Amtrak Guest Rewards - Keystones and PHL

Just a thread to vent some frustration at Amtrak and the Keystone in Philly.

Why must they predominantly keep the Keystone on track 9? Is it due to some specific operational reason?

I know they periodically put it on 7 (and have been doing so for the morning departures for the last 1-2 weeks), but it gets frustrating on the evening routes (especially to NYC).

As a S+, having elevator access to the tracks from the CA is great, but track 9 has no elevator. This either means getting to track 9 before they announce the track (but other folks have been starting to do this now too, so you've gotta get there 20+ minutes in advance), or else you need to wait through the ridiculously long line, which means that seating is going to be terrible by the time you get down there.

Personal Suggestion: I'd like for Amtrak to either have this on a elevator-accessible track from the CA, or else have some sort of priority boarding line for the S+ pax to skip the regular line. It doesn't seem like it would be terribly difficult to have a UA Red Carpet style boarding, does it?

Sorry for the rant, it's just been bothering me for several weeks now, so it seems like a lot of frustration has built up. Obviously, this is just my own opinion, so feel free to rip it apart if you'd like! :p

Fair points.

I would assume that in part it's because the NYC-bound departures are basically supplemental to the NER and Acela departures. Amtrak's rationale would be that if you want the CA boarding, you could simply take a NER or Acela.

OTOH, the HAR-bound departures are short-haul commuters for whom a "good seat" matters less. (And who knows, there may be A LOT of S+ passengers on the HAR-bound departures given the high number of frequent riders...so the red carpet treatment may not get you all that much of a better seat. Don't know that for sure, though.)

I would assume that in part it's because the NYC-bound departures are basically supplemental to the NER and Acela departures. Amtrak's rationale would be that if you want the CA boarding, you could simply take a NER or Acela.

You're probably right... although my rationale for taking the Keystone up north is because it's usually a ton cheaper. That being said, if I want to save money, I understand that I'm probably going to have to lose some benefits. Fair enough.

OTOH, the HAR-bound departures are short-haul commuters for whom a "good seat" matters less. (And who knows, there may be A LOT of S+ passengers on the HAR-bound departures given the high number of frequent riders...so the red carpet treatment may not get you all that much of a better seat. Don't know that for sure, though.)

The Keystones going out west certainly should have a lot of Status pax (me being one of them), so I can't complain too much about that one. Then again, the ones going that way usually don't have close to as many pax as the ones going north. Essentially, if they could just change the track/boarding procedure for 652 and the other evening ones going up, I'd be thrilled. How likely is that? Not very. :(

Either way, I guess I don't have much grounds for complaining. But it'd still be nice if they extended the benefit...

Semi-hijacking my own thread now, but back to the discussions on Keystones:

1) With unreserved trains, you can earn points regardless of the direction stated on boarding pass, correct?

AND

2) With unreserved trains, you can earn points regardless of future-dated tickets, correct?

Why must they predominantly keep the Keystone on track 9? Is it due to some specific operational reason?

Yes, it's an operational thing. A Keystone coming from NY is best crossed over to the highest numbered tracks as it arrives. This is due to the fact that the Keystone's reverse direction and head back out essentially heading back to NY.

Except that almost immediately the Keystones turn west towards Harrisburg. Now coming from the east, or NY, there are essentially 4 tracks that branch out to service the 11 tracks on the lower level of the station. The two easternmost tracks are typically reserved for trains running to NY, while the two tracks to the west are used by trains coming from NY.

Now of the two inbound tracks, the westernmost track provides the only link to the tracks to Harrisburg. Now if Amtrak parks the Keystone on tracks 9, 10, or 11, they can run straight out to the switch to the Keystone connection. Doing this of course however shuts down all inbound service on that westernmost track. That's acceptable, as there isn't that much inbound traffic.

However, if they put the Keystone on track 7, then when they reverse direction and head east temporarily to reach the switch to the Keystone line, they would have to shut down both inbound tracks and that is a problem, especially during busier periods.


As a S+, having elevator access to the tracks from the CA is great, but track 9 has no elevator. This either means getting to track 9 before they announce the track (but other folks have been starting to do this now too, so you've gotta get there 20+ minutes in advance), or else you need to wait through the ridiculously long line, which means that seating is going to be terrible by the time you get down there.

Personal Suggestion: I'd like for Amtrak to either have this on a elevator-accessible track from the CA, or else have some sort of priority boarding line for the S+ pax to skip the regular line. It doesn't seem like it would be terribly difficult to have a UA Red Carpet style boarding, does it?

Sorry for the rant, it's just been bothering me for several weeks now, so it seems like a lot of frustration has built up. Obviously, this is just my own opinion, so feel free to rip it apart if you'd like! :p

It's actually not that hard of a thing to do, but for some reason those in charge of Philly seem determined not to do anything special. I was once in the lounge while they were doing work on the platform for tracks 3 & 4. So they were pulling all northbound trains in on track 2. This actually happened for several weekends in a row. That track isn't accessible from the CA either.

The agent in the CA actually apologized to me that they were making no special provisions for me, a First Class passenger on an Acela, not to mention a Select Plus member. I had to take the elevator down to the main level and go stand in the line. She told me that they, meaning the lounge agents, had complained to management to make some sort of provision for us and they were rebuffed.

Semi-hijacking my own thread now, but back to the discussions on Keystones:

1) With unreserved trains, you can earn points regardless of the direction stated on boarding pass, correct?

AND

2) With unreserved trains, you can earn points regardless of future-dated tickets, correct?

Yes & yes.

What you cannot do however is hand the conductor two or more tickets for the same train, as only the first one will post.

@AlanB - thanks for taking the time to explain everything with the Keystones and the AGR program link. Much appreciated, and much clearer now!

Yes, it's an operational thing. A Keystone coming from NY is best crossed over to the highest numbered tracks as it arrives. This is due to the fact that the Keystone's reverse direction and head back out essentially heading back to NY.

Except that almost immediately the Keystones turn west towards Harrisburg. Now coming from the east, or NY, there are essentially 4 tracks that branch out to service the 11 tracks on the lower level of the station. The two easternmost tracks are typically reserved for trains running to NY, while the two tracks to the west are used by trains coming from NY.

Now of the two inbound tracks, the westernmost track provides the only link to the tracks to Harrisburg. Now if Amtrak parks the Keystone on tracks 9, 10, or 11, they can run straight out to the switch to the Keystone connection. Doing this of course however shuts down all inbound service on that westernmost track. That's acceptable, as there isn't that much inbound traffic.

However, if they put the Keystone on track 7, then when they reverse direction and head east temporarily to reach the switch to the Keystone line, they would have to shut down both inbound tracks and that is a problem, especially during busier periods.



It's actually not that hard of a thing to do, but for some reason those in charge of Philly seem determined not to do anything special. I was once in the lounge while they were doing work on the platform for tracks 3 & 4. So they were pulling all northbound trains in on track 2. This actually happened for several weekends in a row. That track isn't accessible from the CA either.

The agent in the CA actually apologized to me that they were making no special provisions for me, a First Class passenger on an Acela, not to mention a Select Plus member. I had to take the elevator down to the main level and go stand in the line. She told me that they, meaning the lounge agents, had complained to management to make some sort of provision for us and they were rebuffed.
All the station tracks at PHL (tracks 1 to 10, there is no passenger track 11) can directly access the Harrisburg line without any reversing moves. The track and crossover network north of the station permits that flexibility.

The primary reason to segregate Keystones to the west-side tracks 9-10 is to minimize the potential disruption of through NEC trains which would be caused by the Keystones crossing all the New York tracks to get to the Harrisburg line. Having said that, I have boarded Keystones from tracks other than 9 or 10, including once this week.

All the station tracks at PHL (tracks 1 to 10, there is no passenger track 11) can directly access the Harrisburg line without any reversing moves. The track and crossover network north of the station permits that flexibility.

You can't take a Keystone from NY that just arrived into Philly to Harrisburg without reversing the train on the platform. This is why they use cab cars on this train, so that they don't have to move the engine. If the train moves forward after making its stop, then its on its way to Wilmington.

It must reverse to head back to the connection to the Keystone line.

PS. There is a track 11 on my diagram, although it does not have a platform. Maybe it has since been removed, but I have to believe that it existed at one time.

You can't take a Keystone from NY that just arrived into Philly to Harrisburg without reversing the train on the platform. This is why they use cab cars on this train, so that they don't have to move the engine. If the train moves forward after making its stop, then its on its way to Wilmington.

It must reverse to head back to the connection to the Keystone line.

PS. There is a track 11 on my diagram, although it does not have a platform. Maybe it has since been removed, but I have to believe that it existed at one time.
Ah, I misunderstood what you were saying since you referred to the Keystone heading "east". Amtrak only runs railroad north and south out of PHL. At Zoo, the route heading to New York becomes railroad east, and the line heading to Harrisburg is railroad west. I pictured your description as has having a Keystone on Tracks 1 to 6 heading "east" toward NY from Zoo, then reversing through the Pittsburgh Subway to Harrisburg.

Ah, I misunderstood what you were saying since you referred to the Keystone heading "east". Amtrak only runs railroad north and south out of PHL. At Zoo, the route heading to New York becomes railroad east, and the line heading to Harrisburg is railroad west. I pictured your description as has having a Keystone on Tracks 1 to 6 heading "east" toward NY from Zoo, then reversing through the Pittsburgh Subway to Harrisburg.

For those interested (and not that familiar with the railroad geography in Philadelphia) -- Zoo is named for an interlocking tower and there's a bit of a pun here between term "zoo" and a complicated set of trackage.

For details -- see

http://www.railfanguides.us/pa/phl/zoo/index.htm#Maps

Bob H

I should know the answer for this, but I'm seemingly drawing a blank (maybe it's the caffeine...?)

My friend bought a multi-station ticket last Wednesday for travel on the (unreserved) Keystone. Some family things came up and he was unable to make the trip. That being said, he forgot to cancel the reservation, although he never printed the boarding cards either. He texted me a short while ago saying that the QT machine doesn't show that reservation (presumably because it was in the past). Will Amtrak automatically refund him the price since he never took the trip and didn't print the bp, or does he need to get in touch with them about that?

He'll need to call up Amtrak and have an agent process a refund. It won't happen automatically.

He'll need to call up Amtrak and have an agent process a refund. It won't happen automatically.

Thanks Alan!

God knows why I'm all scatter-brained today and can't remember even the most basic stuff! :(

@AlanB (or anyone else knowledgable about PHL)

I ended up missing Keystone 605 this morning so I ended up waiting for 607. Oddly enough, they put 607 on track 3, directly adjacent to a NER going to NYP on 4.

This obvious ended up creating a nice situation downstairs, being that the NER pax didn't have a train on the platform, and they ended up having to make repeated announcements on both trains in order to make sure that pax were on the right train.

To top it all off, the CA sent a few NER pax down to the platform late, causing them to miss the train.

Based on what you had explained earlier, any idea why a Keystone would be on 3? It was empty at time of boarding (i.e. most likely didn't come from NYP)...

Based on what you had explained earlier, any idea why a Keystone would be on 3? It was empty at time of boarding (i.e. most likely didn't come from NYP)...

607 does originate in PHL according to the timetable. Can't venture a guess at your question, though.

Just tried and failed to get a seat on 42 ex-PAO going to PHL this afternoon. :(

I know that it wouldn't be per protocol, but does anyone have experience of asking a conductor if they can just give an unreserved ticket and sit in the cafe car or stand for the journey? (I should note that 42 is reserved)

Based on what you had explained earlier, any idea why a Keystone would be on 3? It was empty at time of boarding (i.e. most likely didn't come from NYP)...

No real idea. Could have been a switch malfunction that was causing an issue, could have been a train lying down, maybe just too much traffic due to late running trains.

Just no real way to know unless someone heard a dispatcher talking about it.

No real idea. Could have been a switch malfunction that was causing an issue, could have been a train lying down, maybe just too much traffic due to late running trains.

Just no real way to know unless someone heard a dispatcher talking about it.

Well, either way I'm glad I didn't know about it early on. Otherwise I might've been part of the CA group that was late in coming down!

Thanks for the reply with the possibilities, though!

Incidentally, 605 was on 1 this morning. I ended up asking the conductors if they knew why, and the reply was a) "Amtrak does what it wants..." and b) track maintenance. So I guess that's our answer!