All Nippon Airways Mileage Club - does SFO-NRT always have true flat? How does NH compare to OZ?

Hi all,

I'm planning an award trip SFO-BKK next winter using UA miles, in either Business or First, and basically it looks like over the ocean my choices are NH and OZ (and UA of course, but who wants that).

Is it all new staggered true-flat seats on SFO-NRT? What about HND? Do they ever downgrade to old-style aircraft? Based on the OZ forum it sounds like OZ does this occasionally.

I'd love to hear people's opinions on NH vs OZ if you've been on both, either in business or First.

Any insights and help are greatly appreciated, thank you!

Is it all new staggered true-flat seats on SFO-NRT? What about HND? Do they ever downgrade to old-style aircraft? Based on the OZ forum it sounds like OZ does this occasionally.


There's no NH SFO-HND service. JAL is the only carrier flying SFO-HND

NH7 out of SFO and NH5 out of LAX are scheduled to be operated daily by the new config 777...

LAX-HND by the old...

Hope to fly the new version later this year...HAVE flown on OZ's Quadra Smartium and it was good... and with OZ's usual good service/food..

....BUT based on previous experience on NH (Old First Suite sold as Business) I suspect with this new seat they might just be a little better than OZ..

Wouldn't be much in it, and it is no doubt.. "YMMV" material!!:D

NRT-SFO always operates using the 77Ws, so you will have the business staggered seats. As JALPak mentioned, there is no HND-SFO route; only HND-LAX, which is operated by the 772s with the older long haul product.

I've tried the new C products on both and they are both very good products. Here are my thoughts.

The seat

It goes without saying that the new seats on both are fully flat and all have direct aisle access (but I said it anyway). Despite this, I think there are some significant differences between the products. The ANA staggered seat is slightly better than the OQS seat. The seat on ANA is a lot more private and has quite a bit of extra width at the feet and so makes a better bed. The arm rests on one side fold up on both, but on ANA additionally the other rest drops down, making the bed a bit wider in the shoulders. There is more storage space on ANA - under the ottoman easy takes hand luggage without having to ram it in and there is space for shoes under the seat. The tray table design is more practical and larger on ANA and It also has a considerably bigger side table. However, I would say that the OQS seat is marginally more comfortable in seat mode.

The cabin

OZ would make a better choice for couples or with family, there are a few "pair" seats that are closer together whereas on ANA the privacy means you can't really even see anyone else. The flip side of the privacy on NH, is that OZ cabin is more airey and feels more spacious, whereas NH can feel a bit enclosed. As the OZ C cabin is much smaller than ANA's (and is the highest class on the current OQS-fitted 'planes), it has a more exclusive feel to it.

Service

Both are excellent, but have a different feeling to it. ANA's service is very professional, efficient, and somewhat overly formal in my experience. I had more personal attention on OZ (greeted by name etc.) and the smaller cabin helps with this. OZ's service style is equally professional, but a little more friendly. Anytime I wanted a top up or to order something, a OZ FA always appeared as if by magic, whereas on ANA, I find myself having to use the call button (I guess this is partly due to being hidden from view by the seat surround on ANA).

Food/Beverage

A preference foor Japanese or Korean food may sway you - both are good and well presented, but generally I found the main meal food to be better on OZ, and multiple courses were served promptly. ANA's dining to order for the second meal might appeal, and their snack menu was more extensive than OZ. I found the drink, esp. the wine was better on ANA.

Connection/lounge

ICN and NRT Terminal 1 are both great airports - very easy to connect in and good dinning options. ICN is the easiest though and has the edge in shopping (particularly prices!). ICN has a lot of additional facilities, which may or may not appeal, like a museum, an in-terminal hotel, a korean spa/sauna, great kids' play areas, and live events (like traditional music or costume parades).
There is better hot food in the OZ lounge, but again ANA is better on the drinks front. ANA lounge also has better areas for sleep/relaxation and business, but the OZ lounge is lighter and more comfortable than any of the ANA business lounges.

Other things

IFE is probably better on ANA and you can route i-devices through it. ANA headphones were better, but I believe OZ has recently replaced theirs. ANA offer pyjamas on request in C, and their slipper and blankets were better. The other amenities on OZ were better (l'occitane) and you get a proper bag, not just hand outs form a basket like ANA. ANA now consistently provides this new config on particular routes, whereas substitutions do sometimes happen on OZ.

Basically, you can't go wrong with either IMO. I guess it could come down the the convenience of the flight times/connections. With a long connection in ICN there are various tour trips available, but NRT's location means that it isn't worth leaving the airport. I'm also not sure how the products these airlines fly on their regional intra-asia flights compare, which might be a deciding factors. But all being equal, I think in terms of service and food - OZ has the edge on a leisure trip, but for a business traveller, ANA, with it's superior hard product, would be far better for sleeping and working.

The other factor - which doesn't affect you on an an award, is that OZ ticket prices can be significantly cheaper than ANA

Haven't flown OZ J so can't comment on that.

NH staggered is excellent. The mini cabin by F is quiet and not much traffic between the bar (between J and Y) and the galley. Service was professional and attentive but discrete. The FA will pamper you as much as you would like. The "snack" (light meal) selection is in many ways better that a lot of main meal selections on other airlines.

Given the *A asian carrier choices why bother with UA? If you really want to travel in J on a North American carrier I'd go with AC over UA anytime.

Reference points for flights SFO-NRT and NRT-LAX in early April.

Enjoy your selection.

Thank you Nogbad..

Excellent review there! Now I am even keener to try NH's new product! :D

Thank you Nogbad for the very useful information. I've flown NH's new C for a few times and love it very much. But after reading your review, I will try to fly OZ and ICN next time!

Thank you Nogbad..

Excellent review there! Now I am even keener to try NH's new product! :D

Happy to share my thoughts. It is a great product - just the package as a whole is slightly different to OZ. I'm sure different people will have different opinions, but as seats were so similar, I was more focused on the little differences. The main difference with the seat is that somehow in ANA business staggered the foot wells (and so the side tables which are above them) are the same width as the seat*, whereas the side tables with the OQS seat are about half width and the foot well tapers and angles to the side a bit. Not sure how this works, as the seats seem to be similar widths, maybe the NH aisles are narrower or the seats are pitched further apart so they don't have to angle them like on OZ. The difference in atmosphere, comes down the the size of the cabins and the enhanced privacy enclosures on ANA.

Hope you get to try the new ANA seats soon.

*This is true for the 77W, the middle seats on the 787 seem to have the same foot well width, but the rows with two middle seats have narrower tables

Do they ever downgrade to old-style aircraft? Based on the OZ forum it sounds like OZ does this occasionally.


It is only on extreme cases where NH would do the downgrade on the 77W, and not that I am aware of any, as there are 10+ 77W in this config.

On OZ you will see a substanially higher chances of swap to old config as they only have 4 777 in the new config. Also when OZ do a swap, not only you lose the new seat, the old seat don't even have AVOD.

I would suggest NH SFO-NRT.

Flew the OZ quadra smarty-pants last week.
I'm 6-6 210.
The seat seamed a bit tight and the short. No place really for my knees to side sleep. To short to back sleep for me. Just getting to the aisle out of my seat required turning sideways and sucking in my breath.
No staggered C comparison for NH.

I wasn't sure why OZ kept advertising all their awards on the video monitor or why the voters bestowed such honor upon them. My service rivaled an "off-day" on the NH service standard continuum.

Go for F if you've got the miles.

Try and Fly TG F ex BKK! On your return to ICN or TYO wherever you end up transiting.

-Scho

Schoflyer, what on earth are you doing flying OZ? Next thing I know you'll tell us you're flying JL... ;-)

Schoflyer, what on earth are you doing flying OZ? Next thing I know you'll tell us you're flying JL... ;-)

Maybe he already did :p

Thanks everyone for the reviews and opinions. I think the biggest advantage of NH for me is the lower chance of downgraded aircraft. I rarely fly in international premium cabin so a downgrade would be a major blow to the vacation experience.

OZ would make a better choice for couples or with family, there are a few "pair" seats that are closer together whereas on ANA the privacy means you can't really even see anyone else.

Sounds like bummer not being able to enjoy the meal together... OTOH this could be a plus: no guilt about doing your own thing for a few hours ;)

Go for F if you've got the miles.

Try and Fly TG F ex BKK! On your return to ICN or TYO wherever you end up transiting.

-Scho

Yes, I would love to get BKK-NRT-SFO in F on TG/NH, but availability seems non-existent, at least for the period I want (Jan-Feb 2013). Except UA is wide open in all cabins... ahem.

When would you expect more seats to be released? Are they ever released far in advance, or very close to departure?

Yes, I would love to get BKK-NRT-SFO in F on TG/NH, but availability seems non-existent, at least for the period I want (Jan-Feb 2013). Except UA is wide open in all cabins... ahem.

When would you expect more seats to be released? Are they ever released far in advance, or very close to departure?

TG in F is pretty easy to find. NH is F is the problem.

NH seems to NEVER release extra F seats close in. They seem very willing to fly a near-empty cabin that offer it to award redemptions. If you cannot find F seats now, than it is highly unlikely that you will find them later.

TG in F is pretty easy to find. NH is F is the problem.

NH seems to NEVER release extra F seats close in. They seem very willing to fly a near-empty cabin that offer it to award redemptions. If you cannot find F seats now, than it is highly unlikely that you will find them later.

Thanks for the tip. Sounds like my only transpacific F option is UA.

Thanks for the tip. Sounds like my only transpacific F option is UA.

Having flown both, I would rather fly NH's new staggered biz class than UA's new F. Seats are much more private on NH, are about the same size, and NH's biz catering is miles ahead of UA even in F.

Having flown both, I would rather fly NH's new staggered biz class than UA's new F. Seats are much more private on NH, are about the same size, and NH's biz catering is miles ahead of UA even in F.

Thanks. I've been debating between the two, but leaning toward NH biz. You just pushed me even further in that direction :)

------

Good Grief! I did not pay $$$ for that OZ ticket. It was a "long-weekend" award routing that offered availability for a dinner in HKG with a buddy and a stopover in Japan on the return, for the same miles and no YQ compared to a simple TYO RT.

No I have not been on JL.

-Scho

Flew the OZ quadra smarty-pants last week.
I'm 6-6 210....
-SchoThank you for stating this. Most seat reviews do not and because of this may lead to a false understanding by people of different stature, especially if the reviewer is of much smaller size than the reader (i.e. reviewer: 5'8" and 145 lbs)

Hi all,

I'm planning an award trip SFO-BKK next winter using UA miles, in either Business or First, and basically it looks like over the ocean my choices are NH and OZ (and UA of course, but who wants that).

Is it all new staggered true-flat seats on SFO-NRT? What about HND? Do they ever downgrade to old-style aircraft? Based on the OZ forum it sounds like OZ does this occasionally.

I'd love to hear people's opinions on NH vs OZ if you've been on both, either in business or First.

Any insights and help are greatly appreciated, thank you!

I flew ANA's business on the SFO-NRT pre staggered and it was fine,I had a row to my self, but there could possibly be a elbow room issue if you have a seatmate, also it has great customization for reclining posistions, but in bed mode its not the best. Having only sat in a mock up of the staggered seat it feels much better, and I believe its on NH 7.

Best flight, best seating, best food ever. Much better even than new UA lie flats. Very private. Hardly saw wife the entire flight. Food, Japanese selection, was fantastic, service wonderful.

Then flew NRT-SIN on old Biz class. Not even close to as comfortable. Food still good, service great, but comfort and privacy no where near the new staggered biz class.

Will fly them again when the opportunity presents itself...

I just flew NH8 in the Business Staggered configuration a few weeks ago. I would totally take it over UA ;) but to be fair so far I haven't flown UA internationally in a premium cabin because I'm all too familiar with their domestic cabins...

I'm 6'5" and the seats were just a couple of inches too short when in bed mode but wide enough I had no trouble sleeping on my side. Got a solid 7-8h after a couple of very generous pours of sake and an incredibly tasty meal.

Thy even gave me a nice sweater onboard; too bad the sleeves went up to my elbows :D great for sleeping though and the crew got a laugh.

I have some photos and more detail in the trip reports forum (it was part of my RGN-BKK-NRT-SFO jumbo sale report :D). PM me if you want photos of the menu.

I haven't flown OZ yet so I can't help there but ANA is really great.

Hi,

Any recommendations on where to sit in the staggered seats? I will be traveling alone, and would prefer the window seats (that are by the window). Also, I was looking at the menus. Any preference for snacks?

Any recommendations on where to sit in the staggered seats? I will be traveling alone, and would prefer the window seats (that are by the window).

The window seats (A & K) are always a good choice for solo travelers. They are also very popular, so book early!

Then flew NRT-SIN on old Biz class. Not even close to as comfortable. Food still good, service great, but comfort and privacy no where near the new staggered biz class.

That would the intra-Asia Business Cradle IOJ product on the 763. I agree -- not nearly as good as the long-haul IOJ product, especially for the long flight to SIN.

Any photo of the cabins? Also, what is the difference of staggered and cradle seats? Which is better? Sorry to ask. I'm not aware of these new seats.

Battling with oz214 or nh8 in biz.

I'm going with oz213 outbound but I heard about chances of them switching to old config. What should I do to guarantee quadra smartium seats?

Thanks!

For seating information, please visit this this link (https://www.ana.co.jp/wws/japan/e/asw_common/inflight/guide/c/) (also available in the Master Thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/all-nippon-airways-mileage-club/1353616-read-first-all-nippon-airways-amc-master-thread.html)).

Your questions about OZ flights are better off asked in the Asiana forum.