachment. The card with the new user's name and PIN (same card number and PIN as me) arrived in 8 days from the time I emailed them, which I thought was ligntning fast. If you do this, though, be aware that they will temporarily inactivate your existing card until the new one arrives in the mail and is reactivated. They do this in case someone intercepts the card and tries to use it. Unfortunately, Andrews customer service didn't mention this to me when I called and made my request, so I was rather surprised when my Andrews Globetrek card was declined when I tried to make a large airline ticket purchase (it was in a foreign currency, and I didn't want to pay a foreign currency transaction fee). Fortunately my Capital One was available to use to avoid the extra fee.

I'm glad so many of you folks are such fans of this card, but I have to be honest, it sounds like sort of a disaster to me. I've read through the whole thread and I would NOT put up with the sort of experiences people are reporting with AFCU and the card in general.

Not trying to take the wind out of anyone's sails or anything, just my $0.02.

I'm interested in this card for a few reasons:

The Chip & Pin technology
No foreign transaction fees
No Cash advance fees

It seems ideal for a long trip to Europe. I have a couple questions:

Has anyone taken advantage of the No Cash advance fees? That seems to be a huge bonus when travelling and needing access to Cash. Am I missing something there? Are Cash advances subject to automatic percentage fees or only if unpaid by statement due date like other purchases?

Are the rewards on this card comparable to other non- chip and pin cards? Would it be better to make large purchases on a better incentive rewards card and only use this for Chip and Pin needs? Or are the rewards offered on this card similar enough to make it worth using for everything?

Thanks any info helpful, would prefer to hear from the folks who have used the card rather than Customer Service reps.

Are Cash advances subject to automatic percentage fees or only if unpaid by statement due date like other purchases?

Interest begins accruing on the day you take the cash advance. I think it is like 14% APR on this card but you need to check the terms and conditions for latest rates.

Interest begins accruing on the day you take the cash advance. I think it is like 14% APR on this card but you need to check the terms and conditions for latest rates.

Conventional wisdom is that it is not a good idea to use a credit card for a cash advance via an ATM and they use the high annual percentage as evidence. True the interest clock starts running at the moment you get the cash and 14% seems bad but....it is prorated daily and if something happens say your ATM debit card doesn't work and you desperately need cash and you take out $100, since there are no other fees, at the end of the month it costs about $1.10 and you don't even have t wait the month. Via online banking, you can repay it almost immeditely out of another account.

What makes cash advances via credit cards so unappetizing are the usual high fees most banks attach to a cash advance on top of the interest. If there's none, it's fine for an emergency.

Has anyone taken advantage of the No Cash advance fees? That seems to be a huge bonus when travelling and needing access to Cash. Am I missing something there? Are Cash advances subject to automatic percentage fees or only if unpaid by statement due date like other purchases?

Interest accrues *immediately* on cash advances.

Conventional wisdom is that it is not a good idea to use a credit card for a cash advance via an ATM and they use the high annual percentage as evidence
...
What makes cash advances via credit cards so unappetizing are the usual high fees most banks attach to a cash advance on top of the interest. If there's none, it's fine for an emergency.

I've done it. Over the summer, an ATM on Bali ate my ATM card. I'm still not sure what I did; I got my cash and it just never gave my card back. Despite being "that guy" who always has two ATM cards while travelling, I had left my backup card at home. I was three days into a three-week vacation. Damn.

AmEx has "express cash" which is allegedly really awesome because it pulls from your checking account. They also get 3% for the convenience, and ATMs in Indonesia don't take AmEx anyway. Some in Australia might, but I had a week of surviving on Bali left first. Nevermind.

AFCU's lack of a cash advance fee (and the fact that I actually know the PIN to that card!) saved me a fair bit of cash and a lot of hassle. They had given me a low introductory APR (1.9%, I think), though I didn't realize it until the bill came. Using the AFCU credit card for all my cash for the next week in Indonesia and two weeks in Australia ended up costing me less than $2. (At the time, AFCU still had a 1% forex fee, but so did my ATM card, so that doesn't count.)

I don't even need the AFCU card anymore--I have a USAA true chip-and-pin card with a 1% forex fee, and various big bank cards have chip-and-sign with 0%. But the fact that it saved my bacon means I'll probably keep the card forever just for sentimental reasons.

So, despite the hassle of getting it, the AFCU card still can be worth it--the fact that it has no fees whatsoever make it an ideal backup card because it can save you from a lost ATM card as well as working where the big banks' chip-and-sign cards don't. The fact that its rewards program sucks means that most FTers were probably using it as a backup card anyway :)

I'm glad so many of you folks are such fans of this card, but I have to be honest, it sounds like sort of a disaster to me. I've read through the whole thread and I would NOT put up with the sort of experiences people are reporting with AFCU and the card in general.

Not trying to take the wind out of anyone's sails or anything, just my $0.02.

To be fair, at the time of August 2011, Andrews FCU was the very first CU and pretty much the only US based financial institution that offered an EMV card that any American could get without being a member of restrictive CU membership qualifications (i.e. working for the UN) or a multi-millionaire (Chase Palladium).

That being said, the initial application wave must have overwhelmed Andrews FCU's resources which they weren't really prepared for.

Before August 2011, who actually on FT has even heard of Andrews FCU? Practically no one. Its primary membership consisted of civilians and military service members that worked at Andrews AFB, not globetrotting business folk on FT. :p

OTOH, the case of the huge demand for Chip-and-PIN at Andrews FCU did lead the ball rolling for other CUs, especially those that contract with PSCU, to start offering EMV cards in some form for their CU members. And, IIRC Andrews FCU was one of the keynote speakers in the last US migration to EMV conference so I'm sure they had some tips and pointers to give to other US financial institutions from what experience they learned from being the first one.

Putting that perspective into mind, based on more recent application experiences, they seem to have streamlined the process a lot more. I'd think it would be too harsh to call it a "disaster" when no one else before them had done it before. How does expect something when there's no data case to show that there would be so much demand?

If anything, the initial application flood must've surprised not only Andrews FCU, but other US financial institutions as well. If you look at the industry perspective pre-Andrews FCU and post-Andrews FCU, the difference is like night and day. Before then, many banks were skeptical that there was any demand to warrant this. Now we have other CUs and major banks like Citi, Chase, Wells Fargo, US Bank and BofA issuing some form of EMV. VISA, MC, and Discover have announced an EMV liability shift. And one of the most conservative issuers, AMEX has also come onboard.

I don't even need the AFCU card anymore--I have a USAA true chip-and-pin card with a 1% forex fee, and various big bank cards have chip-and-sign with 0%. But the fact that it saved my bacon means I'll probably keep the card forever just for sentimental reasons.

Thanks much for pointing this out. They don't advertise it prominently on their site, but USAA will now issue a chip+pin (Master Card only, so far) to any current account holder who has a reason: military deployment, or planned international travel. I verified this today by phone, stating that I intended to travel to Europe in the summer. I am a USAA member, but have no accounts with them. Applied online in response to a "pre-approved" offer, and was approved for $15K immediately. They give you your card number, expiration and security code right away, but throttle the credit limit down to $1K until you receive and activate the card, which they say takes 8-10 days by regular mail. ($8 expedites delivery.) Quite a contrast to the multi-step, less than transparent approach of AFCU's application process.

Two wrinkles: (1) You must be eligible for USAA membership - active or prior military service (not just retirees). (2) First, they give you a regular card w/o chip+pin, then you request the chip+pin version based on your reason, as above. I'll keep my AFCU card for now also, and give them both a workout in Europe.

You must be eligible for USAA membership - active or prior military service (not just retirees).

I was under the impression that USAA banking products did not have eligibility requirements. Was I misinformed?

I was under the impression that USAA banking products did not have eligibility requirements. Was I misinformed?

Don't know about that: you may be right. I assumed it was only for members. Of course, I also assumed that USAA was only for officers, as it was when I was in service.

One thing I wonder about is their aggressive campaign for membership sign-ups via TV advertising. Anyone know the specific rationale behind their marketing?

One thing I wonder about is their aggressive campaign for membership sign-ups via TV advertising. Anyone know the specific rationale behind their marketing?

A lot of military servicemen and women are returning back from Iraq and Afghanistan.

I was under the impression that USAA banking products did not have eligibility requirements. Was I misinformed?

Per the USAA website, it reads:

Which products and services can I get?

Membership is open to those who have honorably served in the U.S. military as well as eligible family members. We also offer certain products to non military individuals. Here's a general outline of the products and services available to you.

[Active military]
[Military veterans]
[Spouses of USAA members]
[Widows, widowers and former spouses of USAA members]
[Individuals whose parents are or were USAA members]
[Former USAA members]

and...

[Other individuals]

Our investment products, most checking and savings products, credit cards, life insurance, and shopping and discounts are available to other individuals. USAA auto and property insurance is not available due to membership eligibility requirements.


One caveat for non-military members of USAA is that some of their banking benefits could be limited like mobile and home deposits which have a requirement that the USAA member has to be eligible for auto and property insurance. If you don't do mobile or home deposits then it's no problem.

I joined USAA years ago for their chequing account which for years was one of the few that waived the arrogant fees charged by banks for having the audacity to use their aTM machines to withdraw your money from an account at another bank. At one time, they were just nuisance fees like 50¢ or 75¢ but now they are asininely high like $3 or so. Absurd. And then their credit card was a good deal for it only charged a 1% foreign transaction fee although I didn't care a whole lot about their rewards programme. I did use the card on foreign trips but had better rewards for my domestic charges so the card lay dormant and I was shocked to see it was still valid for another year when this whole chip and pin business began.

So I used the card a couple of times for small purchases just to re-activate it. But then in discussing with a csr converting it to chip and pin, she said fine went through the whole thing and finally said to me my card was not eligible for chip and pin. She said only certain cards were eligible for chip and pin and that I couldn't apply for one as I was not a member. But I am a member even though I didn't spend time in the armed forces.

As this thread has developed, it has become clear why my card was not eligible for chip and pin. It is a visa card and we have deduced on here that only mc's are eligible. So I went online to their web site, yes it is still active and applied on=line for a mastercard. Lo and behold I was instantly approved for $9k credit line (not that I would ever come close to that) and they will be sending me the card in 8 tro 10 days. From what I've read here, I will then have to call cs back and ask that it be converted to chip and pin.

Amazing.

A lot of military servicemen and women are returning back from Iraq and Afghanistan.

True, but there are even more active duty people here at home. And, during Desert Storm (Iraq, part 1), the military was larger. USAA's advertising campaign is more recent - I have noticed an uptick in their TV spots in maybe the last couple years.

I believe there has been some internal controversy about the expansion policies of at least one former USAA head, but I'm wondering if there are larger issues at play here that might also explain credit unions relaxing membership criteria. I'm looking for something more specific than just a marketing opportunity to jump in while mainstream banks are still recovering from the mortgage crisis and aftermath. For example - did a rules change open up the competitive field? If anyone is up to speed on this industry, it would be interesting to see a report.

She said only certain cards were eligible for chip and pin and that I couldn't apply for one as I was not a member. But I am a member even though I didn't spend time in the armed forces.

As this thread has developed, it has become clear why my card was not eligible for chip and pin. It is a visa card and we have deduced on here that only mc's are eligible. So I went online to their web site, yes it is still active and applied on=line for a mastercard. Lo and behold I was instantly approved for $9k credit line (not that I would ever come close to that) and they will be sending me the card in 8 tro 10 days. From what I've read here, I will then have to call cs back and ask that it be converted to chip and pin.

This agrees in every respect with what I was told yesterday by a CSR. After the AFCU round-about, this seems absolutely straight-forward to me! :)

True, but there are even more active duty people here at home. And, during Desert Storm (Iraq, part 1), the military was larger. USAA's advertising campaign is more recent - I have noticed an uptick in their TV spots in maybe the last couple years.

I believe there has been some internal controversy about the expansion policies of at least one former USAA head, but I'm wondering if there are larger issues at play here that might also explain credit unions relaxing membership criteria. I'm looking for something more specific than just a marketing opportunity to jump in while mainstream banks are still recovering from the mortgage crisis and aftermath. For example - did a rules change open up the competitive field? If anyone is up to speed on this industry, it would be interesting to see a report.

But none of this is recent, at least with USAA. I must have held my USAA chequing account and my USAA visa for at least 15 years if not more and when I opened the accounts, there was no problem even though I have never spent a day in our Armed Forces!

I decided to take the plunge and get an Andrews FCU card, so I completed all the steps yesterday. Joining the credit union itself was quick and painless - I joined the ACC first and then the CU. I printed and sent off the signature card and then went right into the online app for the chip-and-pin card. I called to check the status a couple hours later and they said there was nothing I needed to provide at that time. An hour or two later, I got an e-mail asking me to call them to confirm a couple of things, so I did that and then got confirmation of my approval about an hour after that. The documents I had to e-sign came right after that, so I signed them then and now I'm just waiting to get the card. It sounds like the Andrews team has definitely gotten more organized (based on the experiences I've read in this thread), which is great. Since I'm a leisure traveler, I won't be back in Europe until later this year, but I'm looking forward to giving the card a try then!

I decided to take the plunge and get an Andrews FCU card, so I completed all the steps yesterday. Joining the credit union itself was quick and painless - I joined the ACC first and then the CU. I printed and sent off the signature card and then went right into the online app for the chip-and-pin card. I called to check the status a couple hours later and they said there was nothing I needed to provide at that time. An hour or two later, I got an e-mail asking me to call them to confirm a couple of things, so I did that and then got confirmation of my approval about an hour after that. The documents I had to e-sign came right after that, so I signed them then and now I'm just waiting to get the card. It sounds like the Andrews team has definitely gotten more organized (based on the experiences I've read in this thread), which is great. Since I'm a leisure traveler, I won't be back in Europe until later this year, but I'm looking forward to giving the card a try then!

Thanks for the update on the current situation on the Andrews FCU application process.

It does seem that things have improved drastically. I assume that Andrews FCU wasn't aware how much demand there was for such a card that they were initially caught off guard with the first wave of applications, let alone in the start, they were the the only one that offered them as well.

Thanks for the update on the current situation on the Andrews FCU application process.

It does seem that things have improved drastically. I assume that Andrews FCU wasn't aware how much demand there was for such a card that they were initially caught off guard with the first wave of applications, let alone in the start, they were the the only one that offered them as well.

My pleasure! And yes, based on some of the posts in this thread, it seems Andrews has indeed improved their process. I was surprised when I read some of the things people had to do during the application process - I just had to provide one pay stub to verify my salary. I did call Andrews one last time today to ask when I should expect the card and they said it would be on its way to me tomorrow. Overall, the experience has gone very smoothly for me!

My pleasure! And yes, based on some of the posts in this thread, it seems Andrews has indeed improved their process. I was surprised when I read some of the things people had to do during the application process - I just had to provide one pay stub to verify my salary. I did call Andrews one last time today to ask when I should expect the card and they said it would be on its way to me tomorrow. Overall, the experience has gone very smoothly for me!

Andrews FCU's quirkiness and difficult to deal with system doesn't start/stop with just the approval process. They seem to be a rather odd, neurotic military credit union and like to maintain their own little financial island cut off from the rest of the world. Sort of like the CU version of North Korea. :p

If I'd known how archaic their system was and how paranoid and quirky their rules and procedures are, for even the most mundane tasks, I never would have joined and got their chip and pin Visa. I cancelled mine recently. There are enough other options now, like PenFed and USAA, that Andrews isn't worth the hassle. Good luck!

My pleasure! And yes, based on some of the posts in this thread, it seems Andrews has indeed improved their process. I was surprised when I read some of the things people had to do during the application process - I just had to provide one pay stub to verify my salary. I did call Andrews one last time today to ask when I should expect the card and they said it would be on its way to me tomorrow. Overall, the experience has gone very smoothly for me!

I hope you're right about the improvements, but I'll wait to see what others say. Somewhere way back in this thread is the report of at least one person who went to an AFCU office and applied in person, and got everything sorted in one visit, similar to your experience. I tried that but still had to supply a couple pay stubs after the visit to keep the underwriter happy. And that was after I was told during my visit that underwriting had approved my application. (No doubt the documentation requirements depend on applicant's credit history, credit limit, etc.)

Their process may be quite clear and rational to them, but it sure looks strange from the outside when applicants are asked to jump through different hoops: one pay stub, two stubs, tax returns, whatever. It looks like their credit card approval got dumped on the mortgage loan department, with little effort to make the credit card process look like its competition (i.e., other credit cards).

And, as noted in the post after yours, the fun doesn't stop once you have card and pin in hand.

I hope you're right about the improvements, but I'll wait to see what others say. Somewhere way back in this thread is the report of at least one person who went to an AFCU office and applied in person, and got everything sorted in one visit, similar to your experience. I tried that but still had to supply a couple pay stubs after the visit to keep the underwriter happy. And that was after I was told during my visit that underwriting had approved my application. (No doubt the documentation requirements depend on applicant's credit history, credit limit, etc.)

Their process may be quite clear and rational to them, but it sure looks strange from the outside when applicants are asked to jump through different hoops: one pay stub, two stubs, tax returns, whatever. It looks like their credit card approval got dumped on the mortgage loan department, with little effort to make the credit card process look like its competition (i.e., other credit cards).

I agree that the whole process has been bizarre for some people. When I read that they asked for tax returns from some folks, I was very confused! Needless to say, I thought a lot about it before deciding that I even wanted to apply for this card, but as I said, I can't really complain about the experience I had, especially knowing that Andrews is a small CU.

And, as noted in the post after yours, the fun doesn't stop once you have card and pin in hand.

Yes, I did see that post, so I'll just have to wait and see what happens. :) I do plan on keeping a little money in my Andrews account (always good to have emergency funds!) and I plan on just paying my chip-and-pin Visa bill by check (archaic, I know) for the first 90 days until I can start using another account for online payments. I intend to use this card primarily while traveling, so it won't normally get a ton of use in my case anyway.

I intend to use this card primarily while traveling, so it won't normally get a ton of use in my case anyway.

Exactly what i have been doing, although I use mine occasionally around home just to keep it "warmed up" and to stay familiar with procedures. Two things to note:

First...
If you decide to pay your credit card bill from your AFCU shares (savings) account, you'll actually have three accounts to juggle: the credit card account, the savings account and a "shadow" VISA payment account linked to your savings account. So in my case the money flow to pay the VISA bill goes:

- external checking account to AFCU shares via EFT (only allowed after the 90-day get to know you period)
- AFCU shares account to VISA payment shadow account
- VISA payment shadow account balance automatically swept up to pay VISA bill

Even though the AFCU website will let you set up EFT from an external account directly to the VISA shadow account, don't believe it. The money goes to your savings account and stops there. You have to take the additional step of directing the transfer from savings to VISA payment account to actually pay the bill. (Learned this the hard way...)

If you use electronic bill pay from your bank/financial institution, I think you can pay the VISA directly in one step - others here can verify this.

Second:
Notify them before you travel to be sure they don't put a fraud hold on your card. Who is "they"? Well, last year I called the number on my card which goes to the card processing outfit (PSCU, I think). After a mildly exasperating 10 minute call including wait time, I was told that I was good to go, and all I had to do was call AFCU and give them the same trip info. Why?? Just because, I guess. Another 10 minute call. :mad:

Maybe the procedure will have changed by this year - we'll see. This summer, I'll have 2 Chip+Pin cards: AFCU and USAA Master Card.

I can't really complain about the experience I had, especially knowing that Andrews is a small CU.

They have nearly a billion dollars in assets which, for a credit union, is actually rather large.

If you use electronic bill pay from your bank/financial institution, I think you can pay the VISA directly in one step - others here can verify this.

Correct. I pay Andrews FCU VISA using my BofA online bill pay feature. Never had any problems with it; process online payment on BofA, shows up on Andrews FCU VISA as paid by next morning.

- external checking account to AFCU shares via EFT (only allowed after the 90-day get to know you period)
- AFCU shares account to VISA payment shadow account
- VISA payment shadow account balance automatically swept up to pay VISA bill

Even though the AFCU website will let you set up EFT from an external account directly to the VISA shadow account, don't believe it. The money goes to your savings account and stops there. You have to take the additional step of directing the transfer from savings to VISA payment account to actually pay the bill. (Learned this the hard way...)

Thanks for this flow - super helpful! The shadow Visa account has already showed up with my Shares account. I knew it was involved in the Visa payment, but I wasn't sure how it worked. Now I do. :)

If you use electronic bill pay from your bank/financial institution, I think you can pay the VISA directly in one step - others here can verify this.

Sounds like this does work successfully for others, so I'll have to look into that option as well. Again, I don't plan on using the card that much, so it shouldn't be much of an issue.

Notify them before you travel to be sure they don't put a fraud hold on your card. Who is "they"? Well, last year I called the number on my card which goes to the card processing outfit (PSCU, I think). After a mildly exasperating 10 minute call including wait time, I was told that I was good to go, and all I had to do was call AFCU and give them the same trip info. Why?? Just because, I guess. Another 10 minute call. :mad:

Good reminder! I always do this with cards I'm going to use outside of the country (even the ones who tell me I don't need to inform them :cool:), but I'll be extra sure to do it with my Andrews card!

They have nearly a billion dollars in assets which, for a credit union, is actually rather large.

Wow, that's more than I would have thought. Definitely a lot of assets for what seems to be a smaller CU!

Wow, that's more than I would have thought. Definitely a lot of assets for what seems to be a smaller CU!

AFCU says it has about 100,000 members and $900 Million in assets as of year-end 2012. For perspective, I belong to Alliant FCU (originally formed to serve UA employees but now open to anyone similar to AFCU) which, at 270,000 members and $8.3 Billion in assets, is supposed to be the 6th largest in the country. So AFCU is no small potato.

What may be unique about AFCU is that it has offices in Europe to serve military and DoD civilian employees. This link might be what prompted them to be one of the first CUs to offer chip and pin cards to satisfy members and US civilian staff posted there. Just guessing, but somebody had the foresight to address the need - kudos to AFCU! Now if only they would scrub their procedures and modernize their website , and ...:rolleyes:

Now if only they would scrub their procedures and modernize their website , and ...:rolleyes:

IMO, while their website does look outdated, when I compare to what it can do compared to BofA, AFCU actually does more.

1. Depositing checks via a scanner.
I love this feature. If it's something that BofA should do is this. I presume AFCU has this feature in consideration of service members abroad where they get a paycheck, but have no means to deposit them while abroad. But this feature is a help for international travelers as well. If you have access to a scanner anywhere in the world, you're able to deposit checks directly into your US bank account. Cool.

2. Free checking with a wad of checkbooks
Granted checks are outdated these days, but when I opened a checking account with AFCU, they priority mailed me 150 checks. BofA only gives you 10 or so IIRC and makes you pay to reorder checks.

3. Free ACH transfers
BofA charges $3 per ACH transfer that takes three days (further rip off of $10 if next business day, $25 if same day :td: ) to an outside bank.

AFCU OTOH, has totally free ACH transfers to any outside financial institution.

As such, rather than incur the $3, I just write a BofA check to myself and deposit it to AFCU using the scanner deposit feature at the comfort of my own home.

Going the other way, since AFCU doesn't charge any ACH fees, I use it as my main funding source for things like PayPal and Serve and such.

...compared to BofA, AFCU actually does more.

All good things that you listed, but I have some or all of these features at accounts with my small local bank, Alliant FCU, and major brokerages. I had not heard that anyone charged for ACH transfers - I started using them several years ago because I was too cheap to pay the bank $6 per month for electronic bill pay service (now even that is free). If anything, your comments suggest to me the downside of being a BofA customer, or of any other large fee-happy financial institution.

FWIW, I prefer to do business with banks and others that are organized for the benefit of customers rather than investors - like credit unions and Vanguard. I also remember Andrews FCU being one of the few banking institutions we had access to when I was in the military in Germany years ago. So, go AFCU! But they still need to be accountable for following customer-unfriendly procedures.

I decided to take the plunge and get an Andrews FCU card, so I completed all the steps yesterday. Joining the credit union itself was quick and painless - I joined the ACC first and then the CU. I printed and sent off the signature card and then went right into the online app for the chip-and-pin card. I called to check the status a couple hours later and they said there was nothing I needed to provide at that time. An hour or two later, I got an e-mail asking me to call them to confirm a couple of things, so I did that and then got confirmation of my approval about an hour after that. The documents I had to e-sign came right after that, so I signed them then and now I'm just waiting to get the card. It sounds like the Andrews team has definitely gotten more organized (based on the experiences I've read in this thread), which is great. Since I'm a leisure traveler, I won't be back in Europe until later this year, but I'm looking forward to giving the card a try then!

I have now received my card and pin, so I'm good to go! The whole process, from initially joining the CU and applying for the card to actually receiving it, took eight days, which sounds like a vast improvement from what many other folks have experienced. I've successfully added the card to my bank's bill-pay system as well, so I'm covered there. I'll use it for some purchases in the US, but I'm excited to give it a good workout in Europe in a few months!

I have now received my card and pin, so I'm good to go! The whole process, from initially joining the CU and applying for the card to actually receiving it, took eight days, which sounds like a vast improvement from what many other folks have experienced. I've successfully added the card to my bank's bill-pay system as well, so I'm covered there. I'll use it for some purchases in the US, but I'm excited to give it a good workout in Europe in a few months!

And you will find, most likely, that in almost all cases it will function as a chip and signature and after the novelty wears off, it isn't all that different from a swipe!:p

And you will find, most likely, that in almost all cases it will function as a chip and signature and after the novelty wears off, it isn't all that different from a swipe!:p

Haha - yeah, I've gathered that from this thread. :) Given the variety of places I like to travel to, I figure it'll come and handy to have a chip-andpin card, even if it does often work as chip-and-signature. And it's got a good interest rate and no other weird fees, so it's not a bad general-use credit card for me! I know the rewards aren't great, but that's fine by me, too.

And you will find, most likely, that in almost all cases it will function as a chip and signature and after the novelty wears off, it isn't all that different from a swipe!:p

Haha - yeah, I've gathered that from this thread. :) Given the variety of places I like to travel to, I figure it'll come and handy to have a chip-andpin card, even if it does often work as chip-and-signature.

And if you look like an American and do a transaction in a main-stem tourist location, the CSR may just swipe your magnetic strip, and not even bother with the whole chip thing.

Or, as happened to me a couple of times last year, they may do both swipe and dip. We bought a clock and the shop owner dipped my card's chip, then swiped it when the transaction seemed to be taking too long, and I never did figure out which action completed the sale. There was a line of customers behind me, and he didn't look interested in having a sidebar on card technology anyway.

This year, I'll be paying very close attention to the details of how the transactions go down. Good luck with yours! :cool:

I never did figure out which action completed the sale

Usually the receipt tells you which method was used in a transaction. See my transaction report with pics: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18678873-post2.html

Usually the receipt tells you which method was used in a transaction. See my transaction report with pics: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18678873-post2.html

Very interesting reference - thanks kebosabi!

I examined my credit card receipts from that trip, 6 in all. Most were in German, which I can puzzle out. None included a really obvious word that could mean "chip" or mag-stripe, or anything similar. However, some receipts included several codes referenced in the EMV standards documents from emvco, e.g.: the EMV-AID identifier for VISA (the AFCU GlobeTrek VISA card in this case), TVR, TSI, ATC, etc. A couple had a long string of "EMV-Daten" - which may have included data read from my card or the terminal or both.

It would be interesting to know whether an EMV terminal device prints out any of this info when the transaction only involves the card's mag-stripe. Anyone know?

It would be interesting to know whether an EMV terminal device prints out any of this info when the transaction only involves the card's mag-stripe. Anyone know?

Judging by the seafood store transaction in Vancouver, it doesn't.

The POS terminal equipment the store owner had was the one which could do both EMV and mag-stripe. He just went ahead and swiped it. When the receipt printed out, the entry method said "Swiped" as shown.

Can't speak for others as I haven't seen much of other people's receipts from abroad when they used their EMV as mag-stripe or via the chip. :D

Judging by the seafood store transaction in Vancouver, it doesn't.

The POS terminal equipment the store owner had was the one which could do both EMV and mag-stripe. He just went ahead and swiped it. When the receipt printed out, the entry method said "Swiped" as shown.

Can't speak for others as I haven't seen much of other people's receipts from abroad when they used their EMV as mag-stripe or via the chip. :D

My question, though, it was my understanding that when a merchant swiped an emv card in a pos that reads emv chips the transaction is not supposed to be completed. Or at least that was my (mis)understanding.

My question, though, it was my understanding that when a merchant swiped an emv card in a pos that reads emv chips the transaction is not supposed to be completed. Or at least that was my (mis)understanding.

Can't say about that as my experience so far has been:

1. Merchant just swipes the mag-stripe

or

2. Merchant just inserts the card into the chip reader


Haven't had the experience of merchant try mag-stripe then switching to chip.

How were your experiences with an EMV card?

Can't say about that as my experience so far has been:

1. Merchant just swipes the mag-stripe

or

2. Merchant just inserts the card into the chip reader


Haven't had the experience of merchant try mag-stripe then switching to chip.

How were your experiences with an EMV card?

Most of my travel is to the UK especially London although I do spend a few days in Paris each year.

This past summer and this past February I almost exclusively used my Bank of America cash rewards card sans foreign transaction fee for the 1% rebate (although I got 2% from some of the grocery chains but none of the charges wer eparticularly big). Every single time, I inserted the card into the chip reader and it worked every single time and spit out a receipt. However previous to this...

I used magnetic strip cards and I remember bringing it up in some thread here. Every night, I went into the same convenience store on the way back to the hotel and used a magnetic strip card which clearly did not have an emv chip. Every single time, the clerks at this store, different clerks, always insisted on inserting the card into the chip reader and then and only then swiping it. On here, I was told I think by Mia but it could have been somebody else that they were required to insert the magnetic strip card into the chip reader to verify it was a non chip card that had not had its magnetic strip cloned from a chipped card and that it was a usual thing. (My complaint was the more times the non chip card was inserted into a chip pos, it damaged the signature strip and the word void started coming through and in the UK they actually check signatures!)

I don't think I ever used an unpersonned kiosk except I topped off my oyster card on a London tfl machines and it worked sans pin. At least that was my experience (I also just for fun used the Andrews card a couple of times and as noted it functioned just like any other chip and signature card in London never once promting me for the pin).

I don't think I ever used an unpersonned kiosk except I topped off my oyster card on a London tfl machines and it worked sans pin. At least that was my experience (I also just for fun used the Andrews card a couple of times and as noted it functioned just like any other chip and signature card in London never once promting me for the pin).

It seems there are at least two reasons for our confusion on EMV card usage:

1. Card verification is a multi-step process that may have several options that will work to authorize any given transaction. Check out the Wikipedia article on EMV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV Or, download the 4-volume emvco standards specification and go bit-by-bit.

2. Beyond the requirements of the card issuers and processors, each merchant may impose their own protocol for handling cards, which may explain why the CSR insisted on dipping your obviously non-chip card before swiping it. An abundance of caution. Sort of like having a 20-something insist on seeing everyone's ID before selling them beer at a baseball game, process takes thinking out of the equation.

Oh yeah, there is one more reason that certainly applies in my case - lack of experience with EMV transactions. Last year's trip with my AFCU GlobeTrek VISA was my first, and the primary concern was that every transaction would be completed. All of mine were completed, if you don't count the ones where I pulled the card out of the kiosk before completing ticket purchases. :o

This year, with two chip+pin cards and a better-informed idea of what to expect, I'll pay close attention to how the transactions proceed.

It seems there are at least two reasons for our confusion on EMV card usage:

1. Card verification is a multi-step process that may have several options that will work to authorize any given transaction. Check out the Wikipedia article on EMV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV Or, download the 4-volume emvco standards specification and go bit-by-bit.

2. Beyond the requirements of the card issuers and processors, each merchant may impose their own protocol for handling cards, which may explain why the CSR insisted on dipping your obviously non-chip card before swiping it. An abundance of caution. Sort of like having a 20-something insist on seeing everyone's ID before selling them beer at a baseball game, process takes thinking out of the equation.

Oh yeah, there is one more reason that certainly applies in my case - lack of experience with EMV transactions. Last year's trip with my AFCU GlobeTrek VISA was my first, and the primary concern was that every transaction would be completed. All of mine were completed, if you don't count the ones where I pulled the card out of the kiosk before completing ticket purchases. :o

This year, with two chip+pin cards and a better-informed idea of what to expect, I'll pay close attention to how the transactions proceed.

One other point that may apply only to Britain and it's been brought up here as well. When Britain was moving to the adoption of a requirement that all British cards be chip and pin, there was some flack by some groups representing various handicapped people that some would be unable to enter a pin and why should they be prevented from using a credit card for purchases.

As I remember and we discussed here, the compromise was that anybody who felt unable to enter a pin was to be given an alternative and the alternative arrived at seems to have been chip and signature. Now I don't say these things that I know anything for a fact; it is based on stuff I may have read here or there. But in that sense, chip and signature might not be the big mystery to British merchants that it is to merchants in other eu countries. Maybe. Or maybe not.

I will say this. When I first got a couple of chip cards, well the first one was my Citibank AA card which of course has a 3% foreign transadction fee but it was a novelty to me to use it and I did several times in France and in Britain for very small purchases just to get a feel for the lay of the land. This was summer 2011. Then the fcu's we've discussed here up the kazoots began offering their chip and "pin" cards which we all discovered weren't really true chip and pin; call it what you want but they're really chip and signature as default (first Andrews, then State Department and finally PenFed). And Bank America followed suit by offering chip and signature cards one for my ex-Charles Schwab rewards card (and those of us with that card were grandfathered in with no foreign transaction fees or annual fees unlike most of the cash rewards cards offered by BofA but then they also offered a new card, the Travel Rewards card with emv chip, no foreign transaction fee etc.) so I had a plethora of choices in Britain during summer 2011 and as recently as this past February. Never once did any of the cards call for a pin, not once. Not once did any merchant seem surprised when a receipt spit out to be signed, not once. Not once did it not work. But at the time, and I still believe this right now at least as far as Great Britain and especially London is concerned, not once did I think my magnetic stripe cards wouldn't have worked in any of the merchants I used and it brought into question, and we discussed it here, the whole question as to whether this whole emv thing is overblown aty least as long as you stick to the tourist trail.

In any event, I now have the USAA mastercard which it is claimed is true chip and pin. But they have a 1% foreign currency fee but I will try it out when I'm in Europe in June.

But at the time, and I still believe this right now at least as far as Great Britain and especially London is concerned, not once did I think my magnetic stripe cards wouldn't have worked in any of the merchants I used and it brought into question, and we discussed it here, the whole question as to whether this whole emv thing is overblown aty least as long as you stick to the tourist trail.

Now of course this is fine so long as the US and the UK (or any of the Commonwealth nations) share the same English language that you CAN argue with merchants about the "you have to swipe it, no I don't it doesn't have a chip" dialogue, but once you're in a country where the people and merchants speak in a language that you have no fluency in, all bets are off and that's where the EMV card shines.

Ever tried arguing when you can speak English while the other can only speak Polish or Czech? I can waste my time trying to convey the discussion over the language barrier or I can just whip out the EMV card (signature or PIN) and let the clerk read what to do on their credit card machine on what to do next. The latter is much easier to do to get on with life. :D

Now of course this is fine so long as the US and the UK (or any of the Commonwealth nations) share the same English language that you CAN argue with merchants about the "you have to swipe it, no I don't it doesn't have a chip" dialogue, but once you're in a country where the people and merchants speak in a language that you have no fluency in, all bets are off and that's where the EMV card shines.

Ever tried arguing when you can speak English while the other can only speak Polish or Czech? I can waste my time trying to convey the discussion over the language barrier or I can just whip out the EMV card (signature or PIN) and let the clerk read what to do on their credit card machine on what to do next.

Listen, I emphasized I was speaking about Great Britain and especially London and yes the similarity of language (after all English and American are fairly closely allied languages:cool:) is a factor; so is the fact that Londn is a prime prime destination for US tourists and clearly that's a factor too. But while credit card use is not quite as universal in France and Paris as in Britain and I speak fractured French, for the most part I haven't had all that much trouble in Paris either As we move further east, though, credit card usage is not as universal say in a place like Germany or any of the new eu countries. But also, so many of these places deal with hoardes of American tourists with their antiquated credit cards and again, a generalization, they are almost all familiar with swiping a chipless credit card. Now of course, some have terminals which no longer support magnetic stripe cards, some simply refuse to take them for general reasons (liability?).

Again, I'm only presenting what I have experienced but my pattern of travel may be very different from others. Language, customs, familiarity with tourists all play a role in these things.

In any event, I now have the USAA mastercard which it is claimed is true chip and pin.

I'll bring the same card to Europe this year too, and I will not be surprised if/when an attended terminal prints out a receipt for me to sign.

So long as the card also works in cases where the processing terminal requires a PIN to complete the transaction, I'll be happy.

I received my Andrews card and it failed to work in train ticket kiosks in Germany and Austria, and if I used it at a business, I had to sign a CC slip.

Why didn't anything recognize it as a PIN card? Did I fail to do something with Andrews before, or did they not issue me a PIN card?

Waste of time getting the card for the trip, obviously.

It was also a little bit of a pain letting them know I am leaving the country. I called the # on the back of the card, they noted it, but said I also had to call Andews. Waited 20+ minutes on hold with Andrews, and was told I didn't need to call them because they saw the note.

I received my Andrews card and it failed to work in train ticket kiosks in Germany and Austria, and if I used it at a business, I had to sign a CC slip.

Why didn't anything recognize it as a PIN card? Did I fail to do something with Andrews before, or did they not issue me a PIN card?

Waste of time getting the card for the trip, obviously.

It was also a little bit of a pain letting them know I am leaving the country. I called the # on the back of the card, they noted it, but said I also had to call Andews. Waited 20+ minutes on hold with Andrews, and was told I didn't need to call them because they saw the note.

Please someone correct me if i'm wrong, but the Andrews card is both Chip & Pin as well as Chip & Signature. The card only reads as Chip & Sig first, then 2nd is PIN if the sig doesn't work. However those machines that rejected your card only needed PIN, but since Sig was read first, it just automatically assumed it was a Sig card only. Other places that accept both will read your card as Sig first as I mentioned. So a EMV card that is both Sig & PIN is a little useless IMO.
The entire Chip & Sig EMVs made by US banks are all useless, again IMO/IME.

I received my Andrews card and it failed to work in train ticket kiosks in Germany and Austria, and if I used it at a business, I had to sign a CC slip.

Why didn't anything recognize it as a PIN card? Did I fail to do something with Andrews before, or did they not issue me a PIN card?


Please explain the sequence of action that lead you to believe the card failed to work in train ticket kiosks.

As discussed earlier in this thread, the Andrews card prefers signature verification over PIN verification, so that explains why you are required to sign a CC slip at manned POS.

Please someone correct me if i'm wrong, but the Andrews card is both Chip & Pin as well as Chip & Signature. The card only reads as Chip & Sig first, then 2nd is PIN if the sig doesn't work. However those machines that rejected your card only needed PIN, but since Sig was read first, it just automatically assumed it was a Sig card only. Other places that accept both will read your card as Sig first as I mentioned. So a EMV card that is both Sig & PIN is a little useless IMO.
The entire Chip & Sig EMVs made by US banks are all useless, again IMO/IME.

This is NOT how CVM resolution is suppose to execute. If a CVM is not supported by a POS, then it should simply be skipped. Only if the CVM list provided by the card contains no method supported by the POS should the transaction fail due to card incompatibility.

This is NOT how CVM resolution is suppose to execute. If a CVM is not supported by a POS, then it should simply be skipped. Only if the CVM list provided by the card contains no method supported by the POS should the transaction fail due to card incompatibility.

ohh...gotcha...thanks.

...t failed to work in train ticket kiosks in Germany and Austria,

Are you sure that those kiosks accepted credit cards rather than only debit cards? Did they display MasterCard or VISA logos?