Hawaii-based Airlines - HA connecting flight bag charges (& MAJOR change to inter-line policy as of 6/1/12)

Flying HNL-OGG-DEN. HNL-OGG in Hawaiian Economy. OGG-DEN in United First. I'm trying to check two bags, but the system wants to charge me for them ($34).

I thought, according to IATA rules, the longer flight dictates the rules (if it crosses a region like Asia/Pacific to North America), hence I should not be charged.

On the other hand, I found this in the Hawaiian website, which clearly says I must pay:

"For reservations connecting with other airlines, the baggage fees and rules of the first marketing carrier applies throughout the itinerary. For example, if you are traveling roundtrip from Honolulu, Hawaii to Austin, Texas, and connecting from Hawaiian Airlines to United Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines baggage fees and rules would apply both ways."

http://help.hawaiianair.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1922#codeshare

Am I not interpreting correctly IATA rules?

That be how Hawaiian rolls.

Here's a thread in the US forum which deals with this very issue. In a nutshell, they charge for your situation. I've been in the same situation, albeit with US instead of UA, and I pay for the bag on the inter-island segment.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/us-airways-dividend-miles/1333374-starting-ha-g-pay-bags.html

Here is the Hawaiian page which specifically addresses this issue: http://help.hawaiianair.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1922#codeshare

It's worth noting that as of May 1, HA won't even inter-line bags to other airlines (including its 'partners') unless they are in the same reservation record. That's really a hassle if you're connecting to the mainland and have had to purchase a separate ticket for the inter-island leg. You're now going to have to reclaim your bag and check it in again.

From the same page linked above:
Beginning May 1, 2012, Hawaiian will not through check bags to other airline flights unless the other airline segments are on the PNR for which the passenger is checking in.

It's worth noting that as of May 1, HA won't even inter-line bags to other airlines (including its 'partners') unless they are in the same reservation record. That's really a hassle if you're connecting to the mainland and have had to purchase a separate ticket for the inter-island leg. You're now going to have to reclaim your bag and check it in again.

Do you know if it's going to work the other direction too? Will they no longer accept inter-lined bags from other airlines?

Do you know if it's going to work the other direction too? Will they no longer accept inter-lined bags from other airlines?

I don't see how they'll have that choice. If a bag is inter-lined to them, from an airline they have such an agreement with, what would they do with it? Refuse to accept it? Then what? Explain to the passenger in HNL that their bag was left at OGG, even though they are ticketed on the HA flight to which their bags were tagged?

I think this is just a money grab by HA. If they can pick up these fees for the outbound flights and cut their transfers in half, great. But unless they convince all their 'partners' not to inter-line unless it's a single PNR (good luck training all the UACO/US/etc agents on that nuance), it seems to me it will continue to work as it always has.

But I'll let you know in July, as I have one of these very situations booked.

So this means I cannot book LIH-HNL direct with HA and then separate ticket with AA to mainland without picking up bags? Or can I call AA and have the two linked?
Big bother if that is the way it is to be.... Other direction seems to be ok...

I had something similar happen. HA is entitled to the interline bag fees for flights that originate on HA. They are not entitled to the mainland fees, unless you are flying HA the whole way.

I thought, according to IATA rules...

IATA rules are superseded by U.S. DOT rules for flights with an origin, destination (maybe stopover?) in the U.S of A. The baggage allowance of the marketing carrier of the first segment applies to the whole journey - effective 1/24/2012 or thereabouts.

So this means I cannot book LIH-HNL direct with HA and then separate ticket with AA to mainland without picking up bags? Or can I call AA and have the two linked?

Can AA do that? I know US cannot merge or even link PNRs. Best they can do is make a comment in one reservation that refers to another (such as minors flying on one ticket with adults on another), but that would not work for HA's purposes in this situation.

This is a real drag.

Not much 'aloha' on the part of HA here. Unfortunately, it's an increasing trend. :(

Can AA do that? I know US cannot merge or even link PNRs. Best they can do is make a comment in one reservation that refers to another (such as minors flying on one ticket with adults on another), but that would not work for HA's purposes in this situation.

This is a real drag.

Not much 'aloha' on the part of HA here. Unfortunately, it's an increasing trend. :(

No reason for Hawaiian to show Aloha - record tourism in 2012 forecasted. They have a terrible frequent flier program and policies but don't care since the flights are full.

There are lots of airlines with interline baggage agreements. Many are happy to check bags through to another carrier on separate tickets. The prevalence of airlines that used to do this, but now refuse, suggests this is a business/fee revenue issue, not a systems issue.

I'd pay the baggage fee to not have to go baggage claim, recheck bag and go back through security.

Wish they could figure out a way everyone could get their money but save the passenger the headache and time.

Flying HNL-OGG-DEN. HNL-OGG in Hawaiian Economy. OGG-DEN in United First. I'm trying to check two bags, but the system wants to charge me for them ($34).

Worth noting the $34 point, which confirms what AZ Travels mentioned in the other thread -- that at least they only charge the interisland rate. Eight bucks is eight bucks! That's nearly a gallon of gas on Maui. :)

I'm sure this is pretty significant revenue for HA. Who travels to Hawaii with only carry ons? Basically, they've found a way to get revenue for elites and F travelers flying over-ocean on non-HA flights, since they have the inter-island market cornered.

The interline thing is a real drag. I guess the good news is there are so many inter-island flights to HNL that it's usually easy just to pick one 30 minutes earlier. Hopefully, they will figure out a good system in HNL to do this -- like a dedicated bag check in desk or something for the big carriers. The place it might be a drag is for people flying direct to the mainland from OGG. If you're flying HA from, say, LIH to OGG and then connecting to US's OGG to PHX red eye fight, OGG is not the place you really want to be collecting bags, checking them, and re-clearing security in the pre-red eye period if you don't have some extra time. I think AA, US and maybe another all have flights around the same time and things can get a little backed up. (Although, I'm basing that on the very small sample size of the times I've been there, which are only a few.)

I once had to collect bags and recheck on a flight home from hawaii and it really stunk. Better than having to do it on the way there, I guess.

That be how Hawaiian rolls.


It's worth noting that as of May 1, HA won't even inter-line bags to other airlines (including its 'partners') unless they are in the same reservation record. That's really a hassle if you're connecting to the mainland and have had to purchase a separate ticket for the inter-island leg. You're now going to have to reclaim your bag and check it in again.

From the same page linked above:
Beginning May 1, 2012, Hawaiian will not through check bags to other airline flights unless the other airline segments are on the PNR for which the passenger is checking in.

Hawaiian Air is absolutely crazy to do this! I live on the big island and fly to HNL to catch my UA flight to wherever I'm going. I am a Pualani Platinum with HA and a 1K with UA. I always book separate interisland tickets with HA so I always have separate PNR's. If they make me have to pick up my bags in HNL and re-check them into UA, they WILL lose my business as well as the business of many others who travel this way. Mark Dunkerley needs to wake up! I'll either start flying UA directly out of my city, or change interisland carriers to Go! Airlines.

I will call our corporate rep from HA on Monday to verify that this is correct.

That language is no longer on the website at least as of yesterday.

I'm not sure why you say that....

I just clicked on http://help.hawaiianair.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1922#codeshare

and it still says

Beginning May 1, 2012, Hawaiian will not through check bags to other airline flights unless the other airline segments are on the PNR for which the passenger is checking in.

They tagged me on the way out since I'm no longer Pualani Gold. I don't see how they can do it on the return since the bags are in transit and tagged to the final destination. If you have a ticket to your connecting flight HA will tag it to your final destination. Don't know if that changes May1.

I seriously doubt they are going to be able to do that. (not interline bags on different itineraries.) It would screw everybody up and I have a feeling it would violate their interline agreements, etc. But that's conjecture .. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

As far as getting around HA's bag fees? That's pretty simple, fly directly to your destination.

-David

Just spent 20 min on the phone with HA. Apparently the regular CSR did not see the "May 1" note on his end but Tech support did. Though Tech claimed that the changes were more internal then anything else and they will still interline bags after May 1.

I think what he was saying was that the sentences was a bit mixed up and that the statement of "May 1" should have been placed before "If you have a separate confirmation code for a connecting flight, please check in with an airport agent at your point of origin."

I'm still a bit confused but he assured me that you will still be able to interline bags come May 1.

Edit: Ok scratch that. Called again and got a whole different story and that indeed the policies changed.

Where did you call? Customer Support or Web Support?

Where did you call? Customer Support or Web Support?

Both

Just spent 20 min on the phone with HA. Apparently the regular CSR did not see the "May 1" note on his end but Tech support did. Though Tech claimed that the changes were more internal then anything else and they will still interline bags after May 1.

I think what he was saying was that the sentences was a bit mixed up and that the statement of "May 1" should have been placed before "If you have a separate confirmation code for a connecting flight, please check in with an airport agent at your point of origin."

I'm still a bit confused but he assured me that you will still be able to interline bags come May 1.

Edit: Ok scratch that. Called again and got a whole different story and that indeed the policies changed.
According to several HA executives, HA will still interline bags after May 1; however, the other airline segments must be on the same PNR. In addition, the connection between the interline partner must be within the "minimum connection time" and 4 hours. If the other airline segments are not on the same PNR and/or the time between connecting segments is longer than 4 hours, it's considered a "stopover" and you'll have to collect your bags and check them in on the other airline starting on May 1. :rolleyes:

The "rationale" behind this policy change is three-fold. First, HA wants folks to use them for all of their travel needs to and from Hawaiʻi, considering that it has expanded its routes to Asia and the continental United States during the past few years. Second, HA can collect baggage fees from non-status passengers that don't have their HA flight segments on the same PNR as the other airline flight segments and/or "stopover" times in excess of 4 hours. And, third, HA doesn't want to be responsible if another airline mishandles a passenger's baggage. :(

Just make sure that all of the other airline segments are on the same PNR and within the "time limits" and it's "business as usual"... ;)

According to several HA executives, HA will still interline bags after May 1; however, the other airline segments must be on the same PNR.

In reality, this is a distinction without a difference. It effectively means no inter-lining for most pax.

In reality, this is a distinction without a difference. It effectively means no inter-lining for most pax.

How is that? Are you arguing that 'most pax' buy a separate HA ticket for travel to their real destination? Do you have any data to support that?

The easy way aroun dthis is to buy a single ticket, there are plenty of web sites capable of interline ticketing. Its also a lot simpiler in IRROPs.

Long-time lurker here. This bothered me quite a bit and prompted my first post here (and this is from having experienced the turmoil of the NWA/Delta merger). If this change is true, it is absolutely infuriating and customer-unfriendly.

We travel to Hawaii 3-4 times a year and always book our tickets separately on Delta and Hawaiian. Reasons to do this on our part:

-we fly through ATL--> HNL for the A330 on Delta and this flight books very early in F class, thus we tend to advance plan and buy these tickets first for our vacations and decide how we spend our time in the islands later (i.e. which islands we end up on). So we always buy the HA tickets later after we have decided on our final plans.

-on a multi-island itinerary, it is very difficult to book codeshare flights on one PNR. For example if we fly to HNL and stay on Oahu for 4 days, then fly to Kauai for 10 days it is difficult if not impossible to have one record for this type of itinerary (AFAIK). I would imagine for many people traveling to Hawaii, they visit multiple islands and would find it difficult to have all flights on one PNR.

If this change is true, what used to be a seamless, pleasant end to a vacation will become a rush through airports/check-in lines/TSA lines that is needless and not a way to promote the Aloha spirit. It is a long journey to Hawaii and adding more hassle is not the way to encourage visitors to return.

It should be noted that their website is not consistent either with this policy:

http://www.hawaiianair.com/help/fees-id-1922#codeshare

http://help.hawaiianair.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1922/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xMzM0Njk0MzM0L3NpZC9fNHlNaVVWaw%3D% 3D#codeshare

The first link is clicking on the "optional fees" tab at the top of the website and then clicking on "other airlines." This link does not have any mention of a5/1/12 change in policy with interlining luggage.

The second link is from clicking on the "help" tab at the top of the website and then clicking on "check-in/carry-on baggage." And this link does state the change in policy on 5/1/12.

If this change carries through, we will no longer fly HA and will either use DL or Island air for our inter-island travel (cannot bring myself to us Go). I have plenty of family who were born and raised in Hawaii and they will not be pleased with this change. A very poorly thought out change and not communicated well at all to the customers nor their phone staff (the agent I spoke to today had no clue about any sort of interline baggage policy change).

Sorry for the long post and I hope it is readable. Having visited the islands over 30 times in the last 12 years this makes me very angry.

How is that? Are you arguing that 'most pax' buy a separate HA ticket for travel to their real destination? Do you have any data to support that?

Since booking direct with HA for inter island air is ALWAYS cheaper than booking the same flight through a partner airline (plus the fact that you can pick your flight as opposed to taking what gets listed on the partner site), I ALWAYS have booked my flights to HNL and back separately from my mainland flights -which are not on routes served by HA. If this rule holds, I'm done with HA. Island Air and Go are eager for the business.

How is that? Are you arguing that 'most pax' buy a separate HA ticket for travel to their real destination? Do you have any data to support that?

We are another data point that in our past 20+ trips to the islands, we have always purchased our interisland tickets separately. Not once have I been on the same PNR for my interisland travel. We prefer to fly the widebody flights in/out of HNL instead of the 757/737's out of LIH. Unfortuntely, I just bought our tickets for our next trip and am regretting putting us on separate PNR's although for our desired date of travel, there were no valid connecting flights on UA since everything united.com gave me more than a 4 hour connection. This will definitely push us toward the direct flights from the mainland to the outer islands.

A very poor decision by HA, they should be making it easier to fly interisland not harder. Especially in the face of the Alaska airlines rapid expansion and the looming threat of Southwest Airlines and Allegient airlines.

According to several HA executives, HA will still interline bags after May 1; however, the other airline segments must be on the same PNR. In addition, the connection between the interline partner must be within the "minimum connection time" and 4 hours. If the other airline segments are not on the same PNR and/or the time between connecting segments is longer than 4 hours, it's considered a "stopover" and you'll have to collect your bags and check them in on the other airline starting on May 1. :rolleyes:

The "rationale" behind this policy change is three-fold. First, HA wants folks to use them for all of their travel needs to and from Hawaiʻi, considering that it has expanded its routes to Asia and the continental United States during the past few years. Second, HA can collect baggage fees from non-status passengers that don't have their HA flight segments on the same PNR as the other airline flight segments and/or "stopover" times in excess of 4 hours. And, third, HA doesn't want to be responsible if another airline mishandles a passenger's baggage. :(

Just make sure that all of the other airline segments are on the same PNR and within the "time limits" and it's "business as usual"... ;)

Dude: with apologies but "that dog don't hunt'. First, HA only flies to a few mainland locations and none in the midwest. Second, HA collects the bag fees now when anyone checking in to an HA flight connecting to a partner flight checks in (status customers excepted as always). Third, HA as the originating airline is still only responsible for the bags UNTIL the handoff to the next carrier, at which point that carrier is liable for the bags. So, what is the real reason for this stupid decision?

How is that? Are you arguing that 'most pax' buy a separate HA ticket for travel to their real destination? Do you have any data to support that?

Yes. Dozens of trips to/from the mainland, and every one of them bought with separate HA (or, in the day, AQ) segments. As noted by others upstream, buying in any other fashion can dramatically increase the price (I've seen sometimes a six-fold difference!)

This makes me long for the days of AQ as well...

That was a company that had true Aloha (pardon the pun).

Dude: with apologies but "that dog don't hunt'. First, HA only flies to a few mainland locations and none in the midwest. Second, HA collects the bag fees now when anyone checking in to an HA flight connecting to a partner flight checks in (status customers excepted as always). Third, HA as the originating airline is still only responsible for the bags UNTIL the handoff to the next carrier, at which point that carrier is liable for the bags. So, what is the real reason for this stupid decision?
Hmm. HA flies to LAX, LAS, SEA, SAN, SFO, OAK, SJC, SMF, PDX, PHX, and soon JFK. That's eleven mainland locations, so far. Depending on how the JFK/HNL flight does, ORD might be the next mainland airport to receive HA flights. :cool:

Second, if one checks in via a partner airlines that connects to a HA flight, HA doesn't get to collect any baggage fees. HA wants to be able to collect baggage fees for these flights, plain and simple. Some folks might find that it's increasing difficult to book a connecting flight on the same PNR that falls within the 4 hour "time limit" to avoid having it considered a "stopover." :rolleyes:

Third, if the originating carrier is not HA and the bags are mishandled, HA gets to hear the brunt of the customer complaints, even if the originating carrier is liable. If the customer is responsible for the "handoff" of the baggage to HA, HA gets to hear complaints for their own mishandling of baggage, not another carrier's.

In 2010, HA raked in $54 million in from baggage fees, which amounted to almost half of its $110 million profit. Thus, the real reason for this "stupid" decision is money. Someone at HA realized that while they might alienate some folks with the change in baggage policies, they can milk customers for another several million dollars. ;)
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110614_hawaiian_airlines_bags_54M_in_fees.html?i d=123798699

One can simply avoid flying on HA, purchase a "Premier Club (http://www.hawaiianair.com/hawaiianmiles/premier-club)" membership for $249 and check up to 2 bags (if they don't have status), fly First Class, pay the baggage fees, or not check any bags. In any event, HA's going to try to extract revenue from passengers that have the temerity to check baggage one way or another. :(

Frustration -It would be interesting to see the metrics behind this decision. It almost makes no sense. I guess it will save some gas and wear and tear on the carts from the interisland terminal at HNL. But, if even one connecting bag was on the same PNR they will still have to drive the tug over to the overseas terminal at HNL.

If they wanted to collect more fees they would not accept interline on the incoming flight and collect the baggage fees in Hawaii.

I would even be willing to pay an interline baggage fee rather than having to go back through the check-in and security process.

Wait until the first family that booked their 1:15 OGG (HA)-HNL (DL)-ATL connection finds out they will have $2000 in change fees at the DL counter when they miss the 45 minute check-in time and have to wait 2 days for the next available flight.

I have to say I am a bit angry about this.

I am flying at the end of May, Hawaiian to Honululu and then Island Air to Lana'i.

I priced up the costs of separate tickets and booking all through Hawaiian, and separate tickets were significantly cheaper, and I had included the inter-lining of bags in this.

Now, the additional cost of having to pay for my bags twice, as well as the hassle of collecting them in Honolulu and re-checking in, outweighs a large part of the saving I'd made.

I can't believe they are applying to this to past bookings made when the old Rules applied.

Shocking, and not a good first impression for an airline I've never flown before.

I have to say I am a bit angry about this.

I am flying at the end of May, Hawaiian to Honululu and then Island Air to Lana'i.

I priced up the costs of separate tickets and booking all through Hawaiian, and separate tickets were significantly cheaper, and I had included the inter-lining of bags in this.

Now, the additional cost of having to pay for my bags twice, as well as the hassle of collecting them in Honolulu and re-checking in, outweighs a large part of the saving I'd made.

I can't believe they are applying to this to past bookings made when the old Rules applied.

Shocking, and not a good first impression for an airline I've never flown before.

Exactly right. I have cancelled an HA booking and will instead book on Island air to Maui. Unfortunately Island Air (although a great small airline) has a very limited route structure. LIH Prem's now edited post made excellent points about the lack of good reason by HA behind this move.

This subject is being discussed on the Trip Advisor forums (Hawaii) too. Three of us have emailed HA regarding this new policy and have all received the SAME answer:
>>>>"Aloha,
We appreciate your time to contact Hawaiian Airlines Web Support. In response to your inquiry, apparently in-order for us to interline your baggage with other airlines it should be in the same PNR or reservation.

If we can be of further assistance you can contact our General Reservations Department at 1-800-367-5320 open 24 hours daily.

Mahalo!
Jay
Hawaiian Airlines Web Support""<<<<

What a mess HNL is going to be, the security lines are going be horrible. Which brings up another subject. The AG inspection (back to mainland). You have your checked bags inspected at LIH, OGG etc. There is a sticker put on them. Now you need to re-check your bags at HNL, are you going to need to go thru AG inspection again? I would think so....

What a mess HNL is going to be, the security lines are going be horrible. Which brings up another subject. The AG inspection (back to mainland). You have your checked bags inspected at LIH, OGG etc. There is a sticker put on them. Now you need to re-check your bags at HNL, are you going to need to go thru AG inspection again? I would think so....

No, since HA isn't going to interline your bag, it's only going to be tagged to HNL ---- interisland, thus no Ag inspection at origin. You would have to Ag clear after retrieving your bags and before check-in/bag drop in HNL, adding more hassle and priming you for another wonderful TSA experience to immediately follow.

No, since HA isn't going to interline your bag, it's only going to be tagged to HNL ---- interisland, thus no Ag inspection at origin. You would have to Ag clear after retrieving your bags and before check-in/bag drop in HNL, adding more hassle and priming you for another wonderful TSA experience to immediately follow.

Duh....thanks, right you are, no need for AG at Lihue if it's only tagged to HNL. I just can't believe HA is going to do this.

It surprises me that HA is going to do this. They could not have thought it all the way through.

Such a large percentage of these situations are people flying from Hawaii to mainland destinations HA does not serve.

They are already charging their baggage fee for that inter-island segment that connects to the mainland flight (and it's worth noting, mostly with HA "partners"), so there is no additional money to be grabbed here.

I suspect this will have the impact of reducing HA's revenue from where it is today. Initially people will have no idea of the policy change. They'll book and travel as they always have, then when they go to check in and check their bag all the way through on their 45 minute connection, they'll be told it can't be done. They'll have to claim their bag at OGG at 10:00 PM and fight the crowds back through security to make their connecting flight. Many will simply miss their redeye home; most of the rest will be absolutely frazzled racing to the gate.

That will make people so angry, they'll either forgo these outer-island excursions when they go to Hawaii (loss of revenue to HA), or they'll swear off HA forever as a result of the experience and their customer-unfriendly rules (also a loss revenue to HA). Then they'll tell all their friends on Facebook and Twitter about it.

I hope the cost savings of inter-lining bags, and loss of goodwill, is worth it.

Like US Airways trying to charge for water -- this is a step too far.

I'll plan to pack light and always carry on!!!!!

And do not forget - they limit your hand carry items to 25 lbs each. So travel light for sure.

Hmm. HA flies to LAX, LAS, SEA, SAN, SFO, OAK, SJC, SMF, PDX, PHX, and soon JFK. That's eleven mainland locations, so far. Depending on how the JFK/HNL flight does, ORD might be the next mainland airport to receive HA flights. :cool:

And all those mentioned are West Coast with exception of soon to start DC. Chicago is nothing more than a rumor, so I stand by my comment.

Second, if one checks in via a partner airlines that connects to a HA flight, HA doesn't get to collect any baggage fees. HA wants to be able to collect baggage fees for these flights, plain and simple. Some folks might find that it's increasing difficult to book a connecting flight on the same PNR that falls within the 4 hour "time limit" to avoid having it considered a "stopover." :roll eyes:

Huh? We're talking about HA being the originating inter island airline passing the bags off to a partner airline for a mainland flight after HA has collected it's pound of flesh. So, again, your comment makes no sense.

Third, if the originating carrier is not HA and the bags are mishandled, HA gets to hear the brunt of the customer complaints, even if the originating carrier is liable. If the customer is responsible for the "handoff" of the baggage to HA, HA gets to hear complaints for their own mishandling of baggage, not another carrier's.

Only thing I can see here is if Go or Island Air was the originating interisland carrier. That sort of makes sense if you want to hamstring your local competition.

In 2010, HA raked in $54 million in from baggage fees, which amounted to almost half of its $110 million profit. Thus, the real reason for this "stupid" decision is money. Someone at HA realized that while they might alienate some folks with the change in baggage policies, they can milk customers for another several million dollars. ;)
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110614_hawaiian_airlines_bags_54M_in_fees.html?i d=123798699

One can simply avoid flying on HA, purchase a "Premier Club (http://www.hawaiianair.com/hawaiianmiles/premier-club)" membership for $249 and check up to 2 bags (if they don't have status), fly First Class, pay the baggage fees, or not check any bags. In any event, HA's going to try to extract revenue from passengers that have the temerity to check baggage one way or another. :(

OK, again, if I have status (and I do) are you saying none of this shibai applies??

Glad I'm flying on the 29th from LIH to HNL...at least my bags "should" be interlined.

Is HA able to change the policy retroactively? I would think one would have a good case for a cancellation of the ticket (and/or chargeback) based on the service that was promised as part of the ticket not being provided.

I'm livid with this change given that I have a short connection in HNL to an airline that doesn't codeshare with HA, and buying the segment as part of the itinerary wasn't even a remote possibility. It will get ugly if this is enforced at checkin...

Is HA able to change the policy retroactively?+1
My idea is to book a ticket now before the 1st via a website that offers courtesy cancellations i.e. Orbitz, then call HA and say I booked the ticket prior to the 1st and had no idea. A supervisor said that they may be able to put notes on the reservation to make an exception. Your thoughts?

Edit: Didn't work. Supervisor said the May 1 wording was on the website since Jan 24th. Screw em', just gonna book a flight directly through UA to the mainland instead of the red-eye.

OK, again, if I have status (and I do) are you saying none of this shibai applies??

It will apply in the sense that if you do not have a single PNR with both your mainland and interisland on the same record, they will not interline the bags.
You may not have to pay bag fees depending on your status, but it will still be a major pain in the butt (bag re-check, double security screen) and possibly missed connections in HNL !

This is potentially a PR disaster for HA. What a stupid move. I am still trying to figure out the thinking here. It seems like a "downgrade" in service to match go! who does not have many interline agreements.

In the past, I often booked my interisland separately because the flight connections offered by CO, UA, AA, DL had longer than necessary layovers in HNL, you could not get the full list of available flights on offer from HA via these other carriers. But now I will have to seriously take a hard look at who I fly and when.

It will apply in the sense that if you do not have a single PNR with both your mainland and interisland on the same record, they will not interline the bags.
You may not have to pay bag fees depending on your status, but it will still be a major pain in the butt (bag re-check, double security screen) and possibly missed connections in HNL !

This is potentially a PR disaster for HA. What a stupid move. I am still trying to figure out the thinking here. It seems like a "downgrade" in service to match go! who does not have many interline agreements.

In the past, I often booked my interisland separately because the flight connections offered by CO, UA, AA, DL had longer than necessary layovers in HNL, you could not get the full list of available flights on offer from HA via these other carriers. But now I will have to seriously take a hard look at who I fly and when.

Exactly!! That's why I've always booked separate PNR's for inter island and mainland. What the frack are they thinking??

+1


Edit: Didn't work. Supervisor said the May 1 wording was on the website since Jan 24th. Screw em', just gonna book a flight directly through UA to the mainland instead of the red-eye.

Well, the contract of carriage still says nothing about this in the baggage section. :mad: This has the potential to really screw our vacation. (Luckily, the return portion only)

Well, the contract of carriage still says nothing about this in the baggage section. :mad: This has the potential to really screw our vacation. (Luckily, the return portion only)

If its a problem with connection time, you might try to proactively call & request a slightly earlier interisland flight if one exists, at no cost to you of course, since they changed the rules after purchase.

I sent an email to our local newspaper here in Hilo with a link to this thread in hopes they will investigate this and write a story. There is gonna be some really upset Big Island residents when this kicks in.

Exactly!! That's why I've always booked separate PNR's for inter island and mainland. What the frack are they thinking??There's way more to this than "meets the eye." According to HA's corporate counsel, on April 25, 2011, the US DOT issued a rule (14 CFR 399.87) that requires the same baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger's itinerary apply throughout the entire itinerary if the journey originates or ends in the U.S. Apparently, 14 CFR 399.87 had a deadline August 23, 2011 that was extended to January 24, 2012 for full compliance. Citing technical difficulties and the lack of a "centralized bag rule database," the International Air Transport Association (IATA) along with several other air transport associations filed a petition on November 28, 2011 to delay the implementation of 14 CFR 399.87 for one year. Unfortunately, the petition was denied on January 6, 2012.

In its response to the petition, the US DOT cited that airlines should be able to comply with 14 CFR 399.87 in situations where "all of the flights on a passenger's itinerary are operated by a single carrier with no code-share or interlining." Furthermore, the US DOT stated that "the vast majority of passengers fly on these types of itineraries" (in which there is no code-sharing or interlining). Here's a link a PDF of the US DOT's response to the petition to delay the implementation of 14 CFR 399.87...:cool:
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/Denial%20of%20Baggage%20Extension%20Final.pdf

To make matters worse, the US DOT announced that its Office of the Assistant General Counsel for Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings is not going to enforce 14 CFR 399.87 for six-month period "if certain conditions are met." At the very latest, this "six-month period" ends on July 24, 2012. HA's "official response" to all of this is to alter its baggage policies to ensure compliance with 14 CFR 399.87 starting on May 1, 2012. I find it somewhat disingenuous that some folks at HA are blaming its change in baggage policies on a rule by the US DOT that's supposed to "enhance airline passenger protections." :rolleyes:

Fortunately, not all of the "powers-that-be" at HA support the change in baggage policies. It's going to be somewhat interesting to see how this plays out after May 1st. ;)

There's way more to this than "meets the eye." According to HA's corporate counsel, on April 25, 2011, the US DOT issued a rule (14 CFR 399.87) that requires the same baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger's itinerary apply throughout the entire itinerary if the journey originates or ends in the U.S. Apparently, 14 CFR 399.87 had a deadline August 23, 2011 that was extended to January 24, 2012 for full compliance. Citing technical difficulties and the lack of a "centralized bag rule database," the International Air Transport Association (IATA) along with several other air transport associations filed a petition on November 28, 2011 to delay the implementation of 14 CFR 399.87 for one year. Unfortunately, the petition was denied on January 6, 2012.

In its response to the petition, the US DOT cited that airlines should be able to comply with 14 CFR 399.87 in situations where "all of the flights on a passenger's itinerary are operated by a single carrier with no code-share or interlining." Furthermore, the US DOT stated that "the vast majority of passengers fly on these types of itineraries" (in which there is no code-sharing or interlining). Here's a link a PDF of the US DOT's response to the petition to delay the implementation of 14 CFR 399.87...:cool:
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/Denial%20of%20Baggage%20Extension%20Final.pdf

To make matters worse, the US DOT announced that its Office of the Assistant General Counsel for Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings is not going to enforce 14 CFR 399.87 for six-month period "if certain conditions are met." At the very latest, this "six-month period" ends on July 24, 2012. HA's "official response" to all of this is to alter its baggage policies to ensure compliance with 14 CFR 399.87 starting on May 1, 2012. I find it somewhat disingenuous that some folks at HA are blaming its change in baggage policies on a rule by the US DOT that's supposed to "enhance airline passenger protections." :rolleyes:

Fortunately, not all of the "powers-that-be" at HA support the change in baggage policies. It's going to be somewhat interesting to see how this plays out after May 1st. ;)

Great informative post.

Aloha kakou,

If you wish to make partisan political characterizations or have have partisan political discussions, please start a thread in OMNI/PR.

Thanks,

cblaisd
Co-Moderator, Hawai`i-based Airlines forum

Sometimes laws are passed or edicts issued with unintended consequences. This certainly sounds like one of them .

I often take family with me on vacation to the islands that are AA elites. What often happens is that they will book AA tickets to SEA, I will join them on AS or HA to the islands, and then they'll come back to SEA and continue on to NYC.

The current interline policy saved their bacon 2 years ago at SEA, where an HA MX caused a 9 hour delay that barely allowed them to make an overnight connection from SEA to JFK (they made it with 15 minutes to spare). Their bags would have otherwise been stuck in limbo at SEA for 24 hours until the next flight left.

AS is now the no brainer choice to the islands for me. The one thing HA had going for them was the widebody aircraft but I'll put up with a 737 if it means that they won't interline baggage for people traveling with me.

I received an email containing a press statement/FAQ stating the policy has been delayed until 1 June. So now creep in with my flight on 30 May.

Although when I now look on Hawaiian's website I can see nothing about it...

I received an email containing a press statement/FAQ stating the policy has been delayed until 1 June. So now creep in with my flight on 30 May.

Although when I now look on Hawaiian's website I can see nothing about it...

Interesting. There now is a statement on HA's site but doesn't say anything about the delay.

http://www.hawaiianair.com/help/Pages/Interline-Baggage-Statement.aspx

I find it very disengenuous that HA is hiding behind this rule to extract more baggage fees (which they are effectively doing). No other mainline carrier seems to have issued any other statements about this. I also find it incredulous that they will not accept bags in HNL from other carriers anymore. So even if I through check my bags at my point of origin to my final destination in Hawaii, HA will not transport it there but instead unload it at HNL (yet Delta has always tagged bags to final destinations in my experience at my home airport and I don't see them stopping doing this).. Imagine how many people will be caught unaware by this.

And I also agree that DOT ruling 399.87 that is supposed to "enhance passenger protections" does the reverse in this case. This rule needs to be modified to account for this specific situation.

So, I have a question related to this issue, which I hope belongs here....

I have split your question out to its own thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hawaii-based-airlines/1340269-can-i-get-both-ha-us-miles-situation-should-i-try-if-so-how.html

cblaisd
Co-Moderator, Hawaii-based Airlines forum

Interesting. There now is a statement on HA's site but doesn't say anything about the delay.

http://www.hawaiianair.com/help/Pages/Interline-Baggage-Statement.aspx

I find it very disengenuous that HA is hiding behind this rule to extract more baggage fees (which they are effectively doing). No other mainline carrier seems to have issued any other statements about this. I also find it incredulous that they will not accept bags in HNL from other carriers anymore. So even if I through check my bags at my point of origin to my final destination in Hawaii, HA will not transport it there but instead unload it at HNL (yet Delta has always tagged bags to final destinations in my experience at my home airport and I don't see them stopping doing this).. Imagine how many people will be caught unaware by this.

And I also agree that DOT ruling 399.87 that is supposed to "enhance passenger protections" does the reverse in this case. This rule needs to be modified to account for this specific situation.

I am furious with Hawaiian Air over this change! I intend to avoid flying on Hawaiian whenever possible and fly United directly out of Hilo. So long Hawaiian, you just lost another customer that flies 60+ segments per year.

I had an interisland flight on HA scheduled in July to HNL connecting to an HA partner mainland carrier flight to DTW (where HA doesn't fly). Called the "Customer (non)Response" 888 number and asked about this policy. They immediately transferred me to Reservations (AKA, Mindanao, Philippines). I stated that if indeed this was the new policy, I wanted an immediate full refund of my ticket. No argument, they just agreed.
So, my conclusion is that, yes, HA WILL do this on 5/1, and two, I'm done with them. No more Premier Club, no more Pualani. From now on, I'm booking mainland carriers direct from and to Maui until this insanity ends. My guess is that the HA "partners" may soon retaliate against HA for this shameless act. I am sending a letter to Dunkerley and suggest any and all on this Board who are upset do the same. Not to Customer Response, but to the Executive Suite.

How did you get a refund? Was on phone with ha for over 45 minutes today and spoke to three different departments. They said no refunds.

I also tried to cancel a future ticket and was told no refund as well. I have sent an email to their consumer affairs address and to the DOT as well (not that it will do any good).

Called Customer Response first and explained why I was calling. They transferred me to Reservations. Asked for a supervisor right off the top. Got a brief argument before I explained that it meant no sense for the agent to be a go between on an issue that would require a Supervisor anyway.Explained to the Supe why I was calling and that I wanted a FULL refund. Supe said 'call Customer Response". Said I did and THEY transferred me to her. Was put on hold for about 10 minutes and Supe came back and said OK, your refund is in process and "we're sorry".

This is an absolutely ridiculous policy change that I predict will cause HA more in lost revenue than any "liability" issue ever will.

So if my Delta flight arrives at 2:30pm from ATL, do I have enough time now to make my Hawaiian flight that leaves at 4:25pm?

So if my Delta flight arrives at 2:30pm from ATL, do I have enough time now to make my Hawaiian flight that leaves at 4:25pm?

You should be good.

So if my Delta flight arrives at 2:30pm from ATL, do I have enough time now to make my Hawaiian flight that leaves at 4:25pm?

Depends on how fast they unload the plane and how quickly you can get your bags rechecked and thru TSA. Should be enough time but could be close. You will need to go from the main terminal to the inter island terminal with them for recheck.

So if my Delta flight arrives at 2:30pm from ATL, do I have enough time now to make my Hawaiian flight that leaves at 4:25pm?

I would have no problem taking this risk at HNL.

I have one coming up myself. Arriving OGG at 5:20 PM on US (in F), connecting to HA to HNL (in F) at 6:38 PM. (I don't know that F on either sector is going to help me much other than my bags could be near the first onto the carrousel. There is still no F security line at OGG is there?)

How is OGG security that time of day? My recent experience has all been late evening, when all the red-eyes depart. I'd never consider something like this at that time of day.

Do you OGG experts think this is workable? I just can't believe HA is hiding behind their, "It's been in the fine print on our website since January, so no leeway on changes," stance. Absolutely no Aloha by HA, on any level, with this change -- so typical of them in recent years. :mad:

I would have no problem taking this risk at HNL.

I have one coming up myself. Arriving OGG at 5:20 PM on US (in F), connecting to HA to HNL (in F) at 6:38 PM. (I don't know that F on either sector is going to help me much other than my bags could be near the first onto the carrousel. There is still no F security line at OGG is there?)

How is OGG security that time of day? My recent experience has all been late evening, when all the red-eyes depart. I'd never consider something like this at that time of day.

Do you OGG experts think this is workable? I just can't believe HA is hiding behind their, "It's been in the fine print on our website since January, so no leeway on changes," stance. Absolutely no Aloha by HA, on any level, with this change -- so typical of them in recent years. :mad:

Still no F line at OGG. Around 6 PM, lines should be moderate. Your biggest problem will be if US is late getting in as you only have one hour...and HA is notorious for closing the ramp door early.

Still no F line at OGG. Around 6 PM, lines should be moderate. Your biggest problem will be if US is late getting in as you only have one hour...and HA is notorious for closing the ramp door early.

No one can predict what the lines will look like. Right now I would guess the majority of passengers arriving from the mainland to HNL/OGG have their bags transferred. What will security be like when most arriving passengers have to re-cear security?

Unfortunately, I am traveling to HNL then on to KOA on June 1......

What will security be like when most arriving passengers have to re-cear security?

I bet most people won't even understand what they have to do and what rechecking a bag really means. Granted, those flying on miles that have the experience will understand and be quite upset, but will the honeymoon couple, or the leisure traveler from the west coast really know?

Of course this doesn't even take into consideration the number of bags that end up getting gate checked, which is becoming more and more common. When a gate agent ends up taking a bag, what are the odds that they're going to tell a customer that they'll have to recheck at HNL?

I have a feeling HNL is going to become inundated with misconnected luggage, and that HA's partners are going to throw a fit over the number of calls they'll have to field on "missing" bags. Someone might want to open one of those unclaimed luggage shops up on the islands!

No one can predict what the lines will look like. Right now I would guess the majority of passengers arriving from the mainland to HNL/OGG have their bags transferred. What will security be like when most arriving passengers have to re-cear security?

Unfortunately, I am traveling to HNL then on to KOA on June 1......

Solid point. This is gonna the Mother of all CF's. How much Pakalolo is HA smoking?

As I was rechecking our itineraries on HA website for a hawaii trip in a week, I just noticed the Interline Baggage Statement and FAQs. Wow -- I didn't know this was happening! Was no problem interlining on my previous two trips. Should have been checking this forum ;)

So, the website says they have delayed implementation until June 1. I sure hope it is delayed. I'm traveling with my folks to Big Island, but am returning home via HNL 4 days before them. I have plenty of time at HNL to re-check my bag but it would still kinda tick me off, that's for sure. However, I REALLY don't want my folks to have to deal with this on their return journey when I won't be there to help them negotiate this whole cluster* process. I had already explained to them how they would request at check-in that HA process their bags on both itineraries (HA, then AA).

Just wondering if anyone had any information on whether I am still good with interlining through the month of May or if some agents are already implementing the restrictions (you can tell I fly UA alot as there are so many discrepancies in agents actions I never am confident they will follow the rules :D).

Hmm. HA flies to LAX, LAS, SEA, SAN, SFO, OAK, SJC, SMF, PDX, PHX, and soon JFK. That's eleven mainland locations, so far.


11 mainland locations, 8 or 9 of which have nonstop service to the neighbor islands on another carrier anyway.

For many of these locations, HA is under significant price pressure from AS, which has reversed the tradition where HNL was usually cheaper to fly to. In many cases, service to the neighbor islands is now cheaper than flying into HNL anyway.

HA doesn't play nice with OAL mileage programs; they don't work well as a mileage program for most who don't live in HI, their coach cabin is cramped, and now they don't play nice with interline bags.

As a mainlander, I didn't see the point of flying them before, and I really don't see it now.

The baggage change issue made the Honolulu Star-Advertiser today, Section B (Local news) page 7. They basically said it won't impact most people and they'd face fines if they didn't implement the policy. The article was pretty much buried.

Also available in today's May 9 online edition but you need to be a subscriber to read the story online.

Thanks Ripper

From: The Honolulu Star-Advertiser Online

Hawaiian Air alters its baggage policy
Fliers might face extra luggage fees if they book separate tickets for travel on more than one airline


By Dave Segal



POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, May 09, 2012


It's soon going to take more time, effort and possibly money for some Hawaiian Airlines passengers to fly between the neighbor islands and the mainland.

The state's largest carrier is implementing a new policy June 1 that will require passengers who booked their interisland tickets separately from their Hono.lulu-mainland tickets to exit security in Hono.lulu, reclaim their bag, run it through agricultural screening, re-check their bag, pay any required baggage fees and then re-clear security.

"This is going to be a huge pain in the okole for folks, and perhaps cause loads of missed connections for people who book ‘normal' connection times," said Rick Cabral, a frequent traveler from Wahiawa and a member of FlyerTalk, an interactive community of frequent travelers.

But Hawaiian spokes.man Keoni Wagner stressed that most passengers won't be affected.

"This change is not going to apply to the vast majority of our customers, who already fly on a single-ticket itinerary," Wagner said.

"The same holds true for most travelers today whether you're booking travel through an individual airline or an online agency. Almost all travel that has connecting flights in the itinerary is today booked on a single ticket."

Hawaiian said it is making the change in its "interline" baggage policy due to new federal Department of Transportation regulations that the airline says make it increasingly difficult and risky for it to accommodate through-checked bags on separate tickets.

"Hawaiian Airlines faces serious fines if we through-check bags between carriers on separate tickets and incorrectly apply the carriers' bag rules," Hawaiian said in a question-and-answer section on its website. "That rule means we can no longer afford to accommodate through-checked bags as a courtesy to our guests unless the travel is on a single ticket."

The airline said it also was concerned by incidents in which passengers through-checked their bags from other airlines on separate tickets and had bags delayed.

"It was possible, when booking tickets separately, to circumvent the minimum connection times intended to ensure that bags have time to connect between flights," Hawaiian said on its website. "It is too difficult to be as vigilant as we would like in handling our guests' baggage without the control provided by a true interline or code-share booking. This is an important distinction. When the connecting flights between airlines are booked on the same ticket, our systems are able to consistently apply the baggage rules and ensure adequate connecting time for your bags."

Code-sharing allows a carrier to sell flights on another carrier. Interline e-ticketing allows customers to purchase a single e-ticket, check in once at their originating airport, receive boarding passes for connecting flights and pick up their luggage at the final destination.

The DOT regulations require, in part, that airlines apply the same baggage allowances and fees throughout a passenger's journey if their ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point. If you fly on two or more airlines with one ticket, you will pay a baggage fee only once. If you have separate tickets, you may need to pay a baggage fee each time you change airlines.

Hawaiian said it has interline and code-share agreements with a wide range of domestic and international airlines that allow passengers to book flights operated by multiple carriers on the same ticket.

"We never did have a provision that would through-check bags booked on separate tickets," Wagner said.

Wagner said the change in Hawaiian's policy is not an attempt to generate more revenue, but airline analyst Bob Mann disagreed.

"This is clearly a revenue enhancement effort designed to defeat split-ticketing and preserve their higher O&D (origin and destination) pricing," said Mann, president of Port Washington, N.Y.-based R.W. Mann & Co.

"Hawaiian has better nonstop, through and connecting service, O&D service for which they hope to extract a premium."

———

On the Net:

» www.hawaiianair.com/help/Pages/Interline-Baggage-Statement.aspx

Supposed to have made the 5pm kgmb news as well. I just missed it.. Standing by for the 6pm.

Okay, the tv news story was essentially the same as the printed story sans the flyertalk reference and quote. The advantage that it was not buried a bit in the newspaper. They found a Kona resident who books his inter-island ticket separate from his mainland flights to save money.

Glad that this issue is finally out there for people to see. Now whether it was really understood remains to be seen.

Announcing service to Sapporo on same day just a coincidence?

Story (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/18248687/hawaiian-airlines-plans-baggage-procedure-change)

Now an upcoming change could affect customers like Bertsch who transfer to connecting flights in Honolulu. Travelers will be affected if a connecting flight is not on Hawaiian, and the flight between Honolulu and the mainland or an overseas destination is booked separately from the interisland ticket. Passengers will have to go out and claim their bags, run them through an agriculture screening in Honolulu, re-check the luggage, pay any baggage fees and then pass through security again.

A spokesman for Hawaiian Airlines said an overwhelming majority of the company's customers should see no change at all since most travel on single-ticket itineraries.

So here's a question: assuming this doesn't change, and my family is on a DL or UA flight to Hawaii, and then have to change to an HA flight. Can I pickup the luggage and check the bags in for everyone myself (they taking the WikiWiki shuttle between terminals), or do they also have to exit the one concourse w/ their bags, and be present at recheckin?

Also, is this change effective both ways:

- mainland to first HI island
- get bags, checkin with HA, pay fees
- board plane to second HI island
{fun & sun}
- checkin with HA, pay fees
- fly to second HI island
- get bags, checkin with mainline carriers, go home poorer (:

?

Jeff

So here's a question: assuming this doesn't change, and my family is on a DL or UA flight to Hawaii, and then have to change to an HA flight. Can I pickup the luggage and check the bags in for everyone myself (they taking the WikiWiki shuttle between terminals), or do they also have to exit the one concourse w/ their bags, and be present at recheckin?

Also, is this change effective both ways:

- mainland to first HI island
- get bags, checkin with HA, pay fees
- board plane to second HI island
{fun & sun}
- checkin with HA, pay fees
- fly to second HI island
- get bags, checkin with mainline carriers, go home poorer (:

?

Jeff

All passengers will have to be present with ID to get the HA boarding passes, so yes and no, you can collect all the bags, and they can ride the wiki wiki, then exit out of secure side to meet you at checkin. However, your second question is the overriding one. So far, I have not heard a peep out of UA about this issue, so if your mainland departure on UA or DL does tag your bags to the final destination, the bags should be transferred automatically on your flights to the islands. You will only have a bag re-check hassle on your return, when HA is your originating flight. The only safe answer at this point is to be sure you have approx. a 2 hour layover in HNL so you can deal with the issue. And try to book all your travel either directly to the island of choice, or if connecting on a HA flight, purchase all flights on a single ticket in the future.

All passengers will have to be present with ID to get the HA boarding passes, so yes and no, you can collect all the bags, and they can ride the wiki wiki, then exit out of secure side to meet you at checkin...

Boarding passes can be preprinted. So my family members could just go directly between the mainfland and interisland terminals, and not have exit and reclear security?

Jeff

On HA's statement, they say they will not accept through checked bags from mainland carriers. I'm not an expert on airline baggage management so I'm not sure how they will know which bags are on separate ticket if they are through-checked. But I'd plan on having to pick up your bags both ways and rechecking them to be on the safe side. See the 2nd sentence of the first paragraph.

http://www.hawaiianair.com/help/pages/Interline-Baggage-Statement.aspx

I would think one person in each party would have to be present to check-in luggage otherwise you'll be hit with a massive amount of luggage fees (for going beyond the 1st/2nd pieces of luggage).

I have not read all of the pages regarding this matter but here is my two cents. This is all about money! I did this on our most recent trip to Hawaii. Traveling from LAX-HNL on AA then HNL-LIH on HA. Long story as to why I had two seperate tickets. Anyhow, when we checked in at the AA counter at LAX I asked the agent to check our bags thru to LIH. NO PROBLEM! We had 3 bags so that just cost HA about $50.

Someone posted that tickets from the mainland to the islands are purchased on the same PNR so there is no problem. But for some folks, the savings from buying a interisland conection through HA versus say AA could be alot depending on the number of passengers. Now, there may be no savings at all. I just wish they would go back to "free" baggage allowance and just include it in the ticket price. Maybe 1 bag per passenger and then everything else gets a charge. Also, put every bag in the sizer. If it doesn't fit, it gets checked. I am tired of seeing suitcases getting on the plane or the plane being delayed because they are gate checking bags.

...Someone posted that tickets from the mainland to the islands are purchased on the same PNR so there is no problem...

I'd bet that there are a HUGE number of tickets that are purchased on separate reservations. I know that before Delta purhased Northwest, I think they only flew to HNL or OGG (and finding FF seats on the OGG flight next to impossible). If US flew there, I think it was only to HNL.

I'm sure many people were like me who used a mainline carrier to get to HNL, and then bought separate interisland tickets to get to their final destination.

If I really have to give Hawaiian $17 per bag to transport by bag, fine. But they NEED to find a way to not require the bag to have to be picked up and rechecked in. That's just STUPID! I'm guessing neither the airlines nor TSA are going to increase staffing to accomodate this. Hopefully the Hawaii tourist board will find a way that the first and last experience on their islands won't be miserable.

Jeff

On HA's statement, they say they will not accept through checked bags from mainland carriers.

only if they are not on the same itinerary.

-David


...
Anyhow, when we checked in at the AA counter at LAX I asked the agent to check our bags thru to LIH. NO PROBLEM!
...


As the thread title says, the implementation date is currently June 1.

-David

Uncool. Really, really uncool.

I wanted to clarify something that has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but that I cannot find on HA's Web site: is the plan that HA will stop accepting bags that have been interlined to them from another carrier? How is that supposed to work, exactly, if the first carrier tags all the way through? Are the bags simply going to be unceremoniously dumped out on a belt somewhere at HNL (or, presumably, OGG)?

Reason I ask: it is possible, if you don't need to claim-and-recheck your bags, to go from AC's YVR-HNL to an interisland HA flight. The connection time is about 90 minutes, which is just tight enough to make handling your own bags and re-clearing security dicey. As you might have guessed, I do this connection a lot -- fortunately, I'm usually carry-on only, but I know people who do check, and I'm not looking forward to explaining the procedure if interlined bags get refused.


(I agree with those folks who think this is going to push passengers off HA and on to other carriers: if it's a pain in the neck to move bags through the system, why bother with the interisland segment at all? Some of us don't have a lot of choice, but we do have a few: UA, and more particularly AS once my *G status lapses, here I come.)

Uncool. Really, really uncool.

I wanted to clarify something that has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but that I cannot find on HA's Web site: is the plan that HA will stop accepting bags that have been interlined to them from another carrier? How is that supposed to work, exactly, if the first carrier tags all the way through? Are the bags simply going to be unceremoniously dumped out on a belt somewhere at HNL (or, presumably, OGG)? ..

I keep reading about, "...won't transfer bags that aren't on the same PNR..." So my question is similar to above: if says Delta tags my bag all the way through to another island (regardless if it's on 1 ticket or 2), how exactly will Hawaiian know when the bag gets to the gateway island (typically HNL)? If the PNR is on a baggage ticket, I can't imagine it's in big print. Will Hawaiian inspect EVERY bag, looking for just ones with one PNR?

Going back, it seems a bit easier: have one PNR, HA tags your bag to the mainland; two PNR's, and it's only to your gateway island.

And I guess a question that hasn't been specificially asked: is the only way to get ONE PNR is to buy all your tickets from the same provider (Delta, Expedia, etc)? For example, suppose I'm using FF miles on Delta to HNL, and then I buy a separate HA ticket. Can I call Delta and have them add the HA flight to their PNR, even if I didn't buy that ticket from them.
If it's just a CALL to get all the flights on one PNR, I can handle that. If I have to buy the flights together (as others have mentioned, often more expensive if not impossible), yeah, that'll be a PITA.

Jeff

Think about this regarding bag fee's, pre-this BS. If I fly coach from BOS-HNL-LIH and I am flying AA (AA, BOS-HNL, HA, HNL-LIH), I pay a bag fee at checkin with AA. My bags meet me in LIH. On the return, HA collects my baggage fee and my bags meet me in BOS. Everyone makes money.

It wouldn't surprise me that HA is being made out to be the bad guy. Not that they aren't gulity. Under the new rules, I check my bag at LIH and pay a fee to HA. I then have to pick up mu bag and check it with AA and pay another fee. I haven't read anything about the mainland carriers saying this was a bad thing.

Also, like someone said, how will HA know if the bags are on the same PNR? Using AA as an example, if I check in at LAX I am sure that the agents know not to check my bags thru to LIH. If I check in at BOS, will those agents really know any better? I am sure there would be a computer block.

Like I said, charge more and include at least one bag. That would take care of things and one less thing for the traveler to worry about.

For example, suppose I'm using FF miles on Delta to HNL, and then I buy a separate HA ticket. Can I call Delta and have them add the HA flight to their PNR, even if I didn't buy that ticket from them?


No, that won't yield one PNR. One needs to achieve the routing as a single purchase transaction. Airline XX award + HA inter-island paid isn't going to work.

As for HA cracking down on Delta through-checking a Hawaii-bound bag on separate PNRs, I suspect there's a clause in the interline baggage agreement between DL and HA that allows HA to reject such bags (or charge back DL).

As for HA cracking down on Delta through-checking a Hawaii-bound bag on separate PNRs, I suspect there's a clause in the interline baggage agreement between DL and HA that allows HA to reject such bags. . .

Practically speaking, I don't see this happening.

I think HA will inform their "partner" airlines of their policy and ask them to stop inter-lining bags on different PNRs. But if the partner does it, and bags show up in Hawaii checked through to HA, I don't believe HA will be able to do anything other than accept the bag.

If a passenger checks in with a HA partner, and that partner does what they've always done and checks the bag all the way through, HA is not going to refuse to accept the bag and just leave it in the city of arrival.

That's too harsh -- even for the new 'alohaless' HA. :(

Does anyone know if HA will still have the check in desk post security in the interisland terminal. Am traveling on 6/1 ATL-HNL Delta and HNL-KOA HA and planned to check in there (no checked bags to worry about). I know I can check in online...just trying to plan for it.

Wirelessly posted (iPhone-ETOPS: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_1_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B206 Safari/7534.48.3)

Does anyone know if HA will still have the check in desk post security in the interisland terminal. Am traveling on 6/1 ATL-HNL Delta and HNL-KOA HA and planned to check in there (no checked bags to worry about). I know I can check in online...just trying to plan for it.

I don't see how they'll get rid of those desks since even HNL-originating pax use them (e.g., standby for an earlier flight). They may just not be as staffed as well.

As an OGG resident, I've done considerable mainland and international routing via HNL (UA 1K), all of which entailed inter-island hops on HA. In part, I did this to support a local business.
Going forward, however, I'll be routing directly with mainland carriers because it simply isn't worth the risks and hassles associated with checking bags twice. Hawaiian will lose far more business from me than the corresponding cost savings. Memo to Hawaiian: stop being so customer unfriendly, it's going to hurt all of us who live on the islands and rely on tourism.

I wanted to clarify something that has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but that I cannot find on HA's Web site: is the plan that HA will stop accepting bags that have been interlined to them from another carrier?

That's what they are saying. Nobody here has any idea how/if it will work.

Your case is even more complicated because it's an international itinerary which are governed by different rules.

As an OGG resident, ...

With location "EWR"? :)

-David

I'd be REALLY surprised, if on any interline baggage transfer, if a downstream airline would reject a bag tagged for it's airline (assuming the airlines have interlining agreements). I have to think the best Hawaiian can do is send letters to all the airlines, instructing them not to tag bags that are on different PNR's.

I'd have to re-read the original reason HA gave for this change, but from what I remember, I thought it was basically so it looked like they were in compliance with the FAA regulation. If they can say that they informed all the other airlines, that might be good enough to challenge any complaint brought against them.

And of course, this only benefits inbound flights to Hawaii, where if either the airline or an agent tags your bags all the way through, you're probably in good shape. I'd have to think on departure, if you are flying HA then connecting to a mainland-based airline, if your ducks aren't in a row then, you'll be picking up and checking in twice.

Jeff

Hawaii has always been a big destination for mileage reward trips on all the airlines. This is going to disproportionately hit people who have saved miles for years for that big family trip to the islands where miles gets them there and then they get local tickets to island hop. These are generally the less sophisticated travelers anyway regarding arcane airline rules so the least likely to understand while booking things, even via a TA. This will be really great for the Hawaii Tourism folks - I can't wait to see the human interest stories that get written on the mainland about families that get screwed by this.

That's what they are saying. Nobody here has any idea how/if it will work.

Your case is even more complicated because it's an international itinerary which are governed by different rules.



With location "EWR"? :)

-David

Two homes. Believe it, or not, I actually commute between EWR and OGG (it almost takes about as long as driving on the garden-st.ate parkway:)).
I normally take the UA EWR-HNL nonstop with the HA inter-island hop. But, just today booked UA RT all the way (EWR-SFO-OGG). Sorry, HA, but you lost me with this one...

That's what they are saying. Nobody here has any idea how/if it will work.

Your case is even more complicated because it's an international itinerary which are governed by different rules.



With location "EWR"? :)

-David

Just looked at your location. Makawao! I'm just around the corner off Kokomo in Ha'iku. But, sadly, in Newark today. Miss the trade winds and my lychee... :)

Is this a risk is for those who must connect with international carriers in HNL (HA has a large number of foreign visitors)? Will HA bear any responsibility for bags that they don't interline and miss an international connection?

I've used SW (which also doesn't interline bags) for some short mainland hops - always on its own PNR. But, I prefer a mainstream carrier whenever I need to make an international connection -- precisely because I can't risk having a mishandled bag remain on a SW carousel for the duration of an international journey.

Just looked at your location. Makawao! I'm just around the corner off Kokomo in Ha'iku. But, sadly, in Newark today. Miss the trade winds and my lychee... :)

And in the mid 80's, I lived in Fair Haven, NJ. :)

-David

With HA's upcoming changes to their interline baggage policy, I'm thinking Go! Mukulele's inter-island flights just became a lot more attractive. I know they have a pretty awful reputation, but I just called and confirmed they have an interline agreement in place with Delta (and probably others). I think I may take my chances with Go! Mukulele if it means I don't have to go to the ridiculous length of re-checking my bags with HA to catch an inter-island flight. Any reason this might be a bad decision?

With HA's upcoming changes to their interline baggage policy, I'm thinking Go! Mukulele's inter-island flights just became a lot more attractive. . . . Any reason this might be a bad decision?

Hmmm. Where do I begin? Crappy planes, surly staff, far fewer flight time options, poor reliability record, sub-par terminal area at HNL, and a history of unethical business practices pretty much rule them out for me. And yes, I have actually flown them and experienced their service, if you want to call it that.

I think a broad based email campaign against HA's new policy is the only way to go, but HA has not been a consumer friendly outfit for some time now, so they may not listen.

And in the mid 80's, I lived in Fair Haven, NJ. :)

-David

Well, it's tropical storm season already and EWR has flight delays out the wazoo because of low visability, fog and clouds. I'll take ogg any day. What's with the BKK link? Great place if you have wits about you!;)

Just to clarify: If I fly DEN-OGG on UA and return OGG-HNL (HA) then HNL-DEN (UA) on the same PNR, then the DOT baggage rule applies to all flights and HA will not collect a baggage fee since UA was the marketing carrier and since I am Gold with UA, they waive the baggage fee. Also all baggages will be checked through to the final destination.

Am I understanding this correctly?

... history of unethical business practices

And that's an understatement.

pretty much rule them out for me. And yes, I have actually flown them and experienced their service, if you want to call it that.

Ditto here.

I think a broad based email campaign against HA's new policy is the only way to go, but HA has not been a consumer friendly outfit for some time now, so they may not listen.

So very different than back in 2004 when an HNL-based HA staff member (in a department that HA later closed :)) was assigned to me when moving by airline business to them.

Just to clarify: If I fly DEN-OGG on UA and return OGG-HNL (HA) then HNL-DEN (UA) on the same PNR, then the DOT baggage rule applies to all flights and HA will not collect a baggage fee since UA was the marketing carrier and since I am Gold with UA, they waive the baggage fee. Also all baggages will be checked through to the final destination.

Am I understanding this correctly?
In theory. ;)

Unfortunately, HA may try to charge you $17 for the OGG-HNL portion of your itinerary (unless you have status with HA as well). Buried at the bottom of UA's "checked baggage fees (http://www.united.com/CMS/en-US/travel/Pages/CheckedBaggage.aspx)" page is the following:

"When a customer travels on a codeshare flight or on an aircraft operated by a Star Alliance member airline, then the policy regarding checked bags follows the rules determined by the originating operating carrier."

For the return portion of your itinerary, so HA would be considered "the originating operating carrier", so it's fees and policies would apply. However, HA's "Bag Fees and Policies (http://www.hawaiianair.com/help/bag-fees-id-80)" page presents somewhat contradictory information:

"For reservations connecting with other airlines, the baggage fees and rules of the first marketing carrier applies throughout the itinerary. For example, if you are traveling roundtrip from Honolulu, Hawaii to Austin, Texas, and connecting from Hawaiian Airlines to United Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines baggage fees and rules would apply both ways."

Since your itinerary is on the same PNR, your bags will be checked through to the final destination; however, whether or not you pay a baggage fee for HA's OGG-HNL of it is pretty much up to the discretion of the HA agent (and their supervisor). Airlines and their employees aren't really clear on the differences among a "marketing carrier", an "operating carrier", and a "most significant carrier" and which airline's baggage policies and fee schedule should prevail in codeshare/interline situations.

I think a broad based email campaign against HA's new policy is the only way to go, but HA has not been a consumer friendly outfit for some time now, so they may not listen.
It might be more effective to complain to the DOT in addition to HA. Here's a link to the DOT's online "Air Travel Complaint/Comment" form...:cool:
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/es.cfm

..."For reservations connecting with other airlines, the baggage fees and rules of the first marketing carrier applies throughout the itinerary. For example, if you are traveling roundtrip from Honolulu, Hawaii to Austin, Texas, and connecting from Hawaiian Airlines to United Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines baggage fees and rules would apply both ways."....

This is confusing. Assuming:
- HA OGG-HNL then UA HNL-AUS
- status on UA; no status on HA

I'd definitely expect HA to collect for the OGG-HNL flight; hopefully also waive the HNL-AUS fee on UA. However, on the reverse path, will UA give you free baggage for their AUS-HNL flight, but then charge you $17 for the HNL-OGG portion? I mean, I'd pay the $17 not to have to pick up my bag at HNL and recheck it with HA. But how could UA collect it? If they could, that would mean they'd need to distinguish on the baggage tag which bags should get transferred all the way through, vs which ones stop once the original carrier is done transporting it.

Sadly counting down the 10 days so we can start to hear how this actually plays out...

Jeff

This is confusing. Assuming:
- HA OGG-HNL then UA HNL-AUS
- status on UA; no status on HA

I'd definitely expect HA to collect for the OGG-HNL flight; hopefully also waive the HNL-AUS fee on UA. However, on the reverse path, will UA give you free baggage for their AUS-HNL flight, but then charge you $17 for the HNL-OGG portion? I mean, I'd pay the $17 not to have to pick up my bag at HNL and recheck it with HA. But how could UA collect it? If they could, that would mean they'd need to distinguish on the baggage tag which bags should get transferred all the way through, vs which ones stop once the original carrier is done transporting it.

Sadly counting down the 10 days so we can start to hear how this actually plays out...

Jeff
It's just as confusing for the airlines...:(

Let's examine this in a little more detail. I assume that your HNL-OGG and OGG-HNL flights on HA are codeshares. In other words, you purchased them from UA along with your DEN-HNL and HNL-DEN flights and they have flight numbers ranging from "UA 7789" to "UA 7878" and are "operated by Hawaiian Airlines." In this situation, UA is the "first marketing carrier" and for the interisland flights, HA is the "operating carrier." Things get even more complicated when the "originating operating carrier" definition is thrown into the mix. For the DEN-HNL/HNL-OGG legs of your itinerary, UA is the "originating operating carrier" and for the OGG-HNL/HNL-OGG legs, HA is the "originating operating carrier." Fortunately, since your entire itinerary has the same PNR, HA's change in its baggage policy won't affect you -- your bags will be checked all the way through from DEN to OGG and from OGG to DEN.

As I pointed out in a previous post, UA's and HA's policies aren't exactly "in sync" when it comes to codeshares. In a nutshell, UA says that it's up to the "originating operating carrier" (which is HA for the "OGG-HNL/HNL-DEN portion" of your itinerary) to set the baggage rules and fees, while HA says that the baggage rules and fees of the "first marketing carrier" (which is UA) apply throughout the itinerary. Unfortunately, whoever came up with and approved HA's policy for codeshares are idiots, because it's foolish for an airline to give its "codeshare partner" that kind of authority.

Next, let's throw "frequent flyer status" into the mix. A "Premier Gold (http://www.united.com/CMS/en-US/travel/Pages/BaggageChecked.aspx)" on UA is able to check up to three pieces of baggage weighing a maximum of 70 pounds each for no additional charge. Unfortunately, HA's top-level "Pualani Platinum (http://www.hawaiianair.com/HawaiianMiles/membership-levels/)" members don't have it that good -- they're only able to check up to three pieces of luggage weighing a maximum of 50 pounds each for no additional charge. If a HA "Pualani Platinum" checks in a bag that weighs over 50 pounds, they're going to get hit with an "overweight baggage fee." Based on HA's stated policy of allowing the "first marketing carrier" to set the baggage rules and fees for the entire itinerary, a UA "Premier Gold" should be able to check a bag on a codeshare ("operated by Hawaiian Airlines") that weighs up to 70 pounds without paying an additional baggage fee or an "overweight" fee. Needless to say, it's probably not in HA's best interest to give a "perk" to another carrier's elite customers that it doesn't provide for its own.

In practice, a UA "Premier Gold" can check a 70 pound bag on the DEN-HNL/HNL-OGG leg of an itinerary that's on a single PNR and have it get to OGG without paying an additional baggage fee or even an "overweight" fee to HA. However, if that same UA "Premier Gold" checks in a 70 pound bag on the OGG-HNL/HNL-OGG legsof that itinerary, it's going to trigger at least an "overweight" fee on HA and some "head scratching" by HA's employees. If HA didn't allow the "first marketing carrier" to set the baggage rules and fees for the entire itinerary, it could rightfully charge that UA "Premier Gold" a $17 baggage fee along with an additional $25 "overweight" fee to check a 70 pound bag on the OGG-HNL portion of the itinerary. Sometimes, HA will waive the baggage fees and "overweight" fee for a UA "Premier Gold" that checks a 70 pound bag in such a situation, and sometimes, it doesn't -- it all depends on which HA agent (and/or HA supervisors) the UA "Premier Gold" deals with. However, as it stands now, HA is pretty much screwing itself along with its elite frequent flyers, until it further refines its official baggage policy as it pertains to codeshares.

Any airline pursuing a codeshare agreement should (at the very least) exchange data concerning the following:
1. General baggage allowances and fee levels;
2. Which customers qualify for special fees or exemptions, eg. "elite frequent flyers", "active-duty military", "affiliated credit card holders", etc.; and
3, Which airline's baggage fees and policies take precedence and in what situations.

Mergers between airlines are like a marriage, while codeshare agreements are like "living together." In both situations, it's wise to know what one is getting into and perhaps hash out a thorough "prenup" or "cohabitation" agreement...;)

It's just as confusing for the airlines...:(

... I assume that your HNL-OGG and OGG-HNL flights on HA are codeshares....;)

Great explanation, but...how about with a redo, on the assumption that the HA flights are separately purchased from the to/from mainland flights. That's what I'll be looking at: FF flight probably to HNL, with then separately purchased interisland flights.

Jeff

Great explanation, but...how about with a redo, on the assumption that the HA flights are separately purchased from the to/from mainland flights. That's what I'll be looking at: FF flight probably to HNL, with then separately purchased interisland flights.

Jeff
Unfortunately, that situation wouldn't be a codeshare. :(

The FAQ section of HA's "Interline Baggage Statement (http://www.hawaiianair.com/help/Pages/Interline-Baggage-Statement.aspx)" says the following:

What will happen to my bags if I am connecting to a Hawaiian Airlines flight that is booked on a separate ticket? Will I have to pay baggage fees?
If you are booked on separate tickets with another airline connecting to Hawaiian Airlines, you will need to collect your bags from the baggage belt upon your arrival at the connection airport and re-check the bags with a Hawaiian Airlines agent. At that time, baggage fees may apply.

If you do book separate tickets on Hawaiian Airlines and another carrier, please leave yourself ample time to collect and re-check your luggage. We have made a significant investment in streamlining the check-in process at our Honolulu hub, and we hope you will find it quick and hassle-free. But please verify the recommended check-in times for the flight to which you are connecting, and leave yourself ample time to re-check your bags and clear security.


After June 1, 2012, if HA has properly communicated its revised baggage policy to UA, UA should only check your bag(s) through to HNL for your DEN-HNL flight. Next, you'll go through security prior to boarding your UA flight. After you arrive at HNL, you'll have to retrieve your bag(s) at UA's baggage claim area ("Baggage Claim H") at the main terminal, take it (or them) over to the interisland terminal and check it (or them) again for your HNL-OGG flight with HA, paying a baggage fee of $17 per bag (or more for a bag that's "overweight" and/or "oversized"). Next, you'll have to go through security again prior to boarding your HA flight.

For the return OGG-HNL trip, you'll have to check in with HA, paying a baggage fee of $17 per bag (or more for a bag that's "overweight" and/or "oversized"). The HA agent should only check your bag(s) through to HNL. Next, you'll go through security prior to boarding your HA flight. After you arrive at HNL, you'll have to retreive your bag(s) from HA's baggage claim area ("Baggage Claim B" or "Baggage Claim C") at the interisland terminal and take them to the main terminal at HNL. Next, you'll have to get your bag(s) inspected by "ag (http://hawaii.gov/hnl/ticketing-check-in/agriculture-inspection)." After that, you check your bag(s) with UA for the HNL-DEN flight and go through security again.

Prior to the implementation of HA's policy change, UA would've probably checked your bag(s) all the way through from DEN to OGG. Similarly, HA would've checked your bag(s) all the way through from OGG to DEN. Now, you'll most likely have to retrieve your bag(s) at HNL, check it (or them) in again, and go through security again. Considering the hassle that's been introduced, it's probably no longer worthwhile to separately book one's interisland flights on HA, unless one plans to spend at least a day or two on Oʻahu sightseeing, shopping, surfing, visiting friends and relatives, etc.

This is confusing. Assuming:
- HA OGG-HNL then UA HNL-AUS
- status on UA; no status on HA

I'd definitely expect HA to collect for the OGG-HNL flight; hopefully also waive the HNL-AUS fee on UA. However, on the reverse path, will UA give you free baggage for their AUS-HNL flight, but then charge you $17 for the HNL-OGG portion? I mean, I'd pay the $17 not to have to pick up my bag at HNL and recheck it with HA. But how could UA collect it? If they could, that would mean they'd need to distinguish on the baggage tag which bags should get transferred all the way through, vs which ones stop once the original carrier is done transporting it.

Sadly counting down the 10 days so we can start to hear how this actually plays out...

Jeff

This is my interpretation of your scenario based on whether both HA and UA flights are on the same ticket/PNR, as well as if they were wholly separate tickets:

Single Ticket/PNR:
OGG to AUS
Despite having status on UA, you pay HA's baggage fees. But since your flights for both HA and UA are on the same PNR, your bags will be checked all the way to AUS and you won't have to pay another fee nor have to claim and recheck your bags in HNL.

AUS to OGG
Your UA status should at least get your bags to HNL for free, but you bring up a good point as to whether you'll get charged for HNL-OGG. If this is a single ticket, my gut says your bags will be through-checked to OGG and you won't be levied additional fees due to your status, but I guess we'll all find out next week how this pans out.

Separate Tickets (one for UA, one for HA):
OGG to AUS
HA collects for the OGG-HNL flight. Your UA status will allow you to get your bags from HNL-AUS for free, but as KOADude mentioned previously, you'll have to claim your baggage downstairs, then lug it over to UA's check-in counter clear on the other side of the airport. Check-in bags then reclear security.

AUS to OGG
Your UA status gets your bags to HNL for free, but you'll have to claim your baggage downstairs, then lug it over to HA's check-in counter clear on the other side of the airport. Check-in bags, which HA will collect their fees for, then reclear security.

I thought that the new DOT rules say that the baggage rules/fees of the 1st carrier (or marketing carrier in the case of codeshares) govern the entire trip. So if on a single itinerary then something like SFO-HNL-KOA-HNL-SFO where the ticket is on UA overwater and HA interisland would have to be treated as UA at both SFO and KOA. I.e., when checking in for the return at KOA the UA weight and fee rules would apply.

I thought that the new DOT rules say that the baggage rules/fees of the 1st carrier (or marketing carrier in the case of codeshares) govern the entire trip. So if on a single itinerary then something like SFO-HNL-KOA-HNL-SFO where the ticket is on UA overwater and HA interisland would have to be treated as UA at both SFO and KOA. I.e., when checking in for the return at KOA the UA weight and fee rules would apply.It would seem so. Unfortunately, page 23151 of Vol. 76, No. 79 of the Federal Register (http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/Consumer2%20-%20Federal%20Register.pdf) obfuscates the issue:

This final rule requires that for passengers whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, the baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of the itinerary apply throughout the itinerary. In the case of code-share flights that form part of an itinerary whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a point in the U.S., the final rule requires that the baggage allowances and fees of the marketing carrier apply throughout the itinerary to the extent that they differ between the marketing carrier and the operating carrier.

Marketing carriers and operating carriers have no idea exactly what the phrase "to the extent that they differ" actually means. Does it allow an operating carrier to impose more restrictive baggage policies than a marketing carrier? Or is an operating carrier forced to accept a marketing carriers more liberal baggage policies?

Common sense would seem to dictate that an operating carrier's more restrictive baggage policies should take precedence, but it's still somewhat unclear for most airlines and their representatives. :(

With the "elite frequent flyer" situation that I illustrated in a previous post, the US DOT's "Answers to Frequently Asked Questions Concerning the Enforcement of the Second Final Rule on Enhancing Airline Passenger Protections (EAPP #2) (http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ_01-11-2012final.pdf)" states the following on page 38:

It is up to the carriers to coordinate among themselves to determine whether, based on the passenger’s eligibility for reduced or waived baggage fees for one or more segments of an itinerary, the reduced or waived baggage fees apply to the entire itinerary. The carriers are jointly responsible for sharing information regarding the baggage allowances and fees that will apply to those itineraries and coordinating among themselves to ensure that passengers are provided accurate information about the baggage allowances and fees that will apply to their itinerary and ensuring that passengers are not charged additional or higher baggage fees than those that were disclosed at the time of sale. For example, a carrier could change its frequent flyer rules to make clear that the free baggage allowance only applies when all of the flights on a passenger’s itinerary are operated by that carrier with no code-share or interlining. Alternatively a carrier can make clear that the baggage fee waiver is provided only on certain segments as a courtesy.

It's a mess that's going to take some time for airlines to sort out. :rolleyes:

I had forgotten all about the fact that HA's baggage counter at HNL is at the interisland terminal. Wow -- this is going to be a mess. HA really should figure out how to have a baggage drop in the main terminal. The wiki-wiki bus is really not designed, as I recall, to have large numbers of 40 lb. bags.

It would seem so. Unfortunately, page 23151 of Vol. 76, No. 79 of the Federal Register (http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/Consumer2%20-%20Federal%20Register.pdf) obfuscates the issue:

It's a mess that's going to take some time for airlines to sort out. :rolleyes:

Better yet, call your Rep or Sen and give them Hail Columbia.

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions Concerning the Enforcement of the Second Final Rule on Enhancing Airline Passenger Protections (EAPP #2)[/URL]" states the following on page 38:

It is up to the carriers to coordinate among themselves to determine whether, based on the passenger’s eligibility for reduced or waived baggage fees for one or more segments of an itinerary, the reduced or waived baggage fees apply to the entire itinerary. The carriers are jointly responsible for sharing information regarding the baggage allowances and fees that will apply to those itineraries and coordinating among themselves to ensure that passengers are provided accurate information about the baggage allowances and fees that will apply to their itinerary and ensuring that passengers are not charged additional or higher baggage fees than those that were disclosed at the time of sale. For example, a carrier could change its frequent flyer rules to make clear that the free baggage allowance only applies when all of the flights on a passenger’s itinerary are operated by that carrier with no code-share or interlining. Alternatively a carrier can make clear that the baggage fee waiver is provided only on certain segments as a courtesy.

It's a mess that's going to take some time for airlines to sort out. :rolleyes:

Definitely obfuscation.

Here's a case in point that points out these idiosyncrasies:

I just came back from a trip that had this itinerary in the return direction: HNL-SFO-IAD. HNL-SFO was HA, connecting to VX in SFO to IAD. Two flights were booked as one ticket. The HA flight was in Y, where the booking class is such that checked baggage fees apply. The VX flight was Main Cabin Select (MCS), where no baggage fees apply to the first checked bag. HA wanted to charge $25 for the checked bag from HNL to SFO and then interline the bag to the VX flight from SFO to IAD, without charge on the VX side of the itinerary. I ended up taking my luggage as a carry-on to avoid the fees on the first leg of the itinerary. It so happened that my HA flight arrived 30 minutes late into SFO, thus leaving me with less than 45 minutes in connection time between the International Terminal, using the Air Train to go to Terminal 2 and then check-in at VX. VX told me that I missed the cut off to check-in bags for MCS and could not guarantee that a checked bag would be on the same flight. I ended up having carry-ons from HNL all the way to IAD, given the situation.

Indeed, baggage fees, T&Cs that go with the booking class of your fare and simply airline operations in general still make travel somewhat of an adventure.

Any reports as to how this is going?

I ended up having carry-ons from HNL all the way to IAD, given the situation.


why didn't you gate check it at SFO for the 2nd leg? Just wondering.

Anyway, I never check bags unless i have to.

-David

why didn't you gate check it at SFO for the 2nd leg? Just wondering.

Anyway, I never check bags unless i have to.

-David

Because VX told me in SFO that they "might gate check the bag for me". Didn't trust the hedge response from the check-in counter staff since the gate was about to close so I took my bag on board as a carry-on.

Any reports as to how this is going?

Flew into KOA through HNL 6-1. One PNR with Delta. I could not check bags online or at the kiosk at the original airport. The agent said she had to do it manually since the last leg was HA???? I did not have to pay for the bags. Other than that, I didnt hear alot of complaints.....I did notice that only one desk was staffed in the inter-island terminal for check in past security for HA....

Flew into KOA through HNL 6-1. I did notice that only one desk was staffed in the inter-island terminal for check in past security for HA....

Been that way for a long time.

Just to clarify: If I fly DEN-OGG on UA and return OGG-HNL (HA) then HNL-DEN (UA) on the same PNR, then the DOT baggage rule applies to all flights and HA will not collect a baggage fee since UA was the marketing carrier and since I am Gold with UA, they waive the baggage fee. Also all baggages will be checked through to the final destination.

Am I understanding this correctly?

Well I just got back and this is exactly how it worked! I checked in online with HA from Maui and was able to check two bags free all the way through to Denver including the last two UA legs! No problem at all! ^:)

Does anyone have any recent success/failure stories?

We're flying AC on 6/25 connecting to UA (YYZ-LAX-HNL) on one PNR, with HA booked on it's own PNR for HNL-LIH.

If AC is willing to tag through to LIH (who knows if they're aware of HA's new rules), do you think we'll have issues receiving our bags or might they get hung up in HNL because of the new rule?

If AC is willing to tag through to LIH (who knows if they're aware of HA's new rules), do you think we'll have issues receiving our bags or might they get hung up in HNL because of the new rule?

That is indeed the question we all have. Please post your experiences when you have arrived in LIH.

Well I'm a bit gun shy to do it without other reports of success since I'm traveling with the wife and kids. If I was solo I wouldn't think twice about trying it and taking one for the team so to speak if they got hung up in HNL.

My wife will kill me, however, if our bags get stuck in HNL. Heck, not even sure how we'd get them since it's not one PNR. That's my fear in trying this.

Well I'm a bit gun shy to do it without other reports of success since I'm traveling with the wife and kids. If I was solo I wouldn't think twice about trying it and taking one for the team so to speak if they got hung up in HNL.

My wife will kill me, however, if our bags get stuck in HNL. Heck, not even sure how we'd get them since it's not one PNR. That's my fear in trying this.

I can't imagine that HA would refuse a bag that is tagged on their flight. Otherwise it would be a customer service and tourism nightmare. So I think as long as AC tags it through, my guess would be that you are ok. If they won't tag them through, then you know at least 1 of you needs to go landside to claim bags and truck em on over to HA.

To refuse the bag tagged for interlining HA would have to have a tight integration between their baggage routing functions and their reservation function which I very much doubt exists. Remember that there will also be bags coming from an inbound UA flight that are supposed to be interlined because they are for flights on the same PNR. Distinguishing these would require HA to scan the bag, look up the reservation, and check the situation. The actual baggage routing operational stuff has no reason to do any of that - the bag encodes where the bag should be moved to. So it is hard to see how HA would even be aware they should refuse the bag out on the field in HNL. On the other hand, HA may have made all the other airlines aware by now that they should not tag bags this way.

And the next question is what about your return flight? Will HA interline your bags to another carrier in HNL or even allow you to check your bags all the way throught to your final destination on another carrier?

The return flight isn't an issue for us since we're flying LIH-HNL (and will pay HA the bag fees), then staying in Oahu for 5 nights before flying HNL-SFO for 2 nights and finally SFO-YYZ.

We're *G, thus baggage on UA and AC isn't an issue.

We flew from Hawaii to mainland on June 1. It was LIH to HNL on Hawaiian, then from HNL to IAH on UA, on 2 different PNR. We checked in online with Hawaiian on Kauai. At the airport we checked our bags with Hawaiian Air and told the desk agent that our final destination is IAH on UA. She did not even ask for confirmation number but looked us up. She routed the bags to IAH and we did not have to pick up luggage in HNL. The layover was a little more than 2 hours.

We flew from Hawaii to mainland on June 1. It was LIH to HNL on Hawaiian, then from HNL to IAH on UA, on 2 different PNR. We checked in online with Hawaiian on Kauai. At the airport we checked our bags with Hawaiian Air and told the desk agent that our final destination is IAH on UA. She did not even ask for confirmation number but looked us up. She routed the bags to IAH and we did not have to pick up luggage in HNL. The layover was a little more than 2 hours.

very interesting...

My guess on most of this is that it's really going to be up to the agent (either HA or other airline) to enforce the policy. I like others agree if you can get your bag tagged all the way through, it will be transferred. I just can't imagine any airline will look at a tagged bag on the tarmac and effectively try to revalidate it's been "authorized" for transfer. It's too complicated, and there's just not enough time to do it.

While the previous poster's account of their June 1st trip is potentially promising, it's perhaps a bit too soon to guage whether that's the norm or the exception. It's (IMHO) a pretty significant change, without perhaps a lot of press, and it wouldn't surprise me it takes a while to really take effect.

Jeff

We flew from Hawaii to mainland on June 1. It was LIH to HNL on Hawaiian, then from HNL to IAH on UA, on 2 different PNR. We checked in online with Hawaiian on Kauai. At the airport we checked our bags with Hawaiian Air and told the desk agent that our final destination is IAH on UA. She did not even ask for confirmation number but looked us up. She routed the bags to IAH and we did not have to pick up luggage in HNL. The layover was a little more than 2 hours.

Hoping to get the same treatment when we return from Maui in early July...Hopefully, you didn't just get lucky because it was the first day of the new policy.

My wife and I just flew back from ORD-HNL this weekend on UA and connected on to a HA flight from HNL-ITO. We had different PNR's with each airline. The agent in ORD just checked our bags through as usual with no problems. The bags transferred normally and we picked them up in ITO with no problems. It's possible that this happened because the UA agent in ORD was unaware of the HA changes.

My wife and I just flew back from ORD-HNL this weekend on UA and connected on to a HA flight from HNL-ITO. We had different PNR's with each airline. The agent in ORD just checked our bags through as usual with no problems. The bags transferred normally and we picked them up in ITO with no problems. It's possible that this happened because the UA agent in ORD was unaware of the HA changes.
That's encouraging.

I guess we'll see how it works out with us on AC out of YYZ next week. I'll report back our experience as well.

Flying Seoul-FUK-HNL. the first flight on Asiana and the second on Hawaiian. As a star alliance Gold member, I checked three bags for free at ICN. Once I reached Fukuoka, the connecting agent asked me for the extra bag charge.

Do you know whether HA is supposed to charge me eventhough the bag is already checked all the way HNL?

I'm still at the airport trying to resolve the situation.

Flying Seoul-FUK-HNL. the first flight on Asiana and the second on Hawaiian. As a star alliance Gold member, I checked three bags for free at ICN. Once I reached Fukuoka, the connecting agent asked me for the extra bag charge.

Do you know whether HA is supposed to charge me eventhough the bag is already checked all the way HNL?

I'm still at the airport trying to resolve the situation.

This is not a uniquely Hawaiian Air issue. The same thing has happened to me when transferring from UA in HNL to Korean Airlines in C. Though UA allows 3 free checked bags in business class, KE only allows 2. Hence, I had to pay the extra bag charge for the 3rd bag even though I already had my bags checked all the way to the final destination.:mad:

On June 17, I flew OGG-HNL-NRT on HA and then UA on a separate PNR. Anticipating the new pain of a baggage policy, I was ready to pick up my bag and trot over to UA, and booked an earlier HA flight to make sure. I checked in online and paid HA the 17 bucks. When the agent came to tag my bag, I asked if I could interline to United, and she said sure and went over and did a luggage tag based on my UA BP, just like the old days.
She also said something about the system eventually accommodating this sort of thing.
So what's up?

Flying Seoul-FUK-HNL. the first flight on Asiana and the second on Hawaiian. As a star alliance Gold member, I checked three bags for free at ICN. Once I reached Fukuoka, the connecting agent asked me for the extra bag charge.

Do you know whether HA is supposed to charge me eventhough the bag is already checked all the way HNL?

I'm still at the airport trying to resolve the situation.

Let us know what happened...still at FUK?

So what's up?


No clue, but it's good to hear they are accommodating people.

-David

No luck on interline transfers with 2 PNR's for us out of YYZ 6/25.

The AC agent at YYZ couldn't get the record to allow the 2nd PNR to transfer to HA from HNL to LIH so we ended up having to pickup our bags in HNL and recheck with HA which was a PITA.

The agent made 3 phone calls trying to get help editing the record to allow the bag check through to LIH but either she was clueless, the help desk was clueless, or there was some sort of block in the system. Who knows.

I probably could have pushed it further, but with my wife and kids in tow was more interested in getting to the Maple Leaf Lounge to chill before a long day of flights.

On 7/6, we had no problem checking our bags through from OGG to HNL on HA to DEN and DSM on UA despite the HA and UA flights being on different PNRs. The HA staff in OGG even issued boarding passes for the UA segments. They were helpful and cheerful and there was never a mention of any policy about not checking bags through on other airlines. I am one happy camper.

Let us know what happened...still at FUK?

Finally, the connecting agent who was trying to charge me told me that after talking to her supervisor in FUK, she consolidated my checked bags [two of them were very small, and I could have checked only two bags, but I was not expecting a charge]. I was glad with the consolidation, so no extra charge.

I am still unsure whether they are allowed to do the charge per IATA rules on already checked bags.

Well this has sure taken me by surprise.

I am flying OGG-HNL-ORD in a week or so.

The HA agent confirmed to me on the phone that the new rule is in place.

Since I do not want to take a chance, I paid the change fee and moved inter island flight bad an hour to give me enough time to change terminals. I am very familiar with the wiki wiki bus to get to and from the inter island terminal and the other terminal - but that is after security after you check in.

Could someone please explain to me exactly how to go from the inter island terminal after I have picked up my bags to the other terminal where I can re-check my bags for United?

Many thanks.

If you don't find the answer you want in this thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hawaii/761311-guide-questions-concerning-connecting-thru-hnl-other-hawai-i-airports.html
then please post a question there.

Thanks,

cblaisd
Co-Moderator, Hawaii-based Airlines Forum

Has anyone had HA actually enforce this rule yet? It seems from reports on flyertalk that the agents at the airports are allowing interlining despite separate tickets.

If you don't find the answer you want in this thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hawaii/761311-guide-questions-concerning-connecting-thru-hnl-other-hawai-i-airports.html
then please post a question there.

Thanks,

cblaisd
Co-Moderator, Hawaii-based Airlines Forum

Note: I have moved a post that was on this thread in answer to your question to the thread specified above.

Has anyone had HA actually enforce this rule yet? It seems from reports on flyertalk that the agents at the airports are allowing interlining despite separate tickets.

HA ITO agents are enforcing this rule as of June 1st, we've had 3 flights since June 1st originate in ITO with HA and another airline in seperate PNR's and had to retreive bags in HNL for the onward journey.

We have had no problem with AS PDX agents, checked bags through to ITO on HA with seperate PNR's.

HA ITO agents are enforcing this rule as of June 1st, we've had 3 flights since June 1st originate in ITO with HA and another airline in seperate PNR's and had to retreive bags in HNL for the onward journey.

We have had no problem with AS PDX agents, checked bags through to ITO on HA with seperate PNR's.

Thanks, that's the first report I've seen where they've enforced the new policy. This helps for deciding the times of some flights to LIH I need which will be on separate tickets.

Some folks might find that it's increasing difficult to book a connecting flight on the same PNR that falls within the 4 hour "time limit" to avoid having it considered a "stopover."

How so? IMHO (and in my experience), HA has been adding inter-island aircraft and flights, making it increasingly easy to get connection times at HNL of 1.5 to 2 hours, either direction.

On 7/6, we had no problem checking our bags through from OGG to HNL on HA to DEN and DSM on UA despite the HA and UA flights being on different PNRs. The HA staff in OGG even issued boarding passes for the UA segments. They were helpful and cheerful and there was never a mention of any policy about not checking bags through on other airlines. I am one happy camper.

But does HA handle UA at OGG? That might be the differentiating factor and why they were able to issue your BP's for the UA segments.

Frankly, I can't wait for WN to start serving Hawaii. Won't have to worry about baggage fees and onerous change fees!

...Frankly, I can't wait for WN to start serving Hawaii. Won't have to worry about baggage fees and onerous change fees!

If/when WN starts service there, unless they plan on mainland service to ALL the islands, the problem remains. You still need Hawaiian (or Go or IslandAir) to get to other islands.

I'd still say, let me pay my baggage fees in advance, and then have Hawaiian link the reserverations do I don't have to deal with baggage transfers.

Jeff

If/when WN starts service there, unless they plan on mainland service to ALL the islands, the problem remains. You still need Hawaiian (or Go or IslandAir) to get to other islands.

Jeff

No problem for me! I go to Oahu exclusively. Plus, if WN is smart, they will do a baggage agreement with, say, Go!

Plus, if WN is smart, they will do a baggage agreement with, say, Go!

lol. that's really funny.

was that intended, or just an accident?

-David

lol. that's really funny.

was that intended, or just an accident?

-David

Do they go hand in hand ;) ?

If/when WN starts service there, unless they plan on mainland service to ALL the islands, the problem remains. You still need Hawaiian (or Go or IslandAir) to get to other islands.
No problem for me! I go to Oahu exclusively.

Oh, but this is WN you're dealing with, so they'll start off with service to a "nonhub" airport. So you'll still need Hawaiian, Go! or Island Air to get to Oahu, after WN drops you off in Hilo. :D

(They would've picked Kalaupapa or Molokai, but weren't sure if the runway lengths would work.)

No problem interlining baggage August 6.

OGG-HNL (HA) to HNL-ORD-YOW(UA). Separate PNRs.

Hello first time flying Hawaiian.

My question is I have flight issued by AA (Award, Same PNR)
LAS-HNL (HA) (Stopover) - HNL-NRT (JL).

Do I need to pay baggage fee for Las Vegas portion?

Hello first time flying Hawaiian.

My question is I have flight issued by AA (Award, Same PNR)
LAS-HNL (HA) (Stopover) - HNL-NRT (JL).

Do I need to pay baggage fee for Las Vegas portion?

How long is your stopover? If its several days then most likely yes. This is in coach correct?

Yes its coach, 48 hours stopover.

I was reading this on HA website "International Check-In Luggage

International baggage rules will apply for entire trip, including domestic segments regardless of stopover, providing the itinerary includes at least one ticketed international point. First international marketing carrier rules apply on any itinerary with an international segment."

I wonder if this will apply in my case since the most significant carrier is JL?

No problem interlining baggage August 6.

OGG-HNL (HA) to HNL-ORD-YOW(UA). Separate PNRs.

Yes, I heard that HA is not enforcing this. I will be traveling next Friday so I'll know for sure and will report.

At the end of July, they were enforcing the interline stuff. My friend was flying from OGG-HNL-ATL-BOS. OGG-HNL was on HA, the remaining was on DL. That said, she purchased the ticket via DL. HA checked her bags all of the way thru to BOS.

Her traveling companion had an award ticket on DL from HNL-ATL-BOS. She purchased an HA ticket from the OGG-HNL leg. At age 65 with a replacemnt hip, she had to take an earlier flight than my friend on HA because she had to retrieve her bags from HA at HNL and recheck them with DL. Even with the earlier flight, she arrived at the DL gate just as DL started to board first class.

It sounds like hit or miss.

Was not enforced when I was traveling August 5-12. Got the agent in SEA to check the bags all the way to KOA on DL 2050->DL 1105->HA 278 and in KOA the agent checked our bags all the way to MSP on HA 387-> DL 1104-> DL 965.

On Aug 13, DCA-ATL-HNL (Delta) and HNL-LIH (HA), separate PNR, no issues checking bags all the way to LIH (all I had to show was my HA boarding pass). On Aug 24, OGG-HNL (HA) and HNL-ATL-DCA (Delta), separate PNR, I was not permitted to check bags through due to new policy. I even went through the agriculture inspection prior and waited in the HA check-in line for 20 minutes only to be told no. I picked up my bags in HNL and rechecked-in for my Delta flight with plenty of time to spare.

Flew ITO - HNL- SFO last night with separate PNR's on HA and United. Bags were transferred with no problem but the HA agent told me that HA would stop transferring bags on separate PNR's very soon. He didn't give or know any specific date.

Will be flying using AA Miles First Class JFK to HNL on HA and then I have to book a different award ticket with AA to go HNL to LIH but again its on HA on the same day.. American system will not allow me to put on one tickets since they don't have first class on the 2nd leg of the flight.. Will I have to reclaim my luggage and check back in? Thanks..

I suspect that when you check in if you show both boarding passes, you will indeed be able to interline your luggage.

I haven't find the answer to this.

I have AA ticket LAS-HNL(stopover)-NRT.

Since this is on one ticket, will most significant carrier rule applies (means baggage rule by JAL?)

Thanks

I believe the answer is no, due to the stopover.

Flew AA two weeks ago, had DFW-HNL award ticket (in First), then separate HA paid ticket HNL-LIH. AA agent at check-in had a hard time checking the bags through, said the system wasn't allowing it - another agent came over and finally pushed it through, said I should've "merged" the two trips/PNR's and then it would've been easy (automatic?).

In any case, it worked out great and was a real relief not to have to get the bags and recheck them in HNL.

Who travels to Hawaii with only carry ons?

Seems easy to do if you do not bring personally owned sports equipment, since bulky heavy winter clothing is not needed.

Anyone have any updated information on this? The last time I traveled from ITO-HNL on HA and connected on to a UA flight to LAX transferring my bag was no problem - that was in early September.

Thanks in advance.

"Exemptions from bag fees related to frequent flyer status on partner airlines may not apply when checking in on Hawaiian."

End of story.

Anyone have any updated information on this? The last time I traveled from ITO-HNL on HA and connected on to a UA flight to LAX transferring my bag was no problem - that was in early September.

Thanks in advance.

Based on actual experience, posters suggest you will be paying to check.

Based on actual experience, posters suggest you will be paying to check.

My question was not related to baggage fees. It was asking if HA will transfer my bags in HNL to my UA flight to Japan. I originate out of ITO. HA ticket and UA tickets are on different PNR's.

My question was not related to baggage fees. It was asking if HA will transfer my bags in HNL to my UA flight to Japan. I originate out of ITO. HA ticket and UA tickets are on different PNR's.

It's not clear. They might do it as a courtesy, but their policy doesn't list any differences for international or domestic itineraries.

-David

On Fri I was able to check a bag HNL-LAX-PDX connecting from HA to VX booked on separate reservations. The agent was extremely nice, but said it is their official policy that they no longer do it. However she said that the enforcement date is in limbo, so as of now all they're doing is informing each pax.

Interestingly, while looking up baggage fees on AS (I'm Pualani Platinum so I normally don't pay the fees) for my return flt PDX-LAS-HNL I found this on the AS website . . .

Effective January 15, 2013: Baggage will only be checked to a stopover point or destination on a single ticket itinerary. Alaska Airlines will no longer check bags through to destinations purchased on a separate ticket. Passengers using multiple tickets to reach their final destination should allow enough time to claim all checked baggage at Alaska Airlines, recheck it with the connecting airline, and pay that airline's applicable baggage fees.
Exception: Alaska Airlines will check bags, without additional fees, to another Alaska Airlines operated flight on a separate ticket, provided the applicable maximum layover time is not exceeded.

http://www.alaskaair.com/content/travel-info/policies/baggage-checked.aspx?lid=nav:travelInfo-policies

Maybe Jan 15 will be THE day . . .

Add US Airways and Delta to the list: http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/today-in-travel/beware-two-ticket-air-trips.html?id=13119956

I agree with the statement at the end...it's only a matter of time before almost everyone else jumps onboard with this.

So I have :
MEM - ATL - HNL - OGG
OGG - HNL - ATL - MEM

On a single DL award, single ticket number. Inter-island flights are HA flight numbers.

No issues checking bags all the way through both directions since it is on one ticket?

I have a 10 hour stopover in HNL on the way home, can I still check all the way through? I don't want to have to reclaim.

Will HA charge me baggage fees in OGG (DL Plat)?

I haven't find the answer to this.

I have AA ticket LAS-HNL(stopover)-NRT.

Since this is on one ticket, will most significant carrier rule applies (means baggage rule by JAL?)

Thanks

I have an OGG-HNL-IAD return flight with the first segment on Hawaiian in Economy. The ticket is booked through UA, full Y class (except for the HA segment) and I'm upgraded on the UA segment. When I checked in I got boarding passes for UA segments too. The system would not let me choose the number of checked bags so I don't know if it was trying to charge me. My UA Premier Platinum number is attached to the reservation. I have no status on Hawaiian, haven't even flown on them in years. I'm confused after stumbling across this thread (only read about 3 pages so far), are they going to charge me baggage fees?
(and to clarify, my ticket does not have a stopover.)

(Haven't been charged fees in many years either, so this is a new thing for me, certainly wasn't expecting it on this expensive ticket.)

I have an OGG-HNL-IAD return flight with the first segment on Hawaiian in Economy. The ticket is booked through UA, full Y class (except for the HA segment) and I'm upgraded on the UA segment. When I checked in I got boarding passes for UA segments too. The system would not let me choose the number of checked bags so I don't know if it was trying to charge me. My UA Premier Platinum number is attached to the reservation. I have no status on Hawaiian, haven't even flown on them in years. I'm confused after stumbling across this thread (only read about 3 pages so far), are they going to charge me baggage fees?
(and to clarify, my ticket does not have a stopover.)

(Haven't been charged fees in many years either, so this is a new thing for me, certainly wasn't expecting it on this expensive ticket.)

Because you're starting your trip on Hawaiian instead of UA, you are subject to Hawaiian's baggage fees. Your UA elite status has no standing with Hawaiian. At least your bags will be checked through to IAD once you pay.

Because you're starting your trip on Hawaiian instead of UA, you are subject to Hawaiian's baggage fees. Your UA elite status has no standing with Hawaiian. At least your bags will be checked through to IAD once you pay.

UA ticket stock and UA flight numbers for the Hawaiian flight are irrelevant in this case, is that right? (I've been on quite a few interlined flights and haven't ever been charged this way before, guess I've been lucky).

UA ticket stock and UA flight numbers for the Hawaiian flight are irrelevant in this case, is that right? (I've been on quite a few interlined flights and haven't ever been charged this way before, guess I've been lucky).

Correct. First carrier's bag rules apply. However they should only charge you the interisland bag fees, not the mainland bag fees.

This is the new HA, so it is unfamiliar to many. Since the entire trip was booked as a single ticket/record#, you will be able to interline the bags to your final destination.

Thanks.

Yea, I've heard some things about Hawaiian not being as customer friendly as they used to be, but the sneak attack on baggage fees is new to be. I say sneak, because right up to today, my itinerary shows that I will not be charged for my first or second bag for the entire trip, including the OGG-HNL segment.

Thanks.

Yea, I've heard some things about Hawaiian not being as customer friendly as they used to be, but the sneak attack on baggage fees is new to be. I say sneak, because right up to today, my itinerary shows that I will not be charged for my first or second bag for the entire trip, including the OGG-HNL segment.

It isn't clear to me when/if it is actually legal for HA to collect this so I'd appreciate a report back on if they actually charge you. The DOT regulations were supposed to make clear at purchase your charge expectations and if you have 0 as what they show and UA as the primary carrier I'm unclear as to whether HA should be able to charge. I had a trip I almost booked (chose a different routing) that would have had me on HA connecting to UA in first class (purchased) where the HA flight was single class and so I'd have been in economy. I certainly would not have expected a charge for HA on such a trip but who knows. I think the DOT has created more confusion and customer unfriendliness than intended by there regs and I'd expect some future adjustments to them.

It isn't clear to me when/if it is actually legal for HA to collect this so I'd appreciate a report back on if they actually charge you. The DOT regulations were supposed to make clear at purchase your charge expectations and if you have 0 as what they show and UA as the primary carrier I'm unclear as to whether HA should be able to charge. I had a trip I almost booked (chose a different routing) that would have had me on HA connecting to UA in first class (purchased) where the HA flight was single class and so I'd have been in economy. I certainly would not have expected a charge for HA on such a trip but who knows. I think the DOT has created more confusion and customer unfriendliness than intended by there regs and I'd expect some future adjustments to them.

Not only was I charged for the interisland flight (UA-marketed and ticketed codeshare), I was also charged for my UA metal flight - and a supervisor wouldn't give on either charge even after I showed her my United confirmation which specifically noted for this particular itinerary that:

Checking bags for this itinerary

Checked baggage service charges are collected at any point in the itinerary where bags are checked. The bag service charges below reflect a maximum outside linear dimension of 62 linear inches (157 cm)

First and second baggage service charges per traveler as listed below:
Sat., Dec. 15, 2012
Maui, HI (OGG) to Washington, DC (IAD - Dulles)
1st bag 2nd bag Weight per bag
$0 $0 70.0 lbs (32 kgs)

The Supervisor (who took her name tag off before she talked to me but someone else told me her first name) told me to take it up with United and ask for reimbursement, then she told me United was responsible for me being charged, then I tried to show her the above information and she refused to look at it. After I complained about her refusing to even look at it, she relented and read it, then she claimed that she could not override the computer and told me I need to take up the issue with the Hawaii Dept. of Consumer Affairs.

None of this garbage was worth my time on the face of the amount of money charged, but I had some time, so decided to take a principled stand on this. I was not left with a favorable impression of Hawaiian Airlines.

If I were you I'd file a DOT complaint in addition to sending UA a note. The bag situation is headed for a real mess and the sooner DOT realizes this and sets clear rules the better for all of us.

If I were you I'd file a DOT complaint in addition to sending UA a note. The bag situation is headed for a real mess and the sooner DOT realizes this and sets clear rules the better for all of us.

+1 Sounds like you have the documentation- I know its a hassle to submit the info but it will help out your fellow travelers and yourself eventually ;)

Not only was I charged for the interisland flight (UA-marketed and ticketed codeshare), I was also charged for my UA metal flight


sorry that's confusing .. HA charged you two separate sets of bag fees for flights to the mainland on the same itinerary?

I think your recourse is with HA, not UA. Please do file a DOT complaint.

-David

sorry that's confusing .. HA charged you two separate sets of bag fees for flights to the mainland on the same itinerary?

I think your recourse is with HA, not UA. Please do file a DOT complaint.

-David

Agreed! There is no mechanism in place for HA to pay UA those bag fees.
They ripped you off & kept the $.

If that had been me in that situation, I would have demanded they just check my bags to HNL and then re-claimed them, took them to UA check in for free baggage. Then when I got home I would have filed a DOT report for violating the new baggage rules.

sorry that's confusing .. HA charged you two separate sets of bag fees for flights to the mainland on the same itinerary?

I think your recourse is with HA, not UA. Please do file a DOT complaint.

-David

I support David's comment. Please do file the complain with DOT. It's unbelievable that this happened to you and could be happening to others. Help your fellow travelers please!

I just booked an AA ticket where I had the option to connect in OGG or pay a few more money to take direct from HNL. Realizing of the bag charges on HA, I decided to pay a few more to AA and save on bags.

A couple I know went to Hawaii on their honeymoon back in October. They had RT tickets on UA. Flying into HNL, departing out of LIH thru HNL. LIH to HNL was on HA. No one told them, even after checking in at the HA counter in LIH that they had to retrieve their bags in HNL and recheck with UA.

In defense of HA staff, unless the HA flights are on a different carriers ticket, they don't know if that passenger's final is HNL or another off island destination. With that said, they should ask the passenger what their final destination is. Even before all of this happened, HA would collect the fee and check thru the bags. To me, even though it is HA's policy I wonder if the other carriers got involved. They are missing out on their fee's.

Not only was I charged for the interisland flight (UA-marketed and ticketed codeshare), I was also charged for my UA metal flight - and a supervisor wouldn't give on either charge even after I showed her my United confirmation which specifically noted for this particular itinerary that:

This is very interesting. I have a similar situation coming up and I wonder what will happen. How can HA purport to collect a baggage fee for another carrier that the other carrier does not claim is due and cannot charge? That would seem to be a pretty significant violation.

I'm flying OGG-HNL-PHX in a week on a single ticket, booked using UA miles. The first segment is HA and the second is US. I used miles for F, but only Y was available for the inter-island portion. I understand that I will need to pay the $17 fee for inter-island bags from OGG to HNL, but I'm in F from HNL to PHX. They can't purport to collect a fee for the US portion can they?

They can't purport to collect a fee for the US portion can they?

your guess is as good as ours.

I don't understand the previous posters comments about paying 2 separate bag fees on a single itinerary. I can understand them trying to charge you either the interisland bag fee once or the mainland bag fee once, but not both. I'm assuming that the previous poster and you will simply check your bags through to your final destination when you check in for the first flight.

Let us know what happens.

They keep the bag fees, so this is income for them. And vice versa, UA/US/DL/AA/AS/etc don't collect bag fees for Hawaiian either. They each keep whatever they can collect from their customers. The bags are transferred between airlines that have interline agreements, and they all have interline agreements with HA.

-David

Let us know what happens.

Here is the follow up. I was traveling on a cash ticket purchased on US.com. OGG-HNL on HA, then HNL-PHX on US. All in Y. One ticket. One PNR. HNL-PHX was upgraded to F using US miles far in advance. Three others travelling on a similar itinerary (different OGG to HNL flight, but also on HA) on an F award using UA miles, but with the HA segment in Y. Again one PNR, three tickets.

Three bags.

Gate agent, after brief discussion, agreed that interlining was ok on either reservation. She actually seemed relieved not to have to tell us to collect our bags in HNL. I asked how the new interline rules were working out, and she towed the company line and blamed online booking services that do not adhere to minimum connection times. That didn't make sense to me, since anyone booking a ticket having a connection wouldn't have to worry, only split tickets.

As for bag fees, she adhered to the HI to mainland rate of $25 per bag, not the $17 inter-island rate. It did not matter that we all were in F from HNL to PHX. For $24, I didn't want to make a stink with someone who seemed to have power to block my interline. I suppose if I had offered to collect and recheck in HNL, she would have been hard pressed to collect $25 instead of $17.

So, we paid $50 to upgrade one of us on the inter-island flight, which gave us 2 free bags, then paid $25 for the third bag. If we were going to pay $75 either way, we figured we should get one big seat on the short flight.

Here is the follow up.

Thanks.

It's pretty clear the HA is trying to capitalize by collecting the maximum bag fees that it can, and ignoring the rules.

If you are willing to file a DOT complaint that will help. The more complaints filed, the more likely they will look into it.

-David

Here's my story, very similar to lkar above me.

Just returned from my holiday vacation. Booked on a single ticket DEN-LAX-ITO on UA and KOA-HNL-DEN on the return, with KOA-HNL on HA and HNL-DEN on UA. All UA legs were upgraded to F far in advance.

Get to the check-in counter in KOA and the agent did spend a good 15 minutes trying to avoid charging me $25 per bag (interlined all the way through to DEN).

I even cited the language on HA's web site (http://www.hawaiianairlines.com/help/fees-id-1922) that says (at least in my interpretation, that I should not be charged--all the way at the bottom of that enormous page):

"For reservations connecting with other airlines, the baggage fees and rules of the first marketing carrier applies throughout the itinerary. For example, if you are traveling roundtrip from Honolulu, Hawaii to Austin, Texas, and connecting from Hawaiian Airlines to United Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines baggage fees and rules would apply both ways."

The agent was unable to figure out how to exempt me from the fees and I had a plane to catch, so I caved in and paid indicating it was under duress and I would dispute the charge. The agent happily handed me a slip of paper with where to file my DoT complaint, so clearly I'm not the first customer to engage with them on this topic.

My argument, in my letter to HA's CEO with a copy to the DoT was that they aren't even following their own policy. UA was the marketing carrier and first carrier on my itinerary. Ignoring my UA status or UA credit cards, being in UA First (which the HA agent could clearly see) should have exempted me from any bag charges (for the number of bags I was checking and number of seats in my reservation).

In the event HA does not refund my fees, I'll be disputing the charge on my credit card.

I'll return with a resolution once it has been reached.

Here's my story, very similar to lkar above me.

Just returned from my holiday vacation. Booked on a single ticket DEN-LAX-ITO on UA and KOA-HNL-DEN on the return, with KOA-HNL on HA and HNL-DEN on UA. All UA legs were upgraded to F far in advance.

Get to the check-in counter in KOA and the agent did spend a good 15 minutes trying to avoid charging me $25 per bag (interlined all the way through to DEN).

I even cited the language on HA's web site (http://www.hawaiianairlines.com/help/fees-id-1922) that says (at least in my interpretation, that I should not be charged--all the way at the bottom of that enormous page):

"For reservations connecting with other airlines, the baggage fees and rules of the first marketing carrier applies throughout the itinerary. For example, if you are traveling roundtrip from Honolulu, Hawaii to Austin, Texas, and connecting from Hawaiian Airlines to United Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines baggage fees and rules would apply both ways."

The agent was unable to figure out how to exempt me from the fees and I had a plane to catch, so I caved in and paid indicating it was under duress and I would dispute the charge. The agent happily handed me a slip of paper with where to file my DoT complaint, so clearly I'm not the first customer to engage with them on this topic.

My argument, in my letter to HA's CEO with a copy to the DoT was that they aren't even following their own policy. UA was the marketing carrier and first carrier on my itinerary. Ignoring my UA status or UA credit cards, being in UA First (which the HA agent could clearly see) should have exempted me from any bag charges (for the number of bags I was checking and number of seats in my reservation).

In the event HA does not refund my fees, I'll be disputing the charge on my credit card.

I'll return with a resolution once it has been reached.

Your first "marketing carrier" is Hawaiian Airlines - therefore Hawaiian Airlines rules apply - and even in your sample it says that.

You are confusing marketing carrier with who sold you the flight - the first marketing carrier is who flew you first regardless of who sold you the flight. That is the airline lingo.

Your first "marketing carrier" is Hawaiian Airlines - therefore Hawaiian Airlines rules apply - and even in your sample it says that.

the example is the reverse itinerary. (starting on the islands).

So if Hawaiian is the first marketing carrier on that example itinerary in both directions, then on an itinerary starting on the mainland, r/t, then returning from the islands, the mainland airline would be the first marketing carrier according to their own example.

-David

Your first "marketing carrier" is Hawaiian Airlines - therefore Hawaiian Airlines rules apply - and even in your sample it says that.

You are confusing marketing carrier with who sold you the flight - the first marketing carrier is who flew you first regardless of who sold you the flight. That is the airline lingo.

I don't think so. The first two legs were on UA. Hawaiian was third. It's exactly the reverse of HA's example.

I guess I'm confused, in your post you said you were in Kona traveling back to Denver.

Just returned from my holiday vacation. Booked on a single ticket DEN-LAX-ITO on UA and KOA-HNL-DEN on the return, with KOA-HNL on HA and HNL-DEN on UA. All UA legs were upgraded to F far in advance.

Get to the check-in counter in KOA and the agent did spend a good 15 minutes trying to avoid charging me $25 per bag (interlined all the way through to DEN).

I thought that you receipt was supposed to show what the baggage charges would be. My receipts always seem to. If that says $0 then isn't that supposed to be the committed charge. When you book one of these trips with UA but an inter island HA leg on return what does the receipt say for the HA leg?

I guess I'm confused, in your post you said you were in Kona traveling back to Denver.

Just returned from my holiday vacation. Booked on a single ticket DEN-LAX-ITO on UA and KOA-HNL-DEN on the return, with KOA-HNL on HA and HNL-DEN on UA. All UA legs were upgraded to F far in advance.

Get to the check-in counter in KOA and the agent did spend a good 15 minutes trying to avoid charging me $25 per bag (interlined all the way through to DEN).

I don't see the confusion. bmr12 bought a ticket DEN-ITO, KOA-DEN. The first marketing carrier is UA, since they marketed/sold DEN-ITO. Then bmr12 was having issues with HA when he checked in at KOA for the return. Not seeing the disconnect? :confused:

It's funny, because I would guess the example on HA's website is far less common. I would think more HI round trips originate in the 48 than in HI.

I wonder, though, is anyone really enforcing the first marketing carrier rules here as stated on the HA website? For example, suppose your ticket was OGG-HNL-ORD and return ORD-HNL-OGG. Interisland legs on HA and overseas legs on UA. Let's say you are a 1K and the UA legs are in F. Is the UA counter in ORD really going to tell a 1K in F to pony up baggage fees because the journey began on HA? Is that really happening?

Similarly, is HA collecting fees from its own elites or those flying in F on HA legs where their journies began in the US on carriers other than HA? Is this actually happening?

I don't see the confusion. bmr12 bought a ticket DEN-ITO, KOA-DEN. The first marketing carrier is UA, since they marketed/sold DEN-ITO. Then bmr12 was having issues with HA when he checked in at KOA for the return. Not seeing the disconnect? :confused:

See, that is the issue, the marketing carrier isn't who sold you the ticket - it is who flies you.

Baggage fees are determied by who flies you first - not who sold you the ticket.

The first marketing carrier is the first airline to fly you - not who sold you the ticket. That is consistent with DOT rules.

Airline A cant circumvent Airline B policies even if Airline A sold the ticket. Airline B policies prevail if that is the first carrier.

I'm not trying to argue - it is what it is.

See, that is the issue, the marketing carrier isn't who sold you the ticket - it is who flies you.

Baggage fees are determied by who flies you first - not who sold you the ticket.

The first marketing carrier is the first airline to fly you - not who sold you the ticket. That is consistent with DOT rules.

Airline A cant circumvent Airline B policies even if Airline A sold the ticket. Airline B policies prevail if that is the first carrier.

I'm not trying to argue - it is what it is.

And he flew UA first...

And he flew UA first...

And the return of the trip starts on Hawaiian - therefore, Hawaiian bag fees applies. They become the first marketing carrier on the return of the round trip.

And the return of the trip starts on Hawaiian - therefore, Hawaiian bag fees applies. They become the first marketing carrier on the return of the round trip.

There is no such thing as a "first marketing carrier on the return of a round trip." That's the whole point. This is where you're getting confused.

The first marketing carrier is the first carrier on an itinerary. A round trip ticket is a single itinerary, which means that the first marketing carrier is the carrier on the first segment of the outbound. The return is merely a continuation of the itinerary.

You are treating the situation as though it were two one-way trips/itineraries on separate PNRs and thus missing the point of the discussion.

And the return of the trip starts on Hawaiian - therefore, Hawaiian bag fees applies. They become the first marketing carrier on the return of the round trip.

People are referring to HA's own published example of how they compute bag fees they collect.

Not to what one persons idea of what the rule is or should be. (right or wrong, and you may very well be right, but I don't think any of it is that clear. That's why people are referring back to HA's own published example of how they collect/assess bag fees.)

Thanks,
-David

Ok, I had some bad info in my posts - I'll suck it up and admit it.

I talked to a friend of mine tonight who is fairly senior at Hawaiian. This is what he told me:

Yes, First Marketing Carrier is the first plane you board - and the baggage allowances apply for the entire itinerary. So I got that wrong.

What he did say and where it gets confusing:

The baggage allowances don't include frequent flier status, upgrades, or things like credit cards. So, you show up at Hawaiian to check in, you'll get charged as if you are a non-elite run of the mill flier if you check a bag.

That's rather bizarre. But it still doesn't answer why HA would ignore a committed receipt for the ticket that actually specifies a 0 baggage charge from the original carrier. This is the part I don't understand. I know that when I purchase a ticket from UA their receipt shows the baggage charge on the email I get back. If that shows 0 because UA has waived my fee for whatever reason, that would seem to be a committment to that being the charge (i.e., 0). I thought the DOT regs were specific in saying that baggage charges had to be disclosed to the purchaser and then not altered and that would seem to be what the UA receipt is - a disclosure. So if that receipt says I pay 0 because I am an elite or whatever, then how does HA legally claim to collect a charge?

Your first "marketing carrier" is Hawaiian Airlines - therefore Hawaiian Airlines rules apply - and even in your sample it says that.

You are confusing marketing carrier with who sold you the flight - the first marketing carrier is who flew you first regardless of who sold you the flight. That is the airline lingo.

I hate to sound stupid..and airline speak is probably different, but wouldn't a MARKETING carrier be the guy who sold you the ticket and whose flight number you are booked on? Thus the word MARKETING? The first OPERATING carrier would be the guy who actually OPERATES the flight??? If the two are conflated, then why the distinction? If I buy a code share with a UA flight number from UA are they not the MARKETER? If not, then you are saying that, in this case HA is the first MARKETING and OPERATING carrier. I don't get it.

Then of course there is the PLATING carrier?

The rule says (I think) "First marketing carrier in the itinerary". Isn't the itinerary the WHOLE thing not just the outbound and inbound taken as separate itineraries? I think Hawaiian is just interpreting the rule for their own self and not living up to the letter of the law.

Thanks for the ALOHA HA...I guess I fly Mokulele from now on..might as well.

I think Hawaiian is just interpreting the rule for their own self and not living up to the letter of the law.I think it is the all-to-predictable outcome of the government's further involvement in a supposedly-deregulated industry. Kate Hanni's FlyersRights.org pushed for legislation and these are the sort of unintended consequences we got stuck with. Personally, I would prefer if Ms. Hanni et. al. focused on publicizing service failures and let the market respond. jetBlue found out how that works after the "Valentine’s Day Massacre" in 2007.

Ok, to break this down, there seems to be a fair amount going on in this thread and the lines get a bit blurred. I'm bored at work, so, here's my summary.

1) If you show up with bags at an HA desk they will only send them as far as your ticket goes. In sum, the experience seems to be that they are enforcing their new policy of not interlining on split tickets. This is definitely a problem. If you're a split ticket, under 90 minutes is dicey at HNL. While HA seems to have been first out of the box on this, others have followed, and as annoying as HA's policy is, it's worse elsewhere. (For example, I have a ticket from USA to LHR, where I then change to a flight on a separate ticket to MAD. My first segment from the USA is on US, which now won't interline, so much worse than retreiving bags in HNL, I actually have to enter England to get my bags and recheck them.)

2) Scenario 1: You have a trip where you are starting your outbound or your return on HA. In this scenario, and backed up by my personal experience, HA is going to charge you a baggage fee no matter what unless you are exempt under HA's rules (ie., flying in F or status or a member of their club). The fact that you are connecting to a carrier who will not charge you a baggage fee doesn't matter. And, it sounds as though the fact that you are on an itinerary where your first segment was on another carrier for which you do not have to pay for bags (either by virtue of status or class of service) does not mater. For example, even if this is a return of a single ticket that began on a different carrier in the US, HA will make you pay for bags. Moreover, even if your only HA leg is inter-island, they will charge you the mainland rate of $25 per bag, not the inter-island rate of $17. Not a huge deal, but seemingly inappropriate.

3) Scenario 2: You fly your first segment on HA, but you start your return on a different carrier. For example, you fly OGG to HNL on HA and then onward to IAH on UA. For your return, you fly IAH to HNL on UA and HNL to OGG on HA. In this circumstance, you will pay for bags on your outbound. On your return, UA could, it seems collect a bag fee for HA, on the ground that it was the first carrier on the itinerary. However, we have seen zero reports of this actually happening. Instead, if you have status or are in F, you likely will not be required to pay a baggage fee.

Buried on page 38 of the DOT FAQ's.

In instances in which a passenger is eligible for reduced or waived baggage fees on one segment of a journey but is not eligible for the same reduced or waived baggage fees on a different segment of the same journey that is operated by another carrier, which carrier’s baggage fees apply? For example, a passenger may have premium frequent flyer status on one carrier and not pay any fees for baggage when traveling on that carrier but that frequent flyer status may not carry over to other carriers. Another example would be a passenger traveling in different classes of service on different segments of a journey who is eligible for reduced or waived baggage fees when traveling in a premium class on one segment of the journey but not on a non-premium segment, whether or not the entire journey is on one carrier.

Answer: It is up to the carriers to coordinate among themselves to determine whether, based on the passenger’s eligibility for reduced or waived baggage fees for one or more segments of an itinerary, the reduced or waived baggage fees apply to the entire itinerary. The carriers are jointly responsible for sharing information regarding the baggage allowances and fees that will apply to those itineraries and coordinating among themselves to ensure that passengers are provided accurate information about the baggage allowances and fees that will apply to their itinerary and ensuring that passengers are not charged additional or higher baggage fees than those that were disclosed at the time of sale. For example, a carrier could change its frequent flyer rules to make clear that the free baggage allowance only applies when all of the flights on a passenger’s itinerary are operated by that carrier with no code-share or interlining. Alternatively a carrier can make clear that the baggage fee waiver is provided only on certain segments as a courtesy.

Buried on page 38 of the DOT FAQ's.

It is up to the carriers to coordinate among themselves to determine whether, based on the passenger’s eligibility for reduced or waived baggage fees for one or more segments of an itinerary, the reduced or waived baggage fees apply to the entire itinerary.In other words, "We created a big confusing mess (hence the need for 38 pages of FAQs) and are going to leave airlines holding the bag to make sense out of it."

In other words, "We created a big confusing mess (hence the need for 38 pages of FAQs) and are going to leave airlines holding the bag to make sense out of it."

Oh, there were more pages, 38 wasn't enough :D

Ok, to break this down, there seems to be a fair amount going on in this thread and the lines get a bit blurred. I'm bored at work, so, here's my summary.
[deleted]
2) Scenario 1: You have a trip where you are starting your outbound or your return on HA. In this scenario, and backed up by my personal experience, HA is going to charge you a baggage fee no matter what unless you are exempt under HA's rules (ie., flying in F or status or a member of their club). The fact that you are connecting to a carrier who will not charge you a baggage fee doesn't matter. And, it sounds as though the fact that you are on an itinerary where your first segment was on another carrier for which you do not have to pay for bags (either by virtue of status or class of service) does not mater. For example, even if this is a return of a single ticket that began on a different carrier in the US, HA will make you pay for bags. Moreover, even if your only HA leg is inter-island, they will charge you the mainland rate of $25 per bag, not the inter-island rate of $17. Not a huge deal, but seemingly inappropriate.

I think your summary is exactly correct. The only problems are, as you point out, this is not the policy that HA actually documents or advertises on their web site. And of course the actual implementation of it just happens to be more favorable to HA's revenue stream.

No response from HA yet to my complaint.

I apologize if this scenerio has already been covered.

Does HA have an interline agreement with AS?

I am flying AS to HNL, the HA form HNL to ITO.

AS just changed their schedule leaving me only 70 minutes in HNL so recheck bags is not a pretty thought.

Thanks in advance for help.

Does HA have an interline agreement with AS?


yes.

-David

I, too, apologize if this scenario has been covered.

ITO (HA)-OGG (AS)-SMF (no status, lowly Y class)

Because I used miles from different AA accounts, all my flights are ticketed as separate tickets. Although HA has an interline agreement, am I understanding it correctly that HA will not check the bag all the way to SMF? Instead I will have to claim bag in OGG and recheck with AS thus HA charging $17 inter-island bag fee and AS charging $25 bag fee?

Thank you for any clarification.

Here's my story, very similar to lkar above me.

Just returned from my holiday vacation. Booked on a single ticket DEN-LAX-ITO on UA and KOA-HNL-DEN on the return, with KOA-HNL on HA and HNL-DEN on UA. All UA legs were upgraded to F far in advance.

{my own story edited}

My argument, in my letter to HA's CEO with a copy to the DoT was that they aren't even following their own policy. UA was the marketing carrier and first carrier on my itinerary. Ignoring my UA status or UA credit cards, being in UA First (which the HA agent could clearly see) should have exempted me from any bag charges (for the number of bags I was checking and number of seats in my reservation).

In the event HA does not refund my fees, I'll be disputing the charge on my credit card.

I'll return with a resolution once it has been reached.

I got a response this week to my letter with a positive outcome:

"Per your request, we have authorized our Refunds Department to credit your card .... $75 for the baggage fees you paid."

No other indication about why this happened in the letter. The credit has been posted to my account.

I would suggest others in the same situation do the same, including the DOT complaint. Anything to stop this insanity.

I, too, apologize if this scenario has been covered.

ITO (HA)-OGG (AS)-SMF (no status, lowly Y class)

Because I used miles from different AA accounts, all my flights are ticketed as separate tickets. Although HA has an interline agreement, am I understanding it correctly that HA will not check the bag all the way to SMF? Instead I will have to claim bag in OGG and recheck with AS thus HA charging $17 inter-island bag fee and AS charging $25 bag fee?

Thank you for any clarification.

This sounds accurate and is due directly to HA's consumer unfriendly interpretation of the DOT's rules :td:

Note: AS charges $20 a bag for the first 3 bags... (http://www.alaskaair.com/content/travel-info/policies/baggage-checked.aspx?#charges-allowances)

If I am flying on two seperate tickets for my return to the mainland (ex: OGG-HNL on HA, HNL-DFW on AA) and HA wants to charge me the $17 per bag fee for THEIR INTERISLAND FLIGHT, so be it. As long as I know that I have to pick them up in HNL, I will do what I have to do.

If they want to charge me the $25 per bag fee for my MAINLAND FLIGHT on a different carrier, so be it. With that said, that bag had better be checked ALL THE WAY THRU TO DFW ON AA.

Hmmm, this all sounds quite frustrating.

I am flying ITO-HNL-SFO tomorrow - up to HNL on HA, and then on to United to SFO.

All booked on one PNR, at United's website, on an itinerary that started with SFO-KOA on United last week. All tickets and emails show $0 baggage charges.

Will they sting me for the $25 tomorrow morning?
Are the check-in desks in ITO humans, or kiosks that won't print BPs until I've paid the baggage charges?

Let us know what happens. If you read some of the DoT stuff it would seem that a clear disclosure on the ticket purchase of $0 charge should be honored. However, HA seems to be making up their own rules and ignoring the government. If they do charge you, you should file a DoT complaint with your receipt as documentation. That is the only way some of this nonsense can be stopped.

Hmmm, this all sounds quite frustrating.

I am flying ITO-HNL-SFO tomorrow - up to HNL on HA, and then on to United to SFO.

All booked on one PNR, at United's website, on an itinerary that started with SFO-KOA on United last week. All tickets and emails show $0 baggage charges.

Will they sting me for the $25 tomorrow morning?
Are the check-in desks in ITO humans, or kiosks that won't print BPs until I've paid the baggage charges?

HA has both humans and kiosks @ ITO

Okay, update!

Yes, got stung for bag charges. $25 for each of our first bags, and $35 for my second bag, making $85 total.

Check-in lady said there was nothing she could do. She had typed on our full itinerary into her computer, and agreed that it was all on one ticket, with United as first (and third) carrier, and read my ticket email showing $0 bag charges for all segments.

But she said the complete program "which DoT gave us" shows we have to pay the extra charges, or we don't fly. Supervisor "Al" came over.. prodded the screen, shrugged, and left.

I told her that by charging us, she was breaking DoT rules, and indeed her own airline guidance (I showed her the HA web page).
But no budging.

Credit card handed over.

So... to get this refunded, who do I email/write to?!
And is there anything I can do to help regulars with this problem pursue a resolution?

So... to get this refunded, who do I email/write to?!
And is there anything I can do to help regulars with this problem pursue a resolution?

I wrote to the CEO of Hawaiian at their address listed on their web site, with a copy to the US DoT. Both were written on paper and mailed the "old fashioned way".

So... to get this refunded, who do I email/write to?!

With that sort of evidence, I would dispute the charge with my credit card company.

With that sort of evidence, I would dispute the charge with my credit card company.

Also file with DOT to show that HA isn't following its guidance. :td:

Okay, update!

Yes, got stung for bag charges. $25 for each of our first bags, and $35 for my second bag, making $85 total.

Check-in lady said there was nothing she could do. She had typed on our full itinerary into her computer, and agreed that it was all on one ticket, with United as first (and third) carrier, and read my ticket email showing $0 bag charges for all segments.

But she said the complete program "which DoT gave us" shows we have to pay the extra charges, or we don't fly. Supervisor "Al" came over.. prodded the screen, shrugged, and left.

I told her that by charging us, she was breaking DoT rules, and indeed her own airline guidance (I showed her the HA web page).
But no budging.

Credit card handed over.

So... to get this refunded, who do I email/write to?!
And is there anything I can do to help regulars with this problem pursue a resolution?

I think your beef might be with United. If you see a $0 charge for bags both directions, that is an error on United's fault. Per DOT FAQ's, Hawaiian doesn't have to recognize your *Gold status for free bags - and can charge as if you are a general member, if it says $0, it sounds like United made the mistake to tell you that.

I recently returned from a trip to Hawaii and had been following this thread before I left and I just wanted to update this thread with my experience. I had two separate reservations, one OGG-HNL on HA, followed by HNL-EWR-YYZ on United and AC a couple hours later.

I checked in online for the HA flight, but did not pay the baggage fee nor print my boarding pass. When I got to OGG, I went to the automated check-in terminals to print my boarding pass and pay for the 1 checked bag I had. At this point, I decided to try my luck and see if HA would interline my bag. I politely called over an HA agent and asked nicely if my bag could be tagged through to my remaining itinerary from HNL. After reading here about all the hassles everyone has gone through in similar circumstances, I was shocked at her answer: "Sure, just continue your check-in to pay for the baggage fee and show me the rest of your itinerary." So I paid the $17 interisland rate at the machine, she took the tag that was printed there and went over to her own computer and reprinted one for my entire trip home. After putting the bag through the agriculture scanner, she tagged my bag and that was the last I saw of it until I picked it up at YYZ. Couldn't have been simpler.

So either I got lucky, or everyone else here is unlucky, but it is still possible!

Lol.

So like pretty much everything I have ever read on FT, the problem would be solved by a simple strategic philosophy:

Consistency, transparency and honesty.

I recently returned from a trip to Hawaii and had been following this thread before I left and I just wanted to update this thread with my experience. I had two separate reservations, one OGG-HNL on HA, followed by HNL-EWR-YYZ on United and AC a couple hours later.

I checked in online for the HA flight, but did not pay the baggage fee nor print my boarding pass. When I got to OGG, I went to the automated check-in terminals to print my boarding pass and pay for the 1 checked bag I had. At this point, I decided to try my luck and see if HA would interline my bag. I politely called over an HA agent and asked nicely if my bag could be tagged through to my remaining itinerary from HNL. After reading here about all the hassles everyone has gone through in similar circumstances, I was shocked at her answer: "Sure, just continue your check-in to pay for the baggage fee and show me the rest of your itinerary." So I paid the $17 interisland rate at the machine, she took the tag that was printed there and went over to her own computer and reprinted one for my entire trip home. After putting the bag through the agriculture scanner, she tagged my bag and that was the last I saw of it until I picked it up at YYZ. Couldn't have been simpler.

So either I got lucky, or everyone else here is unlucky, but it is still possible!

You didn't get lucky. Hawaiian got paid for the bag you were checking, so, there's no reason not to check your bags through since they obviously have interline agreements with UA (not sure about AC). They definitely have a problem if this was in reverse, i. e. you check in with AC/UA first and then take an inter-island flight with them. If AC/UA interlines the bag to your final HA destination, they lose out on the additional revenue. In your case, that didn't happen, so I'm not surprised they were so "helpful".

You've missed the point, Phoenixtinct.
The alleged new policy is "Beginning June 1, 2012, Hawaiian will not through check bags to other airline flights unless the other airline segments are on the same itinerary for which the passenger is checking in"

..and cityexpressytz had "two separate reservations".

So, we're seeing inconsistency . (And in some cases, like my own, inappropriate bag-charge-charging).

Another update.

I just returned this evening from Hawaii. This morning I checked in for an HA flight ITO-OGG. I had another reservation (on a separate ticket) on AS OGG-SMF. As I was checking in, I politely asked the agent if they could check my bag all the way through to SMF. It was no problem. She explained that I should check in for the HA flight paying no fees for checked in bags ( you can do this prior to arriving at the airport). Then proceed to an agent behind the counter. Give the agent the rest of your itinerary confirmations, which the agent will enter into the computer with the HA flight you checked in for. You then pay the baggage fee for HA (mine was $17 as it was an inter-island flight) and issue boarding passes all the way through to your destination. The Aloha feeling was in Hilo this morning along with torrential rain!

Another update.

I just returned this evening from Hawaii. This morning I checked in for an HA flight ITO-OGG. I had another reservation (on a separate ticket) on AS OGG-SMF. As I was checking in, I politely asked the agent if they could check my bag all the way through to SMF. It was no problem. She explained that I should check in for the HA flight paying no fees for checked in bags ( you can do this prior to arriving at the airport). Then proceed to an agent behind the counter. Give the agent the rest of your itinerary confirmations, which the agent will enter into the computer with the HA flight you checked in for. You then pay the baggage fee for HA (mine was $17 as it was an inter-island flight) and issue boarding passes all the way through to your destination. The Aloha feeling was in Hilo this morning along with torrential rain!

Nicely done and thank for posting the update along with the advice.

-David

My Update...


$85 baggage charges at ITO, prior to ITO-HNL-SFO - up to HNL on HA, and then on to United to SFO.

All booked on one PNR, at United's website, on an itinerary that started with SFO-KOA on United the previous week. All tickets and emails show $0 baggage charges.

Sent complaint letter to Hawaiian - with cc to United, and DoT.

Replies today from each.

1. Hawaiian
"We understand you are requesting a refund for the baggage fees you paid.
Yes, we are required to adhere to the Department of Transportation's
baggage regulations. Regretfully, your elite status and benefits with Star
Alliance does not apply for travel on Hawaiian Airlines.

Therefore, you were charged the correct baggage fees for travel on Hawaiian
Airlines, and we are unable to grant your request for a refund. We
appreciate the opportunity to respond to you, and we look forward to
serving you in the future."

2. United
"Thank you for contacting United Airlines. I regret your travel
experience did not go more smoothly.

I have received your letter requesting a refund of the baggage fees that
you were charged by Hawaiian Airlines. Please understand that I am not
able to process a refund for money that United Airlines did not collect.
You would need to follow up with Hawaiian Airlines for them to process a
refund."

3. DoT
"Although we do not mediate individual consumer complaints, we have enetered your complaint in our computerized industry monitoring system, and it will be charged to the company in our monthly Air Travel Consumer Report..."

So : no refund.
Despite clear breaches of A) Hawaiian's own policy of "first marketing carrier" and B) DoT rule on disclosing bag charges at ticketing, and adhering to this. :confused:

Time for a credit card chargeback?

My reading of HA rules is that you should only have been charged interisland bag fees, not mainland. So I think you are due a partial refund. But I do not read it as zero bag fees. Agree it is confusing and they are not communicating between the airlines. What is aggravating is that HA is doing this, but seems like everyone else is not.

My plan is to avoid flying HA interisland if possible, and if it's not, I am booking separately with a big enough layover to re-check with mainland carrier.That way I do not even show HA my ongoing ticket. I would be pissed (as you) if they wanted to ding me for bag fees from HNL to the mainland when I was flying on a carrier with zero bag fees.

I would try HA again asking for partial refund. They should be able to understand that.

My Update...



Sent complaint letter to Hawaiian - with cc to United, and DoT.

Replies today from each.

1. Hawaiian
"We understand you are requesting a refund for the baggage fees you paid.
Yes, we are required to adhere to the Department of Transportation's
baggage regulations. Regretfully, your elite status and benefits with Star
Alliance does not apply for travel on Hawaiian Airlines.

Therefore, you were charged the correct baggage fees for travel on Hawaiian
Airlines, and we are unable to grant your request for a refund. We
appreciate the opportunity to respond to you, and we look forward to
serving you in the future."

2. United
"Thank you for contacting United Airlines. I regret your travel
experience did not go more smoothly.

I have received your letter requesting a refund of the baggage fees that
you were charged by Hawaiian Airlines. Please understand that I am not
able to process a refund for money that United Airlines did not collect.
You would need to follow up with Hawaiian Airlines for them to process a
refund."

3. DoT
"Although we do not mediate individual consumer complaints, we have enetered your complaint in our computerized industry monitoring system, and it will be charged to the company in our monthly Air Travel Consumer Report..."

So : no refund.
Despite clear breaches of A) Hawaiian's own policy of "first marketing carrier" and B) DoT rule on disclosing bag charges at ticketing, and adhering to this. :confused:

I have read this thread and am trying to finalize the answer to this question:
I am flying from OGG to HNL, FC on HA. About three hours later, I leave HNL for DFW on AA FC. Tickets were purchased separately on different dates. Will HA send my baggage all the way to DFW even though there should be no fees?

I never knew this was a possibility and just assumed I would have to recheck the bags at HNL for the AA flight. It certainly will make the trip easier if HA sends bags through. I appreciate any information regarding this issue, particularly recent events.

I have read this thread and am trying to finalize the answer to this question:
I am flying from OGG to HNL, FC on HA. About three hours later, I leave HNL for DFW on AA FC. Tickets were purchased separately on different dates. Will HA send my baggage all the way to DFW even though there should be no fees?

I never knew this was a possibility and just assumed I would have to recheck the bags at HNL for the AA flight. It certainly will make the trip easier if HA sends bags through. I appreciate any information regarding this issue, particularly recent events.

I think yes. They have an interline agreement.

Flying LIH-HNL tomorrow on HA, connecting to AS HNL-PDX. I just discovered that HA won't interline forward our bags to Alaska. We have a tight but legal connection, and collecting and rechecking our two smallish bags will put us at risk of missing our ongoing flight.

Not happy with HA right now. I only fly to Hawaii every couple of years, but I'll avoid HA in the future.

Flying LIH-HNL tomorrow on HA, connecting to AS HNL-PDX. I just discovered that HA won't interline forward our bags to Alaska. We have a tight but legal connection, and collecting and rechecking our two smallish bags will put us at risk of missing our ongoing flight.

Not happy with HA right now. I only fly to Hawaii every couple of years, but I'll avoid HA in the future.

It's nice that AS has expanded its reach in Hawaii. The nonstop LIH-PDX sure beats a connection in HNL (Unfortunate this route is only 4x/week and seasonal) Plus your first 3 bags are only $20 each.

Good luck tomorrow ^

Here is a follow-up. After two calls to Hawaiian, the second one speaking to a supervisor for over 50 minutes, and two calls to Alaska, I was unequivocally told that under no circumstances could I interline forward a bag from HA to AS while connecting in HNL. "No way, no how, that is just the way it is, sorry you don't like it." I instituted the laborious process to refund my $17x2 luggage fee because we were going to try to carry on. (These are Eagle Creek rolling bags that are overhead legal when not stuffed too full.)

I also posted to each airline's Facebook page. Alaska got back to me immediately, saying they had planned to institute that change (last year, when the DOT allowed it), and in fact they interline -- no problem. Hawaiian took 24 hrs to respond with another big F. U.

Of course, when we got to the airport in LIH, the story was different! No problem forwarding your bag (if you have less than a 4-hour connection in HNL). No problem! Don't know what those phone agents were thinking! So we checked the bags, and they turned up in PDX, just like the good old days.

Honestly, I don't know what to think about this stuff. But yes, next time is is AS for PDX-LIH. Never again on HA, now what to do with 300k+ HA miles?

I also posted to each airline's Facebook page. Alaska got back to me immediately, saying they had planned to institute that change (last year, when the DOT allowed it), and in fact they interline -- no problem. Hawaiian took 24 hrs to respond with another big F. U.

Of course, when we got to the airport in LIH, the story was different! No problem forwarding your bag (if you have less than a 4-hour connection in HNL). No problem! Don't know what those phone agents were thinking! So we checked the bags, and they turned up in PDX, just like the good old days.


Perhaps HA is loosening up? On paper they aren't supposed to interline unless its the same itinerary. But in the field perhaps HA agents realize how ridiculous it is to not interline when they did before. Hence phone agents are following policy and those with a physical interaction are softening up a bit to appease the pax. I'm glad that AS did reconsider its policy on interlining. (www.flyertalk.com/forum/alaska-airlines-mileage-plan/1413630-checked-baggage-changes-no-interlining-separate-tickets.html)

Any recent experiences?

We have a flight on HA from KOA to HNL, arriving at 9:57PM. Our flight back to BLI on AS departs at 11:30 PM. I don't think we have enough time to collect and recheck. Are we stuck using only carryons?

This stinks!!

Any recent experiences?

We have a flight on HA from KOA to HNL, arriving at 9:57PM. Our flight back to BLI on AS departs at 11:30 PM. I don't think we have enough time to collect and recheck. Are we stuck using only carryons?

This stinks!!

If you OLCI for the AS flight you might have enough time assuming your HA flight is on time. AS needs your bag (DL agents) by 10:50 PM (http://www.alaskaair.com/content/travel-info/at-the-airport/airport-boarding-times.aspx). This assumes HA gets your bag to you in a timely manner after landing in HNL. HA does use a different terminal a 5-10 minute walk away. Oh and you'll have to run your bags thru agriculture again in HNL with potentially another line to wait thru before rechecking (unless HA does interline all the way to BLI as sometimes happens it sounds like)

If you OLCI for the AS flight you might have enough time assuming your HA flight is on time. AS needs your bag (DL agents) by 10:50 PM (http://www.alaskaair.com/content/travel-info/at-the-airport/airport-boarding-times.aspx). This assumes HA gets your bag to you in a timely manner after landing in HNL. HA does use a different terminal a 5-10 minute walk away. Oh and you'll have to run your bags thru agriculture again in HNL with potentially another line to wait thru before rechecking (unless HA does interline all the way to BLI as sometimes happens it sounds like)

Good info Beck, especially about the agricultural scan. We are not going to chance it...carryons it is.

Was on two separate tix UA award / HA paid.

3/26
DEN-HNL (UA)
HNL-OGG (HA).

At Den 1K agent was able to interline bags, no fee. Bags arrived fine at OGG.

4/3
HNL-OGG (HA)
OGG-DEN (UA)

Used the "porter" for HA at curb. He said it would be no problem.
Took both HA and UA boarding passes I had, DL, and Credit Card. (I did OLCI for both, but did not pay fees on HA in advance). He came back 5 minutes later with 2 bag tags, checked through to DEN, and a receipt for bag fee.
I was only charged the $17 each not the overseas $25.

Bonus on both in and outbound!