Virgin Atlantic Flying Club - What next for Virgin Atlantic?

With the IAG/BMI deal now approved, one has to wonder whats coming up next for VS and how they will react to this. They are losing a codeshare partner and one that fed them traffic for their long haul network, but they are also now going to see more competition from BA on long haul and new routes.

I think for a semi independent airline, making profits for them now will become a little tougher. What you you all think is next for them? They may get some of the BMI slots, but is the VS we know going to continue as it is now or will we see some larger changes afoot?

Now that Star Alliance will not have a home airline in London anymore, I think they will be more then keen to try to re-establish a base there. My prediction would be that in the short term we may see an an offer from VS to status match all BD Diamond Club members and then in the medium term, a formal invitation to join *A.

Thoughts?

BA is Virgin's most important feeder so that won't change.

I think too much is made of VS/BMI ties. It's not like VS relies on feed from BMI's various war-torn countries.

I hope VS gets on with joining an alliance. Skyteam is desperate for long-haul routes from LHR but existing arrangements and routes probably suit Star better.

THe BBC report said about the deal that

It was also dependent on IAG committing to carry connecting passengers to feed the long-haul flights of competing airlines out of London Heathrow

So VS can take some comfort from that.


As to what VS will do -

+ continue moaning that somehow it has been badly done by (which is mostly self inflicted)

+ um and ah about how it wants its fleet to grow and develop

+ ditto re new routes / addtioanal frequencies to existing ones

+ not develop MAN as a 3rd hub. There is demand for a MAN-NYC service that could prove popular

+ continue with its existing practice of over promising and under delivering

+ um and ah about how it wants its fleet to grow and develop

+ ditto re new routes / addtioanal frequencies to existing ones

Well I think its pretty clear how ti wants to grow its flet. 787/330 orders are starting to roll in over the next couple fo yeats. Sure we will see some fleet replacement but I believe their is also scope for growth.

This year they are doing quite a bit

New JFK lounge
New J product
7 New A330 aircraft
747 leisure refit
New routes to
Cancun, Vancouver, Mumbai

New frequencies to
Accra, San Francisco

So that is a fair bit going on for an airline of their size.

As for alliances I think they will eventually go with Skyteam... I don't believe STAR want Virgin... if they did the bmi situaiton would be different and they would have joined a while ago.

As for alliances I think they will eventually go with Skyteam... I don't believe STAR want Virgin... if they did the bmi situaiton would be different and they would have joined a while ago.

I get that impression too. Apparently SQ wouldn't be too happy about them joining (but that's just galley talk)

Why would SQ not want them to join *A? Not heard this rumour before.

Why would SQ not want them to join *A? Not heard this rumour before.

Because they want nothing to do with VS and would sell if they could.

After Steve Rideway's less than stellar 'performance' on SKY news today he might find his passenger numbers dropping !

Not sure that them wanting to sell their stake in VS is a reason why they would not want them to join star. Having a solid star airline in London would outweigh any emotional baggage! They are already aligned with lots of star partners anyway.

I've always called sky team 'the alliance of losers'! Full of the airlines no one else wants!

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/virgin-boss-john-borghetti-has-
no-plans-to-join-star-alliance/story-e6frg95x-1226316885002 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/virgin-boss-john-borghetti-has-no-plans-to-join-star-alliance/story-e6frg95x-1226316885002)
Although Mr Borghetti did not rule out joining in the future, he suggested the Sky Team group anchored by alliance partner Delta Air Lines might be a better option.

"If you were to go down that path . . . it's wrong to assume Star is the obvious choice," Mr Borghetti said. "Delta is in Sky Team and Sky Team is a very formidable group, and I think Delta are terrific partners.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/virgin-boss-john-borghetti-has-
no-plans-to-join-star-alliance/story-e6frg95x-1226316885002 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/virgin-boss-john-borghetti-has-no-plans-to-join-star-alliance/story-e6frg95x-1226316885002)
Although Mr Borghetti did not rule out joining in the future, he suggested the Sky Team group anchored by alliance partner Delta Air Lines might be a better option.

"If you were to go down that path . . . it's wrong to assume Star is the obvious choice," Mr Borghetti said. "Delta is in Sky Team and Sky Team is a very formidable group, and I think Delta are terrific partners.

Makes sense. Skyteam desperately needs a partner in Oceania. If nothing else, it helps keep his options open down the road.

Why would SQ not want them to join *A? Not heard this rumour before.

Lets put it another way - If SQ really wanted them to join they have had 10 years to try and get them to join.

If ties with STAR were that strong they would have kept the United partnership when CO/UA merged but they have not.

There were mumblings that DL were interested in taking a stake before the market turned last year - so we may see VS and VA join Skyteam - I'd prefer DL as a partner is the states than US Airways!

Without BMI, what happens when I want to fly from MAN to NRT? I have previously gone with BMI from MAN to LHR, then VS to NRT all on one booking.

I realise I can book the BMI segments separately, but what happens if there is a delay meaning I miss the connecting flight? Previously I would have been booked on the next flight, but if I've booked it separately I don't think they would give a s**t.

Without BMI, what happens when I want to fly from MAN to NRT? I have previously gone with BMI from MAN to LHR, then VS to NRT all on one booking.

I realise I can book the BMI segments separately, but what happens if there is a delay meaning I miss the connecting flight? Previously I would have been booked on the next flight, but if I've booked it separately I don't think they would give a s**t.

I would guess they will just use BA as with other routes.

Without BMI, what happens when I want to fly from MAN to NRT? I have previously gone with BMI from MAN to LHR, then VS to NRT all on one booking.


I would guess they will just use BA as with other routes.

What about trying MAN to London Euston (EUS) on Virgin Train. Then transfer to the Underground/Heathrow Express to LHR and then VS to NRT? At least you earn miles (2 VS miles per 1 GBP in fare) MAN to EUS on Virgin Train.

Without BMI, what happens when I want to fly from MAN to NRT? I have previously gone with BMI from MAN to LHR, then VS to NRT all on one booking.

VS and BA already have an interlining agreement, you'll be able to do the same on BA / VS on one ticket.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/virgin-boss-john-borghetti-has-
no-plans-to-join-star-alliance/story-e6frg95x-1226316885002 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/virgin-boss-john-borghetti-has-no-plans-to-join-star-alliance/story-e6frg95x-1226316885002)
Although Mr Borghetti did not rule out joining in the future, he suggested the Sky Team group anchored by alliance partner Delta Air Lines might be a better option.

"If you were to go down that path . . . it's wrong to assume Star is the obvious choice," Mr Borghetti said. "Delta is in Sky Team and Sky Team is a very formidable group, and I think Delta are terrific partners.

Makes sense. Skyteam desperately needs a partner in Oceania. If nothing else, it helps keep his options open down the road.

Except this is the VS Forum and not the VA Forum. So just because the VA boss quoted in the interview doesn't think one group is not a good fit versus the other doesn't mean that the VS boss will agree or have the same view. :D

What about trying MAN to London Euston (EUS) on Virgin Train. Then transfer to the Underground/Heathrow Express to LHR and then VS to NRT? At least you earn miles (2 VS miles per 1 GBP in fare) MAN to EUS on Virgin Train.

I agree with that idea. However, we will learn in the summer if Virgin are still the train company in December.

Does anyone think that buying BMI Regional or BMI Baby would help in their bid to start domestic services and feed traffic into their flights at MAN/LGW & LHR?

I don't think they really need any feed at LGW/MAN.

What could make sense is if the buyer of BMI-R decided to become a Virgin franchise. Saves the Virgin Group investing much cash and gives the new owners (granite?) an established brand name.

What about trying MAN to London Euston (EUS) on Virgin Train. Then transfer to the Underground/Heathrow Express to LHR and then VS to NRT? At least you earn miles (2 VS miles per 1 GBP in fare) MAN to EUS on Virgin Train.

This is not a great solution right now for several reasons:




Getting between Euston and Heathrow is fairly convoluted, requiring an extra change of trains and a good deal of walking including going up and down stairs. Not ideal if you've got heavy bags.


It requires purchasing at least 2 (and possibly 3 or 4!) separate tickets. There's still little or no code-sharing or integrated ticketing between rail and air in the UK. Even getting both Tube and National Rail travel on a single ticket is not possible if you want to purchase that ticket at Heathrow!


Discount Virgin Trains fares require you to travel on a specific train service. You need to pick your inbound train time carefully to make sure you can make the connection. If there are any delays due to immigration or your inbound flight, you have to purchase a new, very expensive, ticket.


HS2 will solve some of the physical issues, but proper integrated ticketing between airlines and rail is needed much sooner.

I think VS (and all Virgin airlines worldwide) need to get serious about creating a new alliance - the feeds from all airlines working together could be quite fruitful for all involved. There is room for another global alliance than the big two and that dodgy skyteam.

I find it somewhat perplexing the Virgin group hasn't gotten its poo together on this. It seems ironic that globalisation is in Virgin's blood but global cooperation between group companies and their partners is so weak. Leverage people!

This is not a great solution right now for several reasons:




Getting between Euston and Heathrow is fairly convoluted, requiring an extra change of trains and a good deal of walking including going up and down stairs. Not ideal if you've got heavy bags.


It requires purchasing at least 2 (and possibly 3 or 4!) separate tickets. There's still little or no code-sharing or integrated ticketing between rail and air in the UK. Even getting both Tube and National Rail travel on a single ticket is not possible if you want to purchase that ticket at Heathrow!


Discount Virgin Trains fares require you to travel on a specific train service. You need to pick your inbound train time carefully to make sure you can make the connection. If there are any delays due to immigration or your inbound flight, you have to purchase a new, very expensive, ticket.


HS2 will solve some of the physical issues, but proper integrated ticketing between airlines and rail is needed much sooner.

Good points you are bringing up here. Here's to closer rail/air integration someday in the Virgin Group.

Good points you are bringing up here. Here's to closer rail/air integration someday in the Virgin Group.

We will learn over the summer if Virgin get to keep the trains franchise. They might not be running this time next year.

We will learn over the summer if Virgin get to keep the trains franchise. They might not be running this time next year.

Integrated ticketing is something that ought be specified/developed at a strategic level by the DfT or National Rail, regardless of who's running the various rail franchises.