EL AL Matmid - Is business class worth it?

I am flying Toronto - Tel Aviv; which is a 767.

My father is older and has mobility issues, so I thought to purchase business class tickets.

The business class tickets are twice the price of economy class.

Is business class "twice" as comfortable; service "twice" as good, as in economy class?

I am flying Toronto - Tel Aviv; which is a 767.

My father is older and has mobility issues, so I thought to purchase business class tickets.

The business class tickets are twice the price of economy class.

Is business class "twice" as comfortable; service "twice" as good, as in economy class?

For such a long flight, especially with an elderly passenger, I would say: yes. However, I am sure many would disagree. I have a neighbour who flies from Tel Aviv to New York EVERY WEEK, and always flies economy ...

IMHO in your case if you can afford, then yes.

Most definitely, but as I gather you are not a regular business class traveller, if you want to enjoy a far superior experience check out what AC's prices are like and if they are similar or if the difference isn't too steep, go with them.

I have a neighbour who flies from Tel Aviv to New York EVERY WEEK, and always flies economy ...because he chooses to or has no choice?

I would say it is definitely worth it. My grandfather has mobility issues and for a few years he's been traveling in first/business. It is a lot more comfortable for him to get in and out of the seat, going to the bathroom is also easier as there are fewer people using them and they are closer, also, with more space to move about, you reduce the danger I'd DVT. If you can afford it, go for it, it will make his travel experience much better.

I am flying Toronto - Tel Aviv; which is a 767.

My father is older and has mobility issues, so I thought to purchase business class tickets.

The business class tickets are twice the price of economy class.

Is business class "twice" as comfortable; service "twice" as good, as in economy class?

In this case, yes it's worth it. But don't get too excited - it won't be the best Biz Class experience out there. Unlike most airlines who have flat-bed seating (or at least angled lie-flats) in C, LY still has recliners on the 767. Just be prepared for that. But I like the LY service.

Most definitely, but as I gather you are not a regular business class traveller, if you want to enjoy a far superior experience check out what AC's prices are like and if they are similar or if the difference isn't too steep, go with them.

I've been pretty underwhelmed recently with AC Executive First. And good friends who usually do LY F or C just came in on AC EF for Pesach and were quite disappointed. For the money, my parent were much happier in the bulkhead on that same flight, AC Y.

Y= )-:
C= (-;
F= (-:

Please feel free to PM me if you need a further explanation

because he chooses to or has no choice?

No idea. I would never contemplate going economy for such a distance, but I was just saying that different people have different priorities.

The YYZ-TLV route seems to have the 767-300 on it for the last few flights, however the 767-200ER generally is the A/C that does the route. The J class is not spectacular for an ULH as the seats are your basic "domestic business class" style (recline, no flat bed) and there is no in-flight entertainment built into the seats. Instead you get personal DVD players. For space the J cabin is worth it if you want to spend $2000 on a flight but if you're expecting a high quality product you'll be disappointed. Check out AC's prices for J as their product is much better than LY's.

Here is the J cabin on the 767-300: http://www.airliners.net/photo/El-Al-Israel/Boeing-767-33A-ER/1952639/&sid=70e7710c3ce70b245ce182991099f96e

The YYZ-TLV route seems to have the 767-300 on it for the last few flights, however the 767-200ER generally is the A/C that does the route. The J class is not spectacular for an ULH as the seats are your basic "domestic business class" style (recline, no flat bed) and there is no in-flight entertainment built into the seats. Instead you get personal DVD players. For space the J cabin is worth it if you want to spend $2000 on a flight but if you're expecting a high quality product you'll be disappointed. Check out AC's prices for J as their product is much better than LY's.

Here is the J cabin on the 767-300: http://www.airliners.net/photo/El-Al-Israel/Boeing-767-33A-ER/1952639/&sid=70e7710c3ce70b245ce182991099f96e

Still twice as good as this:
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/8/8/1708887.jpg

The flight will be good, and the service will be good . My elderly parents fly ONLY EL AL in economy from Toronto, and they rave about the service (but not the lousy in flight entertainment). I think the FA's are little bit more sensitive to seniors than AC, but I have no way to measure that.If he needs assistance with getting from the gate to luggage pick up upon landing, you need to ensure EL Al knows this ahead of time. Its a long walk from the gate.

I would still check out AC if possible just from a dollar stand point.They have non stop flights 3 times a week.

I've been pretty underwhelmed recently with AC Executive First. And good friends who usually do LY F or C just came in on AC EF for Pesach and were quite disappointed.
Interesting. I assume you mean service wise? Hard product is still so far superior to LY's that you simply cannot compare.

Still twice as good as this:
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/8/8/1708887.jpg

Agree, but looking at that picture of biz on LY's 767 in the above post just reminded me of how terribly dated that product is..

The YYZ-TLV route seems to have the 767-300 on it for the last few flights, however the 767-200ER generally is the A/C that does the route. The J class is not spectacular for an ULH as the seats are your basic "domestic business class" style (recline, no flat bed) and there is no in-flight entertainment built into the seats. Instead you get personal DVD players. For space the J cabin is worth it if you want to spend $2000 on a flight but if you're expecting a high quality product you'll be disappointed. Check out AC's prices for J as their product is much better than LY's.

Here is the J cabin on the 767-300: http://www.airliners.net/photo/El-Al-Israel/Boeing-767-33A-ER/1952639/&sid=70e7710c3ce70b245ce182991099f96e

Such a sad product :(

Still twice as good as this:
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/8/8/1708887.jpg

Not saying much

Anyone else getting dizzy looking at both those pictures - and the way they're rounded

Interesting. I assume you mean service wise? Hard product is still so far superior to LY's that you simply cannot compare.

Definitely service-wise. Yes, AC's hard product is better. But having flown a bunch of premium cabins, it's not as good as some of the other ones out there - even with the unrestricted aisle access on AC, I still prefer sCO's BF (UA)

Agree, but looking at that picture of biz on LY's 767 in the above post just reminded me of how terribly dated that product is..

:sad nod of agreement:

Thanks to everyone for their responses.
I think business class is not worth it for me; but probably for my father - I think he would be able to move around more, and avoiding a DVT would definitely be worth the extra cost (as FAA1996 indicated).

Does anyone know if ELAL has a lounge at Pearson Airport (in Toronto) for business class passengers?

Thanks again!

Thanks to everyone for their responses.
I think business class is not worth it for me; but probably for my father - I think he would be able to move around more, and avoiding a DVT would definitely be worth the extra cost (as FAA1996 indicated).

Does anyone know if ELAL has a lounge at Pearson Airport (in Toronto) for business class passengers?

Thanks again!

They do not have one at YYZ.
Its contracted out to either the OneWorld BA lounge or the KLM lounge (i think its KLM).

LY's Y product is just as bad as the J product they offer. Same meals choices on both flights (YYZ-TLV-YYZ) and absolutely no alcohol except red-wine available. The service is good though and I found the cabin staff helpful. I just wish El-Al provided a more authentic Israeli menu rather than pasta or chicken with rice.

I am flying Toronto - Tel Aviv; which is a 767.

My father is older and has mobility issues, so I thought to purchase business class tickets.

The business class tickets are twice the price of economy class.

Is business class "twice" as comfortable; service "twice" as good, as in economy class?

Have you and your zaidie checked out prices on other carriers?

I am 77 years old, and I regularly fly BA's business class YYZ-LHR-TLV. I use BA because - quite frankly and honestly - their standards of passenger service far exceed those of El Al.

Yes, there is a change of plane at London, but everything "happens" in one terminal. BA has its own very comfortable lounges for the use of business class passengers both at YYZ and at LHR. If asked, BA would, of course, provide wheelchair assistance if that is needed.

BA offers kosher meals: HaMasbia out of YYZ, and Hermolis from London.

For the avoidance of any doubt, I am neither a BA employee nor a shareholder, merely a very satisfied multi-trip passenger!

Best wishes to Zaidie and to you!

Have you and your zaidie checked out prices on other carriers?

I am 77 years old, and I regularly fly BA's business class YYZ-LHR-TLV. I use BA because - quite frankly and honestly - their standards of passenger service far exceed those of El Al.

Yes, there is a change of plane at London, but everything "happens" in one terminal. BA has its own very comfortable lounges for the use of business class passengers both at YYZ and at LHR. If asked, BA would, of course, provide wheelchair assistance if that is needed.

BA offers kosher meals: HaMasbia out of YYZ, and Hermolis from London.

For the avoidance of any doubt, I am neither a BA employee nor a shareholder, merely a very satisfied multi-trip passenger!

Best wishes to Zaidie and to you!
First off, OP is traveling with "father" not zadie! Second, is BA really better for an elderly person, considering the transfer? When it came to flying my grandfather to Israel, I could've booked him in LX F or LH F, but that would involve transferring. The idea is to make him as comfortable as possible, which means go through the airport once, be greeted at the gate, taken through passport control, and into the taxi to wherever he's staying. Adding an additional deplaning, walking, security check, and boarding, is an unnecessary hassle. (I ended up saving money anyways and booking him in BF on UA).

Also, why does BA use Hamasbia ex-YYZ? Wouldn't it be cheaper to use a local Toronto caterer?

First off, OP is traveling with "father" not zadie! Second, is BA really better for an elderly person, considering the transfer? When it came to flying my grandfather to Israel, I could've booked him in LX F or LH F, but that would involve transferring. The idea is to make him as comfortable as possible, which means go through the airport once, be greeted at the gate, taken through passport control, and into the taxi to wherever he's staying. Adding an additional deplaning, walking, security check, and boarding, is an unnecessary hassle. (I ended up saving money anyways and booking him in BF on UA).

Also, why does BA use Hamasbia ex-YYZ? Wouldn't it be cheaper to use a local Toronto caterer?

First off, every good turn gets its author a good kicking from someone who has no direct interest in the matter!

The OP is seeking comfort and a good flight experience for his senior male relative. Not only that, but his question was whether LY business class was worth it. All I have done is to point out that there are other carriers, and there are carriers with a better business class product.

"Why does BA use Hamasbia ex-YYZ?" You are asking me? Am I my airline's keeper? :confused::confused:

Actually, "HaMasbia", my fine Tel Aviv flight mayven, is not a name exclusive to ex-TLV catering. There is more to life than Ben-Gurion Airport.

Back to you.

is BA really better for an elderly person, considering the transfer?Well I didn't suggest any of the stop over for the very same reasons you mentioned but I think what 45128 was trying to say is he is not a young person yet does the BA thing and manages fine.

My grandmother may she rest in peace travelled right until last year at the age of 91 and for the past few years I arranged all her travel needs.
She often took domestic connecting flight vie LHR and she was absolutely fine with it as she was greeted at the plane, taken in a wheel chairs through customs, taken to the lounge and the picked up again all the way to the door of the plane so no walking involved. .

Also, why does BA use Hamasbia ex-YYZ? Wouldn't it be cheaper to use a local Toronto caterer?

Hamasbia from Toronto IS a local caterer! The previous local caterer did a joint venture with the Israeli Hamasbia company.

In fact, the Israeli Hamasbia company have made vast improvements in their product over the past 4 years or so. I have been personally involved (as passenger feedback and some liason with the company - strictly not on any commercial basis) and they have worked very hard on the improvements they have made. However, the budget set for each airline is different and many airlines do not realise that producing kosher airline meals is more expensive then regular meals. My own connection is only concerning the meals they produce for EL AL.

Hamasbia from Toronto IS a local caterer! The previous local caterer did a joint venture with the Israeli Hamasbia company.

In fact, the Israeli Hamasbia company have made vast improvements in their product over the past 4 years or so. I have been personally involved (as passenger feedback and some liason with the company - strictly not on any commercial basis) and they have worked very had on the improvements they have made. However, the budget set for each airline is different and many airlines do not realise that producing kosher airline meals is more expensive then regular meals. My own connection is only concerning the meals they produce for EL AL.

Boy, I really hope they have! The ex-YYZ KSML, when compared with Hermolis, is really "och und vey" as my Booba would have said. I have never heard anybody else ever use that phrase, which I paraphrase as "dire".

Hamasbia has a separate facility at YYZ (it's in a different location than the CARA catering facility it's associated with).

Such a sad product :(



Its really one of the worst planes.
What kills me is that if the flight is delayed or when they board early, which happens often, you have no in-flight power in economy.
The projector screen replays over and over the same images from Israel from the 80's.

First off, OP is traveling with "father" not zadie!

Oooo, someones a little testy!!!

Honestly I've yet to fly LY, but I've flown a decent number of C class products, AC included.

(1) AC's seat is pretty damn good. One of the best out there.
(2) AC's service is acceptable.
(3) AC's food is ...acceptable.

Honestly I cringed when I saw the seat LY was offering on this route. It's a long flight, and for myself, the seat would be of utmost importance. I wouldn't expect what LY is offering in C class for ANY flights over 5 hours, let alone 12h31m.

AC's seats fold 180 degrees flat into a bed, and they provide thick comforters and down pillows. Sure the service isn't up to par with the big Asian airlines, but their seats really are among the best out there. And for 12h that's the most important thing in a J/C product. And it's a non-stop.

If you wanted to stop, I'd recommend LX (definitely not LH) or BA -- although I'd be worried LHR-YYZ is too short for a proper night's sleep. For the non-stop AC has to take it. Especially since it looks like the prices are almost identical, give or take a few hundred.

If you wanted a stop, and to try a cool product (angled flat but still way better than LY) Austrian (OS) through Vienna is awesome! Their food is unbelievable. It's some of the best food I've ever had AND it was on a plane :) TLV-VIE-YYZ. It's a bit cheaper too. You should be able to combine AC with OS as they're both Star Alliance. You could do AC on the night flight and OS on the day flight to maximize the strengths of each airline -- the bed on AC and the food/service on OS -- so TLV-VIE-YYZ on OS // YYZ-TLV on AC.

Oooo, someones a little testy!!!
:confused:

Flying from A > B is arguably simpler versus a connection regardless of the service quality, for a customer with special needs or requiring special attention. Bear in mind also that for you, the person making the travel arrangements, non-stop travel will provide you with added piece of mind - be it AC or LY.

Oooo, someones a little testy!!!

Not testy, just pedantic.

Well I think its worth it. The thing I can't stand about economy class is: lack of space.

Im a 747-400 out of yyz. Not sure why they had this plane available but not complaining either. Direct from yyz- no stops at jfk or yul. Perhaps ops will get lucky as well.

In these types of situations (ex flying with older people) it seems comfort is paramount. AC is clearly in every way a better product simply from a comfort perspective compared to LY equipment on this route. Not to mention better lounge at Pearson (I find in TLV the lounge difference is negligible save for the shower in the LY lounge). I do not see any comparison on this route, unless of course there is a large price differential or you have a special desire to fly an Israeli airline.

In these types of situations (ex flying with older people) it seems comfort is paramount. AC is clearly in every way a better product simply from a comfort perspective compared to LY equipment on this route. Not to mention better lounge at Pearson (I find in TLV the lounge difference is negligible save for the shower in the LY lounge). I do not see any comparison on this route, unless of course there is a large price differential or you have a special desire to fly an Israeli airline.
KDL has showers, massage chairs, spa, cigar room, and larger selection of food. Also larger which can make more areas to go for privacy.

KDL has showers, massage chairs, spa, cigar room, and larger selection of food. Also larger which can make more areas to go for privacy.

Indeed this is true, but I have found that going in between some of the Dan Lounge's you can find them almost empty at times. The food selection in KDL is not that much better IMHO, at least during my early morning visits. The AC lounge on the outbound is of course much nicer than both unless the family has strict Kosher requirements. Either way, the EL Al product on this route cannot be compared to AC, El AL offers a significantly weaker product for the specific flight the family is asking about.

(1) AC's seat is pretty damn good. One of the best out there.
(2) AC's service is acceptable.
(3) AC's food is ...acceptable.

Honestly I cringed when I saw the seat LY was offering on this route. It's a long flight, and for myself, the seat would be of utmost importance. I wouldn't expect what LY is offering in C class for ANY flights over 5 hours, let alone 12h31m.

AC's seats fold 180 degrees flat into a bed, and they provide thick comforters and down pillows. Sure the service isn't up to par with the big Asian airlines, but their seats really are among the best out there. And for 12h that's the most important thing in a J/C product. And it's a non-stop.

Just took a trip to TLV for Yom Haatzmaut... AC J out and LH F back.
YYZ-TLV was nice, the bed is solid, the food was ok, the service was ok except for the purser waking me up 2 hours before landing "BREAKFAST?", oy I want to sleep another hour! I don't know why they can't just do a leisurely breakfast if you're up and a quickie if you want to sleep until T-50 minutes. (heh and they miscalculated the time to land so the FAs were still walking around at the 2 mile final... )

LH F was awesome,the ex-TLV food was the best I've ever had on a plane (FAR better than the german food from FRA) but the flight times suck (5:30A if you want to connect to YYZ), I took the afternoon (4:30 flight) and overnachted in FRA and enjoyed 5 hours at the FCt.....

My advice would be to fly him on AC unless LY is significantly cheaper.

Air Canada man...
The choice is obvious. LY's 767 J seats are fine for a flight over to Paris or Moscow but for anything much over 5 hours you're wasting your hard earned money.
AC's EF suits are great, the angle they're at is kind of annoying but the rest is awesome. Please do your tatty a favour and book him on AC. :)

Zai gezint biz 120z

Air Canada man...
The choice is obvious. LY's 767 J seats are fine for a flight over to Paris or Moscow but for anything much over 5 hours you're wasting your hard earned money.
AC's EF suits are great, the angle they're at is kind of annoying but the rest is awesome. Please do your tatty a favour and book him on AC. :)

Zai gezint biz 120z

In a way I think this post is about where I am, the airlines have done an excellent job of persuading people that business class is something more than a backside on a seat. for me I think there's a case that 'average' business class should be the minimum class for all, not an aspirational class requiring disproportionate spending.

... for me I think there's a case that 'average' business class should be the minimum class for all, not an aspirational class requiring disproportionate spending.

How about working out the cost to the airlines of doing that? Do you realise how much a ticket would need to cost if that would be the case? How many such seats could fit in an aircraft instead of regular economy seats?

How about a dose of reality?

In a way I think this post is about where I am, the airlines have done an excellent job of persuading people that business class is something more than a backside on a seat. for me I think there's a case that 'average' business class should be the minimum class for all, not an aspirational class requiring disproportionate spending.
Sure, that'd be great. But if the airlines are losing money while trying to fill up every seat, and people are balking at high ticket prices - let's look at your plan: We have less seats to sell, so we need to charge even more per seat to break even. That's not possible, because people won't buy the seats. That means you will have even emptier planes. And higher losses

I booked a business class award yesterday DEN-AA-YYZ-LY-TLV and back - had it on hold for a few days and the only availability on LY was out of YYZ. Then I found this thread and my heart pickled (לבי נחמץ :p) reading the poor reviews of the plane serving this route, and the unremarable KLM lounge.

Low and behold, don't know what made me check again today, but suddenly JFK-TLV-EWR opened up tons of availability, on 747. Fortunately AA allow free changes so long as origin/destination/airlines are retained. Making it even sweeter, got some taxes back and don't need to overnight in Toronto. ^

I booked a business class award yesterday DEN-AA-YYZ-LY-TLV and back - had it on hold for a few days and the only availability on LY was out of YYZ. Then I found this thread and my heart pickled (לבי נחמץ :p) reading the poor reviews of the plane serving this route, and the unremarable KLM lounge.

Low and behold, don't know what made me check again today, but suddenly JFK-TLV-EWR opened up tons of availability, on 747. Fortunately AA allow free changes so long as origin/destination/airlines are retained. Making it even sweeter, got some taxes back and don't need to overnight in Toronto. ^

Am pleased to hear that this forum has helped you.