New York City - Need help with NYC trip ("commuting" into Manhattan)

In June we will be stopping off in NYC for a few days on the way from London to NYC. We have three boys between the ages of 8 & 12. A few questions:
1. We want to use points to minimize the cost of accommodations. Right now we have reservations at the LaGuardia Sheraton (2 rooms on cash & points so 8000 points + $120 a night) and the Hyatt Place Garden City (one room so 8000 points a night but no cash and we get breakfast). Is the Sheraton that much better in terms of access to Manhattan on public transport? The Hyatt Place seems to be about 3/4 of a mile from the LIRR and 45 min to Penn Station. More expensive transport and a longer walk, but is it a deal-breaker? (I assume that Garden City will be a safe enough area to walk from the LIRR to the hotel--is that a valid assumption?)
2. Transport to the hotel. Should we rent a car, use a car service or take two taxis? We can leave some luggage at the terminal if we need to. Parking is free at the Hyatt Place but not at the Sheraton. I won't drive into the city but having a car might be nice for getting to restaurants, relatives, etc.
3. Since we only have two full days for sightseeing, are there must-sees for the boys? There are threads on things to see and do with kids which I will read but right now the Statue of Liberty and the Empire State Building are at the top of their lists. Am I over-reaching to think I can squeeze in two or three major sights in one day?

Depends on whether you want to save 240 or not. Both offer a bit of inconvience but free bfast and hotel may have shuttle to Lirr would save more money.

The trip is long and may be crowded but you are visiting NYC. Not much difference from taking tube from Lhr to downtown London.
Hyatt place isn't a big bfast.

I'd check if there's any availability using your Starwood points at Aloft Brooklyn. It'll be a much better experience than staying by LaGuardia. Note that the Aloft Brooklyn is a Category 3 property vs. the Sheraton LaGuardia as a Category 4.

You may also want to look into hotels in New Jersey on the waterfront.

I don't know how much they will be with points but here are a few options:

Sheraton Lincoln Harbor (Ferry to/from NYC)

Westin New Jersey Newport (PATH (Subway)/Ferry to NYC)

W Hotel Hoboken (PATH/Ferry to NYC)

The PATH would be 2.00 per person, each way. It is not directly connected to the NYC Subway system, but you can use the same "MetroCard" on both services.

The Ferry would be a varied price, but offers busses to various destinations in NYC for free. More info can be found at http://www.nywaterway.com/Commuters.aspx

Thanks, RooseveltL, blort and kwildnj.

The main advantage of a Hyatt Place is that their room set-up with a double double and the sofa can sleep five so we only need one room there. Most of the SPG properties will only sleep four in one room so we would need two rooms. For three nights it kind of adds up.

Aloft Brooklyn does look good but they didn't have cash and points for the days we needed (that's why we booked the Sheraton La Guardia). I will monitor availability or maybe email the hotel directly.

I think NJ is out because of the distance from JFK, the fact that they are all category 5 hotels (so more points or cash & points) and the cost of parking. If it were just me and my wife they would be good possibilities.

Unless you're doing a bunch of driving out to Long Island, Upstate, or into New Jersey, you do not need a car. Rentals in NYC are very expensive, parking is as well (even in Queens), and the subway/LIRR goes pretty much everywhere. Especially not to get to the hotel from the airport.

Unless you're doing a bunch of driving out to Long Island, Upstate, or into New Jersey, you do not need a car. Rentals in NYC are very expensive, parking is as well (even in Queens), and the subway/LIRR goes pretty much everywhere. Especially not to get to the hotel from the airport.

I would strongly 2nd this statement. Verify the Hyatt place has courtesy van/shuttle to/from LIRR station and you can take AirTran to LIRR from JFK airport very easily.

If landing/departing JFK you have to take the AirTran to get to rental car and if around rush hour - the train will be faster (less stress) vs. driving. Extensive luggage would be the only justification for renting a vehicle.
If landing LGA - take a cab to Woodside LIRR. Both options are less than rental car cost.

First off, no need to rent a car for a 2 day visit NYC.

You have such a short time here. I wouldn't stay on Long Island in Garden City. Too far away. Contact the LGA Sheraton to see about public transportation into Manhattan. Nothing on their website goes into that detail.

Since we only have two full days for sightseeing, are there must-sees for the boys?Ask your boys what they want to do while in the city. Have them do the research and then tell us what they say. Then we can figure out how to make as much of that possible on your trip.

i would still try and find a cheapish place in the city - 5 to a room is difficult to find but there are quite a few apartment style hotels that might fit the bill. Once in New York the cost for food, museums, transport can be very cheap. If yu are in NY for a short time you'd get much more "value" and a better experience out of staying in a better location.

You don't say whose points you're hoping to use for your accommodation, but you might check to see if you could stay in Long Island City, Queens. It's not far from LaGuardia, but it's a much more central location, with great subway access, and is only 1-3 subway stops out of Midtown Manhattan.

There are a number of decently priced hotels in the area - about three or four Choice Hotels properties (ranging from Comfort Inn to the Verve, which is one of their "boutique" properties and very nice), as well as a Holiday Inn, and possibly some others.

If you stay in LIC, you can walk out the door and be at the subway in about 1-2 minutes - no hotel shuttles required, no commuter trains. It's not the most exciting neighborhood in the city, but then again neither is LGA, and there's a lot of new development moving into the area, which includes restaurants, cafes, etc., in case you should need them.

Staying in LIC over LGA would probably save you a good 20 minutes or so in transportation time into Manhattan. For such a short stay, that could make a big difference.

All helpful info. but don't lose sight of the original OP requirements.

Save on cost + using points for the stay + 5 occupants!

Save on cost = no rental car and eliminates many closer hotel out of pocket as would need two rooms if consider traditional Marriott, etc.
Using points for free or reduced rate = SPG or Hyatt (sounds like OP checked other options via hotel website)
5 occupants = bigger is better so Hyatt Place sort of better vs. Sheraton unless you get an upgrade.

All helpful info. but don't lose sight of the original OP requirements.

Save on cost + using points for the stay + 5 occupants!

Save on cost = no rental car and eliminates many closer hotel out of pocket as would need two rooms if consider traditional Marriott, etc.
Using points for free or reduced rate = SPG or Hyatt (sounds like OP checked other options via hotel website)
5 occupants = bigger is better so Hyatt Place sort of better vs. Sheraton unless you get an upgrade.
That's the dilemma. We would love to be in the city but we don't have points for two rooms for three nights at a cat 5 or 6 hotel with SPG (or with Hyatt for that matter) and it seems worth it to commute into Manhattan to be able to stay in one place (and to save some points for other future vacations without the boys). We don't have points with anyone else. When we checked out paying for a hotel or apartment I couldn't get anything below $350 or $400 a night in the city. If anyone knows of anything that's around $150 a night for five people that is nice we would be interested.

When we were in London a few years ago we stayed with relatives towards Heathrow and went into town on the subway every day (45 minutes each way) and the boys loved the train ride more than the sightseeing. I know that we'll probably be spending two hours a day commuting but I think the cost savings (and the fun of the train ride) will make it worth it.

Point taken about the rental car. I will cancel what I have reserved. A car service will still run $100 each way from the airport to the hotel (we need a minivan for 5 people + luggage) but that's still half the price of the cheapest rental car I could find for three days that would fit us. I think we will definitely use it to get to the hotel (our flight from London gets in at 8 p.m. NY time which is 2 a.m. Central Europe time) but we might be able to take the LIRR back to JFK.

Analise, I like your idea about having the boys do the research for what they want to see. I will point them to the relevant threads in this forum and let them start there.

Point taken about the rental car. I will cancel what I have reserved. A car service will still run $100 each way from the airport to the hotel (we need a minivan for 5 people + luggage) but that's still half the price of the cheapest rental car I could find for three days that would fit us. I think we will definitely use it to get to the hotel (our flight from London gets in at 8 p.m. NY time which is 2 a.m. Central Europe time) but we might be able to take the LIRR back to JFK.If you choose to stay in Queens, you can take a NYC taxi (pick the minivan) and save yourself a lot of money. No need to spend $100.

Analise, I like your idea about having the boys do the research for what they want to see. I will point them to the relevant threads in this forum and let them start there.I bet they'll have fun with this!

Hi.... if it's the Sheraton-LaGuardia EAST (address 135-20 39th Av, Flushing, NY).....that hotel is about 2 blocks from the (7) Subway-Flushing-Main St station, and about 4 blocks from the LIRR-Flushing station. I'm sure the Manhattanites can advise on the relative benefits of subway vs LIRR.
(The LIRR-Flushing station is not on the same LIRR branch line as the JFK-Jamaica Station)

This hotel is in the center of a vibrant Asian district of restaurants and shops.

In June we will be stopping off in NYC for a few days on the way from London to NYC. We have three boys between the ages of 8 & 12.
....

3. Since we only have two full days for sightseeing, are there must-sees for the boys? There are threads on things to see and do with kids which I will read but right now the Statue of Liberty and the Empire State Building are at the top of their lists. Am I over-reaching to think I can squeeze in two or three major sights in one day?

Statue & Ellis Island can be seen in one morning, if you got the first boat in the morning (reserve by its webpage asap). I think ESB is similar in terms of the web reservation.

I always recommend Top of the Rock (Rockefeller Center top floor), even more than ESB cause from Top of the Rock you can take pictures of you with the ESB right behind you, and since it's taken from a high point, the pictures are great! However the Chrysler builiding is not well seen from TOTR, cause it's hidden by the MetLife building. For Chrysler shots, the ESB is the place.
You must also reserve it thru the TOTR web page.

There are several suggestions for kids also in this thread, though you've probably already checked it.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/new-york-city/1321352-father-son-weekend-trip-nyc-help.html

Hi.... if it's the Sheraton-LaGuardia EAST (address 135-20 39th Av, Flushing, NY).....that hotel is about 2 blocks from the (7) Subway-Flushing-Main St station, and about 4 blocks from the LIRR-Flushing station. I'm sure the Manhattanites can advise on the relative benefits of subway vs LIRR.It takes someone from Oklahoma to point this out. I love it. :) Since this is the only Sheraton near LGA, the OP will be MUCH better off there than out in the suburbs of Long Island in Garden City. A 2 block walk to the 7 (the subway) will bring you right into Grand Central (42nd and Lex), 5th Ave & 42nd, or Times Square depending on which stop they prefer. Very easy and very inexpensive. The LIRR from Flushing to Penn Station doesn't run often enough to Manhattan compared with the subway.

Also, take a minivan taxi from JFK.

...Aloft Brooklyn does look good...I will monitor availability or maybe email the hotel directly...IMO, forget about the Aloft. The rooms are very small and there are no drawers anywhere. Even were it only two of you, you would trip over each other since these hotels appear to me to have been designed for the single traveler who is staying one night, living out of the suitcase, and being early out the door.

Thanks again for all the previous help. I have just a little bit more to ask about.

I was able to reserve the Hyatt 48Lex on points (two rooms). I know the king studios are small but it allows us to be in the city which will save us a fair bit of commuting time on the two days we want to go sightseeing. "Value" is always relative but the rate on Hyatt's website is like $500 per night per room for the dates we want (which seems outrageous to me but therefore a good use of points). So unless people really feel the Sheraton La Guardia East (Flushing) is a great deal or the Hyatt is horrible, I think we'll switch. Any input?

Our boys have decided on the Statue of Liberty, The Sony Wonder Technology Lab, the Top of the Rock (in lieu of the ESB) and the Intrepid Air Sea Space Museum. My wife wants to do the Metropolitan Museum of Art. How kid friendly is that museum?

We also want to walk a bit in Central Park and around Times Square, maybe visit FAO Schwartz. No Broadway shows since we have the boys with us.

Is that doable in two days if we're taking it easy after arriving from Europe or should we try to squeeze in a bit more? On one of the two evenings we're meeting family for dinner.

Finally, if we want a minivan taxi as Analise suggested, is there anything we need to do to reserve or get one. Are they more expensive than a regular cab, and if so, how much more? For the trip back to JFK (it will be a Saturday morning and we need to arrive at JFK around 8:30-8:45) is there anything we need to do to order a minivan taxi for the return? When should we leave the hotel? Or should we just use a car service?

There are quite a few Broadway and Off Broadway shows that would be of interest to your children. Any of the Disney musicals, perhaps Peter and the Starcatcher (precursor to Peter Pan), and a few shows playing Off Broadway.

Don't write off this opportunity without looking a little bit closer.

There are quite a few Broadway and Off Broadway shows that would be of interest to your children....:rolleyes: Nowadays there are precious few that would not be.

There are quite a few Broadway and Off Broadway shows that would be of interest to your children. Any of the Disney musicals, perhaps Peter and the Starcatcher (precursor to Peter Pan), and a few shows playing Off Broadway.

Don't write off this opportunity without looking a little bit closer.

The days we'll be in NYC don't have matinees and since we're coming from Europe we're afraid that an 8:00 p.m. show will be too much for our jet-lagged kids to handle. Besides that, I have a serious case of sticker shock. Over $800 for the Lion King for the five of us if bought in advance via Ticketmaster.

:rolleyes: Nowadays there are precious few that would not be.

Go see "Venus in Fur" before it closes.

And don't take the kids!

Thanks again for all the previous help. I have just a little bit more to ask about.

I was able to reserve the Hyatt 48Lex on points (two rooms). I know the king studios are small but it allows us to be in the city which will save us a fair bit of commuting time on the two days we want to go sightseeing. "Value" is always relative but the rate on Hyatt's website is like $500 per night per room for the dates we want (which seems outrageous to me but therefore a good use of points). So unless people really feel the Sheraton La Guardia East (Flushing) is a great deal or the Hyatt is horrible, I think we'll switch. Any input?

Our boys have decided on the Statue of Liberty, The Sony Wonder Technology Lab, the Top of the Rock (in lieu of the ESB) and the Intrepid Air Sea Space Museum. My wife wants to do the Metropolitan Museum of Art. How kid friendly is that museum?

We also want to walk a bit in Central Park and around Times Square, maybe visit FAO Schwartz. No Broadway shows since we have the boys with us.

Is that doable in two days if we're taking it easy after arriving from Europe or should we try to squeeze in a bit more? On one of the two evenings we're meeting family for dinner.

Finally, if we want a minivan taxi as Analise suggested, is there anything we need to do to reserve or get one. Are they more expensive than a regular cab, and if so, how much more? For the trip back to JFK (it will be a Saturday morning and we need to arrive at JFK around 8:30-8:45) is there anything we need to do to order a minivan taxi for the return? When should we leave the hotel? Or should we just use a car service?

None of the museums are actually kid friendly. MOMA is the closest major museum next to your hotel but I think unlike the Met it has a set admission price. The Met is up on Central Park and it's nice to walk through and you can (if the boys are up to it) start off at the Sony Centre, FAO Schwartz, head through Central Park, drop in to the Central Park Zoo (the boys get to do this and they have to behave at the Met) and then head to the Met.

The Statue of Liberty and boat trip can have horrendous lines during the summer and that is the real only trip you have downtown, unless you also want to take in the 9/11 Memorial.

The Intrepid Sea and Space Museum is a must do with two kids and they will have the Space Shuttle around the time you visit.

Hi.... if it's the Sheraton-LaGuardia EAST (address 135-20 39th Av, Flushing, NY).....that hotel is about 2 blocks from the (7) Subway-Flushing-Main St station, and about 4 blocks from the LIRR-Flushing station. I'm sure the Manhattanites can advise on the relative benefits of subway vs LIRR.
(The LIRR-Flushing station is not on the same LIRR branch line as the JFK-Jamaica Station)

This hotel is in the center of a vibrant Asian district of restaurants and shops.

Yep. The Sheraton-LaGuardia East is at the last stop on the Queens-side of the 7 Train. The local train (makes more stops) takes about 35 minutes to get to Times Square (the last stop on the Manhattan-side) and the express takes about 25 minutes. I prefer the subway because it's cheaper and operates more frequently into the City. The downside is that the subway is more crowded and stops more frequently. The LIRR is a bit more comfortable, has fewer stops into the City, and a bit more expensive. But the downside to that is that you have to time it just right. Not all trains on that LIRR line stop at the Flushing-Main Street station. If you don't check the schedule, you could be waiting up to 30 minutes for a train to arrive. The hotel is convenient, but not as convenient if you decide to stay in the City.

If you decide on the Sheraton-LaGuardia East, you will never go hungry. I used to live around there (since moved to about 20 minutes away) and if I ever get the munchies at 2am, there's always something open. They do have a shuttle to LGA, but not to JFK.

Our boys have decided on the Statue of Liberty, The Sony Wonder Technology Lab, the Top of the Rock (in lieu of the ESB) and the Intrepid Air Sea Space Museum. My wife wants to do the Metropolitan Museum of Art. How kid friendly is that museum?

As a born and bred New Yorker, I have never used it. But since you mentioned some of the sites that are on the list, my friend has always touted about CityPass. You can find more information here as it may save you some money on admission fees: http://www.citypass.com/new-york

I think Toys R Us in Times Square is more fun than FAO Schwartz these days. Your boys might be a bit old for the indoor ferris wheel at TRU, though, so a visit to either one should be fun.

You can make art museums like the Met more kid friendly by buying some postcards in the gift shop and turning the visit into a scavenger hunt to find specific artworks. Or if you don't want to buy expensive postcards, print out some stuff from the website ahead of time and bring it with you. For 8-12yo boys at the Met, the Egyptian collection (including mummies and an entire Egyptian temple that was transplanted to the Met) and the Arms & Armor collection (suits of armor, swords, muskets, etc.) are likely to be more appealing.

As for Hyatt 48Lex vs. Sheraton Flushing, the Hyatt is a MUCH more convenient location for such a short stay. But if the Sheraton is significantly cheaper and your family really enjoys train rides (the 7 train is partially aboveground, partially below, and will pass by some interesting stuff during the aboveground portions), it's not a bad choice. Especially if you love Chinese food, as it's in the middle of one of NYC's three major Chinatowns.

Thanks again for all the previous help. I have just a little bit more to ask about.

I was able to reserve the Hyatt 48Lex on points (two rooms). I know the king studios are small but it allows us to be in the city which will save us a fair bit of commuting time on the two days we want to go sightseeing. "Value" is always relative but the rate on Hyatt's website is like $500 per night per room for the dates we want (which seems outrageous to me but therefore a good use of points). So unless people really feel the Sheraton La Guardia East (Flushing) is a great deal or the Hyatt is horrible, I think we'll switch. Any input?Make the switch. :)

My wife wants to do the Metropolitan Museum of Art. How kid friendly is that museum?Very. http://www.metmuseum.org/learn/for-kids

Finally, if we want a minivan taxi as Analise suggested, is there anything we need to do to reserve or get one. Are they more expensive than a regular cab, and if so, how much more? For the trip back to JFK (it will be a Saturday morning and we need to arrive at JFK around 8:30-8:45) is there anything we need to do to order a minivan taxi for the return? When should we leave the hotel? Or should we just use a car service?You can't order a taxi by make. You'll get on line at the airport and when you get to the dispatcher, tell him/her that you want a minivan taxi. Then the next one that pulls up will be yours.

On the way back, you'll have to hail a taxi if you want to taxi back to JFK. You can't call for one. Can't promise you'll have a minivan but who knows. If you stay at the Hyatt, you can always order car service. http://www.dial7.com/transportation_rates_NY Be in a car by 7:30am.

THANKS to all for your help. With everything everyone has shared and especially the last four posts it seems like we have a plan and some very good ideas from you all re. transport, sightseeing, hotels, etc. If you ever need suggestions for sightseeing on the Croatian coast, I'll be more than happy to return the favor.

Again, a big thank you to all for your help with this trip. We really enjoyed ourselves. A few highlights/comments.

The weather was not fun. Really hot on Wednesday and Thursday (and I HATE hot) and the rain on Friday caught us at the Statue of Liberty, forcing us into the gift shop and the restaurant for almost an hour. I guess that's life. It was nice that everywhere had a/c. But the bottom line is that New York in the summer isn't fun but it's better than no New York. And even though it was hot, it was great to walk along the avenues and look up.

The Hyatt 48Lex was a good base. Probably much better than being in Brooklyn or near La Guardia. Staff were friendly and it was nice to have the lounge for a quick continental breakfast each morning. Not sure the rooms are worth $500 a night (each) but on points they're a great deal.

We (including the kids) loved Ellis Island. Probably the highlight of the trip for me (not sure why, except that three of my four grandparents came thru there around the turn of the last century, and I was in Auschwitz a month or two ago which had similarities but VERY different outcomes). Somehow extremely emotional. Highly recommended.

The other highlight was the Metropolitan Museum of Art. What an amazing collection! And the building is unbelievably big. I bet we probably only saw half of it. The highlights for us were the 19th Century European painters.

Top of the Rock was a good alternative to the Empire State Building. Lines weren't too bad and views were awesome. The elevator up was really cool with the blue lights (like a spaceship). Intrepid was OK (I think it will be better when they get the Space Shuttle) but the kids definitely liked the hangar deck.

Taxis are hard to come by during tough weather (heat, rain, etc.) I had no idea how hard it would be to hail/find one. But the prices aren't too bad (maybe that's why they're hard to come by).

Carmel car service was great for the trip to JFK. The driver was early and we got to the airport in about 30-35 minutes. I realize that doesn't happen every day but (for us) another half hour's sleep would have been nice.

We (including the kids) loved Ellis Island. Probably the highlight of the trip for me (not sure why, except that three of my four grandparents came thru there around the turn of the last century, and I was in Auschwitz a month or two ago which had similarities but VERY different outcomes). Somehow extremely emotional. Highly recommended.



You compare Ellis Island to Auschwitz. Words fail me at the moment.

You compare Ellis Island to Auschwitz. Words fail me at the moment.

I think the point was that arrival at Auschwitz was set up to mimic arrival at a place like Ellis Island. If you've been to both places and done the tours, you know that people arriving at Auschwitz were told that they were being processed as immigrants and would soon be starting a new life. They left their luggage and got in line and....

Auschwitz was horrible and that Ellis Island was not (though for those who spoke no English it was probably intimidating and perhaps a bit frightening). My impression was simply that the very beginning of the experience for the new arrivees seemed a bit similar.

I think the point was that arrival at Auschwitz was set up to mimic arrival at a place like Ellis Island. If you've been to both places and done the tours, you know that people arriving at Auschwitz were told that they were being processed as immigrants and would soon be starting a new life. They left their luggage and got in line and....

Auschwitz was horrible and that Ellis Island was not (though for those who spoke no English it was probably intimidating and perhaps a bit frightening). My impression was simply that the very beginning of the experience for the new arrivees seemed a bit similar.

Amazing how no guidebook or history book has come up with this bit of repulsive analysis until now!

Hmm. What's worse, something offensive or an offensive explanation of the previous statement?

:td::td::td::td:

I think the point was that arrival at Auschwitz was set up to mimic arrival at a place like Ellis Island. If you've been to both places and done the tours, you know that people arriving at Auschwitz were told that they were being processed as immigrants and would soon be starting a new life. They left their luggage and got in line and....Comparing the tourism experience is in really poor taste. Starting a new life at Auschwitz? Think about that....

Auschwitz was horrible and that Ellis Island was not (though for those who spoke no English it was probably intimidating and perhaps a bit frightening). My impression was simply that the very beginning of the experience for the new arrivees seemed a bit similar.You're comparing an immigration language barrier at Ellis Island with the forced imprisonment of millions over an entire continent who were subject to torture, starvation, and then mass murder in ovens? Rethink that one too.

I don't see the offense in what eefor jfp said. I've been to both Auschwitz and Ellis Island (and had family members who were "processed" at both) and there most certainly are aesthetic similarities and they evoke some (certainly not all, or even most) of the same emotions.

Both are military-like institutions that people transited at the end of a difficult journey where they were leaving the life they knew behind for an uncertain future. Obviously those futures were near polar opposites and the symbolism of the two places today couldn't be more different. But I get eefor jfp's point, and I don't think he meant any offense.

I don't see the offense in what eefor jfp said. I've been to both Auschwitz and Ellis Island (and had family members who were "processed" at both) and there most certainly are aesthetic similarities and they evoke some (certainly not all, or even most) of the same emotions.

Both are military-like institutions that people transited at the end of a difficult journey where they were leaving the life they knew behind for an uncertain future. Obviously those futures were near polar opposites and the symbolism of the two places today couldn't be more different. But I get eefor jfp's point, and I don't think he meant any offense.

+1

Also see: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni-pr/1360960-why-do-americans-think-theyve-right-not-offended.html

I don't see the offense in what eefor jfp said. I've been to both Auschwitz and Ellis Island (and had family members who were "processed" at both) and there most certainly are aesthetic similarities and they evoke some (certainly not all, or even most) of the same emotions.

Both are military-like institutions that people transited at the end of a difficult journey where they were leaving the life they knew behind for an uncertain future. Obviously those futures were near polar opposites and the symbolism of the two places today couldn't be more different. But I get eefor jfp's point, and I don't think he meant any offense.You think your relatives and mine came to Auschwitz to start a new life as eefor jfp wrote? I can't do a thing if such a comment doesn't sicken you and others on this thread. Wow....

This thread needs to be closed (or moved) as it is now veered into OMNI/PR territory. I'll reach out to dstan.

You think your relatives and mine came to Auschwitz to start a new life as eefor jfp wrote? I can't do a thing if such a comment doesn't sicken you and others on this thread. Wow....

This thread needs to be closed (or moved) as it is now veered into OMNI/PR territory. I'll reach out to dstan.

First, let's be clear - that is not actually what the OP wrote:

I think the point was that arrival at Auschwitz was set up to mimic arrival at a place like Ellis Island. If you've been to both places and done the tours, you know that people arriving at Auschwitz were told that they were being processed as immigrants and would soon be starting a new life. They left their luggage and got in line and....

Auschwitz was horrible and that Ellis Island was not (though for those who spoke no English it was probably intimidating and perhaps a bit frightening). My impression was simply that the very beginning of the experience for the new arrivees seemed a bit similar.

Second, I agree that this thread is veering into OMNI/PR territory and that a step back is now in order. Let's all please keep in mind the following statement in the FT Rules:

Respect our Diversity - link to this guideline (http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#q67)
FlyerTalk members come from all walks of life and all parts of the world. We are as diverse in our makeup as we are alike in our passion for frequent flyer programs. Because we all bring a unique perspective to the forum, our collective experience is broadened, and we gain new insights.

Our diversity demands that we respect each other. Due to the inherent constraints of the Internet, humor, sarcasm, language and slang can be easily misinterpreted - especially when crossing cultural boundaries.

When posting a message, pay extra care to how it might be interpreted. And when you come across a post that offends you, read it with an eye toward giving the poster the benefit of the doubt.

If you have an issue with a post, please contact the member privately or contact a moderator. Do not make a situation worse by publicly responding.

I am sure that the OP meant no offense by the comment and was simply trying to share what he/she felt was a poignant moment. By the same token, we certainly all need to realize that any reference to the Holocaust, anti-Semitism, etc. needs to be treated with extreme care and consideration. That is true everywhere on FlyerTalk, and also especially here in the NYC Forum.

I would ask that all parties take a step back, try to view things from others' perspectives, and show some mutual respect via tolerance. Indeed, that is exactly the difference in symbolism between Ellis Island and Auschwitz.

Thank you for your understanding and consideration.

/Moderator

Thank you dstan. ^

I don't see the offense in what eefor jfp said. I've been to both Auschwitz and Ellis Island (and had family members who were "processed" at both) and there most certainly are aesthetic similarities and they evoke some (certainly not all, or even most) of the same emotions.

Both are military-like institutions that people transited at the end of a difficult journey where they were leaving the life they knew behind for an uncertain future. Obviously those futures were near polar opposites and the symbolism of the two places today couldn't be more different. But I get eefor jfp's point, and I don't think he meant any offense.
Your summary, themicah, captures what I was (obviously lamely) trying to express.

I really do apologize to those who took offense at how I shared my thoughts and feelings about Ellis Island. I really didn't mean to hurt anyone. Like some of you, I also had relatives who were killed in Auschwitz, so I certainly do understand the horror of the place. I was there two months ago, so the experience of the tragedy was fresh in my mind.

Thank you, too, to magiciansampras and dstan for their patience in rereading my posts and trying to help explain/understand what I was saying (I don't know how to do multiple quotes). I must admit I felt very misunderstood, and that hurt a bit. But obviously my musings were poorly phrased since at least Analise and LandingGear were very upset. So again, I apologize. If dstan thinks this thread should be closed to prevent further hurt, that is fine with me.

OP - Other people (including myself) understood your statement to relate the emotional feeling one can feel at either location/entrance because it isn't too distant or not many degrees of separation to their personal family experience.
I think everyone must acknowledge human beings react differently to the same settings and as long as one isn't directly attacking or celebrating human suffering - we should sit back and understand different perspectives of different folks.
I'm certain WTC site in the future will have a different reaction for someone who was there/or directly impacted vs. someone viewing it from TV.

I think going forward (not in this thread) - it is a better to share personal experience or emotion to understand not everyone will have the same take-away but not attack those who differ as it is possible to learn something or make it a learning opportunity for both parties.

The challenge is if you read most threads in NYC forum - everyone has a different opinion on the same topic (i.e. subway, delays, airports, highway, etc.). I don't think the OP could imagine such a reaction from his statement and I'm sorry you experienced it.

Your summary, themicah, captures what I was (obviously lamely) trying to express.

I really do apologize to those who took offense at how I shared my thoughts and feelings about Ellis Island. I really didn't mean to hurt anyone. Like some of you, I also had relatives who were killed in Auschwitz, so I certainly do understand the horror of the place. I was there two months ago, so the experience of the tragedy was fresh in my mind.

Thank you, too, to magiciansampras and dstan for their patience in rereading my posts and trying to help explain/understand what I was saying (I don't know how to do multiple quotes). I must admit I felt very misunderstood, and that hurt a bit. But obviously my musings were poorly phrased since at least Analise and LandingGear were very upset. So again, I apologize. If dstan thinks this thread should be closed to prevent further hurt, that is fine with me.

You have nearly 1,000 posts and have been a member of FT for ten years. Regardless of knowing how to do multiple quotes, you should know how to edit a post, or if not then to ask. If you make a mistake, and we all do, you go back and edit out the words. (That's why you see posts that say "deleted." Someone thought better of himself.) If others have quoted your now-deleted words, you PM a moderator and ask that the quoted text be deleted and most importantly, you own up to it.


Obviously this is a touchy subject. See the CNN report Obama's words at medal ceremony cause trouble with Poland (http://articles.cnn.com/2012-05-30/politics/politics_obama-death-camps_1_death-camp-auschwitz-nazi-death?_s=PM:POLITICS) from one month ago.

OP, I toured Alcatraz a few years ago. I even have a picture of myself in a cell. Do you think being a tourist has the slightest relationship to having experienced life as a prisoner?

Part of the forum dynamic here is that some people seem to operate based on the old French saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." So if X disagrees with Y and Z does not like Y, Z will support X regardless of how Z feels on the subject.

As quoted above, there are people here from a variety of different backgrounds. I am one of the native New Yorkers. Some years ago, it was even a part of the elementary school curriculum that the history of the city was taught going back to Peter Minuit and even earlier. So I learned about Ellis Island at an early age. Then of course, I read about it in books, articles and even the authoritative Encyclopedia of New York City (http://www.amazon.com/The-Encyclopedia-New-York-City/dp/0300055366). And in many visits to the Museum of The City of New York (www.mcny.org/) I know I saw things about Ellis Island.

The thing is, OP, you're the first person in all these years to liken Ellis Island to Auschwitz.

On the other hand, around two years ago, my aunt, the oldest member of our family, told me one day how she had visited the Ellis Island Immigration Museum (http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/ellis_island_visiting.asp). Like you, OP, she too had been to Auschwitz. Only she hadn't gone there as a tourist.

Her description of visiting Ellis Island made no mention of the concentration camp which tells me that for someone who actually survived it, there is no comparison.

OP, you say you were hurt by criticism of what you wrote. You need to own your words, or perhaps disown them.

LandingGear respect your perspective but I sense there is no compassion for a different opinion or view. The OP didn't know he personally offended others with his comparison and basically made a parallel in his mind of two entirely different destinations with drastically different take-aways. I cant believe the thinking of your grandmother experience came to mind or anyone reading this thread not sincerely apologize to her for the savage part of our humanity.

Ole miss entrance doesn't even make sense in this context as something more tangible would be comparing WTC vs. a similar twin tower skyscraper without knowing it causes a problem due to their experience.
My office in midtown I kept a large frame of lower manhattan skyline with WTC towers for historical and not forget it. A new employee was not thrilled by the reminder due to his own experience/memory. I took down the poster frame so I wouldn't cause post traumatic stress but as a long time employee worker at World Fianance Center and personal knowledge of someone who perished in the terrorist attack I was debating because I also had my right to hold/keep my memory as I wished in my own space. My point is different people interpret things from their own eyes/mind and as a city which is commonly judged/alienated we may not agree with an opinion but can't jump to it is wrong or personally offensive as it is an innocent opinion.

You have nearly 1,000 posts and have been a member of FT for ten years. Regardless of knowing how to do multiple quotes, you should know how to edit a post, or if not then to ask. If you make a mistake, and we all do, you go back and edit out the words. (That's why you see posts that say "deleted." Someone thought better of himself.) If others have quoted your now-deleted words, you PM a moderator and ask that the quoted text be deleted and most importantly, you own up to it.


Obviously this is a touchy subject. See the CNN report Obama's words at medal ceremony cause trouble with Poland (http://articles.cnn.com/2012-05-30/politics/politics_obama-death-camps_1_death-camp-auschwitz-nazi-death?_s=PM:POLITICS) from one month ago.

OP, I toured Alcatraz a few years ago. I even have a picture of myself in a cell. Do you think being a tourist has the slightest relationship to having experienced life as a prisoner?

Part of the forum dynamic here is that some people seem to operate based on the old French saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." So if X disagrees with Y and Z does not like Y, Z will support X regardless of how Z feels on the subject.

As quoted above, there are people here from a variety of different backgrounds. I am one of the native New Yorkers. Some years ago, it was even a part of the elementary school curriculum that the history of the city was taught going back to Peter Minuit and even earlier. So I learned about Ellis Island at an early age. Then of course, I read about it in books, articles and even the authoritative Encyclopedia of New York City (http://www.amazon.com/The-Encyclopedia-New-York-City/dp/0300055366). And in many visits to the Museum of The City of New York (www.mcny.org/) I know I saw things about Ellis Island.

The thing is, OP, you're the first person in all these years to liken Ellis Island to Auschwitz.

On the other hand, around two years ago, my aunt, the oldest member of our family, told me one day how she had visited the Ellis Island Immigration Museum (http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/ellis_island_visiting.asp). Like you, OP, she too had been to Auschwitz. Only she hadn't gone there as a tourist.

Her description of visiting Ellis Island made no mention of the concentration camp which tells me that for someone who actually survived it, there is no comparison.

OP, you say you were hurt by criticism of what you wrote. You need to own your words, or perhaps disown them.Well said! ^ Since this thread wasn't closed, I'm impressed how you handled it. I wasn't as patient as you are.

+1