Luxury Hotels - Four Seasons Hangzhou

I didn't see a dedicated thread for this property - mods feel free to move this if I missed it.

The grounds and the facilities of this property are stunningly beautiful, a calm respite in the middle of a typically chaotic Chinese city. The "all you can eat" breakfast in the restaurant, while not a buffet, was excellent. Some of the staff were very friendly and helpful.

Unfortunately, we did not have a good overall experience. We had booked the lowest room category, Deluxe, via a room rate (the Spa Experience package) that offers an upgrade if available at check-in. We also booked through a Four Seasons Preferred Partner travel agent, which offers the same benefit. We arrived on a Friday evening exhausted after 36 hours of train travel and flights from Lhasa. Our only request was that we not be assigned the worst room in the house - which was exactly what we received. According to the staff, they were full that night, so no upgrade was available. Fine. But what was not fine was that the "Deluxe" room does not match the room description, which says that it "offers views of the traditional Chinese garden and pond." This was flatly inaccurate, as our only view was of a blank wall, which significantly detracted from the experience. A little bit of investigation revealed that there are only four rooms in the property that are actually categorized as "Deluxe," so guests are unlikely to actually experience this problem unless the property is completely full. Our room clearly had not seen a lot of use - there was something seriously wrong with the plumbing in the bathroom. Unless we poured water down the floor drain every few hours, there was a prominent cabbage-like sewer smell. We notified the front desk of this issue, but when asked if it could be fixed the only response was a giggle.

I spoke with the manager the next morning in an effort to resolve our problems, and was told that we simply could not be moved until the last night of our stay. I felt like I was bargaining in a bazaar - rather than a pro-active apology and sincere effort to help, several minutes of back and forth negotiation resulted only in a very small discount off the room rate and an extension of our included massages from 60 to 90 minutes. Even the latter was much less than it appeared - while the spa facilities were beautiful, my partner's masseur was untrained and the painful result left him literally bruised, departing the massage well before its scheduled conclusion.

I would not return.

I didn't see a dedicated thread for this property - mods feel free to move this if I missed it.

The grounds and the facilities of this property are stunningly beautiful, a calm respite in the middle of a typically chaotic Chinese city. The "all you can eat" breakfast in the restaurant, while not a buffet, was excellent. Some of the staff were very friendly and helpful.

Unfortunately, we did not have a good overall experience. We had booked the lowest room category, Deluxe, via a room rate (the Spa Experience package) that offers an upgrade if available at check-in. We also booked through a Four Seasons Preferred Partner travel agent, which offers the same benefit. We arrived on a Friday evening exhausted after 36 hours of train travel and flights from Lhasa. Our only request was that we not be assigned the worst room in the house - which was exactly what we received. According to the staff, they were full that night, so no upgrade was available. Fine. But what was not fine was that the "Deluxe" room does not match the room description, which says that it "offers views of the traditional Chinese garden and pond." This was flatly inaccurate, as our only view was of a blank wall, which significantly detracted from the experience. A little bit of investigation revealed that there are only four rooms in the property that are actually categorized as "Deluxe," so guests are unlikely to actually experience this problem unless the property is completely full. Our room clearly had not seen a lot of use - there was something seriously wrong with the plumbing in the bathroom. Unless we poured water down the floor drain every few hours, there was a prominent cabbage-like sewer smell. We notified the front desk of this issue, but when asked if it could be fixed the only response was a giggle.

I spoke with the manager the next morning in an effort to resolve our problems, and was told that we simply could not be moved until the last night of our stay. I felt like I was bargaining in a bazaar - rather than a pro-active apology and sincere effort to help, several minutes of back and forth negotiation resulted only in a very small discount off the room rate and an extension of our included massages from 60 to 90 minutes. Even the latter was much less than it appeared - while the spa facilities were beautiful, my partner's masseur was untrained and the painful result left him literally bruised, departing the massage well before its scheduled conclusion.

I would not return.

Sorry about your bad experiences with the room.

How did you find this area overall? I'm deciding to go hear before our stay at Amanfayun for a couple of nights? Is there anything close by to discover besides the city itself? Is Amanfayun close enough so that one could see the sites without staying at FS? How were the other amenities in this hotel?

"all you can eat" breakfast in the restaurant, while not a buffet, was excellent.
made to order?

Deluxe...view was of a blank wall...four rooms in the property that are actually categorized as "Deluxe

http://www.1.fourseasons.com/pdfs/hangzhou/hotel_facts/quick_reference_guide.pdf
http://ec.biz.fourseasons.com/pdfs/hangzhou/hotel_facts/quick_reference_guide.pdf

10 - deluxe "garden and pond" "1st and 2nd floors"
41 - premier "garden and pond" "1st and 2nd floors"
20 - grand premier "garden and pond" "1st floor"
2 - jr suite "garden" "1st and 2nd floors"
1 - lotus suite "lake and garden" "second floor"
3 - lagoon suite "lake OR garden" "1st floor"
1 - lake suite "lake and garden" "1st floor"
1 - governor villa "garden"
1 - ambassador villa "garden"
1 - presidential villa "garden"

made to order?

Yes, and quite delicious.

http://www.1.fourseasons.com/pdfs/hangzhou/hotel_facts/quick_reference_guide.pdf
http://ec.biz.fourseasons.com/pdfs/hangzhou/hotel_facts/quick_reference_guide.pdf

10 - deluxe "garden and pond" "1st and 2nd floors"
41 - premier "garden and pond" "1st and 2nd floors"
20 - grand premier "garden and pond" "1st floor"
2 - jr suite "garden" "1st and 2nd floors"
1 - lotus suite "lake and garden" "second floor"
3 - lagoon suite "lake OR garden" "1st floor"
1 - lake suite "lake and garden" "1st floor"
1 - governor villa "garden"
1 - ambassador villa "garden"
1 - presidential villa "garden"

The front desk told me that there are only four rooms that they actually categorize as deluxe. Maybe what they meant was, only four rooms that don't truly qualify as even deluxe according to the room category description. In any event, ours didn't.




How did you find this area overall? I'm deciding to go hear before our stay at Amanfayun for a couple of nights? Is there anything close by to discover besides the city itself? Is Amanfayun close enough so that one could see the sites without staying at FS? How were the other amenities in this hotel?

I didn't go to Amanfayun, so I can't comment on that. The FS is directly on West Lake, near the "Impressions" light show and some of the attractions, but opposite most of the eating and shopping. The quieter side, but no side is really quiet on the weekend - there were hordes of people. I'd suggest visiting Hangzhou on a weekday, if possible. That said, the FS grounds were quiet and beautiful.

I found the FS Hangzhou quite generic in an awful location within an extremely crowded area. Stayed at Amanfayun and the experience was superior by far (althuogh Amanfayun is not among my favorite Amans)

I didn't love Amanfayun, either, but Hangzhou is a great city and I look forward to returning to try the FS.

In response to your question, aesla11, Amanfayun is a bit out of town, probably a 20-minute taxi ride to the West Lake waterfront, so no big deal given how spread out the area is. Besides the temples on-site and a small tourist village, there isn't much to walk to from Amanfayun. The Four Seasons, while closer, is also not in the main lakefront area, so if you want to step out of your hotel in a pretty environment on the lake and in the city, then the Shangri-La, Hyatt, or other hotels are closer.

Having stayed at both FS Hangzhou and Amanfayun, I much prefer Amanfayun. FS has lovely grounds but the rooms are very corporate in style - more like a city hotel. 80% of guests are Chinese so international guests are in the minority. Also, 99% of staff is Chinese, so no matter how hard FS try to train them, they are not up to the usual FS level, IMHO.
The spa looks incredible but I agree that therapists are very amateurish, whereas at Amanfayun therapists are extremely well trained and very caring.
I know that the lighting can be very dim at Amanfayun, but in every other respect it is a magical and very authentic experience. Getting to Impressions on West Lake is easy from Amanfayun - you don't have to stay at FS to go there.
I also think the food at Amanfayun is far superior to FS, where the all-day-dining breakfast & lunch buffets are a scrum.

Having stayed at both FS Hangzhou and Amanfayun, I much prefer Amanfayun. FS has lovely grounds but the rooms are very corporate in style - more like a city hotel. 80% of guests are Chinese so international guests are in the minority. Also, 99% of staff is Chinese, so no matter how hard FS try to train them, they are not up to the usual FS level, IMHO.
The spa looks incredible but I agree that therapists are very amateurish, whereas at Amanfayun therapists are extremely well trained and very caring.
I know that the lighting can be very dim at Amanfayun, but in every other respect it is a magical and very authentic experience. Getting to Impressions on West Lake is easy from Amanfayun - you don't have to stay at FS to go there.
I also think the food at Amanfayun is far superior to FS, where the all-day-dining breakfast & lunch buffets are a scrum.

Amanfayun design is more authentic, and like lives in village. FS is a city hotel, the design definitely more grand and corporate. Tip: Book Grand Premier Room category above in FS, the view and room size is much better than lower category of room. Majority of the guests in both hotels are Chinese and the staffs as well.

If only a weekend getaway, I will only choose Amanfayun and it's about 20 mins to the West lake. You have to take hotel car all the time, the taxi driver usually have no idea where is Aman.

Longer trip, I may split the stay. 2 nights in FS and 2 nights in Aman. When stay at FS: Six harmonies pagoda, West lake, Impression West Lake Show and go around city. The Chinese restaurant in FS is really good, I visit there every time and less crowed compare to Hyatt.

Aman: Temple trail, the tea house is a must. Just stay there and relax :D!

A small provocation -- and I've never been to Amanfayun! -- but I've got to question the use of the word "authentic" in the above posts. Authentically what? Authentically great resort, I can accept... historical reconstructions that are accurate to one degree or another like Colonial Williamsburg or any good museum, I'm OK with that too.

But an authentically living Chinese mountain village, I doubt it. The pictures certainly don't look like any of the dozens of villages I have visited over the last 25 years, and I'm pretty sure they didn't look like that in the Tang Dynasty either.

Between marketing device and philosophical conundrum, "authentic" can be anything that is experienced as what it is... I'm just saying, it doesn't sound right in this context.

A small provocation -- and I've never been to Amanfayun! -- but I've got to question the use of the word "authentic" in the above posts. Authentically what? Authentically great resort, I can accept... historical reconstructions that are accurate to one degree or another like Colonial Williamsburg or any good museum, I'm OK with that too.

But an authentically living Chinese mountain village, I doubt it. The pictures certainly don't look like any of the dozens of villages I have visited over the last 25 years, and I'm pretty sure they didn't look like that in the Tang Dynasty either.

Between marketing device and philosophical conundrum, "authentic" can be anything that is experienced as what it is... I'm just saying, it doesn't sound right in this context.

There are all different kind of villages in China. I would correct Amanfayun is quite authentic in term of tea plantation village, not locate in mountain at all. My family owned few tea plantations in Taiwan and China, I would said they did keep all of the traditional houses and its surrounding. Hence, they don't use any architect in the particular project, the interiors designed by Jaya Ibrahim. All the small roads to the temples are remain the same, the opening GM Ian White said they try very hard to keep the original site.

Amanfayun is an authentically great resort and authentically living in the tea plantation village. By the way Amanfayun is style of architecture actually from Southern Song Dynasty.

Aman Lijiang will open at the end of this year. I don't feel like living in the ancient town either. I would only judge when I really visit Lijiang one day. Aman is really good in creating lifetime experience, nothing to compare from photos.

Amanfayun
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4153/5170542663_90349ab7a2_z.jpg

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4129/5171202340_eb77603868.jpg

Aman Lijiang taken from the actual site.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Gf1yvsC4Zfc/Tzf7I5mHufI/AAAAAAAAC2c/f1-fm2BlHE4/s512/7127da8ejw1dpw1m5zsvgj.jpg

mockup room
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--xWOhmmOV3g/T5P6LKGkwWI/AAAAAAAAC90/2yBJmKnvlrA/s512/screen-capture.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0F41Bg6h6-U/T5P6KuZ5z1I/AAAAAAAAC9w/sO_7WfEYU4k/s512/screen-capture-2.png

True - Amanfayun really IS authentic. When everything was despoiled during the Red Guard era, when trees were pulled up and historic buildings destroyed, the village of Fayun was preserved because many dignitaries lived here. It is not a facsimile - it is the real thing, with interiors enhanced by Jiya Ibrahim.

irwin8417

did you find source or save those pics from here >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxury-hotels/1297084-new-rumored-amanresorts-ghm-hotels-2012-thread-post18000404.html#post18000404

either way ^^

I have more photos, this is the new mock up room.

so presumably direct from same source. interesting i assumed Amanjunkies was asked to take pics down.

the village of Fayun was preserved because many dignitaries lived here. It is not a facsimile - it is the real thing, with interiors enhanced by Jiya Ibrahim.

The owner of the Amanfayun and Aman Lijiang are actually from Beijing, "Government related". They are also planning another project in Sanya.

irwin8417
did you find source or save those pics from here >


I have more photos, this is the new mock up room.

True - Amanfayun really IS authentic. When everything was despoiled during the Red Guard era, when trees were pulled up and historic buildings destroyed, the village of Fayun was preserved because many dignitaries lived here. It is not a facsimile - it is the real thing, with interiors enhanced by Jiya Ibrahim.

Thank you for the heads up, I will be there finally in two weeks time and hope it will be as real as Amangalla - so far my favourite Aman.

The owner of the Amanfayun and Aman Lijiang are actually from Beijing, "Government related". They are also planning another project in Sanya.



I have more photos, this is the new mock up room.

which photo ? :confused:

- more like a city hotel. 80% of guests are Chinese so international guests are in the minority.
.

ok and ...?
the point being ?

Also, 99% of staff is Chinese, so no matter how hard FS try to train them, they are not up to the usual FS level, IMHO.
.

is this peculiar only to Chinese staff ? ...

as for authenticity of Fayun
well its best to put it this way ...its AMAN AUTHENTIC ....the setting is as authentic as it gets in that i guess aman preserved or left as much of the original as it could.

the main restaurant is new in that before Aman took the resort over the place was destined to be a club of sorts and the owners had a new building built {then} ...Aman then "amanized " that new build ....

amanfayun is like all aman ; a bubble but a good bubble .... it does give a glimpse of life in a village albeit amanized.

i spent alot of time in FAYUN PLACE which was home to one of the staff for years before being amanized !!

ok and ...?
the point being ?

Language difficulties mainly, but also a difference in guest expectations/behaviour between Chinese guests and International. For instance, many Chinese guests go to the toilets on the ground floor and leave the door open. I experienced this twice at FS Hangzhou, as did my partner.

Language difficulties mainly, but also a difference in guest expectations/behaviour between Chinese guests and International. For instance, many Chinese guests go to the toilets on the ground floor and leave the door open. I experienced this twice at FS Hangzhou, as did my partner.

Oh, yes. I remember this from simple public toilets (if you have to go, you have to go) in Beijing when I was there 10-12 years ago. There were separate toilets with doors but they were left open or the women just sat down next to each other in a row with no walls in between them. :eek: I thought it was only a simple public toilet thing, though...

Language difficulties mainly, but also a difference in guest expectations/behaviour between Chinese guests and International. For instance, many Chinese guests go to the toilets on the ground floor and leave the door open. I experienced this twice at FS Hangzhou, as did my partner.

Well , when in Rome .......

Well , when in Rome .......

Right if you stay local, very very wrong if you use an international product / brand with international rates. In this case you can have higher expectations.

Right if you stay local, very very wrong if you use an international product / brand with international rates. In this case you can have higher expectations.

Err ...wrong by who's standards?
What's " international " ?
And higher ? Expectations ? Hmmmm

Language difficulties mainly, but also a difference in guest expectations/behaviour between Chinese guests and International. For instance, many Chinese guests go to the toilets on the ground floor and leave the door open. I experienced this twice at FS Hangzhou, as did my partner.

In general, I find that when in China, service from the chinese staff will be much better if I speak Mandarin to them. So language barrier can indeed be a issue. The opposite however applies in HK. The service is always better if I speak English instead.

In general, I find that when in China, service from the chinese staff will be much better if I speak Mandarin to them. So language barrier can indeed be a issue. The opposite however applies in HK. The service is always better if I speak English instead.

Interesting! But then Hong Kong is so different from the rest of China. It's also a LOT cheaper!

Any recent thoughts?
Seems as if the hotel chinese restaurant is quite good... that'll be nice...
debating between the deluxe, premier and grand premier room... I've heard second floor rooms are more private but the grand premier rooms are only on the first.... Only appear to be two junior suites so the upgrade possibility from a grand premier room seems limited...

any thoughts on early May weather? Ok for swimming outdoors? any experience with transfer from the airport?

thanks
FDW

I thought both restaurants quite OK; obviously not the best in Hangzhou. I think I was in a grand premier room--very spacious and with outside deck; ground floor but perfectly private due to clever hedges. I liked the hotel's location: outside the bustle but really close to West Lake. Bicycles available. I would guess you could swim outside in May. For actual swimming, their indoor pool is better, and very good indeed.

We stayed at The National Hotel on West Lake, no charge for the meals.

thanks for all the info..
are transfers from the airport difficult? Taxi or should I arrange through the hotel?

FDW

Any recent thoughts?
Seems as if the hotel chinese restaurant is quite good... that'll be nice...
debating between the deluxe, premier and grand premier room... I've heard second floor rooms are more private but the grand premier rooms are only on the first.... Only appear to be two junior suites so the upgrade possibility from a grand premier room seems limited...

any thoughts on early May weather? Ok for swimming outdoors? any experience with transfer from the airport?

thanks
FDW

The ground floor rooms have really nice terraces - like little gardens. Not sure May will be warm enough to swim outside - maybe late May. Definitely get a hotel transfer from the airport - no question.

I had no problem with taxi from the airport. It's a bit of a distance. Driver hadn't heard of FS. Looked at my map; called to get directions; drove straight there. (Used meter without prompting.)

Any thoughts on best way to get to Shanghai from the FS (specifically the PH)? Is taxi to train station; train to Shanghai. taxi to Park Hyatt faster/easier than car straight from FS to PH shanghai? Thanks
FDW

Any thoughts on best way to get to Shanghai from the FS (specifically the PH)? Is taxi to train station; train to Shanghai. taxi to Park Hyatt faster/easier than car straight from FS to PH shanghai? Thanks
FDW

Just take a car and driver- much easier and more or less the same amount of time all in. Hangzhou to Pudong will be less than 2 hours unless the traffic is truly a disaster (possible) at which case 3 hours maximum from FS Hangzhou to the PH.

Any thoughts on best way to get to Shanghai from the FS (specifically the PH)? Is taxi to train station; train to Shanghai. taxi to Park Hyatt faster/easier than car straight from FS to PH shanghai? Thanks
FDW

Just take a car and driver- much easier and more or less the same amount of time all in. Hangzhou to Pudong will be less than 2 hours unless the traffic is truly a disaster (possible) at which case 3 hours maximum from FS Hangzhou to the PH.

I was staying at the PH Shanghai when I went to Hangzhou for the day, and I had the PH arrange the tickets in advance for me on the high speed rail. It took about 45 min on the high speed rail to get from Hangzhou to Shanghai, and another 45 min or so from the Shanghai Hongqiao Station to the Park Hyatt. I don't know how long it would take by car from Hangzhou to Shanghai, or if it's more cost effective to take the train, but Google Maps says it's about 2 hours and 20 minutes... So it seems about the same amount of time. So if you wanted to try out the high speed rail, then maybe that's what you should do?

The other thing to take into consideration in addition to traffic is getting a taxi at the Hongqiao High Speed Rail station in SHanghai, I think it was pretty quick the last time I went but it could be worse depending on the time.

I was staying at the PH Shanghai when I went to Hangzhou for the day, and I had the PH arrange the tickets in advance for me on the high speed rail. It took about 45 min on the high speed rail to get from Hangzhou to Shanghai, and another 45 min or so from the Shanghai Hongqiao Station to the Park Hyatt. I don't know how long it would take by car from Hangzhou to Shanghai, or if it's more cost effective to take the train, but Google Maps says it's about 2 hours and 20 minutes... So it seems about the same amount of time. So if you wanted to try out the high speed rail, then maybe that's what you should do?

The other thing to take into consideration in addition to traffic is getting a taxi at the Hongqiao High Speed Rail station in SHanghai, I think it was pretty quick the last time I went but it could be worse depending on the time.

I did the Hangzhou-Shanghai trip once a month for about 5 years- the train is nice but is not any quicker. You are correct that getting a taxi at the Shanghai station can be difficult at times- in addition the area of Shanghai where the train station is can have absolutely crushing traffic (that is also the domestic airport).