Finnair Plus - "New" flybe routes?

Doing some random searches for flying later this year, I find that GOT is also to be served by flybe. For instance AY674 is becoming AY3866 op by Flybe.

I searched for news from AY, but i can only see the old flybe pressrelease which does not mention this destination to be affected. Before, it looked like only the smaller airports were to be converted to flybe, and that new scandinavian destinations (especially those not connecting to HEL) would go flybe.

I didn't think GOT was looked as an smaller AY destination, especially as BA put an codeshare on it.

So are all scandinavian destinations to be handed over to flybe during this year? Anyone with insight?

So are all scandinavian destinations to be handed over to flybe during this year? Anyone with insight?

Flybe Nordic does not have any bigger planes that E-170. So I'd say the flights between HEL and Scandinavian capitals are safe unless they get bigger birds. Finnair has also stated that they want to hand all of their European flights to some partner. But that won't happen during this year if ever, and IIRC it was also mentioned that the partner would not be Flybe.

HEL-GOT is only ocassionally serviced by E170 as of today. Usually E190 and A319.
AY674 is "always" A319, AY671 is A319/310/321 depending on load. Morning and late afternoon flights are usually packed, and good load in C-cabin too.
HEL-GOT has 3 daily in each direction I think. Not the small destination in my mind.

Handing over this route to flybe could mean transferring of plane leases to flybe. Or AY is anticipating lower loads in the future.

It looks like that flybe will be serving the ZRH - HEL route from start of November.

---Mail----
Dear Customer

Flight number for AY864 02.11.2012 Zurich Helsinki has been changed. The new flight number is AY2864 and the flight will be operated by Flybe Finland The flight departs from Zurich according to the original schedule at 19:05 The change requires no action by customers.

www.finnair.com/info
---MAil END ----

I find this curious since this route is most of the time served with 3XX Airbusses. I wonder how they are going to manage the route in practice and what will be the implications to customer service and prices.

It is the same for many swedish destinations. In the new schedule, most routes are now in AY2xxx series, even if they used to be A32x-flights.
Maybe they are planning for a decrease in demand with the new flybe operations and therefore don't need A32x capacity anymore...

On some flights it is more complicated. On GOT-HEL, they seems to have kept only one weekly flight under AY-flag. You can fly AY678 saturday evening to HEL. The rest of the week it is AY2678 and op by flybe.

Looks like most E jet wil go to Flybe Finland and routes to Manchester, Budapest etc will be under Flybe Finland brand and codeshare with Flye.

All Flight AY2XXX-3XXX will be oneworld flights that people can earn points and status and have oneworld benefits.

Other flights operated by Flybe will not be part of the deal.

Flybe Finland is to fly as an affiliate member of oneworld®, the leading quality global airline alliance, on routes it operates on behalf of alliance member Finnair.

The arrangement takes effect from Sunday (28 October), when Finnair is transferring its 12 Embraer 190 regional jets to Flybe Finland to operate on behalf of Finnair on select routes at select times, to destinations in Europe including Budapest, Manchester, Munich and Warsaw.

Flybe Finland already operates a number of domestic and Baltic routes on behalf of Finnair, including between its Helsinki hub and Joensuu, Ivalo, Kittilä, Kuopio, Kuusamo, Rovaniemi, Oulu, Tallinn, Tampere, Turku and Vaasa.

All these flights carry the regular Finnair AY flight code, with products and services to match those offered on regular Finnair flights. Pilots will be from Finnair and Flybe while flight attendants will be employed by Flybe only, and wear the Flybe uniform. Other than that, customers should not notice any difference from regular Finnair services.

The transfer of these operations has been made as part of Finnair's overall restructuring plans to return the group to profitability.

Finnair Vice-President Alliances Paavo Virkkunen said: "Extending oneworld affiliation to these contract flights operated by Flybe Finland on behalf of Finnair is in line with our strategy to ensure that customers flying on these routes enjoy a seamless Finnair brand experience. The good news is that they will continue to enjoy all oneworld services and benefits, including earning and redeeming frequent flyer rewards and earning tier status points."

The affiliation covers the full range of oneworld services and benefits - including, for members of any oneworld member airlines' frequent flyer programme, the ability to earn mileage rewards and tier status points, redeem mileage rewards on all Finnair flights operated by Flybe Finland, and, for top tier cardholders, lounge access when flying these routes. At the same time, its flights will be featured in all oneworld fares.

Only these "contract" flights operated by Flybe Finland with flight numbers in the AY2000 or AY3000 series will be covered by oneworld services and benefits. Flybe Finland's oneworld affiliation does not extend to flights it operates in its own right, even those also carrying Finnair code under the two airlines' code-sharing arrangements, nor does it extend to other parts of the Flybe group.

Flybe Finland is wholly owned by Flybe Nordic, a joint venture between Finnair and Flybe, Europe's leading regional airline. Finnair owns 40 per cent of Flybe Nordic, and Flybe 60 per cent.

Looks like most E jet wil go to Flybe Finland and routes to Manchester, Budapest etc will be under Flybe Finland brand and codeshare with Flye.

All Flight AY2XXX-3XXX will be oneworld flights that people can earn points and status and have oneworld benefits.

Other flights operated by Flybe will not be part of the deal.

How decent of them. (sarcasm)

Still don't understand what they will be doing on the A32x routes. Maybe by adding a "2" to the flight number (for example AY671, 673 ->2671, 2673) Finnair magically can fit the pax into a E190 and claiming it will go "virtually unnoticed" by customers.

Sadly, flybe seems to be flying with transponder data that is not tracked by flightradar24 so it will be difficult to tell what planes are flying where.

Only these "contract" flights operated by Flybe Finland with flight numbers in the AY2000 or AY3000 series will be covered by oneworld services and benefits. Flybe Finland's oneworld affiliation does not extend to flights it operates in its own right, even those also carrying Finnair code under the two airlines' code-sharing arrangements, nor does it extend to other parts of the Flybe group.

:td:

Still don't understand what they will be doing on the A32x routes. Maybe by adding a "2" to the flight number (for example AY671, 673 ->2671, 2673) Finnair magically can fit the pax into a E190 and claiming it will go "virtually unnoticed" by customers.

I have a booking for a BUD-HEL flight in November, fortunately it still shows as an AY A320. So I think this new arrangement either applies to select flights on E190 a/c, or there will be an associated schedule adjusment to compensate for the smaller planes.

I have a booking for a BUD-HEL flight in November, fortunately it still shows as an AY A320. So I think this new arrangement either applies to select flights on E190 a/c, or there will be an associated schedule adjusment to compensate for the smaller planes.

Yes, it will be showed as a "schedule adjustment" in your account, even though "only" flight number changed. If your flight number have changed to 2xxx or 3xxx, then it will be E190 even if it showed A320 at time of booking.

Some routes are now void of A319/320. For example, HEL-GOT lost all Airbus traffic. They are not altering anything else on these routes, they just stopped scheduling Airbuses. So they are in fact lowering capacity.

This will help flybe finland "prove" they run a more effective business, as load factors will be higher. Until demand falls, that is.

Overall efficiency for AY will fall, as they now cannot deploy the best fit for each flight. The Flybe routes will be E90 regardless of demand. The rest will be Airbus, regardless of demand.

I got the email today informing me that my flight from OSL to HEL has changed to flybe, with flightnumber AY2656. So I guess OSL is an E90 destination as well now. We used to get A320s and A321s, so this means a significant cut in capacity. :td:

Yes, it will be showed as a "schedule adjustment" in your account, even though "only" flight number changed. If your flight number have changed to 2xxx or 3xxx, then it will be E190 even if it showed A320 at time of booking.

It still shows A320, as it shows that aircraft type and AY7xx codes for most fligths on the HEL-BUD and v.v. route. Only a handful of flights (e.g. Sat mornings) have AY27xx codes and are to be operated by Flybe in the winter.

Some routes are now void of A319/320. For example, HEL-GOT lost all Airbus traffic. They are not altering anything else on these routes, they just stopped scheduling Airbuses. So they are in fact lowering capacity.

That was I wanted to reference by "schedule adjustment". If they remove all Airbuses from the BUD route, they have to (or at least should) increase frequency to account for the reduced capacity.

This will help flybe finland "prove" they run a more effective business, as load factors will be higher. Until demand falls, that is.

I'm not sure if this will be the case.

Overall efficiency for AY will fall, as they now cannot deploy the best fit for each flight. The Flybe routes will be E90 regardless of demand. The rest will be Airbus, regardless of demand.

As the BUD route shows, they can choose (at least a few weeks/months in advance) if a particular flights is to be operated by an A320 or an E190. Maybe it will be harder for them to do a last-minute change, but those were not relatively common under the former operation scheme either.

But at least I don't see "operated by Smartlynx" to BUD these days ^

Yes, it will be showed as a "schedule adjustment" in your account, even though "only" flight number changed. If your flight number have changed to 2xxx or 3xxx, then it will be E190 even if it showed A320 at time of booking.

Some routes are now void of A319/320. For example, HEL-GOT lost all Airbus traffic. They are not altering anything else on these routes, they just stopped scheduling Airbuses. So they are in fact lowering capacity.

This will help flybe finland "prove" they run a more effective business, as load factors will be higher. Until demand falls, that is.

Overall efficiency for AY will fall, as they now cannot deploy the best fit for each flight. The Flybe routes will be E90 regardless of demand. The rest will be Airbus, regardless of demand.

Those poor ones flying with SK must often tolerate CRJ:s. Much more cramped planes. I find HEL-ARN as well as HEL-OSL with flight times from 30 to 90 min very bearable inside E90:s. They fly faster and higher than A32X:s. They are God´s sent after experiencing the FlyBe ATR:s.

It still shows A320, as it shows that aircraft type and AY7xx codes for most fligths on the HEL-BUD and v.v. route. Only a handful of flights (e.g. Sat mornings) have AY27xx codes and are to be operated by Flybe in the winter.



That was I wanted to reference by "schedule adjustment". If they remove all Airbuses from the BUD route, they have to (or at least should) increase frequency to account for the reduced capacity.



I'm not sure if this will be the case.



As the BUD route shows, they can choose (at least a few weeks/months in advance) if a particular flights is to be operated by an A320 or an E190. Maybe it will be harder for them to do a last-minute change, but those were not relatively common under the former operation scheme either.

Yes, we are in agreement on how they will use the "schedule change" to announce removal of A320.


Yes, the BUD example shows they can mix AY and flybe on the same route. But other routes are not mixed. The HEL-GOT have all gone AY26xx. There is not a single Airbus left, even though they used to always schedule Airbuses for quite a few of the departures. There is no increase in frequency that I can see, and so it is a decrease in capacity.


Maybe this decrease in capacity is justified with lower demands. And then it is nothing strange that they removed all A320 from GOT. I wouldn't know.

And maybe they can swap A320s in/out on a weekly basis according to demand and bump passengers with "schedule adjustment" as a standard operating procedure. And then there will not be a sub-optmizement.
But normally, if you divide your resources into small sub-groups your overall utilization will suffer because each sub-group will optimize based on their own views of optimal usage.