Practical Travel Safety Issues - USA Today.com - TSA tests ID scanning machines at IAD




WillCAD
Apr 14, 12, 12:05 pm
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2012/04/tsa-security-scan-identification-boarding-passes/671390/1

I guess we all knew or suspected this was coming.

Just another ridiculous waste of taxpayer money on machines to fix a problem created by incompetent TSOs who are not able to do a job that isn't needed in the first place, namely Travel Document Checker.

I wonder if any former TSA or DHS bigwigs have any involvement with the company that manufactures and sells these machines?


chollie
Apr 14, 12, 12:18 pm
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2012/04/tsa-security-scan-identification-boarding-passes/671390/1

I guess we all knew or suspected this was coming.

Just another ridiculous waste of taxpayer money on machines to fix a problem created by incompetent TSOs who are not able to do a job that isn't needed in the first place, namely Travel Document Checker.

I wonder if any former TSA or DHS bigwigs have any involvement with the company that manufactures and sells these machines?

And how exactly is this making my flight safer? (rhetorical question)

Xyzzy
Apr 14, 12, 12:19 pm
The first 30 machines cost $3.2 million, Soule said. Three companies – BAE Systems Information Solutions, Trans Digital Technologies and NCR Government Systems -- provided the initial machines that were customized for the TSA.So these things cost m:(re than $100k per machine. At that price its' far cheaper to hire a few more of the thousands standing around to perform this unnecessary job.


Ysitincoach
Apr 14, 12, 1:08 pm
Betcha dime and dollar that their new fancy machines can't read a DHS>CBP>NEXUS card!

jkhuggins
Apr 14, 12, 1:18 pm
So these things cost m:(re than $100k per machine. At that price its' far cheaper to hire a few more of the thousands standing around to perform this unnecessary job.

To be fair ... that cost probably includes the development costs. One would hope that further units would cost less, as economies of scale come into play.

goalie
Apr 14, 12, 2:17 pm
Now being a machine-oops, I meant a computer this prompts me to wonder will the information be stored or not.....

The computer scans the materials and checks to make sure such security features as holograms and bar codes are present.
The passengers' information from the ID and boarding pass is displayed on the computer screen, along with their photo scanned from their ID. The machine compares all the data collected from the front and back of the ID and the boarding pass. If everything matches, the TSA agent is then prompted to allow the passenger to proceed.

But wait, the TSA says.....

The machines do not save the information collected once the agent clears the data to advance to the next passenger,

Now where have I heard that before? ;)

But you would think that with our tax dollars hard at work making lobbyists rich, you would think that this very basic part would/should be included as this is the only part of this mishegas that makes any sense and should be done :rolleyes:

passenger data is not checked against any watch lists or other databases.

Combat Medic
Apr 14, 12, 2:19 pm
It the machine does the comparing, why do we need the TDC?

Ysitincoach
Apr 14, 12, 2:39 pm
It the machine does the comparing, why do we need the TDC?

They need someone to break the machines!

Flaflyer
Apr 14, 12, 2:47 pm
The machine compares all the data collected from the front and back of the ID and the boarding pass.

A Driving License (the most common ID TSA sees for domestic flights, guessing probably 95% of ordinary pax) does not contain a frequent flyer number, ticket number, airline name, destination, flight number, flight date, gate number, boarding time, passenger record number, elite status, cabin class or seat number.

A boarding pass does not contain an address, photo, gender, date of birth (unless TSA starts requiring this secure fright stuff on every BP), DL number, name of state where a person's DL was issued, or categories of motor vehicles a person is authorized to operate by their license to drive.

They say :rolleyes: the machines will be stand alone devices not hooked to any datbases to get and compare such info.

That leaves only the NAME to compare. First, Middle Last, perhaps in a different order on the two items.

TSA is admitting the TDCs cannot do this mentally, after reading the name off both the BP and ID, because they want to buy a machine to compare the names.

Why not just hire some TDCs who can read and process three words mentally? :rolleyes:

chollie
Apr 14, 12, 3:07 pm
It the machine does the comparing, why do we need the TDC?

To do the magic squiggles and ask you to say your name out loud....

Xyzzy
Apr 14, 12, 3:24 pm
To be fair ... that cost probably includes the development costs. One would hope that further units would cost less, as economies of scale come into play.If they'd started at Amazon they'd find a g:rolleyes::rolleyes:d start for about $600 (http://www.amazon.com/CSSN-Id-Scan-License-Portable/dp/B000H1SNE2). Bars have been using these things for years.

OnTheAsile
Apr 14, 12, 3:43 pm
But wait, the TSA says.....
Quote:
The machines do not save the information collected once the agent clears the data to advance to the next passenger,
Quote:
passenger data is not checked against any watch lists or other databases.


I am waiting for someone to indicate that the machines have the capability to instantaneously SEND the scanned data to another facility where it will THEN be DECODED, SAVED and EVALUATED by ANOTHER agency.
Possibly to the National Security Agencies multi-billion dollar data center being built in Bluffdale UT.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1
.

jkhuggins
Apr 14, 12, 6:05 pm
If they'd started at Amazon they'd find a g:rolleyes::rolleyes:d start for about $600 (http://www.amazon.com/CSSN-Id-Scan-License-Portable/dp/B000H1SNE2). Bars have been using these things for years.

And I'd be surprised if those bar-friendly machines recognized a Nexus card ... which every FTer knows is the ultimate ID to use at a checkpoint. ;)

But your main point --- the "not invented here" syndrome --- is not without merit.

Caradoc
Apr 14, 12, 6:37 pm
And I'd be surprised if those bar-friendly machines recognized a Nexus card ... which every FTer knows is the ultimate ID to use at a checkpoint. ;)

Minor software update.

The bigger problem is that Chertoff and the other ex-TSA carpetbaggers don't have their finger in that pie, so it can't happen.

exerda
Apr 14, 12, 7:57 pm
What a freaking waste of money.

It is also going to slow down the checkpoints even more. :mad:

cordelli
Apr 14, 12, 10:51 pm
A Driving License (the most common ID TSA sees for domestic flights, guessing probably 95% of ordinary pax) does not contain a frequent flyer number, ticket number, airline name, destination, flight number, flight date, gate number, boarding time, passenger record number, elite status, cabin class or seat number.

A boarding pass does not contain an address, photo, gender, date of birth (unless TSA starts requiring this secure fright stuff on every BP), DL number, name of state where a person's DL was issued, or categories of motor vehicles a person is authorized to operate by their license to drive.

They say :rolleyes: the machines will be stand alone devices not hooked to any datbases to get and compare such info.

That leaves only the NAME to compare. First, Middle Last, perhaps in a different order on the two items.

TSA is admitting the TDCs cannot do this mentally, after reading the name off both the BP and ID, because they want to buy a machine to compare the names.

Why not just hire some TDCs who can read and process three words mentally? :rolleyes:

While I also believe the machines are a total waste of money, they will do more then compare the names on the documents. They will compare the name on the front of the id to what's on the stripe or barcode on the back. It supposedly will also compare any other information on the front that is encoded on the back, and will supposedly verify that the ID is real. It will also compare everything in the barcode on the boarding pass to what's printed on the boarding pass, which will end the ability to photoshop a different name on the boarding pass to get somebody else through security.

Of course, all of that could be done with a simple scanner that's very commonly used at hotels, bars, etc costing a few hundred dollars per unit, and reading the text on the front and comparing it to what the scanner displays. But as we all know, the TSA has proven it can't match a name on a boarding pass to that on a license on more than one occasion, so they need to spend a fortune on new hardware and software to do it for them.

And I'd be surprised if those bar-friendly machines recognized a Nexus card


The specs for the machines and the initial stories about them quote TSA people as saying they will read Nexus cards. It's actually been pretty funny over the months since they were announced, some people have commented on the stories to be just like the current system they should randomly reject Nexus cards half the time for no valid reason.

saulblum
Apr 14, 12, 11:39 pm
It will also compare everything in the barcode on the boarding pass to what's printed on the boarding pass, which will end the ability to photoshop a different name on the boarding pass to get somebody else through security.

Except that the bar code is fairly simple to reverse-engineer.

http://shaun.net/blog/whats-contained-in-a-boarding-pass-barcode/

Again, millions of dollars thrown at solving a non-existent problem.

Ari
Apr 15, 12, 12:29 am
I recall reading that the codes used in boarding passes of passengers using Pre✓ are encrypted. Someone should check see what a Pre✓ boarding pass barcode shows.

Ysitincoach
Apr 15, 12, 5:37 am
This isn't about bad or not so bright TDCs, this isn't about security, or better ID technology....this is typical federal government.

They just spent millions on body scanners, and they need to spend millions more on other technologies, or Congress doesn't give them an increased budget next year. It's simply the same bureaucratic Washington budget politics we see at every agency.

So once these are installed at every airport, and ultimately prove to be yet another TSA technology failure, see puffer machines, they'll roll out yet another consultant conceived innovation and grease the wheels of the former directors' and managers' various consulting firms.

FliesWay2Much
Apr 15, 12, 6:39 am
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9650; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.8+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.719 Mobile Safari/534.8+)

Where is the privavcy impact assessment they are supposed to publish?

mules
Apr 15, 12, 7:43 am
This makes me wonder if it is in any way connected to that $248 million dollar contract that MorphoTrust just got. I bet we are edging, closer to having a national ID for domestic travel. (Coming from a raging liberal, I feel this is crazy talk, but FT has made me aware of the web of government contracts.)

From their press release:
"MorphoTrust currently provides driver license issuance solutions to 41 of the 50 states and the District of Columbia; the facial recognition solution for the FBI’s Next Generation Identity program; and the multi-modal biometric software for the Department of Defense (DoD) Enterprise."

The company delivers solutions for secure ID issuance, such as U.S. driver licenses and passports, as well as for border management, law enforcement, retail, travel and applicant vetting through the use of document authentication, data verification and biometrics (iris, fingerprints and face).

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tsa-selects-morphotrust-usa-to-give-applicants-the-convenience-of-one-stop-shops-for-enrollment-services-2012-04-10

Global_Hi_Flyer
Apr 15, 12, 10:01 am
Just lovely. More delays at IAD, and more "copping an attitude" by the screeners.

patom
Apr 15, 12, 12:14 pm
What a freaking waste of money.

It is also going to slow down the checkpoints even more. :mad:

Wasting money is the one and only thing TSA does well.

GUWonder
Apr 15, 12, 2:45 pm
How many of the companies that got this TSA deal have violated the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act? At least one is guaranteed to be corrupt/corruptive.

The corrupt doing business at the expense of ordinary Americans -- this is yet another example.

cordelli
Apr 15, 12, 2:51 pm
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9650; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.8+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.719 Mobile Safari/534.8+)

Where is the privavcy impact assessment they are supposed to publish?

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/privacy/privacy_pia_tsa_catbpss.pdf

Bob linked it from a blog post in October.

GUWonder
Apr 15, 12, 2:56 pm
There are many currently TSA-acceptable IDs that cannot be verified as real by the contractors' systems -- this won't be but a waste except to further monitor and control non-terrorists, ineffective as it will be.

wayan
Apr 16, 12, 6:28 am
This morning it was training day at Dulles with a new ID scanner. I took a pic here: http://flickr.com/photos/dcmetroblogger/7083596541/

What do you make of it? Will it close the fake boarding pass loophole? Or speed up the security theatre process at all?

bsmnsr
Apr 16, 12, 6:41 am
I wonder what it's using to validate the IDs - just matching Itineraries to IDs or if it's also verifying IDs against a database of valid State/Federal IDs. Anything that speed up the process is appreciated.

palmetto86
Apr 16, 12, 6:46 am
Another million dollar toy for the idiots...:rolleyes:

kenn0223
Apr 16, 12, 7:09 am
That thing costs about $100k. It's intended to check for security flaws in the ID. From this article http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2012-04-15/TSA-tests-airport-check-in-system/54302024/1 it seems like it just uses the information off the BP (Barcode and/or text) and ID vs. pulling from some database and "deletes" all the information once the pax is cleared.

It seems just like another easter egg hut as defined by ex-TSA Chief Kip Hawley:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303815404577335783535660546.html

kokonutz
Apr 16, 12, 7:16 am
Oy, one more reason to choose DCA over IAD.

bsmnsr
Apr 16, 12, 8:08 am
Here's another article on the topic.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120416/FEATURES07/120416010/TSA-tests-airport-check-in-system

cordelli
Apr 16, 12, 8:34 am
I wonder what it's using to validate the IDs - just matching Itineraries to IDs or if it's also verifying IDs against a database of valid State/Federal IDs. Anything that speed up the process is appreciated.

At this time it's supposedly not connected to outside database.

It compares the written text to the coded information in the barcode, stripe, etc. It supposedly checks for the security feature of the ID like the ones at bars that use them (that cost way less money). It also compares the information in the barcode on the boarding pass to the printed information on the boarding pass, and compares the information on the ID to that on the boarding pass.

It's supposed to detect a fake ID, an altered ID (unless you alter the barcode/stripe too), and an altered boarding pass, and prevent the ID checker from not noticing the ID and Boarding Pass are not to the same person.

VelvetJones
Apr 16, 12, 9:03 am
Except that the bar code is fairly simple to reverse-engineer.

http://shaun.net/blog/whats-contained-in-a-boarding-pass-barcode/

Again, millions of dollars thrown at solving a non-existent problem.

There is nothing to reverse engineer. Most DLs use an standard encoding method. It is a published standard. In the TSAs defense, they're not the only stupid government agency who has fell for this BS. For some reason state and federal bureaucrats think the front of an ID, with the various layers of holograms and other anti-counterfeit devices, are easy to fake, but a simply bar code or magnetic strip and the back is completely tamper proof and impossible to fake. This speaks volumes about the intelligence and technical competence of the people in charge of these agencies.

spd476
Apr 16, 12, 9:11 am
How long will it be before there is a news story about someone missing a flight because one of these machines incorrectly says an ID or boarding pass is not valid? Even though an ID is not technically needed to fly, I can see some TDC's making it difficult to get through security if the machine malfunctions. Talk about an expensive solution to a problem that doesn't exist. As long as everyone is screened properly, who cares if bad people are on the flight.

Global_Hi_Flyer
Apr 16, 12, 9:43 am
How long will it be before there is a news story about someone missing a flight because one of these machines incorrectly says an ID or boarding pass is not valid?

Or wrongfully arrested.

FliesWay2Much
Apr 16, 12, 11:01 am
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/privacy/privacy_pia_tsa_catbpss.pdf

Bob linked it from a blog post in October.

After several statements that the system "is not configured" to store personal information, there is this gem in section 9:

The system is not configured to store or retain passengers’ documents or passengers’ PII. The CAT/BPSS is designed to be network compatible for future expansion, however, in its current implementation it is not connected to any network. If TSA determines that networking of CAT/BPSS devices is required TSA will publish an update to this PIA including a discussion of the privacy risks associated with such a change and the mitigation techniques implemented by TSA.

This doesn't say that the system cannot store information. It says it "is not configured" to store personal information -- a huge difference. With a software command, this system can be networked throughout an airport or even through the TSA.

Remember: The Cancer boxes "aren't configured to store or transmit images" either.

-- More after I review the specs a little more in depth.

FliesWay2Much
Apr 16, 12, 11:05 am
This morning it was training day at Dulles with a new ID scanner. I took a pic here: http://flickr.com/photos/dcmetroblogger/7083596541/

What do you make of it? Will it close the fake boarding pass loophole? Or speed up the security theatre process at all?

Did they still have the clerks 5' behind the ID checking clerks checking IDs a second time?

goalie
Apr 16, 12, 12:09 pm
This newest waste of our tax dollars is already being discussed over here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1335902-usa-today-com-tsa-tests-id-scanning-machines-iad.html

WillCAD
Apr 16, 12, 1:26 pm
After several statements that the system "is not configured" to store personal information, there is this gem in section 9:



This doesn't say that the system cannot store information. It says it "is not configured" to store personal information -- a huge difference. With a software command, this system can be networked throughout an airport or even through the TSA.

Remember: The Cancer boxes "aren't configured to store or transmit images" either.

-- More after I review the specs a little more in depth.

Remember - when the AIT scanners were first deployed, TSA told us flat out that they were incapable of storing or transmitting images.

It was only later, when someone proved them wrong, that they admitted, "Oh, what we meant was that the store/transmit functions are turned off, and they're not capable of storing or transmitting images as long as those functions are turned off."

Today, the ATR software is being deployed. According to articles I've read, the ATR software doesn't work on a finished image, it works on the raw data from the scan.

This makes me wonder is we've been duped yet again - sure, AIT scanners, even those with ATR, never store or transmit the images. But do they store, archive, and transmit the raw data from which the images are formed? Meaning that, at any time, the raw data from any scan could be pulled, run through about 2 seconds of software, and create the image in vivid detail?

I sound paranoid, even to myself, but after the lies, half-truths, lies-by-omission, and intentional deceptions that TSA has pulled over the last few years, I have difficulty trusting anything the agency says, particularly when it comes to safeguarding - or simply not invading - the privacy, rights, and freedoms of the general public.

GUWonder
Apr 16, 12, 2:11 pm
CAT-BPSS info to be found there:

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=094be3b85551788fc172ed004a657576&tab=documents&tabmode=list

The TSA is telling the public that it will speed up things. Of course they said that about the strip search machines too, and there's plenty that shows it wastes more time too.

mikeef
Apr 16, 12, 2:16 pm
Again, millions of dollars thrown at solving a non-existent problem.

As William Randolph Hearst said, "You provide the pictures and I'll furnish the war."

This isn't about bad or not so bright TDCs, this isn't about security, or better ID technology....this is typical federal government.

They just spent millions on body scanners, and they need to spend millions more on other technologies, or Congress doesn't give them an increased budget next year. It's simply the same bureaucratic Washington budget politics we see at every agency.

Why they didn't just get a simple scanner. Oldie (and falsie) but goodie here (http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp).

Mike

wayan
Apr 16, 12, 2:19 pm
And the day has come - here they are in action today, which by the long lines and slow processing, would seem to be the first day in use: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dcmetroblogger/7083596541/in/photostream

GUWonder
Apr 16, 12, 2:32 pm
"Not configured to do ABC" and "not capable to do ABC" are indeed two different things. Re-configuration can be done to turn on capabilities that are already present, at least with other systems.

How are system updates going to be done? Networked (periodical or otherwise) or not?

One of the things the government has been doing to get around privacy rights is to "ignore" backdoors in certain systems that can be used by "trusted" partners -- foreign government or private sector parties -- abroad that then use the network's information to do what the US wants done but cannot be done domestically in a legal manner by the US government directly itself.

Between government offshoring and public-private partnerships, a lot of dirty tricks have been done by governments afraid of transparency necessary for there to be due scrutiny and accountability.

That all ignored for a moment, this is just more money wasted on expensive junk that results in slowing down or hassling people more intentionally -- not a good thing.

ID is not security, and the government needs to get out of the business of hassling free people for ID to merely travel in one's own country.

Critic
Apr 16, 12, 3:44 pm
It's supposed to detect a fake ID, an altered ID (unless you alter the barcode/stripe too), and an altered boarding pass, and prevent the ID checker from not noticing the ID and Boarding Pass are not to the same person.

All of this is wonderful, except that checking for the validity of personal identity documents was never in the TSA's mandate. And even if it were...didn't the 9/11 hijackers travel on GENUINE driver licenses (albeit by fraudulent means, thereby prompting REALID)? So ultimately, were there to be a replay in 2012, neither the TDC nor the machine would have any reason to stop the hijackers from entering the checkpoint.

TSA: Full of Sound & Fury, Signifying Nothing Since 2001.

14940674
Apr 16, 12, 5:15 pm
Are the new machines capable of checking the BP for encoded PreCheck status?

chollie
Apr 16, 12, 5:27 pm
"Not configured to do ABC" and "not capable to do ABC" are indeed two different things. Re-configuration can be done to turn on capabilities that are already present, at least with other systems.

How are system updates going to be done? Networked (periodical or otherwise) or not?

One of the things the government has been doing to get around privacy rights is to "ignore" backdoors in certain systems that can be used by "trusted" partners -- foreign government or private sector parties -- abroad that then use the network's information to do what the US wants done but cannot be done domestically in a legal manner by the US government directly itself.

Between government offshoring and public-private partnerships, a lot of dirty tricks have been done by governments afraid of transparency necessary for their to be due scrutiny and accountability.

That all ignored for a moment, this is just more money wasted on expensive junk that results in slowing down or hassling people more intentionally -- not a good thing.

ID is not security, and the government needs to get out of the business of hassling free people for ID to merely travel in one's own country.

+1 (bolding mine)

The one question our worthless media always fails to ask: how will this improve aviation security?

Answer: It won't. It just adds to the dragnet, catch-all TSA layers and adds to the wallets of former DHS officials and their cronies.

If there's a screening failure at the checkpoint, all the drug busts and 'artfully displayed' purse ornaments and kids' toys and suspicious amounts of cash and water bottles and fake IDs and seized/stolen Ipads - all things that won't take down a plane - aren't going to matter.

And we've already had one major screening failure recently - pounds of clearly labelled explosive that passed both the xray and a hand search at Fayetteville.

But hey, the TDC was on the job, so I guess that's why it all came out OK. :rolleyes:

FlyingHoustonian
Apr 16, 12, 8:10 pm
What bothers me about this (other than the fact it is coming to IAH tomorrow) is the part in the article where they mention "Asking questions" "To resolve an issue".

Don't ask me questions. Could one plead the fifth since the TSA likes to claim they are government agents...?

If you don't answer said questions do you not get to fly? Do they go down BDO land with the questions? That part bothers me the most.

While I agree ID doesn't equal security, I'd prefer a machine if I didn't have to talk to the people. Something like global entry; but the infrastruction is not there (this is presuming the US Gov't kept up with the I.D. charade). I'd of course prefer it to be gone and just have proper screening with no ID checks.

Global_Hi_Flyer
Apr 17, 12, 3:08 pm
All of this is wonderful, except that checking for the validity of personal identity documents was never in the TSA's mandate. And even if it were...didn't the 9/11 hijackers travel on GENUINE driver licenses (albeit by fraudulent means, thereby prompting REALID)? So ultimately, were there to be a replay in 2012, neither the TDC nor the machine would have any reason to stop the hijackers from entering the checkpoint.

TSA: Full of Sound & Fury, Signifying Nothing Since 2001.

This is all because the agency got embarrassed in the media by the gentleman that had several boarding passes.

I recently heard Skeletor speak. Aside from his comment equating activists to terrorists, he also noted that he (and the DHS since him) has gotten whatever money they wanted by making ti clear to Congress that it would be "blood" on the elected official's hands if DHS didn't get what they wanted and something "bad" happened. My take was that the escalation against innocent US citizens will continue until the government goes broke or until there are no more freedoms to take away.

GUWonder
Apr 18, 12, 2:12 am
This is all because the agency got embarrassed in the media by the gentleman that had several boarding passes.

I recently heard Skeletor speak. Aside from his comment equating activists to terrorists, he also noted that he (and the DHS since him) has gotten whatever money they wanted by making ti clear to Congress that it would be "blood" on the elected official's hands if DHS didn't get what they wanted and something "bad" happened. My take was that the escalation against innocent US citizens will continue until the government goes broke or until there are no more freedoms to take away.

The practical result will be as you mention in your last sentence above; however, even as the government is broke the government is still funding this kind of nonsense. This is part contribution to the budget deficit and the national debt that has amounted to 2 trillion to 5 trillion US dollars of expenditures that are a product of the government's reaction to a zealous gang of thugs whose dead leader may as well be fish-food.

stifle
Apr 19, 12, 7:51 am
I recently heard Skeletor speak. Aside from his comment equating activists to terrorists, he also noted that he (and the DHS since him) has gotten whatever money they wanted by making ti clear to Congress that it would be "blood" on the elected official's hands if DHS didn't get what they wanted and something "bad" happened. My take was that the escalation against innocent US citizens will continue until the government goes broke or until there are no more freedoms to take away.

Unfortunately true. Despite the vanishingly small chance of there being an incident :(

txrus
Apr 28, 12, 4:38 am
According to the original USA Today article posted at the top of this thread, these thing were supposed to be implemented this week in SJU. However, this morning @ Terminal D (AA), checkpoint for gates 1-19, no sign of them.

Also early enough thru for WTMD only ^

tkey75
Apr 28, 12, 6:20 am
It has to be so painfully obvious that the ultimate goal of these machines is to track movement. Call me paranoid, but I'm just connecting the dots. The machines are capable of storing and transmitting data collected. All that needs to be done is flip a switch and they're connected. What other possible purpose could there be?

The sad part is, most people will be okay with this.

WillCAD
Apr 28, 12, 7:47 am
It has to be so painfully obvious that the ultimate goal of these machines is to track movement. Call me paranoid, but I'm just connecting the dots. The machines are capable of storing and transmitting data collected. All that needs to be done is flip a switch and they're connected. What other possible purpose could there be?

The sad part is, most people will be okay with this.

Yes, whenever I mention something along those lines, people call me paranoid - "What do I care if the government knows where I am? It's not like I'm a criminal. They can track me if they want, no big deal."

/SARCASM ON
Yup, it's not like the government stores people's personal information on unsecured laptops and loses them.

Nor is it like the government ever intentionally trumps up charges against innocent people due to media attention or political pressures.

Nor is it like the government ever harasses innocent people who haven't broken any laws or harmed anyone.

Nor is it like the government ever wrongly arrests innocent people.

Yeah, our government is completely trustworthy with all of our most personal, private, sensitive information!
/SARCASM OFF

exbayern
Apr 28, 12, 1:29 pm
How long will it be before there is a news story about someone missing a flight because one of these machines incorrectly says an ID or boarding pass is not valid?

I have been detained in past at IAD by the TDC because he did not recognise my form of ID.

It was a German passport, presented at IAD, which is one of the major entry/exit points to the US, frequented by non-US travellers. :rolleyes: It required a trip to the next security station by a second TDC to confirm with his supervisor that 'we accept these things'.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I see this going very well at IAD.

Once again, I strongly suggest that The Last Enemy be recommended viewing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kbqCKe8Ymo

FliesWay2Much
Apr 28, 12, 5:14 pm
I have been detained in past at IAD by the TDC because he did not recognise my form of ID.

It was a German passport, presented at IAD, which is one of the major entry/exit points to the US, frequented by non-US travellers. :rolleyes: It required a trip to the next security station by a second TDC to confirm with his supervisor that 'we accept these things'.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I see this going very well at IAD.

Once again, I strongly suggest that The Last Enemy be recommended viewing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kbqCKe8Ymo

...let alone that there is a permanent German military presence at the same airport on the same tarmac in their very own hanger.

Janus
Apr 29, 12, 3:01 pm
It has to be so painfully obvious that the ultimate goal of these machines is to track movement. Call me paranoid, but I'm just connecting the dots. The machines are capable of storing and transmitting data collected. All that needs to be done is flip a switch and they're connected. What other possible purpose could there be?

The sad part is, most people will be okay with this.

...And that SecureFlight sends your name, DOB, and gender to TSA doesn't bother you? If Big Brother wants to track us, the far simpler solution would be to just store all those Secure Flight queries the airlines do. No need to collect data from ID scanners, they already have all this information being presented to them via Secure Flight.

And if that doesn't crinkle your tin-foil hat, here's another factoid. Long before SecureFlight, airlines would (and still do) provide full flight details to the credit card that purchased the ticket.



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