Frontier Airlines EarlyReturns - Early summer schedule changes

Some early summer schedule changes:

MCI-AUS ends 5/14

MCI-BOS ends 5/16, which closes the Boston station

DCA-GRR becomes 6x/week, A319 DCA-GRR-DEN early AM and late PM return, taking the frequencies currently alloted to Madison. 6/7

DCA-MSN becomes 7x/week with E190 6/7

DCA-MKE becomes 7x/week with E190 -- the plane which today does MKE-MCO-DCA-MKE will plane operates MKE-DCA-MSN-DCA-MKE 6/7

DEN-ASE still shows ending 4/16 in spite of word the Q400 isn't leaving quite so fast

I have not had a chance to dig deeper into Denver, but I think the rest of OMA / MCI / MSN / MCO is as expected, including MSY-MSY/LAS four times per week.

Thanks for the report Knope. Guess that explains the shuffling with the E90 that was doing the MCO route. Not a big surprise on the AUS route, I know there were a fair number each time I was on that went onward to MKE with me. Probably not a strong route on its on O/D (and the schedule wasn't amazing either). I wonder at what point the cutting stops or if it really will just go back to MKE-DEN and MKE-Sun destinations. The 1x daily frequencies aren't doing them any favors on the corporate side, so how many of these routes can survive on low fare leisure traffic?

Do we have an update on how many DCA slots they have not being used currently? I wonder if eventually they'll have the E90s based there (they already have a base there for the USAirways flying right?). I'm also curious to see the loads on the GRR-DCA flights. I've looked at random seat maps and it never seems to be very full.

Some early summer schedule changes:

MCI-AUS ends 5/14

MCI-BOS ends 5/16, which closes the Boston station

DCA-GRR becomes 6x/week, A319 DCA-GRR-DEN early AM and late PM return, taking the frequencies currently alloted to Madison. 6/7

DCA-MSN becomes 7x/week with E190 6/7



Not a surprise that BOS is ending. Frontier did a great job of destroying a station that Midwest was able to make work for 27 years.

I wonder how long it will be before Frontier pulls the plug on MKE-LGA/DCA. They no longer have the frequency to effectively compete against Delta and Southwest.

It's nice to see the added frequency on DCA-MSN/GRR. I'm a bit surprised though as loads on both routes have generally been very weak. Maybe they think things will be better with Delta off the routes.

Not a surprise that BOS is ending. Frontier did a great job of destroying a station that Midwest was able to make work for 27 years.

What's really disheartening about Boston in my opinion is that it was set up to fail. MCI-BOS traffic falls through the floor in winter, yet that was a time when Frontier threw the 138-seat A319 at the route, flying a 7:00am departure which had to rely on 100% local traffic. Loads have been generally awful and they undoubtedly lost a lot of money in the market. The A319 is much more sustainable in summer in the market, when MCI-BOS catches fire. But apparently the (predictable) losses in winter soured the whole route.

If MCI-BOS needed to do well this winter to continue on this summer, they should have killed in back in January.

I wonder how long it will be before Frontier pulls the plug on MKE-LGA/DCA. They no longer have the frequency to effectively compete against Delta and Southwest.

I really thought MKE-DCA was a goner because it was mated with the morning MKE-MCO-MKE trip which got pulled and replaced with 3x/week A319.

It's nice to see the added frequency on DCA-MSN/GRR. I'm a bit surprised though as loads on both routes have generally been very weak. Maybe they think things will be better with Delta off the routes.

The early-AM DCA originator and late-pm return is not a prime time for anybody, and I don't relish GRR's row to hoe in making it work. At least through summer there should be through traffic to/from DEN, and maybe that's part of its role. I'm eager to see how Madison does. It's a reasonably attractive early afternoon westbound and later afternoon eastbound. And the E190 is easier to fill, but there won't be thru Denver traffic. It's make or break Madison traffic alone.

I really thought MKE-DCA was a goner because it was mated with the morning MKE-MCO-MKE trip which got pulled and replaced with 3x/week A319.



So did I. When Frontier loaded the spring cutbacks earlier this year, an internal source told me MKE-LGA/DCA were only safe through the summer. Given the generally horrible schedules (especially for DCA) and competitive response, I thought maybe they would just pull the plug on both routes now.

Perhaps DCA is not ending just yet due to Frontier's request for SDF slots.

I'm a bit surprised that MKE-MCO is sticking around, even at 3x weekly.

It's starting to look like Delta is the big winner in MKE.

Frontier did a great job of destroying a station that Midwest was able to make work for 27 years.


Frontier is destroying much of what Midwest built. Bedford made many promises in 2009. What did he deliver?

Frontier is destroying much of what Midwest built. Bedford made many promises in 2009. What did he deliver?

Really? This again? At least they tried. Whether or not they made the right decisions is something to argue over, but it isn't like they bought midwest just to shut it down. They added a bunch of flights back to MKE and MCI and took a huge loss because of it ($75 million hit in MKE last year). We can argue if they stuck it out longer maybe they could have turned it around but at this point its really not looking good for MKE at all. The tragedy is all the competition that lowered fares and made MKE so exciting over the years is probably going to result in us becoming just another spoke in everyone's system. I think Blue is right, Delta is starting to look like the winner here.

So did I. When Frontier loaded the spring cutbacks earlier this year, an internal source told me MKE-LGA/DCA were only safe through the summer. Given the generally horrible schedules (especially for DCA) and competitive response, I thought maybe they would just pull the plug on both routes now.

With how quickly Boston got the heave-ho, it wouldn't have been a surprise to see LGA and DCA go.

Perhaps DCA is not ending just yet due to Frontier's request for SDF slots.

Very possibly part of the story. If Frontier has surplus DCA slots, why should the DoT give them a new pair? I really question how successful they'll be in a market like DCA-SDF. USAirways already has three flights daily, and US is a huge brand in DC and a solid brand in Louisville. Frontier will come in and lower fares, but with nearly no FF base and just a single flight, the Airbus they pledge to use will struggle. It may do okay in summer, especially if it can serve thru passengers to/from Denver But come the offseason it will probably struggle mightily. That's the problem with just chasing leisure spill. When leisure demand is strong you can do fine. But when leisure demand is weaker, the business traffic sticks with their preferred airline and you lose your shirt. At Milwaukee, Frontier does still have a large frequent flyer base, and they're likely to do a whole lot better with the business segment on MKE-DCA than they do with SDF-DCA. That's no assurance that Frontier can do well enough with MKE-DCA business traffic to succeed, but there's still a large FF base here. And the clumsy uncertainty around AirTran (the MKE-DCA competitor) means it's not a slam dunk that former Frontier flyers are putting all their eggs in the AirTran basket.

It's starting to look like Delta is the big winner in MKE.

Yup. And in Kansas City, too. If Delta still had a decent portfolio of DCA slots you can bet they'd launch MKE-DCA. Perhaps they still will figure out a way to squeeze in a flight or two. I think everyone expects Southwest to move some or all of those DCA slots used for MKE to MDW or other elsewhere, but they don't know when. Until that's clearer one way or another, I wouldn't expect anybody else to jump in like Delta did with LGA. That was as much about serving all the top markets out of LaGuardia as about addressing shortcomings in the MKE landscape. But with them already adding a 4th flight months before it even launches, they apparently see an oppportunity.

Some early summer schedule changes:

DCA-MSN becomes 7x/week with E190 6/7



Double miles promo on the route thru 07/07/2012; registration is required.
http://www.frontierairlines.com/frequent-flyers/hot-offers/member-offers/madison-dc


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/frontier-airlines-expands-madison-washington-160000570.html

DCA-GRR becomes 6x/week, A319 DCA-GRR-DEN early AM and late PM return, taking the frequencies currently alloted to Madison. 6/7

Rumors are starting to fly and it appears that this route is getting the axe at the end of June. What's the point of increasing the frequency for a few weeks only to cut it later on?

Rumors are starting to fly and it appears that this route is getting the axe at the end of June. What's the point of increasing the frequency for a few weeks only to cut it later on?

It looks like GRR-DCA has been pulled from the booking engine.

This route was doomed from the very beginning. I never understood why Frontier thought they could profitably serve a third-tier business market flying a large Airbus jet only 3x weekly. And to start the route in the dead of winter with a late evening arrival from in DCA/early morning departure from DCA.

I've heard MSN-DCA has only done marginally better than GRR. Perhaps with a better flight schedule and smaller aircraft this route can hang on a bit longer.

It's quite obvious Frontier doesn't know how to utilize their DCA slot portfolio. And they want the DOT to give them slots for SDF and COS.

Part of me says that Frontier should simply pull the remaining point-to-point flying from MKE, MCI, and OMA. With some of the poor decisions Frontier's market analysts have made over the past year, I really wonder if they want what remains of the former Midwest route network to actually work. It would be far better for them to focus on making DEN and COS successful.

Really? This again? At least they tried. Whether or not they made the right decisions is something to argue over, but it isn't like they bought midwest just to shut it down. They added a bunch of flights back to MKE and MCI and took a huge loss because of it ($75 million hit in MKE last year). We can argue if they stuck it out longer maybe they could have turned it around but at this point its really not looking good for MKE at all. The tragedy is all the competition that lowered fares and made MKE so exciting over the years is probably going to result in us becoming just another spoke in everyone's system. I think Blue is right, Delta is starting to look like the winner here.

Let's see, NW created Frontier in its run-up to merge with Delta and Delta is the winner, what a coincidence @:-)

Not that I agree, Delta has no stomach for a battle with the LCCs, at best MKE will be a spoke on the Delta network,so I think it will be status-quo for DAL. I suppose in a way that's a win.

I'm not sure that Frontier was ever meant to succeed.

Let's see, NW created Frontier in its run-up to merge with Delta and Delta is the winner, what a coincidence @:-)

Not that I agree, Delta has no stomach for a battle with the LCCs, at best MKE will be a spoke on the Delta network,so I think it will be status-quo for DAL. I suppose in a way that's a win.

I'm not sure that Frontier was ever meant to succeed.

Northwest had a hand in helping Midwest survive long enough to be taken over by RJET, but I think its a huge stretch to claim there is any collusion between Northwest and RJET especially since Northwest never touched Frontier. What benefit would it serve to RJET?

MKE was always a strong town for Northwest FFs and while I doubt we'll see Delta add something like MKE-MCO, they do maintain a lot of options to each of their hubs out of MKE and fly more than just small RJs.

Hazelrah surfaces with his words of wisdom, once again. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's quite obvious Frontier doesn't know how to utilize their DCA slot portfolio. And they want the DOT to give them slots for SDF and COS.

Part of me says that Frontier should simply pull the remaining point-to-point flying from MKE, MCI, and OMA. With some of the poor decisions Frontier's market analysts have made over the past year, I really wonder if they want what remains of the former Midwest route network to actually work. It would be far better for them to focus on making DEN and COS successful.

I could not have said this better myself. It seems Republic/Frontier took the baton from Midwest and became the sequel to Dumb and Dumber. I don't like saying this because I know plenty of employees and Frontier cheerleaders read posts here but I don't see a Frontier Airlines in 5 years. I hope I'm wrong.

Hazelnut surfaces with his words of wisdom, once again. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

You are entitled to disagree of course without namecalling. :td:

We have seen the path that every surviving legacy has taken (bankruptcy), and yes Midwest was a legacy. IMO the Northwest deal stank to high heaven from the beginning. Service to many small midwestern cities that historically had service has been cratered as a result, now Frontier service in MKE is being cratered.

Meh, recently drove to MKE and enjoyed Frontier MKE<-> MCO, non-stop and in stretch. I'm not sure if this route is being maintained but I certainly always favor the non-stops. These days I have little loyalty and consider myself a free agent. Southwest, Allegiant, Air Tran, and Frontier are all reasonable alternatives.

I could not have said this better myself. It seems Republic/Frontier took the baton from Midwest and became the sequel to Dumb and Dumber. I don't like saying this because I know plenty of employees and Frontier cheerleaders read posts here but I don't see a Frontier Airlines in 5 years. I hope I'm wrong.

The thing to remember is, we are now discussing a very small portion of the F9 network. Yes it is where the action is happening, and where some of us are from, but some tend to forget F9 has a huge network out of DEN and a large base of FF there. The YX side of the network did not work very well for them and it is very unfortunate, and sure they have a lot of competition in DEN, but I think they are going to look like the smart one in 5 years because they decided to cut costs early. I don't think fuel is going to come back down anytime soon and just like in 08 when WN made its very smart hedges, F9 is making moves so they can be sustainable with high fuel. Granted, if fuel shoots through the roof, all the airlines will be in trouble.