Qantas Frequent Flyer - Qantas International Lounges in Melbourne close at 1730

Browsing through QF website, and thought this was worth mentioning. Passengers on JQ to AKL do not have any lounge access. CX pax to HKG must use the CX lounge. Unsure about FJ passengers.

They originally had it posted to close at 17:00 when bring in the changes, as advertised on their website. I then wrote to QF and asked which lounge they expected JQ Business Max passengers to use on the flight to DPS, someone obviously hadn't thought of this and thus it was changed again slightly. It does worry me that QF is run by bean counters looking only at short term solutions, the few dollars they save here and there can cost a lot more dollars in the long term.

It does worry me that QF is run by bean counters looking only at short term solutions, the few dollars they save here and there can cost a lot more dollars in the long term.

Exactly. in the same way that QF are saving the cost of a bar service on HKG-SYD(or MEL) and the cost of a tray of towels, but losing people to CX who would prefer to axtually get a drinks service before dinner and a hot towel or two.

I noticed this too while taxing into MEL on a domestic flight at 9:15pm and looking up and seeing the First lounge in darkness, but the Emirates lounge next door ablaze with flights and people moving around. Seemed an appropriate metaphor for the state of Qantas at the moment.


The other thing I noticed was how busy the international terminal was - I counted 9 or 10 international flights departing MEL between 9:15pm and 5am that night, and only one of them (a late night Jetstar flight to somewhere in New Zealand) belonging to the Qantas group. If on average there are 200 passengers per flight x 10 flights = 2000 passengers flying internationally that night, so much business going to airlines other than QF at Australia's second busiest airport.

Also noticed that the Singapore lounge now only opens at 3pm daily. So forget about using Qantas lounge if you had a JQ flight planned in Asia. Bangkok lounge now opens at 4pm instead of 1pm.

The other thing I noticed was how busy the international terminal was - I counted 9 or 10 international flights departing MEL between 9:15pm and 5am that night, and only one of them (a late night Jetstar flight to somewhere in New Zealand) belonging to the Qantas group. If on average there are 200 passengers per flight x 10 flights = 2000 passengers flying internationally that night, so much business going to airlines other than QF at Australia's second busiest airport.

Yes the lovely JQ215 departs 23:55 and arrives in AKL at 05:25

Also noticed that the Singapore lounge now only opens at 3pm daily. So forget about using Qantas lounge if you had a JQ flight planned in Asia. Bangkok lounge now opens at 4pm instead of 1pm.That's crap. open for 9 hours less each day? :(

Is the CX Skyview lounge the only other oneworld lounge at SIN?

That's crap. open for 9 hours less each day? :(

Is the CX Skyview lounge the only other oneworld lounge at SIN?

I thought that must have been a mistake. But looks like they really are going to open for afternoon/evening only. Removes the main reason to choosing Jetstar over others in Singapore.

When MH join OW later this year they will add to the OW lounges at SIN. Although their lounge is in terminal 2.

If there are no Qantas flights it makes sense to me that the lounges are closed

Jetstar passengers may be able to use QF lounges but I wouldn't expect lounges to be kept open for the benefit of jetstar passengers

If there are no Qantas flights it makes sense to me that the lounges are closedThere are still QF flights in the morning. Codeshares. :p

There are still QF flights in the morning. Codeshares. :p

They are not Qantas flights

They are not Qantas flights They carry a QF code, QF gets the revenue, they are for all intents and purposes a QF flight (if you believe all of the marketing hype put out by the airlines).

Dave

They carry a QF code, QF gets the revenue, they are for all intents and purposes a QF flight (if you believe all of the marketing hype put out by the airlines).

Dave

It is just a QF number attached to another airline's flight. If the flight has business or 1st class on it, then the operating airline will , I suspect, provide lounge access

I wouldn't expect Qantas to keep a lounge open for that

If there are no Qantas flights it makes sense to me that the lounges are closed

Jetstar passengers may be able to use QF lounges but I wouldn't expect lounges to be kept open for the benefit of jetstar passengers
That is your opinion but IMO it does makes sense for the lounges to be open for Jetstar (all forms) flights, this decision is very shortsighted of QF.
QF has been pushing JQ for connections through SEA coming off flights to SIN. If it is to encourage QFF and even oneworld, as Jetstar flights can now be booked as part of the Exporer product, then lounge access for QP and status QFFer should be part of the value proposition. AS it stands I will not consider a JQ flight out of SIN.

That is your opinion but IMO it does makes sense for the lounges to be open for Jetstar (all forms) flights, this decision is very shortsighted of QF.
QF has been pushing JQ for connections through SEA coming off flights to SIN. If it is to encourage QFF and even oneworld, as Jetstar flights can now be booked as part of the Exporer product, then lounge access for QP and status QFFer should be part of the value proposition. AS it stands I will not consider a JQ flight out of SIN.

Jetstar is another airline to Qantas and , imo, needs to be thought of as such ; expecting QF facilities to be kept available just for LCC passengers doesn't seem logical to me

It is a choice whether to book Jetstar or another carrier; I have booked a 3K flight from SIN-KUL since the 3K price for a fully flexible ticket was a lot less than other carriers and was about the same as a restricted SQ fare plus the 3K full fare ticket allowed me to select an exit row seat

If it was a longer flight, I would not have booked 3K since I would have then booked business class, but for 200 miles, I thought economy was fine

If there are no Qantas flights it makes sense to me that the lounges are closed

Jetstar passengers may be able to use QF lounges but I wouldn't expect lounges to be kept open for the benefit of jetstar passengers

If Jetstar (or whoever for that matter) advertises it as a feature of their product and specify that is the lounge to use, why would I not expect them to open?

I just had a quick look over the Jetstar flights that depart from Singapore with respective to the change in lounge hours.

It looks like all the current long haul A330 flights to AKL, MEL and PEK all depart at night so won't be affected by the change. So no issue for business max passengers.

The rest of the Jetstar flights from Singapore are A320s. Roughly a third of them are late night/early morning so would not have had lounge access before the change anyway. Another third of flights would have had lounge access before but no longer have it. And the remaining third are afternoon evening flights that fit within the new time range so do have lounge access.

Ultimately it is Qantas' decision to choose whatever lounge hours suit them. Part of the issue is that there has always been a fuzzy line between Jetstar and Qantas.

I think it is good what Singapore have done with Scoot. Making it black and white. Keeping them quite separate and not clouding things with code shares, interlining, FF points and lounge access.

If Jetstar (or whoever for that matter) advertises it as a feature of their product and specify that is the lounge to use, why would I not expect them to open?

I don't suppose many ( if any ) flights where a business class cabin is offered are going to be affected

Jetstar is another airline to Qantas and , imo, needs to be thought of as such ; expecting QF facilities to be kept available just for LCC passengers doesn't seem logical to me

It is a choice whether to book Jetstar or another carrier; I have booked a 3K flight from SIN-KUL since the 3K price for a fully flexible ticket was a lot less than other carriers and was about the same as a restricted SQ fare plus the 3K full fare ticket allowed me to select an exit row seat

If it was a longer flight, I would not have booked 3K since I would have then booked business class, but for 200 miles, I thought economy was fine

Our view regarding Jetstar is different, IMO it is part of the QF system to broaden its reach, and a consequence is to make it a LCC. If I want to travel from Australia to Malaysia or other parts of SEA, I would see a single itinerary with QF flying me to SIN then a short Jetstar flight as acceptable if I do not need to upload my baggage, wait for check in to open, then hang around the airport without a decent lounge before my flight. The fact that QF/Jetstar combo does not deliver this to me is very shortsighted and with MH soon to join oneworld they or other airlines and alliances could see my spend directed to then rather than QF.

If viewed as a separate airline then your approach is quite logical and I too have chosen to book on short sectors.

*shrug* to their own

Jetstar has different airline designator, different websites, different policies; that it may bve owned by the same group doesn't mean that it is QF any more than I would expect QF to act like Jetstar since jetstar is not Qantas

Personally, I will tend to book the best airline of the day and if jetstar meets the required criteria , I'll book it but won't expect it to be Qantas

Fortunately, lounge wise, the rainforest lounge is accessible using Priority Pass

Last trip through SIN , found the jetquay facility to be very nice and may well use that again in June

Dave

*shrug* to their own

Jetstar has different airline designator, different websites, different policies; that it may bve owned by the same group doesn't mean that it is QF any more than I would expect QF to act like Jetstar since jetstar is not Qantas

Personally, I will tend to book the best airline of the day and if jetstar meets the required criteria , I'll book it but won't expect it to be Qantas

Fortunately, lounge wise, the rainforest lounge is accessible using Priority Pass

Last trip through SIN , found the jetquay facility to be very nice and may well use that again in June

Dave
But jet star aircraft carry the Qantas Group logos / writing and milk it as one big happy family. As long as they publicise this there is an expectation of a higher level of service than otherwise provided.

But jet star aircraft carry the Qantas Group logos / writing and milk it as one big happy family. As long as they publicise this there is an expectation of a higher level of service than otherwise provided.

I don't see many references in Jetstar advertising to being Qantas

There cannot be many people that are not aware that jetstar is positioned as a low cost carrier imo. Maybe for some passengers , they need to better manage expectations so as not to lead some to believe that they should get something special

Expecting Qantas when travelling on an LCC is setting oneself up for disappointment and might be better to book SQ

Dave

But jet star aircraft carry the Qantas Group logos / writing and milk it as one big happy family. As long as they publicise this there is an expectation of a higher level of service than otherwise provided.

I don't see many references in Jetstar advertising to being Qantas


Expecting Qantas when travelling on an LCC is setting oneself up for disappointment and might be better to book SQ

Dave


Couldn't agree more ^

I don't see many references in Jetstar advertising to being Qantas

There cannot be many people that are not aware that jetstar is positioned as a low cost carrier imo. Maybe for some passengers , they need to better manage expectations so as not to lead some to believe that they should get something special

Expecting Qantas when travelling on an LCC is setting oneself up for disappointment and might be better to book SQ

Dave The complication here though is that QF is transferring some routes from QF to JQ, and routes where people have always flown QF, with lounge access, are all of a sudden popping up as JQ instead.

People aren't deliberately choosing an LCC, QF is forcing them onto one, and if the QF Group wants to keep the revenue they should make it as painless as possible, and lounge access is one way of doing that.

Dave

I don't see many references in Jetstar advertising to being Qantas


The few JetStar aircraft I have seen have "Qantas Group" or some such wording in big letters on the side.

People aren't deliberately choosing an LCC, QF is forcing them onto one, and if the QF Group wants to keep the revenue they should make it as painless as possible, and lounge access is one way of doing that.


They arn't forced, there are many other carriers out there other than Jetstar. Qantas seems to be pulling out of routes where they don't make enough money. Within Asia, Qantas didn't have much in the way of flights anf Jetstar is not a replacement

Where jetstar is offering business class, then if they were not having a lounge available for those with the full business fare where a lounge exists, then I could see a reason for disappointment, but where only economy is offered, c'est la vie

I don't suppose many ( if any ) flights where a business class cabin is offered are going to be affected

As long as there is just 1 flight where there are eligible passengers that can use the lounge and the lounge isn't open, Jetstar has failed to deliver an aspect of the product it promised - it is as clean cut as that.

As long as there is just 1 flight where there are eligible passengers that can use the lounge and the lounge isn't open, Jetstar has failed to deliver an aspect of the product it promised - it is as clean cut as that.

I did say that I could understand a complaint if the lounge is closed if the flight has business class , but the opening hous of Melbourne and Singapore lounges seem not to impact these flights, only the flights which are economy only

Whatever.

QF is diverting traffic from QF to JQ, they need to provide a lounge alternative when they do so.

Dave

Obviously they do not since the lounge is closed. Travel on a Qantas flight and I expect that the lounge will definitely be open

The issue is the QF booking engine spits out JQ flights, not exactly the separation you talk about above.

JQ offers the opportunity to earn QF status so the way I see it they should be providing the benefits of that status.

It is the old case of jetstar a qantas group airline only when it suits. They will happily take the revenue for earning status, but not provide any benefit, ie closed lounges.

The problem with the QF and JQ relationship is that it is blurry, unclear and designed with the short-term in mind.

When it suits, QF tries to prioritise JQ over all other partner airlines. Even look at the back page of the inflight magazine - Jetstar is the FIRST airline referred to, while all others are presented in alphabetical order. But QF wants to restrict benefits to QFF when flying JQ despite all attempts to present QFF as the defacto program for flying Jetstar. When they sell memberships to the Qantas Club, it states;

"Qantas Club members and Partner members are welcome at The Qantas Club when your next onward flight that day is on a Qantas, Jetstar Airlines* or British Airways flight number."

Jetstar includes Jetstar Asia and Valuair. Now in ports such as Bangkok, Singapore and Melbourne, customers who expect that The Qantas Club can be accessed before a Jetstar flight have been mislead. In Hong Kong, the Qantas Club is open before BA morning departures when there are no Qantas flights. The same for the Qantas Club in Tokyo. Given that Jetstar is referred to in the same sentence and manner as British Airways, one would expect that the same service is provided.

Either make JQ a subsidiary of QF like QLink for all purposes for frequent flyers, or seperate it completely. This hybrid rubbish is a joke.

Either make JQ a subsidiary of QF like QLink for all purposes for frequent flyers, or seperate it completely. This hybrid rubbish is a joke.

You would prefer that no miles , SCs , lounge access be provided at all on Jetstar in a complete separation; that would seem to be a good way to cut ones nose of to spite ones face; where a lounge is available, it would seem to me better to be able to use it rather than lose that altogether

I think that the number of impacted flights is going to be small and more beneficial to have access where possible than to completely diverge the 2 carrires

It does Seem a little odd to sell the ability to earn QFF points and status on all 3K flights and then shut the lounge in SIN for the intra Asia 3K flights!

I was affected by this on an upcoming SYD-sin on QF connecting to 3k to HkG...as a result I did not purchase the plus bundle and will use priority pass to access the sky view lounge at SIN instead.

Seems like the whole 3K operation is not as gold plated as they are making out and they're looking for savings in the SIN business.

.... In Hong Kong, the Qantas Club is open before BA morning departures when there are no Qantas flights. ...HKG lounge is jointly operated with BA, so it is open because BA pays for it, not because QF offers it for the QF codeshares on BA metal :) much less because of JQ or the future JQ-HKG (whatever it will be called). Also the level of competition definitely enters into these decisions.

The net effect is that QF is giving the impression of driving away premium traffic internationally. While domestically it is being quite competitive with Virgin (I recently flew SYD-MEL in J and was surprised at the meal quality, astonishing for a 1 hour flight; though I suppose the price is high enough).

You would prefer that no miles , SCs , lounge access be provided at all on Jetstar in a complete separation; that would seem to be a good way to cut ones nose of to spite ones face; where a lounge is available, it would seem to me better to be able to use it rather than lose that altogether

I think that the number of impacted flights is going to be small and more beneficial to have access where possible than to completely diverge the 2 carrires

It would be preferable if this was the case, people stopped flying JQ, and QF reinstated full-service flights.

It would be preferable if this was the case, people stopped flying JQ, and QF reinstated full-service flights.

I think that it is unlikely that QF would reinstate services that don;t make decent margin. I suspect that many Jetstar passengers have no care over FF miles anyway

The fly in the ointment is that QF sells codeshares on JQ so you can be "flying QF" and run into these non-QF service elements, despite being on 100% QF Group owned, operated and controlled service. So it is (mis)management by design. QF should stop selling QF codeshares on JQ if they don't want to fix the problem -- but that would be sooooo embarrassing to some executives, for lots of reasons!

Bottom line is whether QF is operating to serve customers or their execs :)

Has anyone ever wondered if this Qantas-Jetstar aberration would exist if Qantas had the full flexibility to affect technical and cabin crew wages in line with global market rates?
So perhaps we the public are having to pay for this hodgepodge Qantas strategy through our insistence for a "fair" labour market?
Water will find it's level and I don't blame Qantas for doing what it needs to do, like mice in a maze, to achieve its objective of profit maximisation in the face of regulatory hurdles.
The number of people impacted by the inconsistencies of the Qantas-Jetstar relationship is merely collateral damage and is too small to even be problematic for Qantas. Perhaps more importantly there is no credible competitor in these markets, who can out-match the net benefits that Qantas provides.
Bottom line: We reap what we sow

I think that it is unlikely that QF would reinstate services that don;t make decent margin. I suspect that many Jetstar passengers have no care over FF miles anyway

I remember when JetStar first to fly Bangkok to Singapore route, the passenger manifest has quite a lot of Qantas frequent flyer members. I remember one day (October 2006) I saw at least 50 out of the 108 passengers are QFF members on a BKK-SIN flight.

Somewhat off topic now, but one a MEL-ADL QF flight the other day only myself and one other bloke in J. Spoke to two F/As for most of the trip and both said they expect, in their own words "for every Qantas F/A to be wearing orange in the next 10 - 15 years".

I'm inclined to agree.

Has anyone ever wondered if this Qantas-Jetstar aberration would exist if Qantas had the full flexibility to affect technical and cabin crew wages in line with global market rates?
...QF has lower-wage cabin crew on QF metal using the tactic of employing them through a separate company (100% owned by QF group). For example the A380 crew are all QCCA on approx half the QF longhaul FA wage rate (newly hired as A380 came into service; but had to be supplemented by experienced QF longhaul FAs who took various convoluted machinations to work on the A380, some for a couple of years contract and some permanently -- often with promotions). QF has also had several overseas bases that were under a different labour agreement (London, Tokyo and Bangkok spring to mind). Rather ironically some were much more expensive though most were cheaper (and still are). So QF metal probably operates on similar cost basis to JQ on some routes. Personally I think QF's primary problem is route structure, low aircraft utilization which means bad use of capital, and poor fleet composition for the current mission. Lowering staffing cost is a quick fix, but not necessarily the best fix or even effective. Lazy and inept management is maybe the real problem for QF.

What about ADL international terminal. No lounge after security at all. Not good for anyone transiting (e.g. on QF81/82)

What about ADL international terminal. No lounge after security at all. Not good for anyone transiting (e.g. on QF81/82)

The connection time is pretty short at 70 minutes ; with boarding at 30 mins prior to departure, 40 mins without a lounge is hardly the biggest hardship.

The Adelaide terminal setup seems to me to be one of the better ones ( for Australia )

If they could just get to a setup as, say, UK where domestic and international passengers mingle freely then would be even easier

The connection time is pretty short at 70 minutes ; with boarding at 30 mins prior to departure, 40 mins without a lounge is hardly the biggest hardship.



for you maybe :)

the rest of us board at the standard time for business class (20 mins prior), so that is already a 50 minute wait with nothing to do.

and the connecting flights often arrive a little early, meaning it can be well over an hour sitting and waiting. This has been my experience on the CX connection through to MEL for example.

for you maybe :)

the rest of us board at the standard time for business class (20 mins prior), so that is already a 50 minute wait with nothing to do.


If there is nothing to do, why would you not board when boarding commences?

If there is nothing to do, why would you not board when boarding commences?

using wi-fi

QF lounges should service all JQ and 3K flights, this is a headline benefit for QFF Gold members and above who have lounge access. After all QFF status can be earned on Jetstar flights so it is bordering on deceptive conduct to be selling status credits to pax then shutting the lounge for flights...

QF lounges should service all JQ and 3K flights, this is a headline benefit for QFF Gold members and above who have lounge access. After all QFF status can be earned on Jetstar flights so it is bordering on deceptive conduct to be selling status credits to pax then shutting the lounge for flights...

The clue should be in the name Qantas Club rather than Jetstar club. QFF status can be earned predominantly by flying on airlines other than QF or JQ

The clue should be in the name Qantas Club rather than Jetstar club. QFF status can be earned predominantly by flying on airlines other than QF or JQ

Not a whole lot in a name really...actually in Sin it's the Qantas/BA Lounge :)

I understand your point of view in the way it would apply to other OW airlines but the revenue JQ makes from it's Plus fares stays within the Qantas Group so it should in turn extend these benefits to members. Jetstar treats QFF as its own de facto frequent flyer program when selling these Plus fares and hawking it's credit card products. Jetstar flights also count as one of the 4 'Qantas' flights to requalify for status each year.

No one has mentioned that the Intl Business Lounge in MEL is not open at all on Sundays. And there are Qantas operated flights departing MEL on Sundays.

No one has mentioned that the Intl Business Lounge in MEL is not open at all on Sundays. And there are Qantas operated flights departing MEL on Sundays.


That'll be a typo on the website I reckon, Friday gets mentioned twice:

Location
Airside, Level 1, enter via departures concourse
Hours
04:30 to 17:30 Mon/Wed/Fri

04:30 to 18:30 Tues/Thurs/Fri/Sat

Agreed re the MEL Int. Business lounge it is open on Sundays.

(Besides, why would that be closed when the First lounge is open? http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/lounge-locations/melbourne/international-t2/international-first-lounge/global/en)

See here: http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/lounge-locations/melbourne/international-t2/international-business-lounge/global/en

Agreed re the MEL Int. Business lounge it is open on Sundays.

(Besides, why would that be closed when the First lounge is open? http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/lounge-locations/melbourne/international-t2/international-first-lounge/global/en)

because there are so many new platinums with the double status credit promotions... and all of those free F lounge compensation passes... no need for the J lounge to be open anymore :D

The connection time is pretty short at 70 minutes ; with boarding at 30 mins prior to departure, 40 mins without a lounge is hardly the biggest hardship.

The Adelaide terminal setup seems to me to be one of the better ones ( for Australia )


Personally, I've been on QF81/82 combo twice, on paid J fares. Maybe as a Y pax or points flight, a lounge isn't as important. But if you've paid money to fly J, I'd expect a lounge, especially as the gate amenities are rather sparse. SQ can maintain a lounge - maybe QF and SQ should talk about sharing some resources.

Personally, I've been on QF81/82 combo twice, on paid J fares. Maybe as a Y pax or points flight, a lounge isn't as important. But if you've paid money to fly J, I'd expect a lounge, especially as the gate amenities are rather sparse. SQ can maintain a lounge - maybe QF and SQ should talk about sharing some resources.

Are there actually many people paying for business that fly on 81/82; I would have thought that it would have been predominantly occupied from ADL-SIN by those originating in ADL and that the through passengers would generally take the non-stop service

Are there actually many people paying for business that fly on 81/82; I would have thought that it would have been predominantly occupied from ADL-SIN by those originating in ADL and that the through passengers would generally take the non-stop service

Agreed that there aren't many through passengers - but sometimes you can't get on a direct flight (J is booked out - which happens sometimes when QF6 isn't offered as a flight option). I could fly QF52 or QF10, but QF82 gets in to a near-empty SYD international terminal; not to mention leaves at a better hour from SIN.

Does QF/JQ have any other international flights from ADL?

Agreed re the MEL Int. Business lounge it is open on Sundays.

(Besides, why would that be closed when the First lounge is open? http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/lounge-locations/melbourne/international-t2/international-first-lounge/global/en)

See here: http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/lounge-locations/melbourne/international-t2/international-business-lounge/global/en

Ok, thanks. Sorry, hadn't spotted the typo on the site; was thinking it sure was odd that the int'l business lounge wouldnt be open on Sunday... though serfty, if the business lounge was closed, I guess I could make do with the First class lounge instead! :p

Browsing through QF website, and thought this was worth mentioning. Passengers on JQ to AKL do not have any lounge access. CX pax to HKG must use the CX lounge. Unsure about FJ passengers.

On JQ215 MEL-AKL tonight. Thought I'd try getting into the CX lounge using my WP status seeing as QF F lounge was shut. I was reading through some of the other threads which seemed to suggest as JQ are not part of Oneworld they wouldnt give me access.
However no problems at all and very welcoming albeit the lounge is fairly small.

On JQ215 MEL-AKL tonight. Thought I'd try getting into the CX lounge using my WP status seeing as QF F lounge was shut. I was reading through some of the other threads which seemed to suggest as JQ are not part of Oneworld they wouldnt give me access.
However no problems at all and very welcoming albeit the lounge is fairly small.

That is interesting. MPC diamonds do get access to Cathay business lounges no matter what airline they are flying with. Maybe the lounge staff got mixed up.

That is interesting. MPC diamonds do get access to Cathay business lounges no matter what airline they are flying with. Maybe the lounge staff got mixed up.
Maybe the CX lounge staff thought JetStar was part of Qantas since that is what is written on the side of the aircraft (unless that has changed recently).