China - By train: Beijing to Hangzhou

Browsed through a few informative sites. Still have a few questions about travel by train from Beijing to Hangzhou. I've done Shanghai to Hangzhou, but not from Beijing.

1. Does G33 (and/or G1) go from Beijing to Hangzhou via Shanghai (ie stop in HQ; or change train in HQ)?
2. Possible to book ticket online with US credit card? If so, web site please?
3. Prefer fastest trains, are they booked up early? How far in advance should I buy ticket if I have to do it in person at South Station?

TIA.

1. Does G33 (and/or G1) go from Beijing to Hangzhou via Shanghai (ie stop in HQ; or change train in HQ)?

Stop in Shanghai Hongqiao, no change train.

2. Possible to book ticket online with US credit card? If so, web site please?

Not possible on the official 12306.cn. You need to check third party services.

3. Prefer fastest trains, are they booked up early? How far in advance should I buy ticket if I have to do it in person at South Station?

G33 is pretty nice. You can always watch how many tickets left on 12306.cn or more friendly http://yupiao.info/. yupiao.info is a proxy to 12306.cn with automatic CAPTCHA recognition, fill the "发到站" box with "北京" (Beijing) and "杭州" (Hangzhou), select the date of departure, and click "查询" button. On the result page, "软座" number is how many first class seats left, "硬座" number is how many second class seats left and "其他" column should have business class information.

Is there a reason you must purchase at South Station? If you will be staying in Beijing prior, it is probably easier to purchase at one of the numerous satellite offices all over the city, if you want to do it yourself rather than have hotel do it. www.cnvol.com has a Train Ticket Office Search function on it. Or hotel can direct you to closest one.

Outside of holiday periods, I would think that you could get a ticket on one of these two trains a couple of days in advance of your departure date, particularly if you're not fussy about taking either first or second class.

I would fly this route because:

1) You're looking at 7.5 hours -- door to door -- on the train v. ~5 on the plane
-in spite of the fact that all of us have wasted huge chunks of time sitting around Chinese airports or being held captive on planes, 2.5 hours is a pretty serious cushion

2) The price difference is negligible if you are somewhat flexible

Basically, at 4 hours, the train wins on BJ-NJ. At 5 hours, BJ-SH is a toss up. At 6 hours, the train loses to the plane on BJ-HZ. (Flying time is more or less the same in all 3 cases.)

Stop in Shanghai Hongqiao, no change train...

Nice to know this. Does this apply to trains G33 & G1? I am looking at early morning departure (around 8-ish).

G33 is pretty nice. You can always watch how many tickets left on 12306.cn or more friendly http://yupiao.info/. yupiao.info is a proxy to 12306.cn with automatic CAPTCHA recognition, fill the "发到站" box with "北京" (Beijing) and "杭州" (Hangzhou), select the date of departure, and click "查询" button. On the result page, "软座" number is how many first class seats left, "硬座" number is how many second class seats left and "其他" column should have business class information.

Well, I am currently learning Chinese (through self study and talking with friends).
Thanks for the link. Just a test run, I tried to copy/paste the Chinese characters onto "yupiao" site. This is what I get back: 05月09日至05月12日 g33次列车 北京 至 杭州 的剩余火车票额 :confused::confused:
I noted that the search engine allows up to +12 days from current date only.

Thanks.

Is there a reason you must purchase at South Station? If you will be staying in Beijing prior, it is probably easier to purchase at one of the numerous satellite offices all over the city, if you want to do it yourself rather than have hotel do it. www.cnvol.com has a Train Ticket Office Search function on it. Or hotel can direct you to closest one.

Outside of holiday periods, I would think that you could get a ticket on one of these two trains a couple of days in advance of your departure date, particularly if you're not fussy about taking either first or second class.

jiejie,
As alwlays, appreciate your local insight!
For new stations and those I have not visited (SOuth station being one; and if I have time), I usually want to go there and scott it out. For example, I do not want to go to Shanghai Railway Station to get ticket as the place is/was a zoo. I found things over at HQ station are a lot more orderly, including people.

I was not aware of satellite ticket offices, but will check it out.

I would fly this route because:

1) You're looking at 7.5 hours -- door to door -- on the train v. ~5 on the plane
-in spite of the fact that all of us have wasted huge chunks of time sitting around Chinese airports or being held captive on planes, 2.5 hours is a pretty serious cushion

2) The price difference is negligible if you are somewhat flexible

Basically, at 4 hours, the train wins on BJ-NJ. At 5 hours, BJ-SH is a toss up. At 6 hours, the train loses to the plane on BJ-HZ. (Flying time is more or less the same in all 3 cases.)

moondog,
Appreciate your cost/benefit analysis. You are absolutely right about the time duration and the negligible savings. I too would normally fly this route too.
I am pursuing some train experiences around the world. Just returned from a train trip in Central and Northern Europe. Real fun.
Thought its time to do some in China. Working on a personal pet project, btw.

I would fly this route because:

1) You're looking at 7.5 hours -- door to door -- on the train v. ~5 on the plane
-in spite of the fact that all of us have wasted huge chunks of time sitting around Chinese airports or being held captive on planes, 2.5 hours is a pretty serious cushion

2) The price difference is negligible if you are somewhat flexible

Basically, at 4 hours, the train wins on BJ-NJ. At 5 hours, BJ-SH is a toss up. At 6 hours, the train loses to the plane on BJ-HZ. (Flying time is more or less the same in all 3 cases.)

Frequencies differ. Note that while all Beijing-Shanghai trains without exception stop at Nanjing South (and the frequencies of planes Beijing-Lukou are less than those Beijing-Shanghai), only a few Beijing-Shanghai trains continue direct to Hangzhou.

Also, while express trains Beijing-Shanghai exist, none of them continue direct to Hangzhou. You might connect at Hongqiao from an express train to local high speed train - but that is a connection. The direct trains are slow, stopping trains between Beijing and Shanghai.

How much time is a connection worth for you?

I mean, given a choice between say 5 hours on one train, 1/2 hours connection, 1/2 hours second train, arriving in 6 hours, or a direct train but taking 6 1/2 hours, which would you prefer? Direct train means you can settle in your seat, put away your hand luggage and stay there save for toilet and restaurant visits at your leisure.

The Beijing-Hangzhou trains are important for being the longest high speed trains anywhere - 1487 km.

How long shall Longhua-Wuhan-Zhengzhou-Xian trains be this July?

If your plans are some time ahead, note that on unknown days of December 2012, Nanjing-Hangzhou and Hangzhou-Ningbo high speed railways shall open. What shall the service patterns be there?

You could fly to Hongqiao and then take the train for the last mile. Honestly I'd fly this route unless there was an overnight option.

moondog,
Appreciate your cost/benefit analysis. You are absolutely right about the time duration and the negligible savings. I too would normally fly this route too.
I am pursuing some train experiences around the world. Just returned from a train trip in Central and Northern Europe. Real fun.
Thought its time to do some in China. Working on a personal pet project, btw.

Actually, my personal choice on this route, especially if I wanted the experience and Chinese language practice (and save springing for a hotel night), would be the excellent express overnight train Z9, leaving Beijing Main Station at 19:15 and arriving Hangzhou station at 08:28. Only one intermediate stop in the morning so they roll very steady through the night, and normally very punctual. A soft sleeper lower berth will only set you back about RMB 540. Z's are still great trains even if they aren't HSR.

If your plans are some time ahead, note that on unknown days of December 2012, Nanjing-Hangzhou and Hangzhou-Ningbo high speed railways shall open. What shall the service patterns be there?

The Nanjing - Hangzhou line would, AFAIK, be routed through Suzhou?

Actually, my personal choice on this route, especially if I wanted the experience and Chinese language practice (and save springing for a hotel night), would be the excellent express overnight train Z9, leaving Beijing Main Station at 19:15 and arriving Hangzhou station at 08:28. Only one intermediate stop in the morning so they roll very steady through the night, and normally very punctual. A soft sleeper lower berth will only set you back about RMB 540. Z's are still great trains even if they aren't HSR.

+1

The Nanjing - Hangzhou line would, AFAIK, be routed through Suzhou?

Nope. The new line goes around the south side of Taihu, passes Yixing and Huzhou.

Nope. The new line goes around the south side of Taihu, passes Yixing and Huzhou.

South side of Taihu would be within Suzhou city limits. No stop there at a new or existing station?

South side of Taihu would be within Suzhou city limits. No stop there at a new or existing station?

Please take a look at a map and you'll understand. Suzhou is on the E shore of the lake, Yixing on the W shore and Huzhou on the S shore.

Please take a look at a map and you'll understand. Suzhou is on the E shore of the lake, Yixing on the W shore and Huzhou on the S shore.

The map thing is important to me. Like I mentioned above, NJ, SH, and HZ are all the same distance (in terms of flight time) from BJ. But, HZ is a loser unless you do the overnight thing.

Please take a look at a map and you'll understand. Suzhou is on the E shore of the lake, Yixing on the W shore and Huzhou on the S shore.

If the track runs along the west shore of Taihu and then turns south, then it's very clear. Just find it a bit odd that there is apparently no need to connect a conurbation of 13 million people (Suzhou, Kunshan, Taicang) directly to Hangzhou by HSR?

A lot of business and private connections between the two regions from my personal experience.

If the track runs along the west shore of Taihu and then turns south, then it's very clear. Just find it a bit odd that there is apparently no need to connect a conurbation of 13 million people (Suzhou, Kunshan, Taicang) directly to Hangzhou by HSR?

A lot of business and private connections between the two regions from my personal experience.

There are some G7xxx trains Hangzhou-Nanjing which reverse at Hongquao station. Kunshan South is just 50 km from Hongqiao.

There is supposed to be a plan for "Suzhou-Jiaxing Intercity Railway". When is that completed?

If the track runs along the west shore of Taihu and then turns south, then it's very clear. Just find it a bit odd that there is apparently no need to connect a conurbation of 13 million people (Suzhou, Kunshan, Taicang) directly to Hangzhou by HSR?

A lot of business and private connections between the two regions from my personal experience.

Because there's already hourly direct G trains between the two cities, if one doesn't want to connect at Hongqiao, and the fastest ones only take 1:14.

Because there's already hourly direct G trains between the two cities, if one doesn't want to connect at Hongqiao, and the fastest ones only take 1:14.

The direct distance between Suzhou and Hangzhou is about 170 kilometres as opposed to the 250 or so via Hongqiao. So with a direct line the trip should be doable in about 45 minutes at current speeds?

The direct distance between Suzhou and Hangzhou is about 170 kilometres as opposed to the 250 or so via Hongqiao. So with a direct line the trip should be doable in about 45 minutes at current speeds?

I'd agree with the Chinese logic that speeding up the Nanjing-Hangzhou connection option is a much higher priority than getting incrementally minor improvements on the Suzhou-Hangzhou journey. The latter at 75 minutes is "good enough" for nearly all people, for the foreseeable future.

Just find it a bit odd that there is apparently no need to connect a conurbation of 13 million people (Suzhou, Kunshan, Taicang)

Taicang is a county level city of over 700 000 people. It is rich, it is important lying on Yangtze river waterfront - and although subject to prefecture level city of Suzhou lies 60 km away from the central districts of Suzhou on lake Taihu.

Jiangyin is a county level city of nearly 1,6 million people. It is rich, it contains the richest village of Huaxi, and it is important lying on Yangtze river waterfront - and although subject to prefecture level city of Wuxi lies far away from the central districts of Wuxi on lake Taihu.

Looks like Jiangyin-Taicang is a very wealthy conurbation of over 2 million people.

What kind of passenger trains serve them?

Actually, my personal choice on this route, especially if I wanted the experience and Chinese language practice (and save springing for a hotel night), would be the excellent express overnight train Z9, leaving Beijing Main Station at 19:15 and arriving Hangzhou station at 08:28. Only one intermediate stop in the morning so they roll very steady through the night, and normally very punctual. A soft sleeper lower berth will only set you back about RMB 540. Z's are still great trains even if they aren't HSR.

Great idea. I will chalk it up for future reference. On this trip, I need to be in HZ that day for a dinner appointment.

Taicang is a county level city of over 700 000 people. It is rich, it is important lying on Yangtze river waterfront - and although subject to prefecture level city of Suzhou lies 60 km away from the central districts of Suzhou on lake Taihu.

Jiangyin is a county level city of nearly 1,6 million people. It is rich, it contains the richest village of Huaxi, and it is important lying on Yangtze river waterfront - and although subject to prefecture level city of Wuxi lies far away from the central districts of Wuxi on lake Taihu.

Looks like Jiangyin-Taicang is a very wealthy conurbation of over 2 million people.

What kind of passenger trains serve them?

Now we are getting there...

I'm actually wondering why there currently are no real urban local trains in the Shanghai/Yangtze Delta area? The choice is subway or HSR, but nothing inbetween apart from taking short journeys on slower long distance trains.

Local trains do not necessary need the highly expensive tracks now laid out for HSR projects so can also target smaller urban areas. I know both Jiangyin and Taican rather well and would not always like to resort to private car to get there.

Still, Suzhou to Hangzhou is a major connection even on the nationwide scale.

I don't know how much spare capacity remains on the high-speed line Suzhou-Hongqiao-Hangzhou, but it starts to get close to being saturated, I won't be surprised to see a by-pass from Suzhou down to around Jiaxing, and rejoins the existing line towards Hangzhou.

Great idea. I will chalk it up for future reference. On this trip, I need to be in HZ that day for a dinner appointment.

Since G33 is acceptable for you, it means you can arrive as late as 16:13.

In which case, you might also leave Beijing as late as 10:00 on G13, arriving in Hongqiao at 14:55 connect to G7317 departing at 15:00 and be in Hangzhou at 15:49.

How are the ticket check arrangements at Shanghai Hongqiao connection from one train to another? Is 5 minute connection practical?

In view of the platform assignment of G13 and G7317?

Quite generally, besides other G trains there is a G train departing Hongqiao for Hangzhou every hour sharp between 7:00 and 21:00, thus the feasibility of a 5 minute connection is of general interest.

(G1 of course has 12 minute connection to the train at 14:00)

Also note this:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2012-05/09/content_15245177.htm

First discounts ever on CRH. Offered on Shanghai-Hangzhou and Shanghai-Nanjing lines, only in upper classes (premium and business), not all trains, and some will be restricted by advance purchase. So consider what to use for those 49 minutes...

Since G33 is acceptable for you, it means you can arrive as late as 16:13.

In which case, you might also leave Beijing as late as 10:00 on G13, arriving in Hongqiao at 14:55 connect to G7317 departing at 15:00 and be in Hangzhou at 15:49.

How are the ticket check arrangements at Shanghai Hongqiao connection from one train to another? Is 5 minute connection practical?
In view of the platform assignment of G13 and G7317?

Quite generally, besides other G trains there is a G train departing Hongqiao for Hangzhou every hour sharp between 7:00 and 21:00, thus the feasibility of a 5 minute connection is of general interest.



5 minutes' connection? Absolutely Not! I don't schedule connections for less than 60 minutes at a major rail station like Hongqiao. Maybe 40-45 minutes at a small station where the incoming is normally very punctual. For forum readers unfamiliar with Chinese trains: At Chinese train stations, normally the exit sequence requires completely leaving the platform, then an often long walk to the exit and a re-entrance. Often there is a diversion stream for connection passengers to a separate exit, but still have to go through security again and then walk to gate waiting area where ticket will be validated. Just maneuvering through crowds of people takes a bit of time.

I'd personally choose a G train heading all the way from Beijing to Hangzhou, and forego the "pleasure" of a two-train connection sequence.

5 minutes' connection? Absolutely Not! I don't schedule connections for less than 60 minutes at a major rail station like Hongqiao.

Frankly, I'd be fine with a connection time of 20 minutes there because: 1) trains are usually punctual; and 2) I've pulled off the subway to to track 1 drill many times inside of 10 minutes. While #2 isn't fun, it is definitely doable, and subway to track 1 entails far more walking than any transit within the train station itself... plus some some long escalators and a security screening.

Frankly, I'd be fine with a connection time of 20 minutes there because: 1) trains are usually punctual; and 2) I've pulled off the subway to to track 1 drill many times inside of 10 minutes. While #2 isn't fun, it is definitely doable, and subway to track 1 entails far more walking than any transit within the train station itself... plus some some long escalators and a security screening.

So, is a 12 minute connection (13:48 to 14:00) feasible?

Frankly, I'd be fine with a connection time of 20 minutes there because: 1) trains are usually punctual; and 2) I've pulled off the subway to to track 1 drill many times inside of 10 minutes. While #2 isn't fun, it is definitely doable, and subway to track 1 entails far more walking than any transit within the train station itself... plus some some long escalators and a security screening.

But you know what you are doing and where you are supposed to be going and how to maneuver. I would never advise somebody to do a tight connection and particularly a less-practiced China train traveler, because as sure as luck will have it, there will be a glitsch somewhere, a missed train, and then the advisee has to go into Recovery Operations. Which will involve dealing with ticket office and all that. A pain for anybody but especially for a non-speaker of Chinese. With so many G trains, I do not see what the big deal is about simply planning to take a slightly later train?! Why add stress to one's life?

Need less to say, my answer to the 12 minutes' connection proposed above is :rolleyes:

So, is a 12 minute connection (13:48 to 14:00) feasible?

When I made my last post, I was operating under the assumption that it would be possible to show someone on the platform your onward ticket, and get escorted upstairs to the departures lobby. Upon further thought, I'm not sure if this is true. In the event you are forced to exit and reenter the station, 12 minutes would be very tight. Another consideration is to note which tracks you arrive (almost always track 1 in the case of G1) and depart (would be printed on your ticket) from.

In any event, I would advise you not to try this for the reasons jiejie mentioned. But, if you do, you should do some more research about the logistics of the transfer, and have a back up plan in place.

The cut-off time after which passengers are not let through the ticket check at the upstairs (normally) gate is three minutes before departure at the moment? Or more?

The cut-off time after which passengers are not let through the ticket check at the upstairs (normally) gate is three minutes before departure at the moment? Or more?

I'm pretty sure it's inside of 3 minutes. I've walked onto trains as the doors were closing many times, and made it down the escalators pretty quickly.

The cut-off time after which passengers are not let through the ticket check at the upstairs (normally) gate is three minutes before departure at the moment? Or more?

I'm pretty sure it's inside of 3 minutes. I've walked onto trains as the doors were closing many times, and made it down the escalators pretty quickly.

After reading all posts up-thread, I try to avoid having to change train at HQ. Can Beijingers (or those in the know) confirm if these trains G31 & G33 do NOT require de-training at HQ? Copy & paste unofficial schedule found online per below:

NOTE: G31 enroute stops:
Station Station name in Chinese ArrTime DeptTime Distance (km) Total Time (hh:mm)
Beijing South 北京南 - 08:05 - 00:00
Jinan West 济南西 09:37 09:39 406 01:32
Tengzhou East 滕州东 10:22 10:24 591 02:17
Xuzhou East 徐州东 10:49 10:51 692 02:44
Nanjing South 南京南 12:06 12:08 1023 04:01
Changzhou North 常州北 12:40 12:42 1153 04:35
Suzhou North 苏州北 13:04 13:06 1237 04:59
Shanghai Hongqiao 上海虹桥 13:29 13:34 1318 05:24
Hangzhou 杭州 14:25 - 1487 06:20


NOTE: G33 enroute stops:
Station Station name in Chinese ArrTime DeptTime Distance (km) Total Time (hh:mm)
Beijing South 北京南 - 09:33 - 00:00
Tianjin South 天津南 10:07 10:09 122 00:34
Dezhou East 德州东 10:53 10:55 314 01:20
Jinan West 济南西 11:19 11:21 406 01:46
Qufu East 曲阜东 11:53 11:54 535 02:20
Xuzhou East 徐州东 12:30 12:37 692 02:57
Nanjing South 南京南 13:52 13:54 1023 04:19
Wuxi East 无锡东 14:38 14:40 1210 05:05
Shanghai Hongqiao 上海虹桥 15:08 15:12 1318 05:35
Jiaxin South 嘉兴南 15:39 15:41 1402 06:06
Hangzhou 杭州 16:13 - 1487 06:40

Apologize in advance as the above charts don't show up as neatly as they were found. FT text editor may have something to do with it.

If it's a direct train, it's a direct train. Why do you have to worry about it?

Anyways, as you've already posted, G33 stops at HQ for 4 minutes, and G31 five. Isn't that enough to persuade you they won't ask all HZ passengers to leave the train and reboard another one in that amount of time?

After reading all posts up-thread, I try to avoid having to change train at HQ. Can Beijingers (or those in the know) confirm if these trains G31 & G33 do NOT require de-training at HQ? Copy & paste unofficial schedule found online per below:


No switching needed on these direct trains. You stay on board at Shanghai Hongqiao while passengers exit and new ones enter. Then train will head on out again. For G31, the next stop is Hangzhou. For G33, there is a brief intermediate stop at Jiaxing then on to Hangzhou. Your purchased ticket for Beijing-Hangzhou will designate your assigned seat for the entire journey, even if other passengers around you are getting off at earlier stations.

The worry is not completely unfounded - Shanghai Metro "Line 2" secretly is cut by a connection.

But I understand that direct trains actually are direct - well, perhaps except the international ones.

Now, do the direct trains reverse at Hongqiao?

The worry is not completely unfounded - Shanghai Metro "Line 2" secretly is cut by a connection.

But I understand that direct trains actually are direct - well, perhaps except the international ones.

Now, do the direct trains reverse at Hongqiao?

Which international train is not "direct"? The ones to Hong Kong are, so are those to Moscow. They may switch locomotives at the border for the latter, but the passenger coaches go the whole way.

Hongqiao is a station that goes "through" north to south. No reversing for trains continuing to the south.

I'm pretty sure it's inside of 3 minutes. I've walked onto trains as the doors were closing many times, and made it down the escalators pretty quickly.

Since there is really no hard rules in China, I'd say the cut off time is when the train is moving and you can't physically board.

The Beijing-Hangzhou trains are important for being the longest high speed trains anywhere - 1487 km.

How long shall Longhua-Wuhan-Zhengzhou-Xian trains be this July?


Did not start in July.
DID start in September.
9:20. From 9:15 to 18:35, with G822/G823. 11 intermediate stops. 2221 km distance.

Any experiences with that train?

Any experiences with that train?

Yes. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=95894727&postcount=4516

Yes. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=95894727&postcount=4516

I don't think I've ever seen a long distance train route with a right angle in it until now:

https://www.google.com/search?q=crh+wiki

ETA: While Nanjing to Hangzhou's pivot in SH is a more extreme angle, I don't consider this to be long distance, and it doesn't jump out at you on the map in the same manner as the Zhengzhou example.

Just wanted to pick brains again....
Staying in Wangfujing section of Beijing, traveling to Westlake area of HAngzhou... train vs plane... thoughts? I know wit's about 6 hours on the train vs 2.5 on the plane but anything else to add? how about traveling time to airpot vs train station?

thanks
FDW

Just wanted to pick brains again....
Staying in Wangfujing section of Beijing, traveling to Westlake area of HAngzhou... train vs plane... thoughts?

When?

Just wanted to pick brains again....
Staying in Wangfujing section of Beijing, traveling to Westlake area of HAngzhou... train vs plane... thoughts? I know wit's about 6 hours on the train vs 2.5 on the plane but anything else to add? how about traveling time to airpot vs train station?

thanks
FDW

Train station = 25 minutes v. airport = 50 minutes. I would fly on that route.

When?

May of 2013... a Sunday

FDW

May of 2013... a Sunday

FDW

The trip time in May Beijing-Hangzhou is unknown.

It is unknown because a high speed railway is under construction between Nanjing and Hangzhou. It is due to open in February 2013, in unknown year.

The schedule of Nanjing-Hangzhou high speed railway is also unknown, which is why the trip time Beijing-Hangzhou is unknown.

Wait until at least end of March or beginning of April and see if the Beijing-Hangzhou bullet train line is running. Too early to make a decision right now, and also too early to book a domestic flight for May.

any word about the NAnjing to Hangzhou line? Does anyone know if it's opening this month? thanks!

FDW

any word about the NAnjing to Hangzhou line? Does anyone know if it's opening this month? thanks!

FDW

According to this article (http://www.whatsonningbo.com/travel-msg-556.html), should be in June 2013.

According to this article (http://www.whatsonningbo.com/travel-msg-556.html), should be in June 2013.

Thanks! Looks like I will be flying...

FDW