WestJet Rewards - WestJet moving to new IFE system?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2018002585_skycast18.html

Seattle startup Skycast Solutions is announcing Wednesday that Canadian low-cost carrier WestJet is the first airline customer for its new portable in-flight entertainment tablet.

The device is an 8.9-inch Samsung tablet running the Android operating system and using custom content-management software.

Such portable devices can be distributed by flight attendants to passengers who rent them to watch recently released movies, TV shows or sports programming. They can replace traditional in-flight entertainment (IFE) systems embedded in seat backs.

WestJet offers live TV on its fleet of 737 jets, but Greg Latimer, Skycast's chief marketing officer, said the airline has taken its latest 737-800 direct from Boeing without any IFE system and intends to offer the portable tablets.

Latimer said the initial contract is to supply WestJet for just four aircraft, with 68 of the devices per airplane.

It's something that will be available to guests flying on tails without LiveTV.

LiveTV is not going to get installed on new aircraft and until we select a new system this will be a stop-gap.

LiveTV is becoming obsolete as Westjet continues to grow beyond Canada. Bell TV's new satellite removes much of the footprint in the US, so no signal will be available for flights to the US or those which travel over US airpace - for instance many YVR-YYZ flights.

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/04/25/westjet-looks-at-ditching-tvs-for-tablets/

WestJet Airlines Ltd. will introduce pre-loaded tablets on some of its flights as an interim solution to finding a permanent fix for its lacklustre in-flight entertainment.

The Calgary-based carrier will begin renting the tablets on two new Boeing 737s in June, and another two aircraft by the end of the year, charging passengers between $10 and $12 apiece for the service, said Marshall Wilmot, WestJet vice-president of product development.

Mr. Wilmot said the Samsung Galaxy tablets, provided by Seattle-based SkyCast Solutions, will replace WestJet’s live TV and pay-per-view in-flight entertainment on those planes.

From a passenger perspective, where will the tablets be stored onboard???

I have a seeking suspicion the tablets will be stored in the overhead bins, taking up 2-3 bins depending on how many tablets are loaded onboard.

Second question, where will the talets sit/stand while inuse?

I think using the tablets will require lowering the tray table, so will the tablets be useable when the passenger infront of the tablet user reclines their seat?

From a passenger perspective, where will the tablets be stored onboard???

I have a seeking suspicion the tablets will be stored in the overhead bins, taking up 2-3 bins depending on how many tablets are loaded onboard.


68 tablets loaded on board, according to the linked article in the OP:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2018002585_skycast18.html

Latimer said the initial contract is to supply WestJet for just four aircraft, with 68 of the devices per airplane.

answering my own question regrding where will the tablets sit while in-use by customers:

http://skycastsolutions.com/NEW/trayvuslim.html according the the manufacturers website, the tablets will sit either on or clipped to the the seatback tray. I can't the clip idea working with reclined seat.

Other features I learned from the website:
- tablets are custom branded for the customer.
- Screen size is only 8.9", could be an issue for the iPad crowd who are used to 10.1" tablets.
- Same founders invented the DigiPlayer.
- Uses Android OS, easy to jailbreak Android so getting around security/reature limitations will be interesting.
- Westjet is launch customer.

If they didn't load brand new episodes or movies, it is a complete rip off. Tablets are dirt cheap and most frequent fliers know to bring something to do when flying in Y, even J or F. I have not traveled once without my 10.1 galaxy or iPad and I only use IFE to watch the map or to possibly watch a new movie or TV show.

I'm an AC guy, but when I have flown Westjet, I've always thought their system was lacking...PPV shows and movies, whereas AC (usually for the same price for a Tango fare) offeres free on demand video.

Add this to AC's plans to vastly improve their IFE (I read this somewhere online recently, correct me if I'm wrong but I read that they are doubling their IFE content), and suddenly, Westjet is looking more and more like a low cost airline, even though many fares are similar to, if not the same as, those on AC.

I think for the leased planes to Hawaii, it's a great idea. However, for normal flights within Canada and the continental US where they are competing with AC, it might cost them some pax.

That being said though, so many people have their own ipod or ipad or laptop with them anyways, that even on AC, it's not uncommon to see half the cabin (esp. on shorter, business heavy routes) never touch the screen! If westjet were to use these planes on YOW-YYZ, or YEG-YYC, or YVR-YYC, I doubt it would cause many issues...On YEG-YUL or YYC-YYZ would be another story...

I think for the leased planes to Hawaii, it's a great idea.

+1. Flying ~6 hours to Hawaii with no IFE available makes WS an unattractive choice. This helps get them back in the game.

I can see how this makes sense for flights outside of Canada, but I actually like watching live TV on the IFE for my cross country flights! I sure hope they keep these tablets on flights where they make sense to destinations *outside* of the country.

So if we have these tablets on the trays, where will we put our drink/snack? $10 rental???? I'd rather use my iPad instead!

The tablets will initially be on the aircraft being delivered from Boeing with no seatback IFE installed, and as they are mostly -800s, will mostly be on the Hawaii routes, however, could potentially be on any route that -800s are utilized on such as on some YYC-YYZ. The tablets are designed to clip onto the edge of the tray so that your tray is clear for your drinks/snack.

I'm an AC guy, but when I have flown Westjet, I've always thought their system was lacking...PPV shows and movies, whereas AC (usually for the same price for a Tango fare) offers free on demand video.


Agreed. To add to this point, I find that WJ only activates their IFE after take-off and they shut it down before landing. On a short-haul flight, this means you can never watch a movie! AC has them running when you board. I start the movie, dispense with the commercials, and then read the paper during the IFE pause for take-off (NB sometimes you need to reboot the film, choosing the "Resume where I left off" option). On landing, I often get +10 minutes during taxi!

Agreed. To add to this point, I find that WJ only activates their IFE after take-off and they shut it down before landing. On a short-haul flight, this means you can never watch a movie! AC has them running when you board. I start the movie, dispense with the commercials, and then read the paper during the IFE pause for take-off (NB sometimes you need to reboot the film, choosing the "Resume where I left off" option). On landing, I often get +10 minutes during taxi!

That's supposed to be how it works on AC though some have reported in this thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1061421-sd-refused-start-ife-prior-take-off.html?highlight=IFE) that at times it gets shut down early or not started into well into the flight.

Agreed. To add to this point, I find that WJ only activates their IFE after take-off and they shut it down before landing. On a short-haul flight, this means you can never watch a movie! AC has them running when you board.

Perhaps you haven't flown in a really really long time, because for at least a couple of years now, the procedures are that the IFE (TV portion) is operating during boarding and only paused during the safety demonstration. As for movies, they are not on demand, so are indeed started after takeoff, on flights 2 1/2 hours or longer, so that you can indeed watch a regular length movie.

Perhaps you haven't flown in a really really long time, because for at least a couple of years now, the procedures are that the IFE (TV portion) is operating during boarding and only paused during the safety demonstration.

Flying LAS-YQR on Monday (May 7) we didn't have working IFE until we were in the air. I didn't really use it much (couldn't find anything interesting on a Monday morning and early afternoon) so I didn't have it on when we landed.

Ah yes, thanks for the clarification. The tv's are not allowed to be on when on the ground in the US or other international destinations due to contract limitations.

I am also more interested in the Live TV selection and wish Westjet will maintain the LIVE TV service. I see its LIVE TV capability a big plus over Air Canada AVOD system with no LIVE TV function. Most of us have smart phones, laptops and tablets to entertain ourselves, and for domestic flights, LIVE TV makes it special. IMHO I prefer Live TV over AVOD on domestic flights.

Maybe I will write a short email to Westjet after my three flights in June.

Carfield

LiveTV is becoming obsolete as Westjet continues to grow beyond Canada. Bell TV's new satellite removes much of the footprint in the US, so no signal will be available for flights to the US or those which travel over US airpace - for instance many YVR-YYZ flights.

The LiveTV system is compatible with DirecTV as well—WS could consider offering that as an option over US airspace, no?
Or do as B6 does and offer free PPV on flights that leave the LiveTV coverage area?
(Obviously, I know not what the cost would be for either of these.)

That's supposed to be how it works on AC though some have reported in this thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1061421-sd-refused-start-ife-prior-take-off.html?highlight=IFE) that at times it gets shut down early or not started into well into the flight.

Agreed. To add to this point, I find that WJ only activates their IFE after take-off and they shut it down before landing. On a short-haul flight, this means you can never watch a movie! AC has them running when you board. I start the movie, dispense with the commercials, and then read the paper during the IFE pause for take-off (NB sometimes you need to reboot the film, choosing the "Resume where I left off" option). On landing, I often get +10 minutes during taxi!

Resume where I left off never appears for me after the safety video/take-off. :(

The biggest advantage to me of built-in IFE on short-haul flights, though, is that the system is (usually) operable during taxiing, take-off and landing. Any tablet system would definitely not be, just like our own personal electronics. Add to that the time of distributing and collecting the players, and on shorter flights, you could lose IFE for half of the time!

The LiveTV system is compatible with DirecTV as well—WS could consider offering that as an option over US airspace, no?

LiveTV does use DirecTV in the States, but I doubt that both systems are compatible. In general, Bell Satellite uses equipment made by Echostar (Dish Network). Totally different system than DirecTV. Which means it would probably need different on-board decoders, wouldn't easily co-exist with Bell, etc. Besides, an anecdotal reading of various Trip Reports here on FT show that people much prefer AC's IFE system to satellite TV anyway.

The new permanent entertainment system will allow passengers to hook up their own devices to a network with about 1,000 movies, Internet connectivity and a few live channels for sports and business.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/westjet-passengers-may-get-entertainment-on-own-tablets-phones-1.1046412#ixzz2Cp4QuCgr

Hmmm....I'm ok with using my iPad but what % of people have these? What about the rest of your travellers? Will they now fly someone else?

Hmmm....I'm ok with using my iPad but what % of people have these? What about the rest of your travellers? Will they now fly someone else?

I think hard wired, permanently installed IFE is going the way of the dodo bird. I think this is the way of the future.

:)

Hmmm....I'm ok with using my iPad but what % of people have these? What about the rest of your travellers? Will they now fly someone else?

Market Research indicates the majority of people travel with a wifi capable device (laptop, iPad, phone, etc.). Internet may not be the only option, though.

Intriguing idea - hopefully WS will also provide in-seat power to power our devices.

Intriguing idea - hopefully WS will also provide in-seat power to power our devices.

This is the key. Give me my own power jack, and I can entertain myself all day if needed.

This is the key. Give me my own power jack, and I can entertain myself all day if needed.
The cost and complexity of refitting aircraft for power at each seat is prohibitive. Most mobile devices have enough battery power to easily last a full flight. Combine this with charging stations in airports and the most cost effective solution emerges with only a server and 3 antennas in the cabin required, together with the external dome /antenna.

Market Research indicates the majority of people travel with a wifi capable device (laptop, iPad, phone, etc.). Internet may not be the only option, though.

I think WS needs to do a lot more research than just determining who has a wifi capable device.

First off will be determining whether the chosen product will require an App to be installed for proper use. If the IFE requires an app, it will likely be an epic fail for anyone trying to use the system from a corporate device. Most corporations have the IT department restrict ability to download and install software. There are several new products that extend the ability for IT department to control iOS and Android products. MaaS360 is one type of software. The MaaS360 also replaces the App Store with a filtered version of the App Store, all the user sees are Apps approved by the central IT department.

Second issue, and this even applies to organizations that permit employees to install their own software, is the isue of controlled connectivity. Basically, new enterprise connectivity software requires that corporate devices be connected to the internet inorder for the system to VPN home. The VPN requirement allows for companies to extend their Group Policy Object and security settings to all internet traffic. In the WS WIFI IFE scenario, the corporate user would require an internet connection to maintain WIFI signal.

Finally, there is the issue of WS current customer base vs the furture customer base. While I agree the current customer base has wifi enabled devices, thsi trend might not continue into the future. WS future pax will contain a larger component of international codeshare pax. While I bring my mobile devices (iPad, Blackberry, Laptop) for North American trips, I do not bring mobile devices for International (TransAT and TransPac) trips.

Overall I wish WS well in their next gen IFE endevours, however I think they really need to sit down and get a handle on mobile device management intiatives (e.g. spend some bucks with Gartner to find out where MDM is headed in the next five years), and determine whether their current and future customer groups will be with mobile devices for travel purposes.

The cost and complexity of refitting aircraft for power at each seat is prohibitive.

But the current WS IFE has power at each seat, just no 110v NA style outlet. THe power might not be 110V but refitting each seat with power cable and outlet is not that complex considering that any new IFE will ahve to go through Transport approval.

Also relying on airport charge stations and battery life is not considerate to the business traveller who has meetings right up to the time they leave for the airport, zero time to hang around the airport boarding lounge, etc. If you are going to do BYOD IFE, it will have to include power at each seat.

Can't say this move makes me too happy though long ago learned never to rely on any airline IFE for entertainment.

The cost and complexity of refitting aircraft for power at each seat is prohibitive. Most mobile devices have enough battery power to easily last a full flight. Combine this with charging stations in airports and the most cost effective solution emerges with only a server and 3 antennas in the cabin required, together with the external dome /antenna.

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on whether I had time to charge at the airport and how many connections I have, and how long the flight is. YQR-YYC-YVR-HNL on WestJet might be tough slugging, even with a tablet with a long-life battery.

If they can supply power for IFE, surely supplying AC power is no harder if they aren't also installing screens.

But the current WS IFE has power at each seat, just no 110v NA style outlet. THe power might not be 110V but refitting each seat with power cable and outlet is not that complex considering that any new IFE will ahve to go through Transport approval.

Also relying on airport charge stations and battery life is not considerate to the business traveller who has meetings right up to the time they leave for the airport, zero time to hang around the airport boarding lounge, etc. If you are going to do BYOD IFE, it will have to include power at each seat.
The existing LiveTV distribution units would not provide suitable wiring for 110V. Perhaps USB 5V connectors would be possible, but would require a custom install and would not support laptop or large tablet charging. Basically, a tear-down of the cabin would be the only reasonable approach to installing power to each seat.

I think WS needs to do a lot more research than just determining who has a wifi capable device.

First off will be determining whether the chosen product will require an App to be installed for proper use. If the IFE requires an app, it will likely be an epic fail for anyone trying to use the system from a corporate device. Most corporations have the IT department restrict ability to download and install software. There are several new products that extend the ability for IT department to control iOS and Android products. MaaS360 is one type of software. The MaaS360 also replaces the App Store with a filtered version of the App Store, all the user sees are Apps approved by the central IT department.

Second issue, and this even applies to organizations that permit employees to install their own software, is the isue of controlled connectivity. Basically, new enterprise connectivity software requires that corporate devices be connected to the internet inorder for the system to VPN home. The VPN requirement allows for companies to extend their Group Policy Object and security settings to all internet traffic. In the WS WIFI IFE scenario, the corporate user would require an internet connection to maintain WIFI signal.

Finally, there is the issue of WS current customer base vs the furture customer base. While I agree the current customer base has wifi enabled devices, thsi trend might not continue into the future. WS future pax will contain a larger component of international codeshare pax. While I bring my mobile devices (iPad, Blackberry, Laptop) for North American trips, I do not bring mobile devices for International (TransAT and TransPac) trips.

Overall I wish WS well in their next gen IFE endevours, however I think they really need to sit down and get a handle on mobile device management intiatives (e.g. spend some bucks with Gartner to find out where MDM is headed in the next five years), and determine whether their current and future customer groups will be with mobile devices for travel purposes.
All these elements and more will be considered in any future WS IFE installation. The biggest problem of wifi in the cabin is the limited bandwidth capability for delivery of better than 240p video to more than about 50 people by using unicast TCP/IP protocols. There is no single ideal solution, but there are optimised possibilities for a general IFE offering.

The ROI on seat back systems is at least twice as long as hotspot only systems, with a consequent doubling of charges or costs (if built into the ticket price).

Locked-down corporate devices are generally backward thinking in a BYOD world, anybody I know who works for a corporation with restrictive policies always has their own personal device, too. WestJet used to spend $32,000 a year on Gartner subscriptions, but has since moved to more cost effective IT research. Their insights are valid, but no more so than Forrester, IDC, or other boutique research organisations.

The existing LiveTV distribution units would not provide suitable wiring for 110V. Perhaps USB 5V connectors would be possible, but would require a custom install and would not support laptop or large tablet charging. Basically, a tear-down of the cabin would be the only reasonable approach to installing power to each seat.

I was thinking of future installations, so this wouldn't be an issue. My guess is that WS will ride out the existing LiveTV for awhile yet, and just change what they do in new aircraft.

Basically, a tear-down of the cabin would be the only reasonable approach to installing power to each seat.

When you replace the IFE system, will you not be tearing down the cabin of each legacy aircraft???

To get the fuel savings out of the new IFE system, the old seats and IFE will have to be removed along with all the wiring etc. At this time of conversion, WS could add power to each seat along with the wiring.

When you replace the IFE system, will you not be tearing down the cabin of each legacy aircraft???

To get the fuel savings out of the new IFE system, the old seats and IFE will have to be removed along with all the wiring etc. At this time of conversion, WS could add power to each seat along with the wiring.
The details haven't been worked out (as Gregg pointed out in the press, there are multiple vendors being reviewed, the selected vendor will influence timelines and re-fit), but the boxes at each seat triplet and the seat back screens can be removed without removing the seats and the interior panels, leaving the old wiring disconnected but still in place, saving about 400kg of weight (about 100kg of wiring left in place). What replaces the hole where the screen was or how the seat is reworked is another question, but the old analog screens will not work in any meaningful way with any current IFE implementation.

Over time there may be a possibility of putting power at each seat, but I don't think a business case is viable to do this without a need to also do a cabin refit at that point in time.