I'm trying to add 9W domestic segments to my DL award ticket. But there is no way to check the availability since I do not have JP miles. The DL agents also test against a blackbox by hit&try method.
Could someone do me a favor checking these days for award ticket (economy-X or business-D)?
2 seats available in economy....all economy flight....
charms81
Apr 13, 12, 2:55 pm
almost 4 years for your first post charms81....
nothing available here....
only one available in economy, nothing in business....
only one available in economy, nothing in business....
2 seats available in economy....all economy flight....
2 seats available in economy....all economy flight....
Thank you so much for taking time to find all this Keyser. You've been awesome(st) member of FT.. read plenty of your helpful posts and reviews.
I guess I should contribute with my limited knowledge to keep the helpfulness going since I'm feeding off FT as a leecher all these years :).
Keyser
Apr 14, 12, 12:12 am
Thank you so much for taking time to find all this Keyser. You've been awesome(st) member of FT.. read plenty of your helpful posts and reviews.
glad i could help....
jasepl
Apr 14, 12, 6:20 am
...nothing in business.... nothing in business....
It's safe to say that no one should be surprised.
Keyser
Apr 14, 12, 7:39 am
It's safe to say that no one should be surprised.
so true....i could have told charms81 that without even looking....
charms81
Apr 18, 12, 2:53 pm
Hello Keyser,
Would it be possible to look for the award inventory again for these 2 segments? For some reason when Delta is trying to request a ticket, it comes back unconfirmed.
Would it be possible to look for the award inventory again for these 2 segments? For some reason when Delta is trying to request a ticket, it comes back unconfirmed.
Thank you Keyser! Apparently DL was not able to secure any 9W inventory for any dates (it always came as waitlisted and that cannot be ticketed). My primary reason for having 9W on same itinerary was to not have baggage policy issues since 9W does not honor international baggage policies when it is separately ticketed.
I guess I'll need to pay the $150 or Rs.200/kg charge for additional luggage + the ticket rates (which would have been free if it was in same skymiles itinerary).
Btw, DL has terminated skymiles agreement with 9W and IT effective April-15-2012 and hard-stop on Oct-15-2012 (skymiles can only be redeemed on 9W until Oct-15 per DL Rep). So 9W possibly joining Skyteam is probably off the books now.
jasepl
Apr 20, 12, 4:06 am
Btw, DL has terminated skymiles agreement with 9W and IT effective April-15-2012 and hard-stop on Oct-15-2012 (skymiles can only be redeemed on 9W until Oct-15 per DL Rep). So 9W possibly joining Skyteam is probably off the books now.
Yep. Delta's partnership with Jet ends on 15 October (and with IT on 1 Octiber).
I won't be surprised if it's because Delta found Jet to be useless partners, in that there was never any redemption availability on Jet metal. :p
It doesn't necessarily mean joining Jet's SkyTeam is out just because of the FF arrangement coming to a close. But if it does, too bad for Jet. They can continue to sit in limbo. Their own damn fault anyway.
phillystudent
Apr 24, 12, 9:25 am
Out of curiousity, and since you guys seem to know a lot more about this than I do, what would be the incentive for an airline to refrain from joining one of the alliances? I know that joining one would probably reduce their ability to work with other airlines outside the alliance, but wouldn't they make up due to (conceivably) much higher volumes?
PVDtoDEL
Apr 24, 12, 9:57 am
Out of curiousity, and since you guys seem to know a lot more about this than I do, what would be the incentive for an airline to refrain from joining one of the alliances? I know that joining one would probably reduce their ability to work with other airlines outside the alliance, but wouldn't they make up due to (conceivably) much higher volumes?Right, not joining an alliance allows them to work with everyone. As long as there is no other competition that is part of another alliance, 9W basically has the entire international FF market.
If IT or AI join an alliance, then suddenly 9W can't work with their alliance partners. That will make it more advantageous to be an alliance member. As long as everyone in India is unaligned, alliance membership without a ATI/JV type agreement would not be particularly better for 9W.
phillystudent
Apr 24, 12, 10:49 am
Right, not joining an alliance allows them to work with everyone. As long as there is no other competition that is part of another alliance, 9W basically has the entire international FF market.
If IT or AI join an alliance, then suddenly 9W can't work with their alliance partners. That will make it more advantageous to be an alliance member. As long as everyone in India is unaligned, alliance membership without a ATI/JV type agreement would not be particularly better for 9W.
Thanks; that makes sense. Based on that logic, then, the benefit for the other alliance-based airline (say... AA) to partner up with Jet would be the (theoretical) ability for their customers to redeem miles on 9W and also to earn AAdvantage miles when flying on 9W?
PVDtoDEL
Apr 24, 12, 11:06 am
the advantage to AA is that they gain connectivity to the Indian market - a market which they could not serve properly by themselves.
unicon
Apr 24, 12, 12:27 pm
Right, not joining an alliance allows them to work with everyone. As long as there is no other competition that is part of another alliance, 9W basically has the entire international FF market.
If IT or AI join an alliance, then suddenly 9W can't work with their alliance partners. That will make it more advantageous to be an alliance member. As long as everyone in India is unaligned, alliance membership without a ATI/JV type agreement would not be particularly better for 9W.
Actually, that is not necessarily correct. It all depends on the contracts between them. For example, for quite a while DL had a separate partnership with SQ while both of them were ST and *A members respectively.
Thanks; that makes sense. Based on that logic, then, the benefit for the other alliance-based airline (say... AA) to partner up with Jet would be the (theoretical) ability for their customers to redeem miles on 9W and also to earn AAdvantage miles when flying on 9W?
The main benefit of being an alliance member (from the airline's pov) is not mileage earning or redemption. At the very high level, it is capturing more revenue pax to/from destinations served by the partners.
PVDtoDEL
Apr 24, 12, 7:55 pm
Actually, that is not necessarily correct. It all depends on the contracts between them. For example, for quite a while DL had a separate partnership with SQ while both of them were ST and *A members respectively.
Fair enough. It would be harder for 9W, simply because of the alliance pressure, but not impossible.
phillystudent
Apr 24, 12, 8:27 pm
Sorry for the thread hijack with my questions on airlines and alliances, but thank you very much, PVDtoDEL and unicon. The confusion on the subject has been cleared, and I've learned in the process! :)
jasepl
Apr 27, 12, 1:46 am
Jet originally had all alliances asking them to join. But Jet claimed they were akin to Emirates, and so much better than everyone else, they didn't need to stoop that low and join an alliance.
Then AI went Star and IT went oneworld. And suddenly, Jet got a case of the me-toos (that's been happening a lot lately, with every daily injection of reality into Goyal's ego-driven fantasy).
Jet's "hold out for everything" game has backfired on them, and now its about "let's not end up with nothing".
If IT or AI join an alliance, then suddenly 9W can't work with their alliance partners.
What complete garbage.
PVDtoDEL
Apr 27, 12, 2:19 am
What complete garbage.
Not really - for example, when IT was about to join OW, AA was preparing to start routing their intra-India connections on IT instead of 9W. Then AA dropped DEL, so it didn't matter anyway.
Remember this (http://www.flykingfisher.com/media-center/press-releases/kingfisher-airlines-and-american-airlines-announce-comprehensive-codeshare-and-frequent-flyer-relationship.aspx)?
There are other examples of this as well.
jasepl
Apr 27, 12, 2:25 am
Not really - for example, when IT was about to join OW, AA was preparing to start routing their intra-India connections on IT instead of 9W. Then AA dropped DEL, so it didn't matter anyway.
There are other examples of this as well.
That is one example, specific to one situation; there are far more examples to the contrary.
I suppose this definitive conclusion was arrived at by extrapolating?
PVDtoDEL
Apr 27, 12, 2:26 am
That is one example, specific to one situation; there are far more examples to the contrary.
I suppose this definitive conclusion was arrived at by extrapolating?
Care to provide some examples to the contrary if there are so many?
jasepl
Apr 27, 12, 2:28 am
Care to provide some examples to the contrary if there are so many?
Nah... It will be reality-based, so, obviously, worthless. Far better to get it all form a textbook.
PVDtoDEL
Apr 27, 12, 2:31 am
Nah... It will be reality-based, so, obviously, worthless. Far better to get it all form a textbook.
Brilliant.
Call something garbage, and then not be able to provide even one example to the contrary.
phillystudent
Apr 29, 12, 8:52 pm
C''mon folks... no need to go after each other.
Babu
Apr 30, 12, 7:08 am
C''mon folks... no need to go after each other.
+1. While I don't feel the last few posts amount to personal attacks, can we try to keep it cordial, please. I think one of the nicest things about our forum is the camaraderie...
phillystudent
Apr 30, 12, 8:11 am
Back to the topic on hand, I just was able to secure 2 J redemptions on 338 (the 7:15 AM departure) for Friday, November 30th. Try looking at 338 if that's an option - there seems to be some mixed J availability around the end of November, beginning of December.
jasepl
Apr 30, 12, 11:29 pm
Back to the topic on hand, I just was able to secure 2 J redemptions on 338 (the 7:15 AM departure) for Friday, November 30th. Try looking at 338 if that's an option - there seems to be some mixed J availability around the end of November, beginning of December.
Was that using Skymiles (or through another FFP)? Or Jet points?
phillystudent
May 1, 12, 5:53 am
Was that using Skymiles (or through another FFP)? Or Jet points?
JP - I'm trying to liquidate and move out. But wouldn't the D class inventory availability be the same across the board regardless of FFP, or is my understanding incorrect?
charms81
May 1, 12, 6:53 am
JP - I'm trying to liquidate and move out. But wouldn't the D class inventory availability be the same across the board regardless of FFP, or is my understanding incorrect?
Nope, 9W is the worst airline for award redemption. Not only is it worse in terms of award ticket allotment, it also has one of the worst redemption system for partner airlines. So lets say if Delta wants to request a 9W segment, it has to prepare the complete itinerary (with confirmed availability of all other partner airlines segments) and then 'submit' the request to 9W system. 9W system comes back with 'waiting list' or 'confirmed' status in 1 min -2 hrs. This award availability is not in sync with what you see in JPMiles system. So there is no way for a partner to check D/X availability without submitting these blind requests.
Not surprising that DL has fired 9W and IT. 9W doesn't even mention on their website/ press that they are fired from DL!
flyer31
May 1, 12, 7:41 am
Nope, 9W is the worst airline for award redemption. Not only is it worse in terms of award ticket allotment, it also has one of the worst redemption system for partner airlines. So lets say if Delta wants to request a 9W segment, it has to prepare the complete itinerary (with confirmed availability of all other partner airlines segments) and then 'submit' the request to 9W system. 9W system comes back with 'waiting list' or 'confirmed' status in 1 min -2 hrs. This award availability is not in sync with what you see in JPMiles system. So there is no way for a partner to check D/X availability without submitting these blind requests.
Not surprising that DL has fired 9W and IT. 9W doesn't even mention on their website/ press that they are fired from DL!
Not surprising that DL fired 9W.I had a bad experience with them last month while on a award ticket on delta miles. My flight was from LAX-BOM-DEL. The BOM-DEL sector was on jet airways business class. It took a lot of effort and many calls from me to delta and from delta to jet and finally got the confirmation. After reaching BOM and just a few hours before my departure to DEL, while checking my flight status online I realised that Jet cancelled the flight and gave no intimation to me whatsoever. I called them and they would not help as they said they will only speak to Delta. I made international call to delta and spent about an hour with them to get the next flight on Jet to DEL.
phillystudent
May 1, 12, 9:36 am
...and gave no intimation to me whatsoever.
That's really unfortunate... were your contact details on both the PNR's?
jasepl
May 1, 12, 10:20 am
JP - I'm trying to liquidate and move out. But wouldn't the D class inventory availability be the same across the board regardless of FFP, or is my understanding incorrect?
Honestly, I don't know. I gave up trying to figure out how Jet (doesn't) work. My current mission is the same as yours: cash out.
I'm nearly there! Just about 300k to go.
DELANRDFW
May 4, 12, 7:28 am
Can somebody please help me to see if there is any availability 28-29 Aug DEL-LHR on 9w either Bus(D) or First(R)?
Mucho thanks in advance :-)
phillystudent
May 4, 12, 7:33 am
Can somebody please help me to see if there is any availability 28-29 Aug DEL-LHR on 9w either Bus(D) or First(R)?
Mucho thanks in advance :-)
Sure; no problem!
28 AUG: DEL-LHR J Class: 0 Available
29 AUG: DEL-LHR J Class: 0 Available
28 AUG: DEL-LHR F Class: 0 Available
29 AUG: DEL-LHR F Class: 0 Available
Surprising? I don't think so... :(
27 AUG: DEL-LHR J Class: 2 Available
phillystudent
May 4, 12, 7:36 am
Correction: it now shows as 1 D-class fare left on the 27th
For the record, 27th also shows 1 D-class from BOM-LHR.
PVDtoDEL
May 4, 12, 7:41 am
That's shocking. 2 seats open! Wow.
While I'd like to resist the temptation to proselytize, I can't help but mention that AI has 2 J and 2 F seats available on both days :)
With easy online booking to boot ;)
DELANRDFW
May 4, 12, 8:38 am
Thanks guys for prompt replies, unfortunately dates are pretty much 28th or 29th. I guess its going to be VS then.
phillystudent
May 4, 12, 12:00 pm
Thanks guys for prompt replies, unfortunately dates are pretty much 28th or 29th. I guess its going to be VS then.
If you're willing to take a risk (and are desperate to really burn those JP miles), you can wait until exactly 30 days prior to travel. IME, JP releases one D-class seat exactly at 12 noon IST 30 days prior to the flight, if the capacity thresholds are within their acceptable ranges.
That's quite a risk, though, so be careful in case you try to do that. Moreover, end of August is when all the folks with kids are returning home in time for school, so there's going to be a lot of folks vying for any seats that open up.
Best of luck with the redemption, VS or 9W.
DELANRDFW
May 5, 12, 9:42 pm
If you're willing to take a risk (and are desperate to really burn those JP miles), you can wait until exactly 30 days prior to travel. IME, JP releases one D-class seat exactly at 12 noon IST 30 days prior to the flight, if the capacity thresholds are within their acceptable ranges.
That's quite a risk, though, so be careful in case you try to do that. Moreover, end of August is when all the folks with kids are returning home in time for school, so there's going to be a lot of folks vying for any seats that open up.
Best of luck with the redemption, VS or 9W.
Thanks, will put a reminder on my calendar.
abcx
May 6, 12, 2:43 am
If you're willing to take a risk (and are desperate to really burn those JP miles), you can wait until exactly 30 days prior to travel. IME, JP releases one D-class seat exactly at 12 noon IST 30 days prior to the flight, if the capacity thresholds are within their acceptable ranges.
That's quite a risk, though, so be careful in case you try to do that. Moreover, end of August is when all the folks with kids are returning home in time for school, so there's going to be a lot of folks vying for any seats that open up.
Best of luck with the redemption, VS or 9W.
That seat is released to 9W members only or to DL/AA as well?
phillystudent
May 6, 12, 7:34 am
That seat is released to 9W members only or to DL/AA as well?
AFAIK, everyone, but I've never tried outside of JP. I would highly recommend anyone trying this option has a refundable backup in hand - as I said, it's a high risk strategy, but it has paid off for me on more than one occasion.
SuperFlyBoy
May 6, 12, 8:23 am
If you're willing to take a risk (and are desperate to really burn those JP miles), you can wait until exactly 30 days prior to travel. IME, JP releases one D-class seat exactly at 12 noon IST 30 days prior to the flight, if the capacity thresholds are within their acceptable ranges.How do you know this?
PVDtoDEL
May 6, 12, 9:03 am
How do you know this?
Pattern recognition @:-)
abcx
May 6, 12, 9:33 am
AFAIK, everyone, but I've never tried outside of JP. I would highly recommend anyone trying this option has a refundable backup in hand - as I said, it's a high risk strategy, but it has paid off for me on more than one occasion.
Well, I had AA check DEL-LHR on 9W every date from now till June 15th and they didn't see a single award seat in C.
phillystudent
May 6, 12, 1:06 pm
Pattern recognition @:-)
Bingo. It's a tried and tested strategy for myself; just a suggestion for other folks in case they want to try it too and are able to score those elusive rewards.
Note: I don't wanna take liability for other folks who may get burned for trying this, so once again, it's just a suggestion! :)
Based on what abcx is saying, I guess AA members may be just SOL. :( Sorry, guys.
naroowal
May 9, 12, 10:22 pm
Can somebody please help me by checking availability on IT or 9W from DEL to BOM on June 2nd 2012.
Thank you very much for the help.
naroowal
Keyser
May 9, 12, 10:34 pm
Can somebody please help me by checking availability on IT or 9W from DEL to BOM on June 2nd 2012.
Thank you very much for the help.
naroowal
nothing in economy on any flight....1 business class seat available on 9w332, 9w336 & 9w302....
1 economy seat available on it312, 2 available on it316 & 3 available on it353....2 kingfisher first seats available on it304, it312, it314, it316 & it338....
Yaatri
May 10, 12, 9:34 am
Actually, that is not necessarily correct. It all depends on the contracts between them. For example, for quite a while DL had a separate partnership with SQ while both of them were ST and *A members respectively.
Before alliances were established, airlines had multiple partners. KLM flights earned you miles on UA or DL frequent flyer programmes. Similarly, SQ had been a mileage earning partner of DL before it joined Star alliance. DL's partnership with SQ does not nullify what PVDtoDL said.
Yaatri
May 10, 12, 10:00 am
Can somebody please help me by checking availability on IT or 9W from DEL to BOM on June 2nd 2012.
Thank you very much for the help.
naroowal
Didn't you also start a thread on the same issue?
naroowal
May 10, 12, 12:17 pm
@Yaatri sahab,
Thank you for the perfect availability. This I think is what DL is seeing.
Thank you,
naroowal
p.s. sorry for the double threads - I was not sure which was the right one. I guess thats why we have mods but decided to double up.
unicon
May 10, 12, 7:47 pm
Before alliances were established, airlines had multiple partners. KLM flights earned you miles on UA or DL frequent flyer programmes. Similarly, SQ had been a mileage earning partner of DL before it joined Star alliance. DL's partnership with SQ does not nullify what PVDtoDL said.
Neither did I nullify what PVDtoDEL said. All I'm saying is that joining an alliance does not necessarily require an airline to kill all its existing partnerships with other airlines which may be part of another major alliance. It all depends on what is in their negotiated contracts. So, for example, unless you have intimate knowledge of what is in the 9W contracts with its *A partners, you can't say one way or the other for sure that AI joining *A will automatically kill 9W's partnerships.
Anyway, this discussion is not really on-topic for this thread.
PVDtoDEL
May 10, 12, 7:58 pm
I guess I wasn't clear. If AI joins *A, the expectation is that other *A carriers will use AI for feed. That doesn't mean that they can't use 9W, but generally they wont. There are plenty of exceptions listed on this thread :)
Even if only 1/2 of *A switched over to using AI and the rest stayed with 9W, 9W is still losing a lot of revenue from feeding those other carriers.
unicon
May 10, 12, 10:45 pm
I guess I wasn't clear. If AI joins *A, the expectation is that other *A carriers will use AI for feed. That doesn't mean that they can't use 9W, but generally they wont. There are plenty of exceptions listed on this thread :)
Even if only 1/2 of *A switched over to using AI and the rest stayed with 9W, 9W is still losing a lot of revenue from feeding those other carriers.
And I completely completely agree with this. There is no doubt, 9W will be adversely affected if AI joins *A.
DELANRDFW
May 11, 12, 8:33 am
To bring this thread back to topic :-). I would really be grateful if somebody can find LHR-DEL availability for 28th of Jul, any class?
indialogue
May 11, 12, 9:17 am
To bring this thread back to topic :-). I would really be grateful if somebody can find LHR-DEL availability for 28th of Jul, any class?
Nothing for that date. Friday/Sunday available in Y. Other classes, unsurprisingly, sold out
I guess I wasn't clear. If AI joins *A, the expectation is that other *A carriers will use AI for feed. That doesn't mean that they can't use 9W, but generally they wont. There are plenty of exceptions listed on this thread :)
Even if only 1/2 of *A switched over to using AI and the rest stayed with 9W, 9W is still losing a lot of revenue from feeding those other carriers.With all the problems that AI keeps having, such as the current pilot strike, who would even want them in an alliance?? :td:
PVDtoDEL
May 13, 12, 8:55 am
With all the problems that AI keeps having, such as the current pilot strike, who would even want them in an alliance?? :td:
Carriers which want to benifit from having an alliance partner in the second largest country in the world? :confused:
SuperFlyBoy
May 13, 12, 8:56 am
Carriers which want to benifit from having an alliance partner in the second largest country in the world? :confused:Maybe - but then I would go with Jet, before any other airline...
PVDtoDEL
May 13, 12, 9:16 am
Maybe - but then I would go with Jet, before any other airline...
Sure. But the alliance wanting the airline isn't enough. The airline needs to want the alliance. And GoI needs to agree.
*A/ST/OW want an Indian partner (AI fits in this category). AI wants *A. GoI is a fan of AI joining *A. All criteria are met.
In comparison
*A/ST/OW want an Indian partner (9W fits in this category). 9W doesn't appear to want any of them, instead being happy feeding everyone. GoI doesn't want 9W to join an alliance without AI joining one. Only 1/3 criteria are met, so 9W won't join an alliance soon.
charms81
May 13, 12, 9:44 am
As much as I hate AI for their aunties and unfriendly service (100% of the staff is bad, including ground staff), but their hard product has not been bad and they have excellent award availability as well. So AI can be a good partner for an alliance unlike Jet who'll leech the alliance it joins. I hope AI joins ST, but it would likely end up with *A.
PVDtoDEL
May 13, 12, 9:50 am
As much as I hate AI for their aunties and unfriendly service (100% of the staff is bad, including ground staff),
Not my experience at all. Aunties have always been very aunty-like - helpful and caring.
There are bad apples for sure, but many staff are good.
but their hard product has not been bad and they have excellent award availability as well. So AI can be a good partner for an alliance unlike Jet who'll leech the alliance it joins. I hope AI joins ST, but it would likely end up with *A.
I'm still hoping for AI to end up in *A, since AI is my airline and *A is my alliance...
charms81
Jul 23, 12, 5:30 pm
Hello 9W FFlyers who have access to award availability,
Can someone please check if there is an award (X or D) availability for the following 2 flights?