United MileagePlus (Consolidated) - USA-FRA in LH F and/or UA F

Greetings FTers! I'm a longtime lurker/enjoyer of this site, but this is my first post. :)

I'm taking a trip this Saturday from FRA to IAD, returning the following Saturday, using 135K miles from my MileagePlus account for a round-trip Saver First award. My only other experience with international premium travel has been a couple of rides in AA F (nice, but not mind-blowing), so I'm really looking forward to this trip as an opportunity to see what the Star Alliance has to offer.

My sense from reading through the threads here is that I'm likely to get the old LH F on just about any FRA-IAD routing I try, but I have a pretty good shot at the new UA F. It seems like the general consensus here is that the new UA F hard product is top notch, while the LH F hard product is dated but made up for with a soft product that is one of the best in the biz. True?

Right now I am planning the outbound flight as FRA-ZRH-IAD. There didn't seem to be any Saver First awards available on LH metal that day, so I went with an LX A320 connecting to a UA 763 with the new UA F. Won't get access to the FCL in FRA or ZRH, but should still get into Senator Lounges in both places. Not sure if there is an arrivals lounge at IAD.

Return flight would be IAD-MUC on an LH 333 with (I assume) the old LH F. I'd rather go into FRA, but there didn't seem to be any Saver First availability that day. At least going into MUC I should be able to get into the FCL there on arrival. Not as sure about lounge access at IAD, though...looks like the LH lounges close hours before the MUC flight departs at 10pm, and it's not clear what other lounge would be available.

So, that gives me a trans-atlantic ride in both UA F and LH F, with some time in the LH/LX Senator and FCLs. No UA lounges unless there's something open late at IAD that I'm missing, but from what I've read here I'm not missing much anyway.

Would be interested to know if folks here think this is a good routing, or if there's a different option that would give me a better premium experience in terms of both lounges and in-flight service. I made *A Gold a few days ago, so will have that status on the trip (but no card) if that matters. Thanks in advance!

Paladin12

I would take old LH F over new UA F. Sure, UA has a glitzier seat, but I've always found LH F to be easy to sleep on.

Check LX routings as well. That would top the others. Availability via YUL or BOS is often plentiful.

"Old" LH or new, I'd book that in a heartbeat, just for the FRA lounge experience.

"Old" LH or new, I'd book that in a heartbeat, just for the FRA lounge experience.

Not to mention the caviar and JW Blue, neither of which have been found anywhere near a UA First cabin in about two decades.

I would take old LH F over new UA F. Sure, UA has a glitzier seat, but I've always found LH F to be easy to sleep on.


Westbound I agree - LH service + FCL is a no-brainer.

However eastbound, I'll always take United for one simple reason - LH insists on keeping the cabin temp on overnights hotter than a finnish sauna, to the point where sleep is nearly impossible for me. Yes, I've asked them to turn it down...and I think it might go down 1/2 a degree.

If I have your dates right, you want to go from FRA to IAD on Saturday April 21.

There is LH F available for FRA to BOS (744) and FRA to EWR (346). There is also US domestic F from both BOS and EWR to IAD. That will get you LH FCL/FCT access.

There is LX F available for ZRH to MIA (333) on that day. There is also UA domestic F fomr MIA to IAD (but a 1 hour connection).

For the return, I see you can get either an LH 744 or 343. I agree with ironmanjt that LH keeps their cabins warmer than UA. But I haven't had it too hot to sleep.

In the end, that will be up to you. If you don't like a warm airplane cabin, don't take LH.

Update:

I tried to duplicate the research via KVS and the award availability on the UA site may be bogus. I see LH FRA->EWR but I do not see FRA->BOS or ZRH->MIA as available on KVS.

If I have your dates right, you want to go from FRA to IAD on Saturday April 21.

There is LH F available for FRA to BOS (744) and FRA to EWR (346). There is also US domestic F from both BOS and EWR to IAD. That will get you LH FCL/FCT access.

There is LX F available for ZRH to MIA (333) on that day. There is also UA domestic F fomr MIA to IAD (but a 1 hour connection).

I'll update this for the return in a couple of minutes.

How are you able to check this availability so easily?

How are you able to check this availability so easily?

The CO .. oops ... UA award search.

I do single segment one way searches.

LH F ^ x100

Westbound I agree - LH service + FCL is a no-brainer.

However eastbound, I'll always take United for one simple reason - LH insists on keeping the cabin temp on overnights hotter than a finnish sauna, to the point where sleep is nearly impossible for me. Yes, I've asked them to turn it down...and I think it might go down 1/2 a degree.

+1 If you are at all bothered by warm cabin temperatures stay away from LH on long haul flights. It's impossible for me to sleep on any LH configuration when the cabin is so warm.

I have never flown LH F but after doing 3 TATLs in UA F during which I was pretty much ignored by the FAs (my water glass left empty and mouthprint/fingerprint-y after 6, 8 10 hrs is just one example; my multiple newspapers being left in my suite for hours, long after I was obviously done with them is another), I would jump at the chance to fly LH F. I have only flown intra-Europe LH biz class (their answer to any American carrier's domestic F) but on those the FAs seemed to show genuine concern as to why I didn't clean my plate; they wanted to know if the food was to my liking or if I felt OK. They hung up my coat before I could even ask, and I was asked about 20 times on a 2hr flight if i needed anything.

I have read about the FRA LH F lounge. the Mercedes or BMW that drives you to the plane, the pajamas that they give you, the empty seat next to you that is yours to use as a buffer or as a separate reading chair before you go to sleep... I could go on but others who posted have actually experienced it. You'll never get anything that comes close on UA.

JUST DO IT!!!!!!! :D

1. Lufthansa
2. Lufthansa
3. Lufthansa

http://sfo777.smugmug.com/Other/Lufthansa/i-c8nNpv9/0/M/P1020568-M.jpg

http://sfo777.smugmug.com/Other/Lufthansa/i-C3QdtcL/0/M/P1040222-M.jpg

http://sfo777.smugmug.com/Other/Lufthansa/i-jJR9zR8/0/M/P1020441-M.jpg

I would do the Lufthansa F in a heartbeat. Having experienced the First Class Terminal for 8 hours on a long layover I can tell you THAT alone is worth the experience.
Additionally the food is better, liquor is better and you are treated with the upmost care.
DO LUFTHANSA. Don't even think about UA F.

LH. Remember, even in the old config, you still get a dedicated sitting seat (which is FAR more comfortable than the UA F seat) and a dedicated bed seat (which while still their old seat, is to me more comfortable than the UA F reclined). Only downside? IFE is poor.

they serve JW blue in LH F?!?!?!?

might have to change my flight next week to LH then.

Thanks for the great advice everyone! I am going to look at my options for switching the outbound journey to LH or even LX (appreciate the MIA tip, cheltzel) so I can access the FCT on the way out. I'll let you know how it works out!

Update: Was able to snag the FRA-ZRH-MIA flight on the outbound, so looking forward to checking out the FCT at FRA, the FCL at ZRH, and a long flight in the new LX F. Couldn't get the award seat from MIA to IAD that night, so decided to stay the night in Miami since I don't really need to be in DC until Monday. Really, really appreciate the advice on that...ended up with a much more awesome weekend than the one I had originally planned. Thanks FT!

Thanks for the great advice everyone! I am going to look at my options for switching the outbound journey to LH or even LX (appreciate the MIA tip, cheltzel) so I can access the FCT on the way out. I'll let you know how it works out!

Update: Was able to snag the FRA-ZRH-MIA flight on the outbound, so looking forward to checking out the FCT at FRA, the FCL at ZRH, and a long flight in the new LX F. Couldn't get the award seat from MIA to IAD that night, so decided to stay the night in Miami since I don't really need to be in DC until Monday. Really, really appreciate the advice on that...ended up with a much more awesome weekend than the one I had originally planned. Thanks FT!

Welcome to Flyertalk!

Please post back to share your experiences.

Update: Was able to snag the FRA-ZRH-MIA flight on the outbound, so looking forward to checking out the FCT at FRA, the FCL at ZRH, and a long flight in the new LX F. Couldn't get the award seat from MIA to IAD that night, so decided to stay the night in Miami since I don't really need to be in DC until Monday. Really, really appreciate the advice on that...ended up with a much more awesome weekend than the one I had originally planned. Thanks FT!

Excellent find. Congrats and enjoy the experience. ^

Thanks for the great advice everyone! I am going to look at my options for switching the outbound journey to LH or even LX (appreciate the MIA tip, cheltzel) so I can access the FCT on the way out. I'll let you know how it works out!

Update: Was able to snag the FRA-ZRH-MIA flight on the outbound, so looking forward to checking out the FCT at FRA, the FCL at ZRH, and a long flight in the new LX F. Couldn't get the award seat from MIA to IAD that night, so decided to stay the night in Miami since I don't really need to be in DC until Monday. Really, really appreciate the advice on that...ended up with a much more awesome weekend than the one I had originally planned. Thanks FT!

I just did LX F (new) and LH F (old) about a month ago. You will not be disappointed in either. LX F seats are super awesome, so many electronic adjustments!
I'm in the middle of writing up a full trip report, but here's a little preview of the LX F seats from my trip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yliibu8Z1ok

I do this route frequently (IAD-FRA in F) and the only reason i did UA metal in the past was to rack up miles towards GS and million mile build up. Every now and then I did LH metal and its a far superior experience because of the
- FC Lounge
- Selection of wines and spirits
- Better appetizers (entrees about the same)

With my desire to fly UA having gone down I am doing LH metal on this route from now on...

Sitting in FRA's Senator Lounge, I just took my first UA flight in "Global First" across the water. I usually choose LH'a product, but I thought I'd give this a try. What a difference!

No access to LH's amazing IFL lounge with jacuzzi tub, no car service, schlepping my stuff from terminal A to B which took forever, and a crowded Senator Lounge waiting for me. I did sleep on UA's bed, but the food and service were so-so and I feel like I wasted an upgrade on a plane with new lieflat business seats. Also, compared to LH which clears the seat next to you, I didn't feel this was very private.

So do people choose UA over LH for the lifetime mileage credit? What's the advantage?

The lifetime mileage credit is now the same anyway. And the days when CR-1s were earned by flying 10,000 miles on UA metal per quarter are gone. The only reason to go with UA that I can think of is the potential ability to confirm your UG in advance.

The separate bed and seat are only on the LH 747s. There are plenty of 340s that fly TATL that do not have this luxury. If you care mostly about a true bed and IFE then you should fly UA...especially the IFE part. LH old F has tiny screens and an even worse selection of movies and TV than UA. But as another poster pointed out, if you only care about a bed and IFE, then just fly the new UA C.

If you are bringing your own IFE and can sleep on an almost flat seat, LH is a no-brainer. I haven't flown LX, but I hear that is also a no-brainer.

The lifetime mileage credit is now the same anyway. And the days when CR-1s were earned by flying 10,000 miles on UA metal per quarter are gone. The only reason to go with UA that I can think of is the potential ability to confirm your UG in advance.

No it's not. Just UA and COPA metal flights count for MM status. *A flights were only included in the recalc.

I'm a fan of LH F service. I like flying LH east and would consider UA flying west. Using the IFL after IAD-FRA while waiting for a connection is fantastic. I've heard good things about LX F, but don't have any personal data points.

Thanks for the great advice everyone! I am going to look at my options for switching the outbound journey to LH or even LX (appreciate the MIA tip, cheltzel) so I can access the FCT on the way out. I'll let you know how it works out!

Update: Was able to snag the FRA-ZRH-MIA flight on the outbound, so looking forward to checking out the FCT at FRA, the FCL at ZRH, and a long flight in the new LX F. Couldn't get the award seat from MIA to IAD that night, so decided to stay the night in Miami since I don't really need to be in DC until Monday. Really, really appreciate the advice on that...ended up with a much more awesome weekend than the one I had originally planned. Thanks FT!

You will love LX FC! I've done LH FC a number of times but just recently did LX FC and it rocked. There's no caviar but the rest of the entire product was stunning. The FA and purser knew it was my first time and so made sure I got to taste everything and try all the different wines I wanted. Everything was great, down to the "adult sized" salt and pepper shakers. LX FC is amazing. Enjoy!

Beware that LX has two different F products. The new F on the A333 and the old F on the A343.

No it's not. Just UA and COPA metal flights count for MM status. *A flights were only included in the recalc.

By golly, you're right. Guess the chances of me making a second million on UA are so slim that I'd stopped paying attention.

I'm a fan of LH F service. I like flying LH east and would consider UA flying west. Using the IFL after IAD-FRA while waiting for a connection is fantastic.

Indeed, but arriving early for a westbound flight, giving yourself as much time in the IFL as you like, and enjoying the LH service without being sleepy is even more fantastic!

I once spent a twelve-hour layover in FRA in the LH First Class Lounge.

I would have happily spent my entire trip there.

For me, the most important thing is the comfort of the seat and ability to sleep on transatlantic birds. I flew LH from ORD to MUC in March and it was the old config A330. Slept well and staff was great. Was not at all overwhelmed by the seat, though. I will be trying UA global first on a 777 in Sept. We will see how it goes.

Beware that LX has two different F products. The new F on the A333 and the old F on the A343.

That's true. But the LX old F, whilst perhaps a little dated, is still very good, with the same 1-2-1 cabin layout and excellent crew, food and drinks. It's much better than (my experience of ) UA old F.

Hard product, I'd say go: New LX F, New LH F, New UA F, Old LX F, Old UA F, Old LH F

Soft Product: LX, LH, UA

Airport experience: LH/LX, especially at FRA

Hard product, I'd say go: New LX F, New LH F, New UA F, Old LX F, Old UA F, Old LH F

Soft Product: LX, LH, UA

Airport experience: LH/LX, especially at FRA

Having done them all, completely agree with Josh, including the fact that he didn't even bother to give UA a rank on airport experience.

+1 to pretty much everything. The UA F seat is much better than the old LH F seat. Also, LH service is great in flight and on the other side of the pond, but the airport service in the U.S. is pretty poor and not as good as UA.

Having done them all, completely agree with Josh, including the fact that he didn't even bother to give UA a rank on airport experience.
It's really incredible how lacking the on-the-ground service is for UA F. I did a nice trip, EWR-FRA-TLV in LH F. Wow. OK, so they only have a Senator Lounge at EWR. Still better than United Club, and on par with some IFL in the UA system. But treatment was great. But granted, EWR is an out-station, and a low one at that.
They have a freakin First Class Terminal! UA, are you listening! They drove me in a limo to the plane! Are you there UA, are you?

I would stay with LH regardless of the old/new 47. As mentioned earlier, the lounge alone is worth it.

I would stay with LH regardless of the old/new 47. As mentioned earlier, the lounge alone is worth it.
New 744 F is awesome! Old F is somewhat lacking, and I prefer the old UA F to the old LH F.
I'm really interested to see the new 748 F. They finally got lie-flat in C (real lie-flat; not angled.)

It's really incredible how lacking the on-the-ground service is for UA F. I did a nice trip, EWR-FRA-TLV in LH F. Wow. OK, so they only have a Senator Lounge at EWR. Still better than United Club, and on par with some IFL in the UA system. But treatment was great. But granted, EWR is an out-station, and a low one at that.
They have a freakin First Class Terminal! UA, are you listening! They drove me in a limo to the plane! Are you there UA, are you?

don't forget really nice single malts and cognacs.
and yes, they carry your briefcase

For me - and I've done both several times- it's a no-brainer. Go LH.

I'd pick UA for business for the seat, but I would not spent a second on this decision for first......

I would stay with LH regardless of the old/new 47. As mentioned earlier, the lounge alone is worth it.

For me - and I've done both several times- it's a no-brainer. Go LH.

+1.

For me - and I've done both several times- it's a no-brainer. Go LH.

I'd pick UA for business for the seat, but I would not spent a second on this decision for first......
I'm not so sure. While I'd take the legacy BF for business over LH or LX, I wouldn't jump to take the PMUA C over LX. A lot depends on what the new C is like.
Also, as work stations go, the LX seat is significantly better than both the PMCO BF seat and the PMUA new C seat.

I'm not so sure. While I'd take the legacy BF for business over LH or LX, I wouldn't jump to take the PMUA C over LX. A lot depends on what the new C is like.
Also, as work stations go, the LX seat is significantly better than both the PMCO BF seat and the PMUA new C seat.

Thought we were discussing LH not LX. I'd take LX business seat (new) over UA or LH anyday...and usually do....

Thought we were talking F. For me, if I was doing it regularly on business I'd take UA and go for the better snoozes in the better seat. If it was only occasionally or for pleasure, I'd go with LH.

I'd do LH. All the way.

In F, the seat/bed is just fine and the service is top notch. And the lounge experience is outstanding.

But if you're into IFE, the old LH F sucks. Its a 5" screen.. not good.

I get to do LH F because of my paper upgrades. So sadly trying LX F remains a distant dream!

I also don't care about IFE when I'm trying to sleep going east. The IFL in FRA is the main reason, along with more personalized service, that I would choose LH. (not the terminal though, there is no jacuzzi jet in that tub! Shhhh).

Thought we were discussing LH not LX. I'd take LX business seat (new) over UA or LH anyday...and usually do....

We had been, but someone mentioned LX, so I mentioned LX. LX only has their new C seat.

One problem with taking European carriers and connecting to a shorthaul in their hub is their shorthaul C.

I'd do LH. All the way.

In F, the seat/bed is just fine and the service is top notch. And the lounge experience is outstanding.

But if you're into IFE, the old LH F sucks. Its a 5" screen.. not good.

I'd only do LH in F. In C, not until their 748 comes out. I just don't like the angled seat.

Hi all, just a quick thank you for all the great advice. The trip was incredible, and I've posted a trip report in the Miles & More forum.

Hi all, just a quick thank you for all the great advice. The trip was incredible, and I've posted a trip report in the Miles & More forum.

How was the cabin temperature? I've flown LH a number of times both east and westbound. Although a number of my earlier flights were quite stuffy and warm, the last two roundtrips -- three flights on A340-600s and one on 744 and all in F -- the cabin was actually comfortable and not the "usual" LH warm cabin.

Uncomfortably warm in both directions, unfortunately. Both flights were A330.