Flying Blue (Air France, KLM, and Other Partners) - dreaming for an upgrade

Leaving DTW to CDG next Friday,
I'm Delta Gold, wife is Silver.
We are booked in PV and noticed a lot of empty J space at this point.
Wondering if and when AF opens J for upgrades?
I was previously told to check within 24hrs of departure as they may free up some J in this window.
Booked the PV seats in I believe A and was told if upgrade was available in it would cost 25k in Skymiles.
Just wondering if there are any other recommendations on how to snag the elusive J upgrade... or am I just dreaming....

Leaving DTW to CDG next Friday,
I'm Delta Gold, wife is Silver.
We are booked in PV and noticed a lot of empty J space at this point.
Wondering if and when AF opens J for upgrades?
I was previously told to check within 24hrs of departure as they may free up some J in this window.
Booked the PV seats in I believe A and was told if upgrade was available in it would cost 25k in Skymiles.
Just wondering if there are any other recommendations on how to snag the elusive J upgrade... or am I just dreaming....

I'm sorry to say that AF told me last week that A is not upgradeable, unless you pay an extra fee for changing it to a upgradeable fare.

I'm sorry to say that AF told me last week that A is not upgradeable, unless you pay an extra fee for changing it to a upgradeable fare.

This is correct. PV upgradable fares are S and W.

You can only hope for an operational upgrade if PV and Y are overbooked. To give you a little hope as it is easter vacation now in Europe (not sure about US) the planes are quite full in Y usually and less crowded in J. On the other side Friday evening flight is usually quite full in J out of DTW from my past experience.

The most common way to upgrade now is to receive a message from AF offering you to upgrade for (little) cash. You then reply if you are interested and AF will call you if they do have opportunities.
AF do not have programs to facilitate upgrade with miles by elite members as common on US airlines. They only allow it on the most expensive fares and it costs a lot of miles (compared to simply booking an award in J).
Free Opup process is mysterious and with AF new policy of offering upgrades for cash to selected pax, the probability of free opups are small.
However, during holidays flights are overbooked in Y and low load in premium cabins, so you stand a better chance of opup or paid upgrade.

AF do not have programs to facilitate upgrade with miles by elite members as common on US airlines. They only allow it on the most expensive fares and it costs a lot of miles (compared to simply booking an award in J).


But they do allow upgrading from S and W fares with partner program miles. (and not just DL miles, it's part of the published SkyTeam Upgrade Program). With DL miles, it's 15K each way for TATL, which is a pretty good deal. There are even some tricks to get cheaper PV fares upgraded, but I think if the OP booked into an AF A fare, the only hope is to get an offer for a paid upgrade or an op-up.

But they do allow upgrading from S and W fares with partner program miles. (and not just DL miles, it's part of the published SkyTeam Upgrade Program). With DL miles, it's 15K each way for TATL, which is a pretty good deal. There are even some tricks to get cheaper PV fares upgraded, but I think if the OP booked into an AF A fare, the only hope is to get an offer for a paid upgrade or an op-up.

The Skyteam upgrade program can only be used on full fare Y, which for AF translates into Y, S, W.
Are you sure that the upgrade is only 15K with DL miles? I think that it is more for FB miles (but the upgrade info is not published). And the OP mentioned 25K.

The Skyteam upgrade program can only be used on full fare Y, which for AF translates into Y, S, W.
Are you sure that the upgrade is only 15K with DL miles? I think that it is more for FB miles (but the upgrade info is not published). And the OP mentioned 25K.
It's definitely 15K SkyMiles to upgrade W or S on AF to O, as shown here (http://www.delta.com/skymiles/use_miles/award_upgrade_mileage/delta_upgrade_awards/index.jsp). There are numerous reports of people doing it on the DL forum. Some agents have broken the rules and upgraded A and charged 25K for doing it since it's a cheaper fare, but that seems to either be stopped at the ticket reissue or the reissue goes through and a follow-up question about the mileage level gets 10K refunded. Upgrading BM on DL to Z or BMU on KL to U takes 25K miles (15K for Y), so maybe the agent isn't used to doing upgrades from PV and just quoted the TATL upgrade mileage.

This may be mis-information but was told by my T/A that since it is A fare class the upgrade if available would be 25k skymiles not the lower 15k Not so sure now as
I am hearing A is not upgradable....

The most common way to upgrade now is to receive a message from AF offering you to upgrade for (little) cash. You then reply if you are interested and AF will call you if they do have opportunities.


This is the second time I am hearing about this, yet this never happened to me.
Is it really now "the most common way"?
Do you have to sing up somewhere to receive these emails?

It's definitely 15K SkyMiles to upgrade W or S on AF to O, as shown here (http://www.delta.com/skymiles/use_miles/award_upgrade_mileage/delta_upgrade_awards/index.jsp). There are numerous reports of people doing it on the DL forum. Some agents have broken the rules and upgraded A and charged 25K for doing it since it's a cheaper fare, but that seems to either be stopped at the ticket reissue or the reissue goes through and a follow-up question about the mileage level gets 10K refunded. Upgrading BM on DL to Z or BMU on KL to U takes 25K miles (15K for Y), so maybe the agent isn't used to doing upgrades from PV and just quoted the TATL upgrade mileage.

Thanks. Remember that a "free" Biz award is 50K and you can only upgrade with miles when a free award seat is available. Unless it is the company paying for the expensive PV fare, an award in J seems to me more attractive than an upgrade.

This may be mis-information but was told by my T/A that since it is A fare class the upgrade if available would be 25k skymiles not the lower 15k Not so sure now as
I am hearing A is not upgradable....
I'd say the TA is misinformed, since there is nothing published about A being upgradable. Doesn't hurt to try if there is upgrade space, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

This may be mis-information but was told by my T/A that since it is A fare class the upgrade if available would be 25k skymiles not the lower 15k Not so sure now as
I am hearing A is not upgradable....

next time make sure you buy the Delta W-fare and not the AF A-fare, then it is easy to upgrade once AF opens up the O bucket.

When we booked this, checked out delta and did not see a way to book
PV on delta using AF as a codeshare. Finally had my T/A book it thru AF
Hate when I can't do something myself.

When we booked this, checked out delta and did not see a way to book
PV on delta using AF as a codeshare. Finally had my T/A book it thru AF
Hate when I can't do something myself.

Search for W-class or higher on Delta.com or go to e.g. Expedia and use prem eco as the search criteria. Should be available in all TATL markets.

Search for W-class or higher on Delta.com or go to e.g. Expedia and use prem eco as the search criteria. Should be available in all TATL markets.
Sometime you have to tell DL.dumb how to route it using multi-city, as otherwise it just throws up its hands and returns discounted business tickets.

Sometime you have to tell DL.dumb how to route it using multi-city, as otherwise it just throws up its hands and returns discounted business tickets.

If I book W then I use Expedia. Dulta.dumb is not always cooperating.

Free upgrade on AF? hahahaha very funny...:D

It appears there is a bit of mis information out there.
Phoned AF yesterday am and spoke of course to a DL agent.
I explained I have an A fare in PV and want to use DL miles for upgrade if space opens up. Currently there are 12 J seats showing open for Fridays flight.
She said she could do it for 25k but AF had not opened up the space. Was
instructed to call back later as she thought they would start opening up
space.
Called last evening spoke to another agent, space had been opened but this agent said the A fare did not allow me to upgrade with miles period.
Told her the previous agent said she could do it for 25k but space was not yet open. Was put on hold for about 5 min as they had a discussion with supervisor and was then told there was no way for them to upgrade the A fare. However I was told to try at the gate??
I'm going to try one more time with the DL medallion line to see if there is something they can try. I suspect nothing at this point.
Looks like we'll be in PV. I'm going to have a word or 2 with my TA since she told me this was an upgradable fare.

You should have done it the other way around :)
First ask on FT, then book with TA.
But the info that A fares are not upgradable is very public.

You should have done it the other way around :)
First ask on FT, then book with TA.
But the info that A fares are not upgradable is very public.
+1

You used to be able to upgrade A fares, but that stopped about a year ago. Of course, I've got three flights coming up where I booked a fare equal in price to an A fare and managed to upgrade with my DL SWUs :D

AF only introduced its PE recently. And the whole fare lettering was changed not so long ago. So there might have been some confusion in the early days.
But A fare is the cheapest fare in PV. Sometimes other S fares are not much more expensive, but they are not "equal".

You should have done it the other way around :)
First ask on FT, then book with TA.
But the info that A fares are not upgradable is very public.

Lesson learned, FT first!!:) T/A second....:(
We have 3 hrs in DTW so the Sky Club will get my attitude properly adjusted for the PV seats but I'm still going to see what happens at the gate....

...but I'm still going to see what happens at the gate....

If gate is staffed by DL agents, you will be politely declined. If gate is staffed by AF agents, you will be rudely declined.:p

I blame your TA who started this chain of misinformation.

Sounds like a rule change is part of my issue??
Our tickets were purchased last August. I'm wondering if A was still upgradable then and if so would there be an arguement for it being "grandfathered in"?
I know this is all unlikely but may be worth a shot...

Sounds like a rule change is part of my issue??
Our tickets were purchased last August. I'm wondering if A was still upgradable then and if so would there be an arguement for it being "grandfathered in"?
I know this is all unlikely but may be worth a shot...

You might get opuped at the gate, but not upgraded with miles.

Sounds like a rule change is part of my issue??
Our tickets were purchased last August. I'm wondering if A was still upgradable then and if so would there be an arguement for it being "grandfathered in"?
I know this is all unlikely but may be worth a shot...

Last August means August 2011? :confused: IIRC, it was changed in late 2010.

You can also take a look at a recent thread.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/flying-blue-air-france-klm-other-partners/1331009-booking-correct-fare-class-upgrade.html

Just looked at DL.com as they show the seat map. As of now
Y appears to be barely 1/2 full, PV is 2/3 full and J is 2/3 full
I don't think an OPUP is in the cards.
Thanks to all of you who responded to my questions, I'll go back to my plan of attitude adjustment in the DL lounge for the 3 hr DTW layover and tough out the PV seats.

AF only introduced its PE recently. And the whole fare lettering was changed not so long ago. So there might have been some confusion in the early days.
But A fare is the cheapest fare in PV. Sometimes other S fares are not much more expensive, but they are not "equal".
I didn't say I booked an S fare, I said I booked a fare equal in price to an AF A fare and upgraded with my DL SWU. You might have a peek at a fare search in EF for AF and DL on something like JFK-CDG to see what fare bucket (singular) DL uses for PV on AF flights and how there's almost always a fare starting with that letter published to correspond to every AF PV fare, regardless of A, S, or W.

If gate is staffed by DL agents, you will be politely declined. If gate is staffed by AF agents, you will be rudely declined.:p



I must admit I have extremely rarely met rude AF gate agents (few rude DL agents too but some incompetent ones).

I didn't say I booked an S fare, I said I booked a fare equal in price to an AF A fare and upgraded with my DL SWU. You might have a peek at a fare search in EF for AF and DL on something like JFK-CDG to see what fare bucket (singular) DL uses for PV on AF flights and how there's almost always a fare starting with that letter published to correspond to every AF PV fare, regardless of A, S, or W.

That is all very mysterious :)
But this is the FB forum. No doubt that DL program has different characteristics and might be better in many respects. But one cannot use FB miles to book awards on SM.

The most common way to upgrade now is to receive a message from AF offering you to upgrade for (little) cash. You then reply if you are interested and AF will call you if they do have opportunities.


I will be flying AF347 YUL-CDG Sunday June 17th on the A380 with a deep discount economy ticket. Delta Platinum flying with my non-status wife the day after we get married (economics did not allow us to purchase business class unfortunately). In the event economy is oversold, what kind of money might AF want for paid upgrades at the airport? Would my Skyteam Elite+ help? A few hundred $? Would they likely offer economy to business or only economy to premium economy?

I will be flying AF347 YUL-CDG Sunday June 17th on the A380 with a deep discount economy ticket. Delta Platinum flying with my non-status wife the day after we get married (economics did not allow us to purchase business class unfortunately). In the event economy is oversold, what kind of money might AF want for paid upgrades at the airport? Would my Skyteam Elite+ help? A few hundred $? Would they likely offer economy to business or only economy to premium economy?

Like Brunos said the best chances for an upgrade offer are when AF contacts you. This is done by email, so make sure your email address is registered with your booking (check your booking on the AF site). If available, they may (or may not) offer you an upgrade, often at a fair price, and then you accept or do nothing. After you've accepted there is no guarantee yet. You'll have to wait until you get the go-ahead from AF.

General impression is that upgrade deal offers are arbitrary and not linked to status. Upgrade offers directly from Y to J are certainly.

Buying upgrades at the check in counter is technically possible, but on't count on any deals there.

In any case: don't count on it. Then you have two possible outcomes. Be surprised, or not be disappointed :)