Africa - 1 Week in JNB, What to see/do? Safari?

I will be in JNB July 10th early AM till July 176h night. I don't know where to start planning this trip, but maybe if I give some info someone can recommend some stuff.

-There will be 2 of us. Both of us never were in Africa (minus Egypt). Both of us are somewhat fit and don't mind walking.
-We want to do a Safari. This is a must. I need to see some animals.
-Being FTers, I need to pay little and get a lot :) I was looking for the hotels to use points or cash+points (I got on hold the IC JNB Santon for the 14-16th, but not sure what can be seen in that area. I can always cancel without any fees). I do Priority Club mostly and there are a few PC properties in JNB and CPT. Can also do starwood.
-I heard CPT is very nice and wouldn't mind checking out the vineyards and the area. I do love wine.
-I am willing to fly around SA. I got plenty of miles with BA and UA if the airline tickets get too expensive, but can always buy some tickets if need be.
-I do realize it is winter at that time, which can be good or bad when it comes to the safaris and stuff.
-I love photography and plan to rent a Canon zoom lens somewhere. If there is a place that can rent it for me while I am down there, then great!
-I also scuba dive, but I think that shark cage diving would be a bit much. I could though do that shark boat tour.

Thanks in advance

There's not a huge amount to do in JNB. Sandton City has very good shopping and the IC there is pretty good. You could also go on a gold mine tour but I wouldn't prioritise Jo'burg.

CPT is more interesting (Table Mountain, Robben Island, Cape peninsula, winelands) but it will very much be winter there with weather that is worse than the rest of SA.

Head up to Kruger/Sabi Sands to go on safari. July is a good time of year to go because it's the dry season and there won't be so much foliage. Malaria is also less of a problem at that time of year.

If you want to dive, there are plenty of coastal reserves. Sodwana is vey popular but it's a bit of a faff to get there. The closer you get to Mozambique, the warmer the water is. Around the Cape, it's pretty chilly.

Somewhere around Durban could be a good base for diving/shark-related excursions.

I am guessing you are coming from RGN ?? :D

I am guessing you are coming from RGN ?? :D

Maybe :cool:

Head up to Kruger/Sabi Sands to go on safari. Much as I like Kruger, Madikwe and Pilanesberg are closer to JNB and perhaps better options if you only have a few days to spare.

Johan

Much as I like Kruger, Madikwe and Pilanesberg are closer to JNB and perhaps better options if you only have a few days to spare.

Johan

If flying is an option, it's not too different time-wise. I find Pilanesberg a bit claustrophobic (I know that sounds silly).

By the way, do you know if Kwa Maritane has been rebuilt?

Try Kapama .. fly jnb-hds, its a 3 minute transfer !

WWW.kapama.co.za


Check it out on tripadvisor...

By the way, do you know if Kwa Maritane has been rebuilt?You mean after the fire in 2008 or so? Sure it has. In Pilanesberg, I would pick Tshukudu. Anything but claustrophobic ;)

Pilanesberg is fine if you avoid weekends, public holidays and school vacations.

Johan

Try Kapama .. fly jnb-hds, its a 3 minute transfer!Well, from the Eastgate terminal to the gate across Argyle Road it is more like 90 seconds. From there to the lodges is another story.

Anybody who wants to share Kapama River lodge with another 200-odd people can be my guest. If you really must stay at Kapama, go for Buffalo Camp.

Johan

I did MEAN Buffalo Camp !

The Southern Sun casino is a decent resort. Surprisingly Las Vegas-like (O.K., Reno- or AC-like), with the restaurants, bars, and pretty lively casino. They even have a craps table (albeit with poor odds and some unique practices -- but, hey, that's part of the fun). This is the only time I can recall seeing craps, my favorite game, outside the U.S. or Macau, so if you're in a part of the world where you don't have access to full-service casinos, it's a nice diversion.

I also took a side trip to Maputo, which was interesting for one night. The Serena hotel is comfortable, and the street life there (e.g., seeing everything in Portuguese) is fun.

I did MEAN Buffalo Camp !OK, but how were we supposed to guess? It is not what you wrote.

Johan

Ill look into the camps.
Any place to rent a Canon lens?

Ill look into the camps.
Any place to rent a Canon lens?A quick google turned up these guys who appear to be located on the East Rand (near JNB airport): http://www.rentalens.co.za/.

Durban and northwards along the coast from their would certainly have the warmest weather in July.

Personally, I do not think that you can do much in 7 days.

South Africa is an enormous country and takes time to get around.

I will try to break my comments down under a couple of headings to make it easier to read:

Weather:
Cape Town at this time of the year has very short days and can be very wet, windy and cold.

Johannesburg area will be dry, cold at night but not bad through the day (unless you happen to be there when a cold front is passing through).

Durban. Probably the best time of the year to visit here as the heat and humidity is much more bearable. Daytime temperatures will usually be around the 25 degree centigrade mark dropping to around 18 at night. Definitely not cold.

Transport:
Wherever you go, it is best if you can fly. Public transport is not the greatest and whatever you do, avoid the minicab taxis. You can get cheap air tickets on Kulula, 1 Time and Mango.
Hiring a car is vital to get around but you must remember to be aware that hijacking and smash-and-grab crime is quite bad. Certain intersections are known to be black spots for these and will usually have police signboards advising where they are. Keep your windows closed, your doors locked and valuables out of site.
Roads can be in a very bad state although the main intercity highways are usually good. Many of them are now toll roads. There are also a lot of fixed speed cameras, including those that calculate your average speed.
Driving is a great way of seeing the wonderful South African scenery though and I really enjoy it.
There may not be any places left but you could look at travelling on the Blue Train from Johannesburg to Cape Town. This is a 24 hour ride if you catch it in Pretoria and an hour or so less from Johannesburg. This is a luxury train with first class service on board.

Things to do:
Johannesburg
People get confused when they come to SA on holiday. You probably do not want to go into the city. Most tourists head straight for the Sandton area which is actualy a seperate town north of Johannesburg. You could stay here and use it as a base to go to Pretoria to visit the Vootrekker Museum, the Union Buildings (I think they are still called that). There are official bus tours of Pretoria. You can also do one of Johannesburg which might be an eye-opener. For animals, there is a tour to the Rhino and Lion Reserve. A tour of Soweto is also a good idea. I found a site which has these and a lot of others on the web (http://www.sa-venues.com/travel/tours/pretoria.php)

Durban
Durban has miles of beaches and warm water. It has good surfing and snorkelling. Water clarity is usually better at this time of the year as there is little rain and the rivers are not spewing all sorts of rubbish into the sea.
uShaka (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ushaka%20marine%20world&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CIQBEBYwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ushakamarineworld.co.za%2F&ei=DhHGT5qqMvSM0wWNhPyCBg&usg=AFQjCNFHQOtQwYUSFpfjncC67NnB2vsNVg) is a fantastic day out. I have been there a couple of times. It is reasonably priced and there are many activities to enjoy. If you fancy a swim with the dolphins, remember to take you swimming costume with you.
The Valley of a Thousand Hills (http://www.zulu.org.za/index.php?1000hills) is inland of Durban but has some fantastic scenery. There are plenty of roadside stalls selling local crafts and a couple of good places to eat and drink.
Oribi Gorge is a couple of hours down the South Coast but is probably well worth a drive. Apart from fantastic scenery, there is a good chance that you will see plenty of smaller game. It is also home to the longest 'long drop' in South Africa - a long drop for those who don't know what it is is an old fashioned bucket toilet.
There are plenty of other things to do around here and I would suggest a search on the internet.

Cape Town
This is place where most tourists go and who can blame them. Even n winter when it is at its worst it is great. Or at least I think so and I do not even come from this part of the world!
There are so many things to see and do, places to visit, wine to drink, good food to eat.
Firstly, a visit to a wine farm is a must but I would suggest using an official tour company as you can then taste as much as you like without having to drive.
Cape Point is a good place to visit and, if the weather is not too bad, a trip out to Robben Island might be enjoyable.
If you enjoy driving, you could make an early start and head of for Cape Aghulas, the southern-most point of Africa.
A short drive into the Winelands and you will find yourself in Stellenbosch, a beautiful student town with many buildings still in the Old Cape Durch style. Lots of little restaurants and bars too. Across the Cape Town to Johannesburg highway is Paarl which is also worth a visit.
From Cape Town harbour, you can get helicopter tours which will take you on scenic flights all around the peninsular. I think the float plane trips are also still available.
Of course, you cannot miss going to the top of Table Mountain.You can either walk up (you need to be fairly fit for this) or you can get the cable car.
Outside of Cape Town is the Spiers wine estate where there is a cheetah breeding programme. Expensive but worth a visit. The wine is not bad either ;)
A trip to seal island is always fun, especially if the sea is a bit rough! No good if you suffer from sea-sickness.

There are so many more things which you can do in and around Cape Town but I have a meeting to go to so I need to wrap this up.

As you can see, there is way too much to do in just a week and I would seriously suggest that you spend the whole time in in one place. Surf the net a bit to plan your stay and then use official tour companies and a hired car and I can almost guarantee that you will not have a quiet day for your whole stay.

Enjoy it wherever you go. It is a wonderful country with some really friendly and helpful people.

Welcome to Flyertalk, Welsh Eagle. ^

Great first post (although I'm not sure I agree that Durban's best weather is in July ;)) - many good suggestions for the OP.

Wow! Thanks for the write up!
Looks like Cape town will be on the top of the list followed by Durban.

Hmm the other person I'm going with really wants to go on a safari.
How are the parks near Cape Town? From what I could find online, there are a few about a hr or so outside of the city.
If not, How would a 3 day Kruger park safari then the rest of the time in Cape Town be? Safari looks like it has to be in there.

There are quite a few lodges that have sales.
Kapama South - R1650
Shindzela - R1500

Either that, or just do day trips out of CPT.

And how does one get to the camps? I looked at some flight in/out of HDS and doing something like JNB-HDS-CPT would be R4100/pp

How are the parks near Cape Town?The only one I would recommend is Bushmans Kloof, but that is not really a 100% safari destination.

The problem with the Western Cape reserves is that the some of the species people expect to see (e.g. giraffe, white rhino) were never indigenous to the area, because the habitat is not suitable. With the exception of Bushmans Kloof, the lodges have introduced them anyway, plus weird stuff such as white lions and black springbok. That makes them more like kingsize zoos than game reserves. Bushmans Kloof has only indigenous game, but not the full species complement. Lions are missing, for example.

Shindzela - R1500Shindzela is really nice, but not a luxury lodge by any means. Accommodation is fine, but basic. The food is not fancy, but amazingly good. The best thing about Shindzela is that they have the whole farm (Johnniesdale) to themselves. No other vehicles, no taking standbys, not ten-minutes viewing slots, etc. They are really serious about their gameviewing, to the point where they will wake up all the guests at 2.30 a.m. and get them on the vehicle to look for a leopard that can be heard prowling about camp.

Another affordable option that I can warmly recommend is Gomo Gomo. More luxurious accommodation, but the food is not as good as at Shindzela. Not that there is anything wrong with it. Gomo Gomo also has a couple of excellent trackers who are very good at finding animals.

And how does one get to the camps?Transfers can be arranged from HDS. Gomo Gomo, which is not that far, will come and pick you up. The transfers are a bit of a rip-off, but there is not much that can be done about that.

I looked at some flight in/out of HDS and doing something like JNB-HDS-CPT would be R4100/ppHDS flights are a rip-off too, with 99% of the passsengers being overseas tourists SAX that are apparently willing to pay ridiculous fares. It is a monopoly route, so the only alternative is to drive all the way.

Johan

I went to South Africa twice in July/August and the weather was nice. No rain and it was only getting colder after sunset.

If you are in Johannesburg I would suggest you visit Pretoria. In winter the jacarandas are not as beautiful as in summer but there is still a lot to see(Voortrekker Monument, Union Buildings, Church Square). From Pretoria it's about a half day drive to Hazyview from where you could visit the Kruger park or other scenic routes(God's window, the three rondavels). From Gauteng you could also head to Cape town(flying, but driving through the Karoo is also wonderful).

I suggest you make a choice when you have only one week. Do some sightseeing around Johannesburg/Pretoria and than choose one(!) other destination(the Cape, Hazyview or Durban).

I went to South Africa twice in July/August and the weather was nice. No rain and it was only getting colder after sunset.That is not true for all of the country, though. SA has pretty distinct climate zones.

Johan

Why not just rent-a-car and drive the 5 hours from the airport to Kruger? It seems pretty easy to book in-park accomodations online at sanparks. If you want cheap safari, this is a no-brainer. The OP would have 5 days in the park. A week or ten days would be better, but 5 is pretty good! And the price is affordable.

I went to South Africa twice in July/August and the weather was nice. No rain and it was only getting colder after sunset.

If you are in Johannesburg I would suggest you visit Pretoria. In winter the jacarandas are not as beautiful as in summer but there is still a lot to see(Voortrekker Monument, Union Buildings, Church Square). ).

I am glad to read this post. We are in the beginning stages of planning our trip this dec to south africa and I wanted to see pretoria and get a little sense of history. Ive heard a variety of opinions, friends from capetown couldnt understand why anyone would want to go there, said even south africans dont visit, and others have found it worthwhile. We are flying in and out of JNB so it seems to make sense to include pretoria in the visit.

I am glad to read this post. We are in the beginning stages of planning our trip this dec to south africa and I wanted to see pretoria and get a little sense of history. Ive heard a variety of opinions, friends from capetown couldnt understand why anyone would want to go there, said even south africans dont visit, and others have found it worthwhile. We are flying in and out of JNB so it seems to make sense to include pretoria in the visit.

If it were me, Pretoria would be a fairly low priority. There are the Union Buildings (seat of the government), various museums and the Voortrekker monument.

I'd maybe be inclined to see the Union Buildings and gardens. The monument is rather dark and oppressive - not exactly something I'd recommend for a holiday (or any time to be honest :p).

That said, Pretoria is only an hour away fom Joburg so if you do want to go it can be done in a day.

Is there any particular period of South African history you're intrested in?


Edit: Thinking about this a bit more, if you're staying for a few days in Joburg then Pretoria is probably worth a visit. If you're interested in history, going from Johannesburg to Pretoria always feels to me like you've stepped back in time by a few decades. :D

However, if you're thinking of spending time in Pretoria at the expense of, say, Cape Town/Natal/wherever, I would give it a miss. There's plenty of history to find elsewhere.

Opinions vary, but I would only visit Pretoria if I could really not think of anything else to do. There are more exciting museums and monuments elsewhere on this planet, that's for sure.

The Jacarandas are rather nice if you visit at the right time of year, but still not worth a detour.

Johan

Thank you both for your point of views on Pretoria. I wasn't planning to spend more than an afternoon there to see the monument and buildings and there is a house/museum we'd like to see that is on the outside of town there is not a particular period of history but i never like to go uninformed about past and current history and concerns. We have actually done military tourism to battle sites in Asia and Europe that provide insight into how and why borders came into being and what hills or water provide protection. I do realize that is not generally ones primary purpose of travel to Africa so I wnt be spending a lot of time this first time.

if you have resding suggestions I'm all ears. One suggestion is the covenant by Michener. I've read long walk to freedom and just bought a memoir by Gillian slovo who has an interesting lineage.


Thanks for all your suggestions.

With only a week in SA you'd be hard pressed to see all the wonderful things that your fellow FTers are advising you. My last trip to SA lasted 5 weeks and we still didn't get to most of it. To maximize your time, I'd just transfer from the international terminal at JNB and fly to the Kruger Mphumalanga airport closer to the Kruger Park. It is maybe a 45 minute flight. From there many lodges can pick you up and take you to the park or you could rent a car if you want to go at driving alone.

After 2/3 days there, fly to CT and do all the touristy stuff (Table Mountain was even voted as one of the 7 Natural Wonders of the World last year), maybe a one day trip out to some of the wineries especially around Stellenbosh as other posters have noted (just be aware that many of them are closed on Sundays), and after a few days fly back to JNB.

If you have a day or so there before your flight, use the Gautrain from the Airport or Sandton to take you to Pretoria for the Union Buildings/Jacarandas etc. Even though I use to live in JNB, I wouldn't recommend it on such a short trip, except if you really want to see the Apartheid museum which is quite moving and a great eye opener.

And remember, in SA we drive on the same side of the road as the Brits, and we use mainly stick shifts so if you are planning on renting a car, make sure you specifically ask for an automatic. SAFE TRAVELS, YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE SA!

If I were you, I´d spend 3-4 days on safari (Pilanesberg or Madikwe which are a few hours drive from JNB) and 3-4 days in Cape Town.

3-4days on safari should be enough to see most/all the major animals (I saw plenty of all types in Pilanesberg last July except for leopards)

Weather in Cape Town can be somewhat unpredicable in winter, can be either rainy/cold or sunny and pleasanty warm (20-25°C during the afternoon) as during my stay.

Thank you both for your point of views on Pretoria. I wasn't planning to spend more than an afternoon there to see the monument and buildings and there is a house/museum we'd like to see that is on the outside of town there is not a particular period of history but i never like to go uninformed about past and current history and concerns. We have actually done military tourism to battle sites in Asia and Europe that provide insight into how and why borders came into being and what hills or water provide protection. I do realize that is not generally ones primary purpose of travel to Africa so I wnt be spending a lot of time this first time.

if you have resding suggestions I'm all ears. One suggestion is the covenant by Michener. I've read long walk to freedom and just bought a memoir by Gillian slovo who has an interesting lineage.


Thanks for all your suggestions.

If you're interested in battlefields, South Africa sadly has quite a few.

Natal has the most well known battlefields like Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift from the Anglo-Zulu war and there are also some around Ladysmith and Dundee from the Boer War. They're in the north of the province and about a 4-5 hour drive from Johannesburg.

Depending on where you're going, there are also others elsewhere - Kimberley and Mafeking off the top of my head but they're a bit out of the way.

There are loads of companies that offer battlefield tours. Some can drive you straight there from Joburg.

You could also look into visiting the Cradle of Humankind which is fairly close to Joburg.

Jason, you have had some excellent advice here from many, many people. So much so, that you are probably more confused than ever.

What I can tell you is that, wherever you decide to visit, at the end of your 7 days, you will be drooling with anticipation of your next visit.

Enjoy yourself, listen to the locals (mainly about where it is safe to go and when, etc), carry lots of change for the tolls, keep your eyes open whle driving, don't make it too obvious that you are a tourist (i.e. cameras in abundance hanging around your neck, travellers cheques being flashed around (does anyone still use 'em? :rolleyes:)) and have a great time.

insight into how and why borders came into beingHave you read How the States Got Their Shapes by Mark Stein? US states, not African, by interesting nevertheless. I keep a copy in the bathroom, as the chapters are suitably short.

if you have resding suggestions I'm all ears.Oh boy, where shall I start?

- With Alan Paton, of course. Cry, the Beloved Country is a classic, and for good reason.

- Classics by other SA authors : The Conservationist (Nadine Gordimer); The Story of an African Farm (Olive Schreiner); Circles in a Forest, The Day the Swallows Spoke, Toorbos and Fiela's Child (Dalene Mathee. Afrikaans readers will no doubt prefer them in that language).

- Then you have Doris Lessing and Breyten Breytenbach. The best apartheid (prison) literature includes his The True Confessions of an Albino Terrorist and A Season in Paradise. Other excellent books in this field are Bandiet: Seven Years in a South African Prison by Hugh Levin (a shocking and gripping story); Inside by Jeremy Cronin (if you are into poetry) and Longlive! by Menán du Plessis (fiction). Less well known, but remarkable and well worth reading is Brief Authority by Charles Hooper.

-J.M. Coetzee can be a bit too much on the intellectual side for my taste, but Boyhood is a short and very accessible autobiographical account of childhood in Apartheid SA.

-In the (military) history field the choice is endless. On the Zulus I recommend The Anatomy of the Zulu Army (Ian Knight); The Washing of the Spears (Morris) and Ropes of Sand (Laband). On the Boer War: The Boer War (Thomas Pakenham) and the best autobiography by far to come out of that conflict, Commando by Deneys Reitz. On the Border War: Eden's Exiles: One Soldier's Fight for Paradise, and The Buffalo Soldiers, both by Jan Breytenbach (amazingly, colonel Breytenbach is the brother of Breyten Breytenbach, the staunch Apartheid opponent); 19 with a Bullet - A South African Paratrooper in Angola (Granger Korff). General SA history: The Afrikaners by Hermann Gioliomee (if you want to understand South Africa, this is the one book you must read. Take it from me.); Rhodes, the Race for Africa by Anthony Thomas; The Scramble for Africa (Pakenham again)

-If you cast your net a bit wider in time, distance and scope, there is the biography Storyteller -The Many Lives of Laurens van der Post, by J.D.F Jones, not to mention all the books Van der Post himself wrote. He was a bit of a fraud, though. There are lots of books about travel in the (pre)colonial days, e.g. A Hunter's Wanderings in Africa (Selous) and Travels in Southern Africa (Delegorgue), as well as more recent ones by well-known authors such as Waugh (Remote People) and Greene (Journey Without Maps) and almost unknown ones, e.g. Henno Martin (The Sheltering Desert), a book I warmly recommend.

Should you be going to the Kruger NP, then African Eden - the Kruger National Park 1902-1946 (Stevenson-Hamilton) and The Kruger National Park: a Social and Political History (Jane Carruthers) are the titles I would suggest.

There, these books should keep you busy for a while! When you are done, I can think of quite a few more.

Johan

Wirelessly posted (Android: Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 4.0.3; GT-I9100 Build/IML74K) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.133 Mobile Safari/535.19)

If I was to rent a car and drive to the camps I mentioned do I need to rent a SUV or will a regular car be enough? And how is driving on the left?

[SIZE=1]If I was to rent a car and drive to the camps I mentioned do I need to rent a SUV or will a regular car be enough? And how is driving on the left?To Kapama or Shindzela?

Any old car will do.

Kapama is a cinch, tar all the way.

To Shindzela, you drive up Argyle Road past HDS airport, over the Klaserie River and throught the control gate. You continue straight past Royal Legends (on your right) and Gomo Gomo (on your left), then turn right at the sign onto the cutline (boundary road between two farms). Argyle Road is tar, from the turn-off it is gravel. It is quite a long drive on the gravel, you go straigth for quite a distance, turn left, straight for a long distance again, turn right, drive past Ngala and turn right into Johnniesdale. In the rainy season (the austral summer), it could get tricky if you are driving a small car, a bit of clearance will make things easier.

Johan

Have you read How the States Got Their Shapes by Mark Stein? US states, not African, by interesting nevertheless. I keep a copy in the bathroom, as the chapters are suitably short.

Oh boy, where shall I start?

- With Alan Paton, of course. Cry, the Beloved Country is a classic, and for good reason.

- Classics by other SA authors : The Conservationist (Nadine Gordimer); The Story of an African Farm (Olive Schreiner); Circles in a Forest, The Day the Swallows Spoke, Toorbos and Fiela's Child (Dalene Mathee. Afrikaans readers will no doubt prefer them in that language).

- Then you have Doris Lessing and Breyten Breytenbach. The best apartheid (prison) literature includes his The True Confessions of an Albino Terrorist and A Season in Paradise. Other excellent books in this field are Bandiet: Seven Years in a South African Prison by Hugh Levin (a shocking and gripping story); Inside by Jeremy Cronin (if you are into poetry) and Longlive! by Menán du Plessis (fiction). Less well known, but remarkable and well worth reading is Brief Authority by Charles Hooper.

-J.M. Coetzee can be a bit too much on the intellectual side for my taste, but Boyhood is a short and very accessible autobiographical account of childhood in Apartheid SA.

-In the (military) history field the choice is endless. On the Zulus I recommend The Anatomy of the Zulu Army (Ian Knight); The Washing of the Spears (Morris) and Ropes of Sand (Laband). On the Boer War: The Boer War (Thomas Pakenham) and the best autobiography by far to come out of that conflict, Commando by Deneys Reitz. On the Border War: Eden's Exiles: One Soldier's Fight for Paradise, and The Buffalo Soldiers, both by Jan Breytenbach (amazingly, colonel Breytenbach is the brother of Breyten Breytenbach, the staunch Apartheid opponent); 19 with a Bullet - A South African Paratrooper in Angola (Granger Korff). General SA history: The Afrikaners by Hermann Gioliomee (if you want to understand South Africa, this is the one book you must read. Take it from me.); Rhodes, the Race for Africa by Anthony Thomas; The Scramble for Africa (Pakenham again)

-If you cast your net a bit wider in time, distance and scope, there is the biography Storyteller -The Many Lives of Laurens van der Post, by J.D.F Jones, not to mention all the books Van der Post himself wrote. He was a bit of a fraud, though. There are lots of books about travel in the (pre)colonial days, e.g. A Hunter's Wanderings in Africa (Selous) and Travels in Southern Africa (Delegorgue), as well as more recent ones by well-known authors such as Waugh (Remote People) and Greene (Journey Without Maps) and almost unknown ones, e.g. Henno Martin (The Sheltering Desert), a book I warmly recommend.

Should you be going to the Kruger NP, then African Eden - the Kruger National Park 1902-1946 (Stevenson-Hamilton) and The Kruger National Park: a Social and Political History (Jane Carruthers) are the titles I would suggest.

There, these books should keep you busy for a while! When you are done, I can think of quite a few more.

Johan

Thanks so much for the reading list. It is most appreciated. I don't think I'll be able to read all but I'm glad I have a few months time before we leave to start this great list and be a little more educated.

If you're interested in battlefields, South Africa sadly has quite a few.




unfortunately everywhere does. And traveling is a mix of nature and beauty and the history of man which isn't always so pretty.


Can you provide more comments on the cradle of humankind. Worth visiting?

That is not true for all of the country, though. SA has pretty distinct climate zones.

JohanTrue altough I had no problems in the places I visited(Gauteng, Mpumalanga, Limpopo, Freestate, Northern Cape and Western Cape).

Any old car will do.


Indeed, but lock your doors at all time while driving. Driving at the left is not really a problem if you keep going with the "flow", you'll get used to it after 2 days.

Indeed, but lock your doors at all time while driving. Driving at the left is not really a problem if you keep going with the "flow", you'll get used to it after 2 days.Sound advice, but most rental cars in SA nowadays have doors that automatically lock once the vehicle gets moving.

Anybody flying into HDS and driving to a lodge from there need not really worry about safety. The airport is beyond the first control gate, so in a restricted area where there is not much crime by SA standards, and traffic is light.

Johan

Have you read How the States Got Their Shapes by Mark Stein? US states, not African, by interesting nevertheless. I keep a copy in the bathroom, as the chapters are suitably short.

Oh boy, where shall I start?

- With Alan Paton, of course. Cry, the Beloved Country is a classic, and for good reason.

- Classics by other SA authors : The Conservationist (Nadine Gordimer); The Story of an African Farm (Olive Schreiner); Circles in a Forest, The Day the Swallows Spoke, Toorbos and Fiela's Child (Dalene Mathee. Afrikaans readers will no doubt prefer them in that language).

- Then you have Doris Lessing and Breyten Breytenbach. The best apartheid (prison) literature includes his The True Confessions of an Albino Terrorist and A Season in Paradise. Other excellent books in this field are Bandiet: Seven Years in a South African Prison by Hugh Levin (a shocking and gripping story); Inside by Jeremy Cronin (if you are into poetry) and Longlive! by Menán du Plessis (fiction). Less well known, but remarkable and well worth reading is Brief Authority by Charles Hooper.

-J.M. Coetzee can be a bit too much on the intellectual side for my taste, but Boyhood is a short and very accessible autobiographical account of childhood in Apartheid SA.

-In the (military) history field the choice is endless. On the Zulus I recommend The Anatomy of the Zulu Army (Ian Knight); The Washing of the Spears (Morris) and Ropes of Sand (Laband). On the Boer War: The Boer War (Thomas Pakenham) and the best autobiography by far to come out of that conflict, Commando by Deneys Reitz. On the Border War: Eden's Exiles: One Soldier's Fight for Paradise, and The Buffalo Soldiers, both by Jan Breytenbach (amazingly, colonel Breytenbach is the brother of Breyten Breytenbach, the staunch Apartheid opponent); 19 with a Bullet - A South African Paratrooper in Angola (Granger Korff). General SA history: The Afrikaners by Hermann Gioliomee (if you want to understand South Africa, this is the one book you must read. Take it from me.); Rhodes, the Race for Africa by Anthony Thomas; The Scramble for Africa (Pakenham again)

-If you cast your net a bit wider in time, distance and scope, there is the biography Storyteller -The Many Lives of Laurens van der Post, by J.D.F Jones, not to mention all the books Van der Post himself wrote. He was a bit of a fraud, though. There are lots of books about travel in the (pre)colonial days, e.g. A Hunter's Wanderings in Africa (Selous) and Travels in Southern Africa (Delegorgue), as well as more recent ones by well-known authors such as Waugh (Remote People) and Greene (Journey Without Maps) and almost unknown ones, e.g. Henno Martin (The Sheltering Desert), a book I warmly recommend.

Should you be going to the Kruger NP, then African Eden - the Kruger National Park 1902-1946 (Stevenson-Hamilton) and The Kruger National Park: a Social and Political History (Jane Carruthers) are the titles I would suggest.

There, these books should keep you busy for a while! When you are done, I can think of quite a few more.

Johan

Its been a few months and Ive been reading away and just wanted to thank you again for providing this reading list. Ive read The Afrikaaners, Scramble for Africa, Boers, Gold and War and Lessing, Paton, Gordimer... I also found a fulbright scholar mongane serote book and Ive got coetzee in reserve . Ive found some music in the library from a series called next step soweto as well. Its interesting to read the English versions vs Gioliomee frame of reference. Like all histories, there is no one easy explication for where we are right now, and why and what makes humans act they way they do and how far they will go to preserve the status quo or in pursuit of the all mighty dollar (or rand).

Everyone prepares differently for their experiences, but this helps set the stage for me even as there has been so much change in the near past.

Entirely my pleasure.

I've just read A Just Defiance by Peter Harris and Cocktail Hour Under the Tree of Forgetfullness by Alexandra Fuller. Both non-fiction, but very different books. The latter is mostly about Kenya and Rhodesia, not South Africa, but it is very funny.

Johan

Entirely my pleasure.

I've just read A Just Defiance by Peter Harris and Cocktail Hour Under the Tree of Forgetfullness by Alexandra Fuller. Both non-fiction, but very different books. The latter is mostly about Kenya and Rhodesia, not South Africa, but it is very funny.

Johan

I'd highly recommend "Playing the Enemy," the book on which the (somewhat mediocre) Invictus movie is based on. The book offers excellent insight into Nelson Mandela's life, apartheid, how South Africa avoided civil war, and the structure of S. African society. A really good read.

I'm still trying to finish another great book, My Traitor's Heart, which provides even further insight into race issues in South Africa and is a good follow up if you like Playing the Enemy.

My Traitor's Heart is very good; raw and honest. If you like that book, you may enjoy Malan's new book, 'Resident Alien', which is a collection of some of his more recent writings.

Another fiction suggestion is Zakes Mda's 'Heart of Redness'. JM Coetzee's 'Disgrace' is very good, but maybe read it after you've got back; it's pretty grim.

Not South Africa-specific, but two other books I've really enjoyed: Ryszard Kapuscinski's 'The Shadow of the Sun', and John Reader's 'Africa: A Biography of the Continent'

Just when I thought the unread pile was getting a llittle smaller, thanks to all those who added their suggestions for great reads... always open to suggestions and great reads to expand the mind. I am more of a non fiction reader so those are really appreciated. I actually enjoyed Invictus but Ive yet to see a movie that was better than the book so "playing with the enemy" is definitely high on the list. Cant wait until late November and I get my feet on the ground!

Entirely my pleasure.

I've just read A Just Defiance by Peter Harris and Cocktail Hour Under the Tree of Forgetfullness by Alexandra Fuller. Both non-fiction, but very different books. The latter is mostly about Kenya and Rhodesia, not South Africa, but it is very funny.

Johan

Johan, thudandblunder and iaphx

I know I am a broken record, but great suggestions and thank you. After the large history tomes I finished, it was a pleasure to read two alexandra fuller books, the one you suggested about her mother, and the other about her growing up,. Lots of overlap in subject matter, but funny and poignant.

A Traitor's Heart was real moving. Could not put it down and read it in two days and went on the internet to see if there was any more information on the alcocks or more writing by malan.. I see resident alien, and there were a couple of interviews from the last couple of years. Interesting that all of these books were actually at my local public library but A Just Defiance was not.. so I am considering purchasing it.

Reading Playing with the enemy now. So far what has been most interesting is all the pre-work that was done with Mandela to acclimate him to life outside of prison. It seems that even though these things were secret, there were a lot of people involved, as he went to houses of his prison guards etc... seems like there would be lots of people/places for information to leak out. How much of a surprise was it in SA when he was released?

As Ive read, one comment has been that all of these classics dont really reveal the current state of affairs after apartheid ended.

What would be good source for understanding current events and what the key issues and concerns are today in SA? Thanks

Reading Playing with the enemy now. So far what has been most interesting is all the pre-work that was done with Mandela to acclimate him to life outside of prison. It seems that even though these things were secret, there were a lot of people involved, as he went to houses of his prison guards etc... seems like there would be lots of people/places for information to leak out. How much of a surprise was it in SA when he was released?

The impression that both my wife and I got from reading Playing the Enemy was how unbelievably fortunate South Africa was to have Nelson Mandela. I haven't read enough other stuff to know with 100% certainty, but Carlin sure makes it seem like the county would likely have gone up in flames without him. He seems like the essential figure to keep the blacks and whites from killing each other.

And relevant to this thread, I get the impression that we all might not be going on safari in South Africa if Mandela hadn't been around to keep the transition peaceful.

As Ive read, one comment has been that all of these classics dont really reveal the current state of affairs after apartheid ended.

What would be good source for understanding current events and what the key issues and concerns are today in SA? Thanks

You are welcome, worldiswide...I'm more than happy to chat about two of my favourite topics: South Africa and books.

To address your question, while the definitive histories have yet to be written, two books that come to mind are Allister Sparks's 'Beyond the Miracle' and Alec Russell's 'Bring Me My Machine Gun'.

Neither of these books paint a terribly cheerful picture, but they reflect where things stand politically, with the post-liberation euphoria giving way to the more mundane issues of growth, equity, government service delivery et al, with the inevitable hangover after the party. South African society suffers from a number of challenges, most notably high levels of HIV and crushing levels of unemployment, especially for those with poor education, coupled with a diabolically bad education system.

There are bright spots for sure, one being tourism, another being the introduction of social grants, which have made a huge difference especially in rural areas. But overall, the mood is quite cautious...but where is that not true at the moment? :)

South African society suffers from a number of challenges, most notably high levels of HIV and crushing levels of unemployment, especially for those with poor education, coupled with a diabolically bad education system.I should like to add crime and corruption to that list. Most of the ruling elite probably see Malema as the main challenge at the moment, though.

There are bright spots for sure, one being tourismNot as bright as it should and could be, and that's not only because of the inevitable hangover after the World Cup.

Johan

How much of a surprise was it in SA when he was released?I was in Botswana when that happened, and the (white) South Africans I was with were suprised when Mandela's release was announced.

Johan

To update:

I took the trip a few month ago.
We flew into JNB from PER. Got in early in the AM and headed to the arrivals lounge (SAA) to grab a shower. We headed to Sixt (or First in SA) to get the rental car. I reserved a midsize and got a upgrade to a MB Cclass with GPS :). I was a bit scared leaving JNB, but it was quite nice. Highway most of the way though we ended up taking some backroads. I did get stopped for a "random check". 5hrs later we were in Kapama game reserve. We had 2 nights in the southern camp. When we arrived, they were waiting for us with cold towels and welcome drinks. We made it for lunch and were able to make the afternoon game drive. The next few days were simply amazing. Everything was perfect! The room was excellent, we had animals right on our porch! Game drives were excellent with great guides. there was even hot coco waiting for us after the drives to warm up (evening ones got cold at night)
Overall I would recommend this place in a heartbeat!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Dgd-n8Yhm1s/UDSo9DB42WI/AAAAAAAAIkI/ajOJkkCMuAo/s400/IMG_1327.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8XOXm0LXGC4/UDSpFfgXe0I/AAAAAAAAIlM/5jNZSdNICrQ/s400/IMG_1384.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-SE0AvQcnUuU/UDSpWx38XGI/AAAAAAAAInI/7bjRtWr824Y/s400/IMG_1447.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lcP4H1aPEpw/UDSqR40DyMI/AAAAAAAAIto/eX8_vgQCDys/s400/IMG_1626.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0FW4ggFv2Ic/UDSq2BnTAkI/AAAAAAAAIx4/QDSdE8dhWb0/s400/IMG_1823.jpg


We then drove back to JNB where we spent the night at the IC JNB. Very nice hotel! I wish we would of booked a later flight to enjoy the hotel more. Staff was excellent and friendly. Took a SAA flight to CPT. We were there for 3 nights. We stayed at the HIX cape town city center. We hired a private driver one day to go to all the vineyards (again excellent! our driver was great) and the next day we rented a car and drove to the cape of good hope and all over the cape. Got to see penguins also :)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bHgbutdYVbw/UDSrVzSCaFI/AAAAAAAAI1o/GRJ1lnvoc_o/s400/IMG_1963.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FFIhR4pHNSg/UDSrn4uOCaI/AAAAAAAAI3w/Tww9yutF-7g/s400/IMG_2014.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qEQCH6kMgLU/UDSsL6SuS1I/AAAAAAAAI78/36qkE1Xzwfg/s400/IMG_2100.jpg

We headed to the airport the next day and flew CPT-JNB-PER
Overall it was a excellent week and have to go again.

You are welcome, worldiswide...I'm more than happy to chat about two of my favourite topics: South Africa and books.

To address your question, while the definitive histories have yet to be written, two books that come to mind are Allister Sparks's 'Beyond the Miracle' and Alec Russell's 'But overall, the mood is quite cautious...but where is that not true at the moment? :)

Ahh. A kindred spirit. Books and travel. A great combination. I will look these up. Agreed that cautious is the word or world at the moment.

I was in Botswana when that happened, and the (white) South Africans I was with were suprised when Mandela's release was announced.



Johan

Maybe the state apparatus really worked well until the bitter end. It's kind of amazing that there were no leaks. I couldn't have imagined something like that in the US for instance.

The impression that both my wife and I got from reading Playing the Enemy was how unbelievably fortunate South Africa was to have Nelson Mandela. I haven't read enough other stuff to know with 100% certainty, but Carlin sure makes it seem like the county would likely have gone up in flames without him. He seems like the essential figure to keep the blacks and whites from killing each other.

And relevant to this thread, I get the impression that we all might not be going on safari in South Africa if Mandela hadn't been around to keep the transition peaceful.

While I agree that Mandelas personal dignity and leadership example made the transition possible. Every country has to tackle what's underneath and a long legacy of some pretty terrible things at a personal and political level and south Africa future is still being written 18 years on. I'm glad to be putting my feet on the ground to see for myself. Any other pretrip preparations you and others can suggest?

Maybe the state apparatus really worked well until the bitter end. It's kind of amazing that there were no leaks. I couldn't have imagined something like that in the US for instance.De Klerk announce the release on February 2nd, which took place on the 11th.

I still have my rather extensive field notes from back then. On the 2nd I crossed into Botswana from SA at Pars Halt, on the 11th I was up in Chobe. The only mention of this historic event is a single word presumably penciled in as an afterthought in the margin on the 11th: Mandela. There is, on the other hand, a full account of getting stuck on a ridge near the Chobe airstrip and having to jack up the vehicle, which was resting on its fuel tanks. Presumably, that was a more pressing concern at the time, despite being of a somewhat more mundane character.

Johan

Any other pretrip preparations you and others can suggest?

If you're going by yourself (instead of on a tour), brush up on your charcoal BBQ skills. :) The "braai" is practically a religion in South Africa. T-bone steak and boerewors (sausages, a little like bratwurst). My family is quite carnivorous, but after about 5 days we were relieved to get some fish (which is also quite good in South Africa -- just less common).

De Klerk announce the release on February 2nd, which took place on the 11th.

I still have my rather extensive field notes from back then. On the 2nd I crossed into Botswana from SA at Pars Halt, on the 11th I was up in Chobe. The only mention of this historic event is a single word presumably penciled in as an afterthought in the margin on the 11th: Mandela. There is, on the other hand, a full account of getting stuck on a ridge near the Chobe airstrip and having to jack up the vehicle, which was resting on its fuel tanks. Presumably, that was a more pressing concern at the time, despite being of a somewhat more mundane character.

Johan

It's funny, because if you read Playing with the Enemy, that seemed to be the reaction of most whites in South Africa that day. Even those who weren't stuck in the mud!

Nice pictures, jason8612. ^

To address your question, while the definitive histories have yet to be written, two books that come to mind are Allister Sparks's 'Beyond the Miracle' and Alec Russell's 'Bring Me My Machine Gun'.

:)



Beyond the Miracle was excellent. I really liked the depth of discussion in the critical industries, especially the SABC and media post apartheid, and the AIDS discussion. The idea that there were really three separate groups trying to rule with different perspectives; prisoners who knew Afrikaaners and Afrikaneers exiles who were educated overseas and had not lived in South Africa for years, and township opposition leaders .. majority rule is not homogeneous at all. I still have Beyond the Machine Gun in the reading pile.

I would also like to suggest two books on Zimbabwe if a little OT. The Fear by Peter Goodwin.. on the 2008 post election chaos some pages describing how each torture victim wound up in the hospital (and they were the lucky ones) are very difficult to read and even harder to fathom human beings doing these things to others and Zen Zele.by J Nozip Maraire. letters from a Zim mother to her Harvard neurosurgeon daughter about losing sigh of where you come from.

Guess I could do the legwork but, just shoot me, it's so easy just to ask here. Are the aforementioned books primarily in paper and widely available, major bookstores, Amazon etc? How about e-books? Available in that format? I admit to really loving my Kindle as it allows me to travel with many books rather than a couple. Except for guidebooks, I don't find the e-versions of those easy to use, especially on the iPhone. Thanks.

Guess I could do the legwork but, just shoot me, it's so easy just to ask here. Are the aforementioned books primarily in paper and widely available, major bookstores, Amazon etc? How about e-books? Available in that format? I admit to really loving my Kindle as it allows me to travel with many books rather than a couple. Except for guidebooks, I don't find the e-versions of those easy to use, especially on the iPhone. Thanks.

No shooting here. There are a lot of books mentioned in this thread and I found almost all of them in my local libraries north of ORD. All were hardcover. A couple of them I liked so I bought copies. All are available through Amazon and most as ebooks. What are you most interested in reading about?

Thanks for the reply. I guess just general history, not too heavy, about South Africa and the region. First time there so it would be nice to have the overview as a point of reference.

Ok. Here goes. But south African history isn't light. I found the trilogy of Alastair sparks The mind of south Africa. Tomorrow is another country. And beyond the miracle Good writing style Also long walk to freedom Nelson mandela autobiography. A traitors heart rian malan is excellent.

I would suggest also "Long walk to freedom", the autobiography of Nelson Mandela.

Thx for all the suggestions.

Dear all

Can I get a tip from everyone for a weekend trip in South Africa.

I will be in Johannesburg for 10 days with one weekend in between for work.

My colleagues are now suggesting that we should fly to Cape Town on Friday night and return on Sunday night. We could stay in Westin HOtel.

I was thinking of staying Johannesburg to visit the Apartheid Museum and Pilanesberg. In Johannesburg, I am booked in Montecasino.

What would you guys suggest?

Dear all

Can I get a tip from everyone for a weekend trip in South Africa.

I will be in Johannesburg for 10 days with one weekend in between for work.

My colleagues are now suggesting that we should fly to Cape Town on Friday night and return on Sunday night. We could stay in Westin HOtel.

I was thinking of staying Johannesburg to visit the Apartheid Museum and Pilanesberg. In Johannesburg, I am booked in Montecasino.

What would you guys suggest?

I personally wouldn´t stay in Johannesburg.

I have been to both Pilanesberg and Cape Town and can highly recommend both. Both are about 2h-2.5h away from JNB, Pilanesberg can best be reached by car and CPT obviously by plane.

I personally wouldn´t stay in Johannesburg.

I have been to both Pilanesberg and Cape Town and can highly recommend both. Both are about 2h-2.5h away from JNB, Pilanesberg can best be reached by car and CPT obviously by plane.

Is money an issue -- like do you have to pay for your air tickets within South Africa? It would seem that Cape Town would be a good choice. Another "crazy" alternative would be to fly to one of the airports next to Kruger to see the animals for the weekend. Fares can be ridiculously expensive (most people drive -- but you don't have the time for that), but they're "free" if you have a modest number of Avios points (9000 roundtrip). You'd then need a car, or go to one of the expensive private lodges.

If you don't want the hassle of flying, there are sights near J'burg. I've never been to the Cradle of Humankind, but it is considered a "must-see" attraction. And, of course, as you say, you could go to the Apartheid Museum if you didn't want to leave town.

Is money an issue -- like do you have to pay for your air tickets within South Africa? It would seem that Cape Town would be a good choice. Another "crazy" alternative would be to fly to one of the airports next to Kruger to see the animals for the weekend.


Cost is about the same IME. Private car transfers from JNB to one of the lodges in Pilanesberg start at about 2400ZAR r/t and there are some reasonably priced safaris. A return flight to CPT will also be at least 2000-2500ZAR.

If you want to fly to a safari lodge while not spending a fortune I´d recommend any of the lodges which are served by Federal Air (e.g. the cost for flying from Johannesburg to Madikwe was quite reasonable)

Dear all

Thank you the tips. I think I will go to Pilanesberg for a day and then return to my hotel to enjoy it a little. Perhaps on the following day find my way to the apartheid museum.

I have an interesting offer from Detour Africa (http://www.detourafrica.co.za) to Pilanesberg. Has anyone heard of them?

On the Trip Advisor's web-site (http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g312618-i9872-k4273076-Don_t_Use_Detour_Africa-Kruger_National_Park.html) there seems to be not too good reviews therefore the question.

Now, whilst I wouldn't fly to JNB just to see the city - there are some interesting things around - especially if you like to see urban renewal and new things happening - bit like finding new things opening in gritty areas of Dalston/Shoreditch in London etc. I spent most of last year in JNB and found some good things to do on the weekends:

The best tour to do of Soweto is a bicycle tour. The Soweto Backpackers B&B on Pooe Street, Orlando West, Soweto does them - search on the web for Soweto Bicycle tours. You can drive there (note - get the right Pooe Street in your sat nav) or get them to collect you from your hotel. Orlando West is safe enough to drive to during the day - take a morning tour.

On Saturday mornings the Neighbourgoods Market is on. This is the same Market that run at the Old Biscuit Mill in Woodstock, Cape Town. The market is a foodie one - and it is in a student area called Braamfontein, just before the Nelson Mandela Bridge. The address is 73 Juta Street. There are several new art galleries and cafes that have opened in this area - and there is parking on the street, and a multi-story - follow the chap with the market parking sign.

This area feels a bit like Shoreditch in London - it used to be dangerous, but is now an key area of renewal. The Kitchener Bar here is old and fun in the evenings. There are several new hotels opening here, and the Lamunu Hotel is cheap, stylish and good on Melle Street. An American woman opened a restaurant called Narida Trogans on De Korte Street a few yards away - nice but only open weekdays and nights.

If you have driven down - then you can visit the Johannesburg Art Gallery 5 minutes away at Joubert Park. There is secure parking - and it has some interesting smaller pieces of famous artists. However the most interesting thing is walking around the secure car park and see the decline of Hillbrow from a safe place. Do not walk here from the market - only drive.

On the weekends, there is another market called Arts on Main in the Maboneng District - it is actually on 264 Fox Street. Search online for this. It is quite good - Sunday is best as there is a food market (marketonmain.co.za)
also. There is a rather oddly office shaped hotel beside it called the 12 decades hotel. There is a rooftop bar that holds a party most Sunday days called Party on the Roof. It is very good, dance music playing as you look out onto the urban expanse of JNB - a place where blacks and whites mix with quite a big black gay crowd dressed to the nines. Much more interesting than the sterile bars of Sandton!

Melville and Parkhurst (around 4th Avenue) are also worth a look - check the guidebooks. Also the 44 Stanley Market - a collection of shops in old courtyard near Melville is worth a look.

A website that I found useful is www.todoinjoburg.co.za - it is a blog of various photographers suggesting to do things in the city centre. Some great suggestions - there is one about an Ethiopean community tour round JNB City Centre if you can find the details.

Anyhow, I hope this is useful - when I first visited, I was told not to go outside of Sandton. Once I drove to Soweto and round the centre after trawling the web, I realised there were interesting things to see. Sandton is a ghastly anonymous area - all that is there is a huge shopping mall and some overpriced restaurants and bars - you might as well be in the USA or Europe.

PM me if you want more City Centre info!

Something I found fascinating on my last visit is the constitutional court complex, built into part of what was a ghastly apartheid and pre-apartheid prison complex. Gandhi was one of the inmates at a time.

I though it much more moving than the apartheid museum, which was sort of glitzy and newly-built in the middle of nowhere.

Ir's sort of on the edge of Hillbrow, by the Wits university campus

I would also add lilliesleaf farm in rivonia. It was used by the ANC in the 60s and the raid here led to the treason trials. The museum and high tech exhibits have been built around the original buildings so you have a feel for what went on. It takes a few hours to take it all in.

We also were able to visit brenthurst gardens which is the Oppenheimer property but allows visitors into the beautiful gardens which are narrated by one of the staff and includes tea and biscuits.

I felt the same about sandton. Locals wanted to show us the casino and the malls. I don't want to visit either at home and certainly not on vacation.

Nice list, bariummeal! Your write-up reminded me that the Financial Times How To Spend It (of all places) covered some similar ground (http://howtospendit.ft.com/destinations/6800-a-long-weekend-in-johannesburg) last year.

ened a restaurant called Narida Trogans on De Korte StreetThe name is actually Narina Trogon (named after the bird), in case anybody wants to google the place.

Johan

My Traitor's Heart is very good; raw and honest.

A Traitor's Heart was real moving. Could not put it down and read it in two days Same here when I finally got around to reading it the other day. How I managed to overlook that book before I do not know. An excellent read, thanks for the tip.

Johan

Johan

So glad I could reciprocate for all your fantastic suggestions before our visit. As to be expected we are planning for the return to Africa. You get hooked.

A couple of other suggestions. Peter Godwin a trilogy of mukiwa , when a crocodile eats the sun, and fear which follows his experiences growing up in Zimbabwe and army service, his parents travails to stay in Zimbabwe, and his return after the 2008 elections. I read them in the reverse order so it was kind of a back to the future thing but the stories are surely best enjoyed in sequence and the entertaining and poignant Douglas Rogers the last resort. Story of a backpackers hotel turned. Well you will have to read it to find out.

The thing that struck me the most about My Traitor's Heart is that, after you read it, you're amazed that South Africa did not spiral into the abyss like, say, Zimbabwe.

The other day, I came across Malan's interesting update to the Alcock story that forms the end of the book.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jun/24/southafrica.features

The thing that struck me the most about My Traitor's Heart is that, after you read it, you're amazed that South Africa did not spiral into the abyss like, say, Zimbabwe.

The other day, I came across Malan's interesting update to the Alcock story that forms the end of the book.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jun/24/southafrica.features

Agreed about the difference between south Africa and Zimbabwe. Mandela seems to be the difference in the tone of civility and humanity he set for the country and that he seemed to be universally admired. He also stepped out of politics quickly unlike Mugabe and while there are certainly issues now with government it's clearly not Zimbabwe. There also is a more diverse business base in south Africa than the agriculture that the white minority worked in zim

Thanks for the update on the alcocks.