All Nippon Airways Mileage Club - Seriously considering jumping ship fron UA to ANA

Greetings,

I have been a loyal UA flyer since 1989. I've been an elite flyer for the last 10 years and a 1K for the last 3 years. I'm about 180,000 miles away from becoming an UA million miller and lifetime *A gold member.

I fly a lot to Shanghai, often with business/pleasure stops in Tokyo, Osaka and Fukuoka, somewhere in between my time in Shanghai.

There has always been a lot left to be desired on UA compared to an Asia carrier like NH, but I stuck with UA because I found their FF program to be one of the best. I liked the fact I got full mileage credit no matter how cheap the air-fare (plus 100% bonuses), I like the availability of upgrades (both domestic and international). But after the merger started happening with CO, the quality of UA's program has been falling by the wayside. UA seems to care more about selling every seat and seat upgrade than rewarding those who have been most loyal to their airline.

So my plan is to get to Million Mile status on UA, in the next 20 months. Upon reaching that goal and achieving lifetime *G status, I was hoping to start exploring other *A airline options with my *G status at least allowing for easier check in and lounge access until I achieve status on another *A carrier. I've flown NH from SHA to HND and domestically between HND (and NRT) to FUK. I know the service is good to great on the short haul flights. But what about the long haul flights? I haven't flown NH between LAX and NRT in a very long time (10 years at least). I'd like to ask a few questions.

How is the new HND-LAX route (both ways)?

Can anybody tell me about the realistic chances of upgrading to Premium Economy from an economy ticket once you've achieved Platinum Status?

A long time ago I couldn't get seat assignments in economy on NH until the time of check in? Has that changed? Does it change with your FF status?

I'm still confused about this Upgrade Points System. Is this similar to UA's Regional Premiere Upgrade (formerly CR1) and Global Premiere Upgrade (formerly SWU)? ANA's web site doesn't seem to explain to how earn the points, simply how to redeem them. I'd like to know how you earn them?

Thanks in advance for your time to answer my questions.

How is the new HND-LAX route (both ways)?

That route is operated by a 772ER with the older product (lie-flat C, PY, Y). I've never flown it but in terms of hardware it's average. If you don't need the particular timing of the HND-LAX flight and want the "new" full-flat C seats, I'd go LAX-NRT instead. (The new Y seats are shell types and are not so comfortable from what I hear.)

Can anybody tell me about the realistic chances of upgrading to Premium Economy from an economy ticket once you've achieved Platinum Status?

It depends on the route and the day, but your chances are not bad. Keep in mind that you and only you are eligible for the upgrade.

A long time ago I couldn't get seat assignments in economy on NH until the time of check in? Has that changed? Does it change with your FF status?

Seats can be assigned at the time of purchase, and with few exceptions no seats are blocked.

I'm still confused about this Upgrade Points System. Is this similar to UA's Regional Premiere Upgrade (formerly CR1) and Global Premiere Upgrade (formerly SWU)? ANA's web site doesn't seem to explain to how earn the points, simply how to redeem them. I'd like to know how you earn them?

You receive Upgrade Points depending on how many miles you flew the previous year (http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/us/e/asw_common/amc/reference/elite/upgrade_point05.html). They can only be used with certain types of fares -- the cheapest international Y and C fares are off-limits.

To be honest, there are a lot of things to like about UA's MP program: unlimited domestic upgrades, upgrades to Y+, one-way awards, decent domestic service in Y, etc. Don't expect that with NH. On the other hand, NH gives double Premium Points (PPs) for intra-Japan routes and 1.5x PPs for China routes, and they offer good benefits for residents of Japan.

Can anybody tell me about the realistic chances of upgrading to Premium Economy from an economy ticket once you've achieved Platinum Status?

This is quite common, apparently even for non-ANA *G - however, the number of routes with PY is decreasing (LAX-HND is still one) as aircraft are refitted. The new layouts don't currently include PY seats, although the old layouts might be around for a while yet.


A long time ago I couldn't get seat assignments in economy on NH until the time of check in? Has that changed? Does it change with your FF status?


Yes, you can choose seat from reservation online (even before flights are ticketed) and you can view available seats online before booking also. There are some blocked seats for basinet positions that are released later and apparently some that are only selectable from NH elites. I have never had trouble securing an exit row seat though.


I'm still confused about this Upgrade Points System. Is this similar to UA's Regional Premiere Upgrade (formerly CR1) and Global Premiere Upgrade (formerly SWU)? ANA's web site doesn't seem to explain to how earn the points, simply how to redeem them. I'd like to know how you earn them?


The points are based on your NH elite status and the amount of premium points you earned the previous year - a guide (http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/us/e/asw_common/amc/reference/elite/upgrade.html) They can only be used on expensive tickets though.

There have been few threads recently comparing NH to UA and others for in flight experience. The main discussion points were
- the service, food and drinks are far better on ANA in all classes
- ANA Y seats are quite narrow (particularly bulkhead/exit row), and the new ones are a bit hard, but at least don't have people reclining into you
- UA elites preferred the option to snag economy plus seating for the increased leg room, though the ability to reserve Y exit row seats on ANA may mitigate that


ETA: armagebedar's link above is far more useful than mine

Wow, ANA's mileage club program seems overly complicated.
Premier points, upgrade points, regular mileage points.
Even a formula to calculate premier points...

That route is operated by a 772ER with the older product (lie-flat C, PY, Y). I've never flown it but in terms of hardware it's average. If you don't need the particular timing of the HND-LAX flight and want the "new" full-flat C seats, I'd go LAX-NRT instead. (The new Y seats are shell types and are not so comfortable from what I hear.)



It depends on the route and the day, but your chances are not bad. Keep in mind that you and only you are eligible for the upgrade.



Seats can be assigned at the time of purchase, and with few exceptions no seats are blocked.



You receive Upgrade Points depending on how many miles you flew the previous year (http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/us/e/asw_common/amc/reference/elite/upgrade_point05.html). They can only be used with certain types of fares -- the cheapest international Y and C fares are off-limits.

To be honest, there are a lot of things to like about UA's MP program: unlimited domestic upgrades, upgrades to Y+, one-way awards, decent domestic service in Y, etc. Don't expect that with NH. On the other hand, NH gives double Premium Points (PPs) for intra-Japan routes and 1.5x PPs for China routes, and they offer good benefits for residents of Japan.

Thanks for the info. I'm not a resident of Japan, but I do travel there a lot.

I don't know when you flew UA last, but there hasn't been decent service in domestic Y in a long time (except perhaps on the P.S. transcon flights). MP was a great program, and is still a great way to rack up lots of frequent flier miles. But since the merger the only remaining benefit for me is free Y+ booking, which is nowhere as nice as PY that ANA offers. UDU's are becoming less possible since the merger, as UA would rather try and upsell somebody into Business or First than give the upgrade to a loyal FFer. Thanks to the new SHARES system you don't even automatically clear UDU upgrades in your elite window (100hrs for 1K) even when the seats are available, because they'd still rather try to sell those seats as paid upgrades (even at check-in). The Priority Check In, International Lounge Access and extra luggage is good, but you get that with *G these days as well.

The NH upgrade point system does sound similar to UA's RPU and GPU system as you can't get the upgrades on the cheapest air fare when if you want to upgrade on international flights (usually it's $500 to $600 more). But on UA there's no guarantee you'll get the upgrade, even if you buy the more expensive ticket. But ANA's Premium Economy looks very nice with the extra leg-room and plug in power for your computer. I could handle that over not being upgraded to C. So if I could become at least Platinum status and get the upgrades to PE, that may be the perfect solution, while I rack up upgrade points for an upgrade to "C"

As I mentioned, I'll still fly UA for 20 more months until I hit 1 million miles. If the airline improves, I'll certainly reconsider, but until then I've got my eyes set on NH or SQ.

Thanks again.

Don't forget on NH almost all economy fares earn 70% of actual miles.




I don't know when you flew UA last, but there hasn't been decent service in domestic Y in a long time (except perhaps on the P.S. transcon flights).

I think the decent service armagebedar mentioned about UA is about at least UA still offer complimentary full range benerage service. On NH domestic flights, other than apple juice or green tea being free, anything else refer you to their "ANA My Choice" buy on board menus, including OJ and starbucks coffee ! For UA you can still have a whole can, NH is in the tiny paper cup, half the size of UA's plastic cup and one serve only !




As I mentioned, I'll still fly UA for 20 more months until I hit 1 million miles. If the airline improves, I'll certainly reconsider, but until then I've got my eyes set on NH or SQ.


By the time you jumpship to NH, very likely premium economy will be gone completely. Permium economy basically only exist on the few 77W that fly NRT-ORD/IAD/MUC, and the 3 772ER for HND-LAX. It should take less than 2 years to reconfig those planes with Business staggered and removing premium economy. And you already know no other planes even the newly delivered 787 have any premium economy anymore.

For SQ, you should already know that unless you can reach PPS, even if you can reach KF gold, they don't really care your existance at all.

I think the decent service armagebedar mentioned about UA is about at least UA still offer complimentary full range benerage service. On NH domestic flights, other than apple juice or green tea being free, anything else refer you to their "ANA My Choice" buy on board menus, including OJ and starbucks coffee ! For UA you can still have a whole can, NH is in the tiny paper cup, half the size of UA's plastic cup and one serve only !

Exactly -- for the short ITM-HND flight, it's tolerable, but when you fly the longer segments to CTS, FUK, or OKA, it's ridiculous, IMO. JL has much better domestic service in all classes.

To the OP: have you considered OZ? It may be easier to maintain status with them, and they offer one-stop service to a lot of Japanese cities from their ICN hub.

Exactly -- for the short ITM-HND flight, it's tolerable, but when you fly the longer segments to CTS, FUK, or OKA, it's ridiculous, IMO. JL has much better domestic service in all classes.

To the OP: have you considered OZ? It may be easier to maintain status with them, and they offer one-stop service to a lot of Japanese cities from their ICN hub.

Thanks everybody for all the info.

Yeah, even on the NH SHA-HND flights they only offer you the bare minimum of Green Tea, Oolong, Cola, Diet Cola or Juice, everything else is premium. That is why I usually steal a few drinks from the ANA lounge to put in my carry-on before boarding ;) on domestic or short Intl. flights.

But my interpretation of good service are the FA's themselves, which on UA have been rather indignant to those passengers who fly with them, whether in Y, C or F. Many have been working for 20+ years and are bitter about losing their pensions and having to start all over again. Since the international flights give the most work-hours, hazard pay and most time off, the most senior of FA's end up on those flights and some of them do have quite a 'tude when it comes to simply asking for a drink (even in C).

As to flying OZ, I would consider it, but usually my final destination is usually Shanghai. So the one good thing UA has to offer right now is non-stop service between LAX and PVG. But I'm willing to stop in Tokyo first because I have business & friends there I can always see. Flying through ICN isn't as appealing.

One more question though. Assuming I don't pay a full-fare economy international ticket on NH, but not the cheapest fare either (like the tour group ones); If I become Platinum, do I not get the full miles plus 100% bonus?

Thanks again.

One more question though. Assuming I don't pay a full-fare economy international ticket on NH, but not the cheapest fare either (like the tour group ones); If I become Platinum, do I not get the full miles plus 100% bonus?

As PLT, you would get the 70% that counts towards your PP total (PPs are like EQMs), then another 100% in bonus mileage (i.e. RDMs), for a total of 70% PPs and 170% bonus miles.

Thanks everybody for all the info.

One more question though. Assuming I don't pay a full-fare economy international ticket on NH, but not the cheapest fare either (like the tour group ones); If I become Platinum, do I not get the full miles plus 100% bonus?

Thanks again.

The tour group fares only earn 50%
Most discounted Y are 70%
and only the expensive ones, full Y, and PY earn 100%

Here's a table of the fare bucket earning rate (https://www.ana.co.jp/wws/japan/e/asw_common/amc/reference/tameru/travel/flight/int/)
You get the bonus on all though.

Your future NH miles disappears in three 3yrs time once you get them
if you credit to NH-FFP unless you reach the highest status of Diamond -
which seems difficult to non-Jp residents:td:.

Also, in redeeming miles - UA seems to have better position. One way booking,
lower cost for award tickets, and strangely fewer miles for domestic Jp flts.

The biggest advantage of UA miles is that they never expire - only when
you add/redeem miles once in 18months^.

Recently I like to be more fond of UA-FFP rather than SQ/NH ones...:p

I'm in a somewhat similar situation as OP. Most of my miles come through credit card spend though, and I like that there is decent award availability especially in the BF cabin in CO/UA.

NH's award system almost always pulls up a WaitList, so I can't tell if it shows that by default or if availability for the higher seat classes are really that much more restricted.

Any feedback on that would be great.

Thanks!