Qantas Frequent Flyer - B787 delivery schedule to QF/JQ

Any further info on this -- rather important to QF in view of the A380 delivery deferal. In the past QF has just said "mid-2013" for the 1st delivery, and 50 "firm" orders but not broken down between -9 and -8 (JQ and QF presumably). JQ has said that ATH and FCO service would commence upon receiving 787s but that doesn't look too plausible now in view of economic conditions in Greece and Italy.

Aren't the first batch of QF group 787s bound for JQ in order to swap the A330s back to QF?

I don't think JQ would start European destinations given the current economic climate in Europe.

I am thinking of the MEL-SIN-PVG route

Anyway, why would QF want to take the A330 back?

Anyway, why would QF want to take the A330 back?

To retire some 767's.

The newest A330s already have the J cabin setup virtually identical to QF's dom J, with the exception of the colour scheme. I would imagine these planes can be fed back into the mainline very quickly.

I can't see QF taking any of the 787s until JQ has a sizable fleet, and perhaps started a few new routes. Not that I would be too concerned, as the A330s fit into most of the current mission profiles quite well (with the exception of that idiot who thought it was a good idea to send them to LAX via AKL before the route was eventually cut).

Anyway, why would QF want to take the A330 back?Retire the 767s.
The oldest 767s in the Qantas Group are VH-OGG and VH-OGH, delivered in December 1990, with the rest being built/delivered during the early 90s. Most are 20 years old, the newest is 11.

The oldest A330, VH-EBA, is 9 years old.
They send the 15 788s to JQ to replace the JQ 330s which go back to QF to replace the 767s. New delivery A330s replace the rest of the 767s.
When the 789s and remaining A380s arrive, they'll replace the oldest A330s and newest 747s (of course by then, they'll have to start thinking about what is going to replace the first few 380s)

QF currently has 24 767s, most of which are 18-20 years old.
There are 10 A330-300 with QF and 19 -200s (8 QF, 11 JQ) with another 5 on order (3 QF, 2 JQ).

Given many of the 767s are on DOM what will be different for the 330s this time around. Weren't they an abject failure between SYD-MEL&BNE when they first acquired them.

Then they bought the 767 off medium and long haul to place the A330 on those routes.

In dont understand where the compensation money from Boeing went for the 787 delays. NZ, BA and JL all used this money to refurbish their 763 aircraft that they needed to hang onto. QF seemed to decide the best thing was to buy 332 aircraft for JQ. So what we have is a now competitive domestic market and very shabby interiors on the 763 fleet while DJ fly around some very smart looking 737. QF are now in a very bad place, want to conserve cash but stuck with old product!

Given many of the 767s are on DOM what will be different for the 330s this time around. Weren't they an abject failure between SYD-MEL&BNE when they first acquired them. I believe the problem was with the quick turnaround time required on these sectors, and mainly due to refuelling. I believe this has been rectified.

Dave

QF does seem to have backed into the worst possible fleet plan. No 777s (which their competition is beating them with), poor use of 787s when they arrive (though I suppose this is easily remedied). The 738s are saving the domestic fleet (I go out of my way to get 738 SYD-MEL, so much nicer than the 763s). Their future fleet orders are quite good, but the current fleet is causing much of the grief in competitiveness. Very ironic as QF was noted in past decades for having great fleet planning. Personally I think they should follow LH's lead and buy some 747-8i's :)

In dont understand where the compensation money from Boeing went for the 787 delays. NZ, BA and JL all used this money to refurbish their 763 aircraft that they needed to hang onto. QF seemed to decide the best thing was to buy 332 aircraft for JQ.The A330s were compensation from Airbus for the A380 delays. If QF got anything from Boeing for the 787 delays, I would have thought it was discounted/extra 738s.

The A330s were compensation from Airbus for the A380 delays. If QF got anything from Boeing for the 787 delays, I would have thought it was discounted/extra 738s. The initial A330's were an incentive for QF to order the A380, and were ordered at the same time the A380's were ordered. Basically, they were (or close to) free.

QF have since become rather enamoured with the A330, so I doubt they needed an incentive to get more, although there is every possibility that an incentive might have been offered.

Dave

QF does seem to have backed into the worst possible fleet plan. No 777s (which their competition is beating them with), poor use of 787s when they arrive (though I suppose this is easily remedied). The 738s are saving the domestic fleet (I go out of my way to get 738 SYD-MEL, so much nicer than the 763s). Their future fleet orders are quite good, but the current fleet is causing much of the grief in competitiveness. Very ironic as QF was noted in past decades for having great fleet planning. Personally I think they should follow LH's lead and buy some 747-8i's :)
I agree with most of this post, except I really do not like the 777 (from a pax point of view;)) and for no practical reason other than my appreciation of the fondiness for the shape the 747-8i I love your suggestion:D.
Oh good to see you back posting number_6:)

The initial A330's were an incentive for QF to order the A380, and were ordered at the same time the A380's were ordered. Basically, they were (or close to) free.

QF have since become rather enamoured with the A330, so I doubt they needed an incentive to get more, although there is every possibility that an incentive might have been offered.

Dave
I thought the initial A330 ordered at the same time as the A380 was to give QF some experience operating widebody Airbus, of course I am sure there was a nice incentive for them. Interesting that QF chose the GE engines for them;).
Original issues for the A330 on domestic was the turnarounds including refuelling. As they appear on the schedule (SYD-MEL), not just International repositioning or PER routes, it does appear they now are profficient in operating them domestically.

I agree with most of this post, except I really do not like the 777 (from a pax point of view;)) and for no practical reason other than my appreciation of the fondiness for the shape the 747-8i I love your suggestion:D.
Oh good to see you back posting number_6:)
.
The first piece of equipment in my carry on kit for a 777 flight is earplugs. :rolleyes:

Its interesting that LH is buying 20 748s and using them to release their new full flat C class bed. This will put pressure on their competitors and blow QF out of the water if they use them on FRA-SIN instead of their 380.

And welcome back number_6

The first piece of equipment in my carry on kit for a 777 flight is earplugs. :rolleyes: I've never had any sort of problems while on a 777.

I agree the 777 particularly the 200 is a pretty noisy aircraft.

I fully expect QF will ultimately order the A350-XWB or 777-NG when one of them is firmed up to replace the last of the 747s when they ultimately retire - you can't run a meaninful intl operation on 787/380s alone.

There is no point ordering the 777-200/300 now, it is towards the end of its life and doesnt have cockpit commonality with the 787.

I fully expect QF will ultimately order the A350-XWB or 777-NG when one of them is firmed up to replace the last of the 747s when they ultimately retire - you can't run a meaninful intl operation on 787/380s alone.

Who says QF are actually interested in running a " meaningful international operation" :p They could easily run LHR, LAX and Asian destinations with a fleet entirely consisting of 787s and 380s. (and keep an old 767 just for HNL ;) ) Really only leaves JNB & SCL as question marks.

...There is no point ordering the 777-200/300 now, it is towards the end of its life and doesnt have cockpit commonality with the 787.Some end of life for the 777; Boeing is still testing the new wingtip design for 777 which is enough to make it competitive with the A350 and avoids the cost/risk of an entirely new wing. It's the recently patented "shark-mouth" winglets that split (up/down) and supposedly improve fuel efficiency by 3% (vs. 5% for a new wing). Given the huge order backlog for 777s, the reason QF isn't ordering is lack of delivery slots and not that the aircraft is obsolete (certainly not in the 300ER variant which went into service about 5 years ago).

Any further info on this -- rather important to QF in view of the A380 delivery deferal. In the past QF has just said "mid-2013" for the 1st delivery, and 50 "firm" orders but not broken down between -9 and -8 (JQ and QF presumably).

Last we heard was pretty much what you'd got
* first 787s for Jetstar (787-8s) arriving mid-2013
* first 787-9s arriving "2015-2016"
* but the breakdown of who gets those -9s has yet to be determined

Maybe they're for the HKG based joint venture with China Eastern which splits into 2, the LCC JQ HKG part and the new Q888 premium airline flying all B787s. After all who really believes the existing JQ HKG released plan (representing just 1% of QF capital investment)? It's clearly stealth packaging for the real initiative :) That expensive F/J lounge rebuild in HKG wasn't for JQ HKG, methinks. Though maybe QF wants to sell a million Qantas Club memberships in China.

That would also explain where the other 15 B787s are (Boeing is still reporting 65 orders by QF while QF says 50).