China - iPhones from abroad, yes we want them!

Yo, all.

I am starting this thread because another FTer recently offered to bring stuff from the US that is hard to obtain in China. At the time, I had a friend who was hot to get her hands on an iPhone 4s (white, if you care). Subsequently, I did some research on Amazon/Google, and determined that those things couldn't possibly fetch more than the $600+ they sell for in the US (my Nokias that I chew through every two months only cost $100), so I didn't follow up, but my friend actually cried because she claims "$600 or even $650" is really cheap.

While I'm not in position to judge, I'd like to help fulfill their desires (I hate it when my friends cry). BTW, I am no sugar daddy (I think I'm still too young to be one anyway); these kids are using their own money.

As such, I'd like to develop a plan to hook up young Chinese people with Apple products. Whenever new releases come out, there is substantial profit potential. And, during normal times, you're simply doing a good deed. You have no idea how much these people care about this stuff!

I'd been asked to do this before and always ran into the problem of unlocking the phone. I'm no expert, but my friends have always said it's impossible to get it unlocked stateside, although I'm sure its possible in China.

Jailbreaking and unlocking new OS might take a little time.
Warranty work must be done in country of purchase.

Apple should use this photo to
market iphones in china
Gives new meaning to the term jailbreaking.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/gty_chen_guangcheng_on_phone_lpl_120503_wg.jpg

Apple sells the unlocked version now so no more jailbreaking needed.


I'd been asked to do this before and always ran into the problem of unlocking the phone. I'm no expert, but my friends have always said it's impossible to get it unlocked stateside, although I'm sure its possible in China.

You would be amazed how profitable this is. I've been importing grey market Apple products (almost exclusively iPhones and iPads) into China for several years now, and it has proven to be quite a lucrative side project.

At launch, an unlocked 16GB iPhone 4S retailed for 649 CAD (~4100 RMB) and could be sold in China for around 6000. Sensing an opportunity, I managed to collect up 20 or so phones from the various Apple stores in and around Toronto, stuffed them into a carry-on, and brought them back with me... made a cool 30,000 RMB profit after taxes. ^ Interestingly, there seems to be little demand for the 32GB or 64GB models.

At the moment, though, the spread in prices (and thus profit opportunity) has unfortunately all but vanished: these things are selling for right around 4200 on Taobao. Nevertheless, as moondog points out, they're still a hot status symbol, and as such I always keep a few around for use as gifts or favours to friends -- for some reason that, it never ceases to impress.

On this note, I'd be happy to pick up one or two extras the next time I'm back in North America and bring them over at cost (retail + tax) for anyone here who is interested. :)

Bringing back 1 or 2 through Customs, sure. But stuffing 20? Aren't you running a risk when you enter China?

Bringing back 1 or 2 through Customs, sure. But stuffing 20? Aren't you running a risk when you enter China?

No, because I declare them. 10% duty. Cuts into the profit margins a bit, but not enough to turn this into a losing proposition. Often, even after having declared various things (not just iPhones), I'm just waved through anyway as whoever is there evidently didn't want to deal with it.

Unlike the "professional" iPhone smugglers, I'm not that concerned about paying the 10% since I'm just doing this as a side business. Also, in general, the Chinese customs authorities don't pay too much attention to non-sketchy-looking foreigners arriving via air; with iPhones in particular, the focus in enforcement is directed almost entirely at Chinese nationals crossing the HK/Shenzhen border.

IME and observations: The 1 Apple product seems to be strictly enforce at HK/Macau entries by foot for Chinese looking nationals and HK Chinese. Less so if you are entering by private dual-plated vehicles and even less from non HK origin flights into PRC airports.

I have an apple brokers who trade me RMB's for whatever the latest stuff is that I bring in to BJ SH and GZ.

So long no one sells their kidneys to buy, I am most willing to help.

;)

I have never been stopped by Chinese customs to have my bags checked when I flew in from Singapore.

At launch, an unlocked 16GB iPhone 4S retailed for 649 CAD (~4100 RMB) and could be sold in China for around 6000.

Now you tell me while I'm at the Asiana lounge at ICN waiting for my flight to PVG :rolleyes:

At the moment, though, the spread in prices (and thus profit opportunity) has unfortunately all but vanished

Oh :(

EmailKid

Unlike the "professional" iPhone smugglers, .

That Zipline (http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2011/08/chineseipadzpiwire.jpg) was ingenious.

Need a long zipline to bring those piles of cash they have back to US.:p

That Zipline (http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2011/08/chineseipadzpiwire.jpg) was ingenious.

Need a long zipline to bring those piles of cash they have back to US.:p

I always bring an I Phone, I pad, and a laptop, sometimes even a Rolex Watch, American good are very high priced in China,

Wife is Chinese, so it's Christmas time when we go over..

You would be amazed how profitable this is. I've been importing grey market Apple products (almost exclusively iPhones and iPads) into China for several years now, and it has proven to be quite a lucrative side project.

At launch, an unlocked 16GB iPhone 4S retailed for 649 CAD (~4100 RMB) and could be sold in China for around 6000. Sensing an opportunity, I managed to collect up 20 or so phones from the various Apple stores in and around Toronto, stuffed them into a carry-on, and brought them back with me... made a cool 30,000 RMB profit after taxes. ^ Interestingly, there seems to be little demand for the 32GB or 64GB models.

But it's in RMB, how do you convert that much to hard currency?

At the moment, though, the spread in prices (and thus profit opportunity) has unfortunately all but vanished: these things are selling for right around 4200 on Taobao. Nevertheless, as moondog points out, they're still a hot status symbol, and as such I always keep a few around for use as gifts or favours to friends -- for some reason that, it never ceases to impress.

Yeah, last I looked it wasn't worth it.

IME and observations: The 1 Apple product seems to be strictly enforce at HK/Macau entries by foot for Chinese looking nationals and HK Chinese. Less so if you are entering by private dual-plated vehicles and even less from non HK origin flights into PRC airports.

I have an apple brokers who trade me RMB's for whatever the latest stuff is that I bring in to BJ SH and GZ.

I suspect they realize it's very unlikely to be economic to smuggle when you have to pay hefty air tickets. There would no doubt be people who bring them when they're coming anyway but I doubt it adds up to enough to be a problem.

I always bring an I Phone, I pad, and a laptop, sometimes even a Rolex Watch, American good are very high priced in China,

Wife is Chinese, so it's Christmas time when we go over..

Brrrr!! We go over when the temperature is more reasonable. By avoiding holiday times it also cuts down on the gift obligations.

But it's in RMB, how do you convert that much to hard currency?

I use my RMB-denominated UnionPay card for purchases and cash withdrawals overseas. This falls completely outside the limits/controls on RMB conversion, and the foreign transaction fees charged by ICBC are quite low (~1.5% spread), at least on the "VIP" accounts (which, at least at ICBC, just means you have at least 200,000 RMB as your "total relationship balance").

Jailbreaking and unlocking new OS might take a little time.
Warranty work must be done in country of purchase.

Jailbreaking is easy in China, find the right person...

At launch, an unlocked 16GB iPhone 4S retailed for 649 CAD (~4100 RMB) and could be sold in China for around 6000. Sensing an opportunity, I managed to collect up 20 or so phones from the various Apple stores in and around Toronto, ..

You are a diplomat and didn't have to pay 13% Canadian HST?

But it's in RMB, how do you convert that much to hard currency? ...

I use my RMB-denominated UnionPay card for purchases and cash withdrawals overseas. This falls completely outside the limits/controls on RMB conversion, and the foreign transaction fees charged by ICBC are quite low (~1.5% spread), at least on the "VIP" accounts (which, at least at ICBC, just means you have at least 200,000 RMB as your "total relationship balance").

I use it for PRC spending money as well as purchases which I can sell for a profit back home.

Jailbreaking is easy in China, find the right person...

"I See" said the blind man.

You are a diplomat and didn't have to pay 13% Canadian HST?

Not sure where you got the idea that I was a diplomat; I'm definitely not. I indeed pay HST. This brings the total cost of the phones to 733 CAD, or ~4,600 RMB. Hence my estimate of profit on 20 phones at around 30,000 RMB assuming a sale price of somewhere around 6,000.

Obviously, the people smuggling phones from HK will be making a bigger profit, but this doesn't particularly bother me. As I said, this is just a side venture I do because I'm making the trip anyway, not because I'm trying to get into the iPhone smuggling business.

I use it for PRC spending money as well as purchases which I can sell for a profit back home.

What's worth bringing the other way??

What's worth bringing the other way??

Mail order brides?

Mail order brides?

I'm already married to a Chinese, what would I need with a mail order bride?

I'm already married to a Chinese, what would I need with a mail order bride?

The post to which you replied was surely made in jest, but I'll offer you a serious answer. In spite of the fact that Wal Mart has done a great job selling products produced in China in the US for only a small premium of what it costs to procure them at local retail establishments, and company's like Macy's actually sell the same stuff at a loss in order to clear inventory that would otherwise go un-sold, there are still numerous things one can purchase in China that fetch significant premiums in western countries.

The most egregious example that comes to mind is the saffron I bought in Kashgar a few years back... less than 5% of the Safeway cost, and better quality. But, even if you stick to Beijing and Shanghai, things like pearls and silk scarves are absolute bargains; flight attendants from foreign airlines have created multi million dollar businesses around this stuff... some of which place ads right here on FT.

What's worth bringing the other way??

If you know what and where to look there are opportunities. ;)

Mail order brides?

Very very hard to ship, do you check them or carry on? :p

I'm already married to a Chines e, what would I need with a mail order bride?

Concubine?

The post to which you replied was surely made in jest, but I'll offer you a serious answer. In spite of the fact that Wal Mart has done a great job selling products produced in China in the US for only a small premium of what it costs to procure them at local retail establishments, and company's like Macy's actually sell the same stuff at a loss in order to clear inventory that would otherwise go un-sold, there are still numerous things one can purchase in China that fetch significant premiums in western countries.

The most egregious example that comes to mind is the saffron I bought in Kashgar a few years back... less than 5% of the Safeway cost, and better quality. But, even if you stick to Beijing and Shanghai, things like pearls and silk scarves are absolute bargains; flight attendants from foreign airlines have created multi million dollar businesses around this stuff... some of which place ads right here on FT.

^^^^^ that is a start. :D

Very very hard to ship, do you check them or carry on? :p


A Chinese guy from Dalian, I met a few years ago, was shipping them
over in sea freight containers to VC BC.

He got busted and spent 2.5 years in Fed Detention and deported.

I think he already wired a few million back to China before he got popped.

A Chinese guy from Dalian, I met a few years ago, was shipping them
over in sea freight containers to VC BC.

He got busted and spent 2.5 years in Fed Detention and deported.

I think he already wired a few million back to China before he got popped.

I remember the case. You nailed all the facts except one; no funds were wired back to CN, they are in CH.

I remember the case. You nailed all the facts except one; no funds were wired back to CN, they are in CH.

That makes much more sense.

FWIW

Was told by the Chinese..the money went to China.

and verified in the criminal complaint (http://www.justice.gov/usao/waw/press/2006/aug/pdf/Kangetal1.pdf) page 13

The post to which you replied was surely made in jest, but I'll offer you a serious answer.

Yeah, I knew it was in jest, I was just playing along.

The most egregious example that comes to mind is the saffron I bought in Kashgar a few years back... less than 5% of the Safeway cost, and better quality. But, even if you stick to Beijing and Shanghai, things like pearls and silk scarves are absolute bargains; flight attendants from foreign airlines have created multi million dollar businesses around this stuff... some of which place ads right here on FT.

Interesting. Silk is awfully light, also.

FWIW

Was told by the Chinese..the money went to China.

and verified in the criminal complaint (http://www.justice.gov/usao/waw/press/2006/aug/pdf/Kangetal1.pdf) page 13

That's the for American Public version. Anyone who knows how things work in PRC would offer a different opinion.

That's the for American Public version. Anyone who knows how things work in PRC would offer a different opinion.

Don't doubt that...seems like the numbers don't add up
by a wide margin.

That's the for American Public version. Anyone who knows how things work in PRC would offer a different opinion.

Yeah, Chinese criminals don't often wire money from other countries into the Chinese banking system.

Yeah, Chinese criminals don't often wire money from other countries into the Chinese banking system.


That's a good defense for WU to use for the grand jury subpoena
regarding millions sent to China from Monterey Park.:D

So what's the going rate for these iphones now in China? I might be tempted to smuggle them in every trip if its worth it.

So what's the going rate for these iphones now in China? I might be tempted to smuggle them in every trip if its worth it.

And how do you go about selling them anyway?

Depends on release date of iPhone 5


model 4S released in US 10-14-11
in China 1 -13-12

Assuming the iOS can be unlocked, expected release of model
#5 ~Sept-Oct...that gives a 3-4 month opportunity for grey
market sales.

The further away the PRC release date is for the product, the higher a premium you can get for them.

If you are thinking about buying 20/30 it would be a good idea to have your BJ-ducks lined up in PRC in terms of a broker/middleman to take them off your hands. Taking one or two for a side profit is great but to buy more newly release units and unloading them all at a profit requires a good network at both ends.

Cordyseps sinensis. Easy to bring, highly valuable. Seems like everybody in HK is spending $$$ on it. Hard part is to know if the you're getting is actually good quality, high value, ones.

Cordyseps sinensis. Easy to bring, highly valuable. Seems like everybody in HK is spending $$$ on it. Hard part is to know if the you're getting is actually good quality, high value, ones.

MIL asked me to get her some winter incest summer grass on my last trip. She even specified going to this specific place and ask for specific Mr XXX.
When she received it she was disappointed with them. There are relatives who accused me of substituting inferior goods.

I only deal with product that I know.

Didn't meet MilSpecs.:D

Didn't meet MilSpecs.:D

MY MIL-SPec is very very tough! :D

Okay, guys. My friend who prompted me to start this thread really, really wants an iPhone. So, if any of you are coming to Beijing or know someone who is coming to Beijing in the next few weeks, perhaps we can help her out. Please contact me by email.

Please contact me by email.

Check your email.

Check your email.

Many thanks! There is no real money to be made in this trade until the iPhone 5 is released (at that point, we should get organized). During the interim, we're pretty much just building up good will. It's all about karma... save a Chinese girl $100, and you'll be repaid in spades at some point in time.

Many thanks! There is no real money to be made in this trade until the iPhone 5 is released (at that point, we should get organized). During the interim, we're pretty much just building up good will. It's all about karma... save a Chinese girl $100, and you'll be repaid in spades at some point in time.

I think around 650usd. 4s16 model
I like galaxy note.

Many thanks! There is no real money to be made in this trade until the iPhone 5 is released (at that point, we should get organized). During the interim, we're pretty much just building up good will. It's all about karma... save a Chinese girl $100, and you'll be repaid in spades at some point in time.

^
" Better have favour owe to you than you owing favours" - my armature translation of Chinese proverb.