Europe - Euro stopover with students

All:
I am taking a group of college students to GVA this fall. It is a trip that I do every two years as part of a course that I teach. I am looking to do a stopover on the return, essentially one day in another European city. We will leave GVA on 11 Dec, so the stopover will be from 11 Dec-12 Dec.

Here are the things to consider:

1. VISA waver country. This will make lots of things easier.
2. Easy access from the airport to the city (public train or bus)
3. Enough to see in a quick day.
4. I would prefer either French, English, or German speaking, but since we will be tourists, another would be fine.
5. Thoughts have been either DUB or PRG. Remember that I am taking college students, most who will only by 19 or 20. According to my schools rules, they will not be able to consume adult beverages. As such I am disinclined to choose a place like DUB or AMS.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

Not being able to consume adult beverages even though they are of legal age in the countries you are visiting - that is really nuts. Particularly in light of the fact that the rationale for the uniquely American 21-year old drinking age is concerns about drinking and driving, and none of the students will be driving in Europe. But, why let common sense or rationality enter the equation when you have a rule that can be blindly enforced?

Since you posted in the Delta forum, I assume you are flying Delta. That means that your stopover should be in a city that would be a Skyteam connecting point to the US from Geneva. Amsterdam, Paris, and Rome come to mind. If you stay on the ground less than 24 hours, it is a connection, not a stopover, so there is no break in your journey and no increased fare.

If you want more than 24 hours, or want to visit a city which is not a Skyteam connecting point to the US, then I would suggest getting an open jaw ticket and returning from the second city you want to visit, and buying an LCC ticket or train ticket between Geneva and the other city. It looks like Paris is about 3 hours by train from Geneva. There is a train to the Airport from Central Paris.

You say visa waver (sic) country. US citizens do not need visas for most anyplace in Europe you would be going to on the way back (unless you are thinking of checking out Belarus.)


All:
I am taking a group of college students to GVA this fall. It is a trip that I do every two years as part of a course that I teach. I am looking to do a stopover on the return, essentially one day in another European city. We will leave GVA on 11 Dec, so the stopover will be from 11 Dec-12 Dec.

Here are the things to consider:

1. VISA waver country. This will make lots of things easier.
2. Easy access from the airport to the city (public train or bus)
3. Enough to see in a quick day.
4. I would prefer either French, English, or German speaking, but since we will be tourists, another would be fine.
5. Thoughts have been either DUB or PRG. Remember that I am taking college students, most who will only by 19 or 20. According to my schools rules, they will not be able to consume adult beverages. As such I am disinclined to choose a place like DUB or AMS.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

Please follow this Thread in the FT Europe Forum.
Thanks..
Obscure2k
Delta Moderator

What is the subject material of the associated course? My instinct would be to pick a place that complements Geneva but is different, so I would probably look for someplace other than France or Belgium. AMS is easy in terms of airport transportation and efficiency, but I understand your reluctance when you are the responsible party. London (LHR) is also effectively a SkyTeam hub, but it harder and more expensive to reach as part of an open jaw ticket. You might want to consider the airfares, including special taxes imposed at LHR and CDG. Also look at what European cities have SkyTeam nonstops to the USA as, at least with an open jaw ticket, they're not much different from a hub.

What is the subject material of the associated course? My instinct would be to pick a place that complements Geneva but is different, so I would probably look for someplace other than France or Belgium. AMS is easy in terms of airport transportation and efficiency, but I understand your reluctance when you are the responsible party. London (LHR) is also effectively a SkyTeam hub, but it harder and more expensive to reach as part of an open jaw ticket. You might want to consider the airfares, including special taxes imposed at LHR and CDG. Also look at what European cities have SkyTeam nonstops to the USA as, at least with an open jaw ticket, they're not much different from a hub.

The course is a World Civ II. I was looking to keep it on Skyteam. CDG is kind of out, we were going to take the TGV up from GVA anyway. I guess what I am really looking for is a stop with ease from the airport to the city. That is why LHR/LGW would be out, although LCY could be an option, although housing is through the roof in London.

Heathrow Express is less than 30 minutes from LHR to Paddington.

Given the WWII subject matter, why not go to Berlin? Easyjet flies from Geneva. Their December flights don't seem to be loaded into the system yet, but the fares in mid-October are about 30 Swiss Francs ($32 US), plus other junk charges might bring it up closer to $50.

There will be a good rail connection to the center of Berlin from the new Berlin Brandenburg airport. Berlin is fairly cheap for accommodation and food. Many good youth hostels.

I'm not seeing Delta flights out of Berlin in December, but KLM and AF fly out of Berlin.

[edit: I see it was World Civ. II, not WWII. I don't know where World Civ. II starts and ends, but Berlin is still a great place.]



The course is a World Civ II. I was looking to keep it on Skyteam. CDG is kind of out, we were going to take the TGV up from GVA anyway. I guess what I am really looking for is a stop with ease from the airport to the city. That is why LHR/LGW would be out, although LCY could be an option, although housing is through the roof in London.

The course is a World Civ II. I was looking to keep it on Skyteam. CDG is kind of out, we were going to take the TGV up from GVA anyway. I guess what I am really looking for is a stop with ease from the airport to the city. That is why LHR/LGW would be out, although LCY could be an option, although housing is through the roof in London.
LHR/LGW does have public transportation, although its convenience depends on where in the city you are going. Rome would be a natural stop for Western Civ, although the airport to town to destination isn't good, with AFAIK the airport bus going just to the main train station.

You could do a separate ticket, perhaps on a LCC, to ATH and then return to the USA from there using an open jaw and the DL nonstop.

How about a smaller town by train, such as Avignon (I know, it's France) or Aachen? This is assuming that church history is emphasized in the course.

For big cities, the obvious places for Western Civ would seem to be Athens, Rome, Paris, and London, maybe Madrid (and Segovia for the Roman aquaducts) but wrong language. For more modern history, Berlin would be good (Brandenberg, Checkpoint Charlie and the wall, the museum of German history in the former Eastern sector, etc.). In Italy, other ideas would be Florence, Venice, Naples/Pompeii, but airport transportation would not be a plus here.

Heathrow Express is less than 30 minutes from LHR to Paddington.

Given the WWII subject matter, why not go to Berlin? Easyjet flies from Geneva. Their December flights don't seem to be loaded into the system yet, but the fares in mid-October are about 30 Swiss Francs ($32 US), plus other junk charges might bring it up closer to $50.

There will be a good rail connection to the center of Berlin from the new Berlin Brandenburg airport. Berlin is fairly cheap for accommodation and food. Many good youth hostels.

I'm not seeing Delta flights out of Berlin in December, but KLM and AF fly out of Berlin.

[edit: I see it was World Civ. II, not WWII. I don't know where World Civ. II starts and ends, but Berlin is still a great place.]
You could take advantage of the German train network too to go from Geneva to the city center and then from Berlin to AMS or FRA for the flight. Deutsche Bundesbahn has group ticket discounts as well as youth and student fares, but check the documentation of eligibility that is required; I believe seat reservations are required for groups on many trains.

Other thoughts include Vienna (which complements GVA nicely) or Munich, though both are linked to GVA only by legacy carriers, which usually means higher fares. Rome would be also OK in my opinion and plenty to see and it's reasonably priced. Indeed, I think Rome would be my number 1 recommendation.
Most European airports have good links into the city, either trains or buses, so I wouldn't be worried about that.
There are no immigration checks between Switzerland and other Schengen countries, so that won't an issue.
In all countries, people over the age of 18 are considered adults, so there's very little you can do with respect to consumption of alcoholic beverages, other than telling your students.

Remember that I am taking college students, most who will only by 19 or 20. According to my schools rules, they will not be able to consume adult beverages. As such I am disinclined to choose a place like DUB or AMS.

That is just bizarre.
[If the speed limit was lower in country X than it was in the US would you exceed the local speed limit?]
Also, I assume, you will tell them that any sub21 'defence' of being a minor does not apply in the country they are visiting?

Also, quite apart from anything else, the bit that surprises me most is that - based upon the last sentence chosen - you don't seem to trust them?

AMS is very convenient for a one-day stop and it's easy to transfer at when flying from the US to GVA.

That is just bizarre.
[If the speed limit was lower in country X than it was in the US would you exceed the local speed limit?]
Also, I assume, you will tell them that any sub21 'defence' of being a minor does not apply in the country they are visiting?

Also, quite apart from anything else, the bit that surprises me most is that - based upon the last sentence chosen - you don't seem to trust them?

Strange or not, that is the rule. It is not that I do not trust them, it is that I have to keep in line with various school policies. As such, I am going to avoid places where those policies are more likely to be violated. I like taking the students, they gain a lot from the trip, if violations occur, it might end the program. So if I seem a little on the conservative side, so be it. I want the program to continue.

I had actually thought of Budapest, anyone have any thoughts about this? Thanks for all of the ideas as well.

Strange or not, that is the rule. It is not that I do not trust them, it is that I have to keep in line with various school policies. As such, I am going to avoid places where those policies are more likely to be violated. I like taking the students, they gain a lot from the trip, if violations occur, it might end the program. So if I seem a little on the conservative side, so be it. I want the program to continue.

Perhaps you should think about going places where the beer is expensive? It's been awhile since I've been to Eastern Europe but if I remember correctly at different pubs....
- Budapest is famous for the cheap beers and the pubs are in the center of town. $2-4
- Prague also went on a pub crawl here $2-4

OTOH,
- Geneva $6-7
- Dublin $5-7 last year
- Amsterdam $4-6 this year


Of course, they could just buy it any local supermarket for much cheaper. I remember getting our older juniors/seniors to buy us (frosh/soph) beer when I was in the US. Shouldn't be so difficult for them to go on a run while in Europe. Maybe the key thing you should get across to them is absolutely no pictures (facebook, etc) and tell them don't go to the hospital or get in trouble with the police.

Re the alcohol policy concern - you could consider Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan. These are some of the very few countries in the world where it would be difficult for 19-20 year-olds to obtain alcohol.



Perhaps you should think about going places where the beer is expensive? It's been awhile since I've been to Eastern Europe but if I remember correctly at different pubs....
- Budapest is famous for the cheap beers and the pubs are in the center of town. $2-4
- Prague also went on a pub crawl here $2-4

OTOH,
- Geneva $6-7
- Dublin $5-7 last year
- Amsterdam $4-6 this year


Of course, they could just buy it any local supermarket for much cheaper. I remember getting our older juniors/seniors to buy us (frosh/soph) beer when I was in the US. Shouldn't be so difficult for them to go on a run while in Europe. Maybe the key thing you should get across to them is absolutely no pictures (facebook, etc) and tell them don't go to the hospital or get in trouble with the police.

Re the alcohol policy concern - you could consider Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan. These are some of the very few countries in the world where it would be difficult for 19-20 year-olds to obtain alcohol.

I think these would be very interesting places to take students in a World Civ course, but I am not too sure how excited their parents would be to pay for that trip!

Thanks for your ideas, any more just PM me. If a Mod could close the thread, that would be great.

A huge responsibility to take students on a trip
I taught college classes for years and can sympathiz e with your position

It is not that I do not trust them, it is that I have to keep in line with various school policies. As such, I am going to avoid places where those policies are more likely to be violated.

:confused:

To be honest, I'd focus much more on the practicalities of what you will be doing in your 24hours than worring about the places themselves.

You could be somewhere with cheap and abundantly accessible alcohol, yet the combination of what you are doing, etc, would make people to busy to think of anything else.

Or you could be somewhere with expensive and difficult to get alcohol, and where it would be very against culture for people to drink anything more than minimally, yet because of what you are doing, etc, people are bored and looking to find their own entertainment.

If you have a date in question, what do you envisage doing in these places? Just looking around as a tourist? Will you be staying overnight? Where?

Also, personally, if there is any budget factor to this, then I'd be looking in a lot more detail as the cost base could vary widely.

Can you enlighten us non-Americans about your World Civ II course? I don't think the name will mean anything to anyone outside North America. If we know a bit more about it we may be able to give you advice that is more relevant.

On the subject of keeping your students away from alcohol... bear in mind it's Christmas Market time, and things like mulled wine and hot chocolate with rum are very much part and parcel of Christmas Markets... so there is going to be lots of temptation.

World Civ? It would have to be Rome for me. Just the sheer history of the place, many many times older than what the students will ever have seen at home. IIRC there are 2 airports, one closer than the other, but I've taken the train from Fumincino (sp?) which was very simple.

Drinking - they are older teens, I'd be astonished if they didn't drink - we used to on school trips at 14/15! But it was made clear drinking was verboten, anyone caught would be sent home in disgrace so we were careful and self governed, which is what I'd expect your group will do, and the teachers let a certain degree slide. Our teachers were far more concerned with us having sex tho (the hangover would be gone by the time we got home, a pregnancy not so much - girls school!)

World Civ? It would have to be Rome for me. Just the sheer history of the place, many many times older than what the students will ever have seen at home. IIRC there are 2 airports, one closer than the other, but I've taken the train from Fumincino (sp?) which was very simple.

Drinking - they are older teens, I'd be astonished if they didn't drink - we used to on school trips at 14/15! But it was made clear drinking was verboten, anyone caught would be sent home in disgrace so we were careful and self governed, which is what I'd expect your group will do, and the teachers let a certain degree slide. Our teachers were far more concerned with us having sex tho (the hangover would be gone by the time we got home, a pregnancy not so much - girls school!)

The stopover would be on the way home, so any potential thought of "Oh no, I will get sent home" would be gone. World Civ II covers World History from 1500 to the present. We focus on European Expansion, the three great Islamic Empires (Ottoman, Safvid, Mughal), Ming and Qing China, era of Atlantic Revolutions, Industrial Revolution and its aftermath, Scramble for Africa and Asia, WWI, WWI and Cold War/Decolonization. We go to GVA for a few reasons, 1 - safety, 2 - accessibility to the rest of Europe, 3 - the students, most who have never left the state that they live in, can see people from all over the world in one relativity small city.

I try to keep the students busy enough, that they are pretty tired at the end of the day, this keeps a minimum on distractions. They all understand that their grade is dependent, not only on the work that they complete, but their behavior.

I love some of the ideas, thanks.

Strange or not, that is the rule. It is not that I do not trust them, it is that I have to keep in line with various school policies. As such, I am going to avoid places where those policies are more likely to be violated. I like taking the students, they gain a lot from the trip, if violations occur, it might end the program. So if I seem a little on the conservative side, so be it. I want the program to continue.

Sorry to say, but under these rules, almost ALL of Europe would be out of consideration. Not that we all are alcohol-addicts. Its is just impossible to avoid getting beer, wine or liquor in Europe. As already mentioned, they all are in the legal drinking age in all European countries. Just try to live with that fact. Like it or not. ;)

On the subject of keeping your students away from alcohol... bear in mind it's Christmas Market time, and things like mulled wine and hot chocolate with rum are very much part and parcel of Christmas Markets... so there is going to be lots of temptation.

That is a very strong point to keep in mind - and a very interesting part of our culture at this side of the Atlantic Ocean. It very well may be a rather interesting experience.

The stopover would be on the way home, so any potential thought of "Oh no, I will get sent home" would be gone. World Civ II covers World History from 1500 to the present. We focus on European Expansion, the three great Islamic Empires (Ottoman, Safvid, Mughal), Ming and Qing China, era of Atlantic Revolutions, Industrial Revolution and its aftermath, Scramble for Africa and Asia, WWI, WWI and Cold War/Decolonization. We go to GVA for a few reasons, 1 - safety, 2 - accessibility to the rest of Europe, 3 - the students, most who have never left the state that they live in, can see people from all over the world in one relativity small city.

I try to keep the students busy enough, that they are pretty tired at the end of the day, this keeps a minimum on distractions. They all understand that their grade is dependent, not only on the work that they complete, but their behavior.

I love some of the ideas, thanks.

That gives us more information, but it is still rather complicated to answer, because of several things:


It seems that you are on your way back. From which destination? It might be a good idea so stay at another location of interest. Say, if you are coming e.g. from Istanbul (Ottoman Empire), then going to Vienna or Venice might be a good idea.


Reading through the lines, one can get several impressions. You mentioned that your students never left their home-state. Combining this with the very strong requirement of avoid alcohol at almost any cost, then this might indicate to some low-income or social-problem background (sorry, if I am dead-wrong). Is budget an issue? Is there anything else that needs to be kept in mind?

Personally, apart from the alcohol ban, I feel sorry for the students having to spend their time in Geneva - such a boring, expensive place IMO. Far, far more interesting places in Europe to visit on your first trip abroad.

They all understand that their grade is dependent, not only on the work that they complete, but their behavior.

Wow, I didn't know this was the rule in American schools. As a matter of interest, what percentage of their final grade is dependent on behaviour?

For the stopover - perhaps Vienna or Budapest, both of which, as others have pointed out, have good Christmas markets. Budget-wise, Budapest will be noticeably cheaper than Vienna.

Sorry to say, but under these rules, almost ALL of Europe would be out of consideration. Not that we all are alcohol-addicts. Its is just impossible to avoid getting beer, wine or liquor in Europe. As already mentioned, they all are in the legal drinking age in all European countries. Just try to live with that fact. Like it or not. ;)

That is a very strong point to keep in mind - and a very interesting part of our culture at this side of the Atlantic Ocean. It very well may be a rather interesting experience.

That gives us more information, but it is still rather complicated to answer, because of several things:

It seems that you are on your way back. From which destination? It might be a good idea so stay at another location of interest. Say, if you are coming e.g. from Istanbul (Ottoman Empire), then going to Vienna or Venice might be a good idea.


Reading through the lines, one can get several impressions. You mentioned that your students never left their home-state. Combining this with the very strong requirement of avoid alcohol at almost any cost, then this might indicate to some low-income or social-problem background (sorry, if I am dead-wrong). Is budget an issue? Is there anything else that needs to be kept in mind?

The majority of students at the school I teach at are from a lower income bracket. Many have not left the state, or even the surrounding counties. We go to Geneva for various reasons, some already mentioned. Yes this would be a stopover on the way home, not during the three weeks. I usually keep the students very busy, for the majority of them, this will be the only time they get to go to Europe so I am trying to maximize their experience, while providing the academic rigor that needs to be there. I have done this trip numerous times in the past, and each time I try something different, this is what I am looking at this time. I understand the role that alcohol plays in general European culture, I get that. It is possible to have a good experience, and beneficial one without imbibing. I think this rule was instituted to help students understand that this is not a three week drinking trip, but an academic course that will be taught in Europe. Like it or not, that is what I have to deal with. Budget is always an issue, but we do have some flexibility with this. We are staying in Geneva, so almost anything will be cheaper than Geneva.

Personally, apart from the alcohol ban, I feel sorry for the students having to spend their time in Geneva - such a boring, expensive place IMO. Far, far more interesting places in Europe to visit on your first trip abroad.

Wow, I didn't know this was the rule in American schools. As a matter of interest, what percentage of their final grade is dependent on behaviour?

For the stopover - perhaps Vienna or Budapest, both of which, as others have pointed out, have good Christmas markets. Budget-wise, Budapest will be noticeably cheaper than Vienna.

We go to Geneva for a variety or reason, some are:
1. The perception of safety - the majority of theses students are getting help from their parents, someplace that seems safe was important. I would love to spend time in Sofia or someplace like that, but Switzerland is renowned for safety.
2. We have a deal where the costs are not too bad.
3. I used to live in GVA, thus I know the city, region, and country well. We do a fair bit of travel in Switzerland as part of the course.
4. For our discussions on WWII and post-WWII, Geneva is a great city to invite speakers and visit various UN/NG organizations that really help shape the post WWII world.
5. The language barrier is less in Geneva, ie more English speakers, many of my students have no foreign language experience.

As for the question about grade for behavior, the majority of my courses have a participation grade, which can run s high as 15%, but due to the nature of this course, it being away from the traditional campus, the participation % is higher, with a behavior component as well.

We go to Geneva for a variety or reason, some are:
1. The perception of safety - the majority of theses students are getting help from their parents, someplace that seems safe was important. I would love to spend time in Sofia or someplace like that, but Switzerland is renowned for safety.
2. We have a deal where the costs are not too bad.
3. I used to live in GVA, thus I know the city, region, and country well. We do a fair bit of travel in Switzerland as part of the course.
4. For our discussions on WWII and post-WWII, Geneva is a great city to invite speakers and visit various UN/NG organizations that really help shape the post WWII world.
5. The language barrier is less in Geneva, ie more English speakers, many of my students have no foreign language experience.

As for the question about grade for behavior, the majority of my courses have a participation grade, which can run s high as 15%, but due to the nature of this course, it being away from the traditional campus, the participation % is higher, with a behavior component as well.

Thanks for the info - and I didn't want to sound too disparaging about Geneva: clearly you know the place very well and believe that it's right for your students.

Thanks for the info - and I didn't want to sound too disparaging about Geneva: clearly you know the place very well and believe that it's right for your students.

Not a problem, Geneva is usually stereotyped as you did, but it all depends on the exposure that the visitor already has, plus the purpose for the visit. If you are looking for a vibrant nightlife, Geneva is not the place. But does match our purposes well. Thanks for the comments.

The majority of students at the school I teach at are from a lower income bracket. Many have not left the state, or even the surrounding counties. We go to Geneva for various reasons, some already mentioned. Yes this would be a stopover on the way home, not during the three weeks. I usually keep the students very busy, for the majority of them, this will be the only time they get to go to Europe so I am trying to maximize their experience, while providing the academic rigor that needs to be there. I have done this trip numerous times in the past, and each time I try something different, this is what I am looking at this time. I understand the role that alcohol plays in general European culture, I get that. It is possible to have a good experience, and beneficial one without imbibing. I think this rule was instituted to help students understand that this is not a three week drinking trip, but an academic course that will be taught in Europe. Like it or not, that is what I have to deal with. Budget is always an issue, but we do have some flexibility with this. We are staying in Geneva, so almost anything will be cheaper than Geneva.

OK, I understand. @:-) Without knowing your previous destinations, it is not easy to make recommendations. What about:


Madrid, Barcelona, Sevilla or Cordoba. Cordoba or Sevilla are rather difficult for a one-day stop, but they are not too large and still offer quite some historical background.


Lisbon. History rich, easy to reach and not too expensive.


Vienna. Rich on history and easy to reach.


Berlin. Easy to reach and rich on history.


Manchester. Easy to reach and played a major role during the industrial revolution.


On the other hand, give them just some time to relax and make a day-trip to Lyons.

Any of the Scandinavian capitals. Alcohol is pretty expensive there.
Oslo maybe? Pretty compact, Munch museum, Vigeland park..

The stopover would be on the way home, so any potential thought of "Oh no, I will get sent home" would be gone. World Civ II covers World History from 1500 to the present. We focus on European Expansion, the three great Islamic Empires (Ottoman, Safvid, Mughal), Ming and Qing China, era of Atlantic Revolutions, Industrial Revolution and its aftermath, Scramble for Africa and Asia, WWI, WWI and Cold War/Decolonization. We go to GVA for a few reasons, 1 - safety, 2 - accessibility to the rest of Europe, 3 - the students, most who have never left the state that they live in, can see people from all over the world in one relativity small city.

I try to keep the students busy enough, that they are pretty tired at the end of the day, this keeps a minimum on distractions. They all understand that their grade is dependent, not only on the work that they complete, but their behavior.

I love some of the ideas, thanks.

Ok, 1500 -> I'll backtrack from Rome, I think it is a key city in history, but not that timeframe.

Instead, I'll pick a city I know quite well, given some of the other information you have given, and go with London.

Firstly, I think it is a fascinating city, steeped in history from 1500 onwards. There is a wealth of things to focus on, depending on your course. Some examples:

1.You could look at Kings & Queens of England, visits to Tower of London, Buckingham Palace, Hampton Court, Westminster Abbey etc. It's a pretty interesting idea of government, coming, as the students are, from a very different system.

2. You could look at transport - and how trading / being able to move goods quickly (boat, railways etc) changed the world - you could look at the Golden Hind, the Cutty Sark, London Transport Museum, Docklands, etc.

3. Various battles / wars - Imperial War Museum, at least a couple of regimental museums are open to the public, Churchill War Rooms, HMS Belfast,

4. Arts & Culture - Wide open, from traditional painting etc, the Bard (Globe, Stratford perhaps), etc.

5. Tie in a few ideas from the above, and make the theme "British Empire" perhaps?


In terms of transport from the airport - the tube is really super simple from Heathrow (and an experience for the students in itself). Accommodation is pricey at the higher end, but if these students will be happy in basic accommodation, it can certainly be found at reasonable prices for bulk booking etc.

In terms of relaxation, they can certainly do a little sightseeing, which doesn't have to cost anything / little (a walk / riverboat down the Thames taking in things like the Houses of Parliament, Big Ben, Tower Bridge etc.) Tons of Christmas shopping options. English speaking, so not overwhelming if they want to do some independent exploration. Plus I think it is one of the top cities someone of that age might like to visit - I love tons of other cities in Europe, but my impression, now living in North America, is that London and Paris are the top two 'want to go to' destinations.

RobtheAggie - just trying to understand the exact parameters here.

Are you saying you want to leave GVA on 11 Dec to a Skyteam destination - then depart on 12 Dec (or 13 Dec) from that destination to the US?

Doesn't give you much time - or (probably) I've completely misunderstood. :eek:

RobtheAggie - just trying to understand the exact parameters here.

Are you saying you want to leave GVA on 11 Dec to a Skyteam destination - then depart on 12 Dec (or 13 Dec) from that destination to the US?

Doesn't give you much time - or (probably) I've completely misunderstood. :eek:

We leave ATL on 23 Nov and are leaving GVA on 11 DEC. I am looking into extending the trip by one day and stopping at some city (I would prefer SkyTeam) to give the students a different yet complimentary experience to round out their World Civ II course (1500 to the present, otherwise Rome or Athens would work great). I really appreciate the ideas, I think that Budapest, Vienna, Berlin, Lisbon or London look like the way I will head. I think that we will do a stopover in either CDG or AMS on the way to Geneva.

I think that we will do a stopover in either CDG or AMS on the way to Geneva.

Do you mean a stop-over in Paris or a stop-over at Roissy Charles de Gaulle Airport???

(Would you refer to New York City as "JFK", "LGA" or "EWR"?)

My question for the OP is only tangentially related to the topic at hand.

Why the hostility towards student alcohol consumption? Is the school you teach at one which views alcohol as sinful? Do you honestly believe the students won't enjoy a beer or two after their daily program is complete? Why does the school even care as long as they follow local law?

My question for the OP is only tangentially related to the topic at hand.

Why the hostility towards student alcohol consumption? Is the school you teach at one which views alcohol as sinful? Do you honestly believe the students won't enjoy a beer or two after their daily program is complete? Why does the school even care as long as they follow local law?

Indeed. I'm off with school tomorrow to a country where the drinking age is slightly lower. Ofcourse I'll drink but, certainly with school, do it responsibly.
It's a very good lesson actually.
You can't do anything about it if it's within the country's law other than setting clear rules with the students. And should they break them, IMHO, what's the big deal.

We may not agree with the school's rules... but those are the rules that the OP has to obey, and I don't think we should keep bugging him about them. Even if he disagrees with them himself he is unlikely to say so in a public forum.

We leave ATL on 23 Nov and are leaving GVA on 11 DEC. I am looking into extending the trip by one day and stopping at some city (I would prefer SkyTeam) to give the students a different yet complimentary experience to round out their World Civ II course (1500 to the present, otherwise Rome or Athens would work great). I really appreciate the ideas, I think that Budapest, Vienna, Berlin, Lisbon or London look like the way I will head. I think that we will do a stopover in either CDG or AMS on the way to Geneva.

You'll be restricted by flight schedules. There's only one non-stop flight (Easyjet) from GVA to BUD, for example. and in the current schedule that arrives at BUD at 3-45pm - so I guess that effectively makes that option a non-starter.

You'll be restricted by flight schedules. There's only one non-stop flight (Easyjet) from GVA to BUD, for example. and in the current schedule that arrives at BUD at 3-45pm - so I guess that effectively makes that option a non-starter.

I had not checked flight schedules yet. I suprised MALEV does not fly this route. That does sort of make BUD a non starter.

Do you mean a stop-over in Paris or a stop-over at Roissy Charles de Gaulle Airport???

(Would you refer to New York City as "JFK", "LGA" or "EWR"?)

Actually I think a lot of people use the airport code to signify the city. It is usually shorter. Athough CDG, the airport is big, I do not think 18 hours there is what my students would find enjoyable.:)

Have a great trip!

Malev is no nore, is it?

Actually I think a lot of people use the airport code to signify the city. It is usually shorter. Athough CDG, the airport is big, I do not think 18 hours there is what my students would find enjoyable.:)

I know FTers are fond of using airport codes instead of towns, and there are lots of airports/cities where I would probably do the same... but when it's a city with multiple airports, and none of the airport codes are remotely like the name of the city, it just seems weird (and I must confess that seeing LHR instead of London or CDG instead of Paris is one of my pet hates!)

Do you mean a stop-over in Paris or a stop-over at Roissy Charles de Gaulle Airport???

(Would you refer to New York City as "JFK", "LGA" or "EWR"?)

Yes, a lot of people on this forum do just that.

I had not checked flight schedules yet. I suprised MALEV does not fly this route. That does sort of make BUD a non starter.

Hungarian airline Malev collapses (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16866872) (3rd Feb 2012).

We leave ATL on 23 Nov and are leaving GVA on 11 DEC. I am looking into extending the trip by one day and stopping at some city (I would prefer SkyTeam) to give the students a different yet complimentary experience to round out their World Civ II course (1500 to the present, otherwise Rome or Athens would work great). I really appreciate the ideas, I think that Budapest, Vienna, Berlin, Lisbon or London look like the way I will head. I think that we will do a stopover in either CDG or AMS on the way to Geneva.

You mention preferring Skyteam. GVA has few flights with Skyteam. These are the nonstop (Europe) options:
Paris - Air France
Madrid - Air Europa
Rome - Alitalia
Amsterdam - KLM
Prague - Czech

I hope that narrows down your options.

You mention preferring Skyteam. GVA has few flights with Skyteam. These are the nonstop (Europe) options:
Paris - Air France
Madrid - Air Europa
Rome - Alitalia
Amsterdam - KLM
Prague - Czech

On current schedules:
Paris - OP says is out.
Madrid - Air Europa flies once a week, so out.
Rome - first AZ flight arrives 12-55pm.
Amsterdam - good KL schedule, but OP says is out.
Prague - Czech has a morning flight.

On this basis, PRG seems the best bet; otherwise, as others have said, open-jaw on OW and get a LCC flight from Geneva to somewhere - Easyjet has the most options.

On current schedules:
Paris - OP says is out.
Madrid - Air Europa flies once a week, so out.
Rome - first AZ flight arrives 12-55pm.
Amsterdam - good KL schedule, but OP says is out.
Prague - Czech has a morning flight.

On this basis, PRG seems the best bet; otherwise, as others have said, open-jaw on OW and get a LCC flight from Geneva to somewhere - Easyjet has the most options.

I'm not sure the OP has bought the tickets yet. I believe OP mentions Skyteam to bring flight ticket costs as low as possible.... If am I misinformed, I apologize.

AirEuropa has 2 flights for Dec10 and Dec11: MAD-GVA 7am and 6pm, GVA-MAD 940am and 840pm.

AirEuropa has 2 flights for Dec10 and Dec11: MAD-GVA 7am and 6pm, GVA-MAD 940am and 840pm.

Fair enough - I did a quick & dirty Google search for the schedules.

I do understand why the OP choses GVA - because he knows the area & people and feels therefore "safe". On the other hand, if he wants to stick with SkyTeam, then GVA is not the best choice. So that keeps the following options:


go to PRG


go to another location with a bad flight schedule


skip SkyTeam for the trip and take (any) other airline to the destination of deisre


don't to to GVA in the very first place

It's up the the OP to decide what is more important.

How about CPH
Direct train or metro from the airport into the city.
Compact city with plenty to see and do.
English widely understood.

In the evening you could visit the Tivoli Gardens (http://www.tivoli.dk) which is opposite the main train station, which I think would be a lovely way to end a trip to Europe.


5. Thoughts have been either DUB ... Remember that I am taking college students, most who will only by 19 or 20. According to my schools rules, they will not be able to consume adult beverages. As such I am disinclined to choose a place like DUB or AMS.

I would not discount Dublin for that reason alone.
Alcohol is expensive in Dublin not just in pubs but also in stores.
Stores must stop selling alcohol at 10pm, much stricter than most of Europe.

Dublin has a non stop Delta flight to ATL, which would make the trip home easier.