Flying Blue (Air France, KLM, and Other Partners) - Flying Blue Miles Upgrade On Korean Air




KQ321
Mar 27, 12, 12:17 pm
I recently booked an upgrade to Prestige Class on KE using Flying Blue miles, and as it was a rather complicated process (even one FB staff member I spoke to admitted “we don’t often do upgrades on Korean”) I thought it might be useful to post an overview here of how the process worked (as I didn't want to bump an old thread (http://http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/skyteam/892072-skyteam-mileage-upgrade-program.html)).

The flight was originally booked in Y-class (YRTKE fare basis); once upgraded, it was re-booked as Z-class (I think this is the ‘new’ upgrade class for KE, following the change to their fare-classes on 1st March (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/korean-air-skypass/1303551-fare-class-z-changed-i.html)). The fare basis was then shown as "YRTKE/FBUPG" (FBUPG = “Flying Blue Upgrade”, presumably).

I initially booked the ticket in economy class on www.koreanair.com, using the “normal fare” option (rather than “lowest fare”) in order to get a Y-class fare*. The itinerary was solely on KE, and the ticket was of course initially issued with a KE ticket number (180). I then called Flying Blue, who checked my upgrade request was basically possible, and then passed me on to the Flying Blue “Ticket Plus” department. I think all my subsequent contact was with FB Ticket Plus, but unfortunately they don’t have (or don’t make available) a direct phone number, so I always had to call the normal FB helpline, and ask to be transferred.

FB Ticket Plus double-checked my request was possible, and said they would then contact Korean Air to confirm availability and actually process it. I then eventually received an email from KLM, with the upgraded reservation, issued with a KL ticket number (074). (Then, when I later made changes to the non-upgraded part of the itinerary, the ticket was re-issued with a KE number again...)

Or at least, the outline above is how I think it is supposed to work. In reality, there were several days of phone-calls back and forth between myself, FB Ticket Plus, and KE, in order to get the upgrade processed...

In particular, KE seem to have a unique PNR system (using a 7-digit number, rather than a 6-character alphanumeric reference, which most other airlines seem to use). Unfortunately, this means that KE staff can’t easily look up an AF/KL/Amadeus PNR, and FB can’t easily look up a KE PNR. It also appears that when a KE reservation is first created, an Amadeus PNR is also created for it. However, after that it seems that the 2 PNRs develop independent lives, and an update to one does not automatically update the other (see discussion here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/korean-air-skypass/1313491-seat-assignments.html)). (So, for example, my Amadeus PNR still shows the original dates for the non-upgraded part of my itinerary – even those dates have definitely been changed in the KE PNR – and indeed, I’m on one of the revised flights as I write this!)** Even on KE’s systems, there seemed to be difference between the “reservation” which showed one thing, and the “e-ticket” which showed another.

At one point, an FB agent was able to look up the KE PNR, and from that extract the Amadeus PNR reference. Fortunately, I thought to ask for this Amadeus reference, and after that I always had to give the Amadeus reference to FB staff, as they couldn’t find the reservation from the KE reference alone. Similarly, KE staff could only work from the KE reference, not the Amadeus one.

I was then told that the upgrade couldn’t be processed until the Amadeus PNR had been updated to match the KE PNR. This did not seem unreasonable (as otherwise FB would be updating an incorrect reservation). However, I think in the end the upgrade went through even though the KE and Amadeus PNRs were inconsistent (as they still don’t match up!)

All-in-all it was a fairly confusing process, but in short, I think the lessons are:

If you want to upgrade a KE ticket with FB miles, do so as soon as you’ve booked the ticket, and before any other changes are made to the reservation;
Try to find out the Amadeus reference for the reservation, as well as the KE reference, and be ready to give out both as necessary;
If the Amadeus and KE references end up being inconsistent, work out which one is correct for which bit (in my case, the KE was generally correct, as it seemed the Amadeus one wasn’t always updated properly) and try not to lose sleep over the one which is incorrect.

To be fair, all the FB and KE staff I spoke to were professional and helpful, and generally called me back promptly when needed.

* For my routing and dates, a Y-class fare was significantly cheaper than the lowest promotional fare in Prestige class, hence it was ‘worth’ using FB miles for an upgrade. YMMV.

** Interestingly, the Amadeus PNR shows up in “Manage My Booking” on www.klm.com (even though there’s no AF/KL/KQ/DL metal involved in the itinerary) – although with the incorrect dates for the non-upgraded part of the itinerary, of course.


KL895
Mar 27, 12, 12:48 pm
In particular, KE seem to have a unique PNR system (using a 7-digit number, rather than a 6-character alphanumeric reference, which most other airlines seem to use). Unfortunately, this means that KE staff can’t easily look up an AF/KL/Amadeus PNR, and FB can’t easily look up a KE PNR.

The same goes for bookings in China, albeit a bit different: bookings get a 5-character number there. You can only find out the "real" PNR, for example to add the booking the "My Bookings" and choose a seat, by calling the Chinese KLM office

Konda
Apr 9, 13, 5:12 am
I tried to do the same, but it didn't work.

I booked an economy class KE ticket in the most expensive fair. It was booked as YOWKE.

I then asked FB to upgrade the ticket to business class with my FB Miles (which was last week), and they said they would submit it to Korean Air to upgrade it. Today FB called back and said Korean Air doesn't want to upgrade the ticket because they don't allow non-endorsable tickets to be upgraded.

I already paid the full fair for the ticket which was a lot more than the cheap fairs they offered, so I am not sure what to do now. I don't want to fly economy class, the only reason I booked it was because I have so many miles that I never use, and FB told me if I would book in the expensive Y fare they would be able to upgrade it.

Anyone any suggestions. What does non-endorsable mean, and is there a way to remove that from a ticket for a fee?

FB was very rude and unhelpful, they just kept repeating that it was not possible, even though they first told me it would be possible if I would book the Y fare.


irishguy28
Apr 9, 13, 9:49 am
Anyone any suggestions. What does non-endorsable mean, and is there a way to remove that from a ticket for a fee?

A non-endorsable ticket is a ticket which cannot be used on, or transferred to, any airline other than the one that issued it (http://www.meridiantravelinc.com/faqs.html#faq12). Did you buy the ticket from KE? Does the e-ticket number start with 180?



I already paid the full fair for the ticket which was a lot more than the cheap fairs they offered, so I am not sure what to do now. I don't want to fly economy class, the only reason I booked it was because I have so many miles that I never use, and FB told me if I would book in the expensive Y fare they would be able to upgrade it.


Can I ask why you didn't use miles to redeem a business-class ticket on KE in the first place? If you have so many miles, it's a far better use of them - you don't have to pay for an expensive economy ticket to begin with. Upgrading with miles in Flying Blue is not a very good use of miles - you first need to have an expensive economy ticket, and there is no guarantee that there will be award space available into which you can upgrade. It's always advisable to do your research first, particularly if you are only buying the ticket in order to upgrade.

You should check the fare rules and see if you can cancel your Y class ticket without penalty.


Also bear in mind that KE is one of the few airlines in SkyTeam to have blackout periods for redeeming/upgrading - if your travel falls within these periods, it could be the real reason. See the dates here (http://www.flyingblue.com/earn-miles/airlines/partner/191/korean-air.html)

Konda
Apr 10, 13, 12:40 am
A non-endorsable ticket is a ticket which cannot be used on, or transferred to, any airline other than the one that issued it (http://www.meridiantravelinc.com/faqs.html#faq12). Did you buy the ticket from KE? Does the e-ticket number start with 180?


Thanks for the info. Yes I booked it with KE directly, the ticket starts with 180.


Can I ask why you didn't use miles to redeem a business-class ticket on KE in the first place? If you have so many miles, it's a far better use of them - you don't have to pay for an expensive economy ticket to begin with. Upgrading with miles in Flying Blue is not a very good use of miles - you first need to have an expensive economy ticket, and there is no guarantee that there will be award space available into which you can upgrade. It's always advisable to do your research first, particularly if you are only buying the ticket in order to upgrade.


To be honest, I didn't know that this is possible. How can I redeem a business class ticket with Korean airlines with my FB miles?
When I use the awards booking system on the KLM site it doesn't offer me the direct flight I want, it only offers some weird flight with a long layover with another airline. So I assumed it wouldn't be possible?



You should check the fare rules and see if you can cancel your Y class ticket without penalty.


Also bear in mind that KE is one of the few airlines in SkyTeam to have blackout periods for redeeming/upgrading - if your travel falls within these periods, it could be the real reason. See the dates here (http://www.flyingblue.com/earn-miles/airlines/partner/191/korean-air.html)


The flight date is not in the blackout period.
So I guess the best is to cancel the flight (if there is no fee) and then try to book the complete business class ticket with my FB miles?

brunos
Apr 10, 13, 3:09 am
A bit weird that you thought that you could use FB miles to upgrade on a KE ticket from Y to J and not use your miles to buy a J ticket on KE.
YOWKE is a non-endorsable fare (means Y One Way KE), just like YRTKE was in KQ321's post a year ago (RT stands for Return Trip). It could be that KE changed its policy since March 2012. It could be that KE changed its policy or that there is no J award seat for your date of travel. if you cannot find J award for your date (as it seems from the KL website) then KE will likely not upgrade you because it is probable that it comes from the same fare bucket.
My suggestion is to call FB to see if they can find availability in J award on the nonstop flight for your travel date, then issue the award, then refund the Y ticket.

KQ321
Apr 10, 13, 1:38 pm
Very sorry to hear of your difficulties in booking the upgrade. In my experience last year, although it was a complicated process, all the FB staff I dealt with were very proactive and helpful.

Have you been speaking to the Flying Blue 'Ticket Plus' desk? (As mentioned above, there appears to be a special section which deals with this sort of complicated request, but you can only reach them by calling the regular FB line and asking to be put through).

What does non-endorsable mean, and is there a way to remove that from a ticket for a fee?
irishguy28 has explained this. I think that generally only IATA published fares are endorsable, and I wouldn't expect even a full-fare KE ticket to be endorsable.

There is no mention of an endorsable ticket being a pre-condition to upgrade on KE on the SkyTeam website:
SkyTeam Carrier: Korean Air
Marketing and Operating Code: KE
Eligible Full Fare Booking Classes: Y

And, as brunos noted, the YRTKE ticket I upgraded last year was non-endorsable (and although the rules may have changed since then, that doesn't appear to be mentioned anywhere...)

Note that to be able to upgrade:
a) your reservation needs to be in Y fare-class (it's a YOWKE ticket, so presumably it is but you should check*)
b) it needs to not be on any blackout dates (you say it isn't)
c) it needs to be on a KE-coded and operated flight
d) there needs to be availability in the relevant business class upgrade fare-bucket (Z, I think)

However, I wonder if there has been confusion over terminology somewhere. In the SkyTeam mileage upgrade programme on KE, only the highest fare-class (Y) is upgradeable, and this class is often referred to as 'full fare'. However, IATA published fares (which are endorsable) are also often referred to as 'full fare' - even though they are generally even more expensive than an airline's own 'full fare' tickets. So, perhaps someone has got mixed up between 'IATA full fare (and endorsable)' tickets (which you shouldn't need) and 'KE full fare' tickets (which you do need, and do have).

If you can cancel your current KE ticket, and rebook as a full FB award in business, that may be a better option. (However, you won't then earn any miles, while if you upgrade, you still earn award and level miles at the Y rate. As mentioned above, for my trip last year, the price of a YRTKE fare was substantially less than the cheapest Prestige fare, and meant I could upgrade one-way, and still earn miles both ways. YMMV).

* airline tickets will normally book into the fare-bucket indicated by the first letter of the fare basis - but there are occasional exceptions to this...

Konda
Apr 29, 13, 4:02 am
They didn't want to let me upgrade my Y ticket because of the non-endorsable status and they didn't want to make a new business class award booking because they said there were no award seats available.

So I have just decided to pay Korean Airlines the fare for the upgrade to business class (prestige class D).

It's so frustrating, I have a few hundred thousand FB miles, but whenever I want to use them for upgrades or award tickets for the flights I want they are never available :(

TerryK
Apr 29, 13, 7:06 am
They didn't want to let me upgrade my Y ticket because of the non-endorsable status....

Non-endoresable means the ticket is discounted, not full fare. Only full fare tickets are eligible for Skyteam upgrades. Full fare Y tickets are usually more expensive than D class tickets.

Konda
May 1, 13, 1:13 am
Non-endoresable means the ticket is discounted, not full fare. Only full fare tickets are eligible for Skyteam upgrades. Full fare Y tickets are usually more expensive than D class tickets.

I had a full fare Y ticket and they still said it was still non-endorsable (see earlier posts in this thread)

brunos
May 1, 13, 2:41 am
I had a full fare Y ticket and they still said it was still non-endorsable (see earlier posts in this thread)

Sorry to insist, but YOWKE is not 'full fare", at least not in IATA parlance; that would be YOW.
For example on CDG-ICN, YOWKE is 1,547 while YOW is 2448. That is a meaningful difference.
YOWKE is KE highest flexible fare with restriction that it can only be used for travel on KE. the terminology of "full fare" is somewhat vague. But "endorsable" and "non-endorsable" is a clear practical term. Airlines periodically change the fare buckets that can be used for upgrade, KE apparently restrict FB upgrades on tickets that they issue to endorsable fare buckets, and YOWKE is not one of them.
Of course, KE is more generous in its upgrade policy with its own Skypass members. But it is common among all airlines.
In any case, if there are no Biz award available, you would not be able to upgrade to Biz.
PS: Sad that you could not use your miles. If you plan to travel in Biz, your inventory of miles will get devalued by 25% in June (and more in PE or F).

RigpigMalta
May 1, 13, 2:49 am
[It's so frustrating, I have a few hundred thousand FB miles, but whenever I want to use them for upgrades or award tickets for the flights I want they are never available :([/QUOTE]

I know how you feel, that's why I dumped FB from this month :(



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