United MileagePlus (Consolidated) - Random UA questions (mostly route map-based)

Changing the tune from the usual complaint posts to simply gather opinions (or facts) about the UA route map.

1) UACO has such a strong Latin America route network. Why no IAH-SCL or EWR-SCL flights? Seems a big hole, and the only North American option is AC via YYZ.

2) Why no UACO flights from North America (not counting HNL) to GUM? Will this change?

3) Why no UACO flights from NRT to MNL? One of the most-populous countries in East Asia, and a "beach" destination to boot!

4) Why does UACO no longer fly to/from Chicago-Midway? Seeing as they serve both Dallas airports, both Houston Airports, both WDC airports, all 3 NYC airports, and 4 of out 5 "LA" airports, this seems odd.

Inquiring minds (this one, at least) want to know.

All good questions. I, of course, have no inside info to support my theories, but...

1) UACO has such a strong Latin America route network. Why no IAH-SCL or EWR-SCL flights? Seems a big hole, and the only North American option is AC via YYZ.

There isn't a lot of west coast business traffic to SCL, so IAH-SCL, which would benefit from those connections, likely isn't viable so long as AA has DFW-SCL. If UA did enter the market it might strain AA's DFW flight, but AA has the fortune of the LAN partnership and hub in SCL, which gives them an advantage and incentive to stay in. UA would likely just bleed.

EWR has competition from JFK and likely doesn't have the ability to support an extra non-stop, otherwise Delta, a lover of start-and-stop international routes, would have pounced.

2) Why no UACO flights from North America (not counting HNL) to GUM? Will this change?

If UA ever opens up GUM as a gateway to second-tier cities in Asia with their 738 fleet, sure, I could see them going non-stop from the US. As a standalone route, however, I can't see it happening; they don't need to. It isn't that they couldn't fill a 787 from LAX/SFO, it's that there isn't a business reason to dedicate an extra frame to the route when there isn't competition.

3) Why no UACO flights from NRT to MNL? One of the most-populous countries in East Asia, and a "beach" destination to boot!

This one is a little more surprising. I would have thought this to have occurred during PMUA days when they didn't serve MNL at all (the "new" UA serves MNL through GUM). However, now that they have the ATI in place with NH, they effectively serve it from NRT.

4) Why does UACO no longer fly to/from Chicago-Midway? Seeing as they serve both Dallas airports, both Houston Airports, both WDC airports, all 3 NYC airports, and 4 of out 5 "LA" airports, this seems odd.

I am sure UA could serve MDW from a few cities, but they must see the complexity and costs of adding it as a station as too much. They probably assume that the loyalty of their Chicago base of flyers is enough that Southsiders will happily drive to ORD for the privilege of flying UA.

Why no IAH - HKG route? You can get there via NRT, which is just plain silly. So really no IAH to any SE Asian hub. Pick one, I don't care - BKK, SIN, HKG, all serious contenders. Is this a distance limitation? I wouldn't think so, since ORD - HKG exists. Open to theories...

Why no IAH - HKG route? You can get there via NRT, which is just plain silly. So really no IAH to any SE Asian hub. Pick one, I don't care - BKK, SIN, HKG, all serious contenders. Is this a distance limitation? I wouldn't think so, since ORD - HKG exists. Open to theories...

ORD-HKG is one of the longest flights in the world (#18 according to Wikipedia). IAH-HKG would be 8346 miles (according to gcmap), putting it a hair behind #4, Delta's Atlanta to Johannesburg flight which is operated by a 777-200LR. #1 and #2 are SQ's EWR/LAX-SIN flights (respectively) operated by 345's and #3 is QF's DFW-SYD flight (operated by a 744ER).

UA nor CO have planes for these ranges (UA's 744's are the non-ER variety). IAH-BKK would be a hypothetical #2 longest flight in the world; IAH-SIN beats SQ's EWR-SIN flight. It's notable that even SQ chooses to operate IAH-SIN via DME.

If Boeing can deliver on the 787-900 range, IAH-HKG might be possible, but I question whether the market is there (e.g., why isn't CX eyeing say HKG-DFW if this is a viable route?)

lots of similar wishes (SFO-GUM, flights to SCL, ...) in http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileage-plus-pre-merger/959609-what-route-do-you-wish-ua-flew-20.html

I think one thing to remember is that for the last ten years or so, CO has been hurting for widebody lift, so they would cherry pick routes and fly as much as possible on narrowbodies.

UACO has such a strong Latin America route network. Why no IAH-SCL or EWR-SCL flights? Seems a big hole, and the only North American option is AC via YYZ.

CM flies PTY-SCL. CO traditionally only flew high yielding south american routes, and funneled the rest through PTY on their Panamanian subsidiary (I think CO unloaded their majority ownership in '07). Again, making the best use of widebodies. Fine by me- CM flights qualified for EUA, and I had a great upgrade percentage as a Silver.

2) Why no UACO flights from North America (not counting HNL) to GUM? Will this change?

No competition, no west coast hub until the merger. CO 1 always went through HNL and that's an easy segment to predict yields on. Until DL started up GUM service, your only options were flying through HNL or through NRT!

3) Why no UACO flights from NRT to MNL? One of the most-populous countries in East Asia, and a "beach" destination to boot!

PMUA flyers will have to fill this in.. CO did (and I think still does) fly GUM-MNL and offered a codeshare on BR TPE-MNL. What are yields like to MNL? If it's mostly VFR traffic, I'm guessing UA was/is happy to let flyers connect on NH.

4) Why does UACO no longer fly to/from Chicago-Midway? Seeing as they serve both Dallas airports, both Houston Airports, both WDC airports, all 3 NYC airports, and 4 of out 5 "LA" airports, this seems odd.


Both AA and UA have tried this before and both have ultimately pulled out. In the end it wasn't driving much additional traffic and therefore wasn't profitable.

I know PMCO put in the 787 order, but why were they so behind in widebody lift? (Yeah, Boeing does deserve some blame there for all the delays in 787 orders.)

It's almost as if as soon as they merged with PMUA, they started salivating over where they could send the PMUA widebodies. Seems like they should have had widebody orders in well before the 787!

UA doesn't serve both Houston airports does it?
They (as CO) used to fly from Ellington Field to IAH (which was outstanding) but HOU hasn't been around in many many years (back when they had the Houston Proud tail logo jets) or the EWR HOU flights.

UA doesn't serve both Houston airports does it?
They (as CO) used to fly from Ellington Field to IAH (which was outstanding) but HOU hasn't been around in many many years (back when they had the Houston Proud tail logo jets) or the EWR HOU flights.

Correct, the only legacy carriers at Hobby are American and Delta.

http://www.fly2houston.com/hou-Airlines

I know PMCO put in the 787 order, but why were they so behind in widebody lift? (Yeah, Boeing does deserve some blame there for all the delays in 787 orders.)

It's almost as if as soon as they merged with PMUA, they started salivating over where they could send the PMUA widebodies. Seems like they should have had widebody orders in well before the 787!


You'd think.. the lack of widebodies at CO is a well documented phenomenon, as to why they didn't order more 767s or 777s in the interim is a puzzle only CO execs can answer. I know their major international expansion plans started in the late nineties on the back of their DC-10 fleet, but those were fast-tracked for retirement in the wake of 9/11 and the Concorde crash.

They didn't get their first 777 until 1998 and their first 767 until late 2000, I think. Both popular aircraft and they had to wait for Boeing to produce them. So they slowly trickled into the fleet. Fine by CO at that point- air travel was down and there was no reason to pay for aircraft when no one was flying.

Now it's a different story- there are only three major carriers and four legacy carriers operating, all flights are full, and airfares are going up. CO wants an infusion of widebodies to up-gauge popular flights, and UA provided them. (Similarly, WN wanted an infusion of smaller aircraft so they could expand into marginal air markets- FL provided those in a large subfleet at once, helping alleviate the large initial fixed cost involved in incremental purchase of aircraft by spreading it over the entire 717 fleet.)

Correct, the only legacy carriers at Hobby are American and Delta.

http://www.fly2houston.com/hou-Airlines

I stand corrected, I thought they served Houston-Hobby as well as IAH. But I *KNOW* they serve Dallas-Love Field.

The Chicago-Midway option still stumps me. Lots of south-siders who dread the schlep over to ORD. I would think they could at least make money off a couple daily MDW-ORD connectors and, say, MDW-EWR/IAD/DEN. No?

The Chicago-Midway option still stumps me. Lots of south-siders who dread the schlep over to ORD. I would think they could at least make money off a couple daily MDW-ORD connectors and, say, MDW-EWR/IAD/DEN. No?

Unfortuantely it's been tried in the past (at different points in time) and it wasn't profitable so it was dropped.