California - Snow chain controls in California (merged)

Hi,

We'll be driving from Fresno to Yosemite, and we would like to see Mariposa Grove. I saw on nps's site saying 'call' on road status.

Thanks in advance!

Right now, yes. But - - we have another storm due in this weekend so that could change.

You can check road status here -

http://www.dot.ca.gov/

Also, the CHP often posts chain controls here -

http://cad.chp.ca.gov/
(For highway 41, go to the Merced region.)

And finally, you may also have to call Yosemite Road Conditions at 209-372-0200

You definitely need chains today (Sunday).

We definitely don't want chains since we are driving a rental car.

According to http://cad.chp.ca.gov/, there is no chain control on Oakhurst right now (9am CET).

Thanks a lot for the info!

Monday is supposed to be clear and another storm cycle is currently predicted starting Tuesday.

Monday is supposed to be clear and another storm cycle is currently predicted starting Tuesday.

Is this common? We'll be there just before Good Friday, so hopefully we can drive into the park.

That is still a week and a half away. Your best option is to check the Caltrans website just before you want to go. As for "common," this is the Sierra Nevada. Weather can occur any time of year but early April should be ok for Yosemite Valley and Mariposa Grove. Forget about the high country or Glacier Point.

We definitely don't want chains since we are driving a rental car.

According to http://cad.chp.ca.gov/, there is no chain control on Oakhurst right now (9am CET).

Thanks a lot for the info!

Depending on the weather forecast, you might want to rent a 4-wheel drive vehicle with snow tires. In most cases, that is an acceptable alternative to chains. But on the other hand, if you are not used to driving in snow, you probably wouldn't want to drive on snowy roads in either case.

That is still a week and a half away. Your best option is to check the Caltrans website just before you want to go. As for "common," this is the Sierra Nevada. Weather can occur any time of year but early April should be ok for Yosemite Valley and Mariposa Grove. Forget about the high country or Glacier Point.

What I'm hoping for is just to be able to drive into Yosemite Valley on Hwy 41 and hopefully see Maripose Grove. I don't have time to explore the high country unfortunately (I only have 2 days there :().

Thanks again for the info!

The Mariposa grove is at the end of a road that begins with a fork at the park entrance on highway 41. It is not plowed during the winter and you are not allowed to drive up this road during this time, instead you must walk or ski in (about 2 miles). That being said, as spring approaches it might open up so be sure to call the park for the latest status. Highway 41 continues in the other direction from this fork...

Also, just as a warning, I know OP wants to see the grove but if the weather is bad right before or during a trip in or out of the park, it is generally a bad idea to be on 41. Instead one should take highway 140 which is much lower in elevation and rarely has snow/chain issues.

... Also, just as a warning, I know OP wants to see the grove but if the weather is bad right before or during a trip in or out of the park, it is generally a bad idea to be on 41. Instead one should take highway 140 which is much lower in elevation and rarely has snow/chain issues.
Agreed, but the OP is staying in Fresno. SR140 is a long way out of the way for Fresno-Yosemite. Depending on conditions on his day of travel, that may be the only way but he should check first.

I'm in Clovis and I was planning on visiting Yosemite today, but then apparently there is chain control in all roads in Yosemite.

So I talked to Mr. Nacho and we decided that we don't want to buy/rent chains (we called Avis and they don't provide chains for their rentals), so we gave up on going into the park.

Instead we drove on 168 hoping to see some landscape, but then after Parther there is chain control sign saying that chain must be carried at all times. No excpetion.

So we had to turn around and head back. Very disappointing. We don't think that there should be a sign like that permanently - I can understand if it's during winter, but in summer, that's crazy.

I think a lot of people will just drive in without chains but we don't want to break the law and eventually get a fine.

I think those shops selling/installing chains outside those check point must be doing pretty well since tourists go to those places without being able to find out where exactly those chain control areas are.

Do the buses going to Yosemite from Merced have chain carried in their trunk?

Is it like this everywhere North of Death Valley? Tomorrow we are heading to Turlock and we are hoping to be able to go through some scenic route.

Thanks in advance!

Instead we drove on 168 hoping to see some landscape, but then after Parther there is chain control sign saying that chain must be carried at all times. No excpetion.

So we had to turn around and head back. Very disappointing. We don't think that there should be a sign like that permanently - I can understand if it's during winter, but in summer, that's crazy.

Are you sure that sign says "must be carried at all times", not "may be required at any time"?

Those signs aren't permanent anyway. Someone (law enforcement) just need to turn them 90 degrees at the right time.

I think those shops selling/installing chains outside those check point must be doing pretty well since tourists go to those places without being able to find out where exactly those chain control areas are.

CALTRANS does keep their web site up to date on state highways with chain controls and where those controls start. You can input any highway number and it will give you current conditions. Weather has been a little odd this year with rain/snow coming much later in the season than normal. Chains were required up to Reno/Tahoe last week.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/cgi-bin/roads.cgi

It's not exactly summer, it's barely April. In the Sierra, it's possible to have huge snowstorms this time of year. One of the best dumps when I went skiing was mid-May in Mammoth a few years ago.

I thought the rule was that you always had to carry chains in the mountains during the snow season. I'm sure the buses all do have them.

I am sorry to hear that you abandoned your visit to our mountain areas. Auto parts stores and major department stores like WalMart sell cheap, plastic chains that only cost a few dollars. Many people just put them in the trunk to comply with the requirement and discard them afterward. Even if you chose to avoid carrying chains, you would never be subject to any kind of enforcement unless you got stuck and needed to call for help or ran across a chain checkpoint where you could simply turn around before being inspected. They do not just randomly stop cars to check for chains.

The roads into Yosemite Valley have all been open and clear with no restrictions all week. Also, I was just up SR 168 on Monday and saw no snow until just below Shaver Lake and no need for chains. Yesterday, I went up above Pine Flat Lake (east of Clovis/Fresno) to photograph wildflowers. It was quite beautiful. I didn't even see snow on the hills above the road all the way to roads end.

Again, I'm sorry you will miss our beautiful mountains.

Turlock is just a small town on Highway 99 south of Sacramento. Their mountain roads are out of my area so I cannot comment.

Thanks for all the comments.

The signs I saw today don't contain any 'may' word, it's a 'must' and with 'no exception' on it. The sign was permanent, I don't know if CHP turned it 90 degrees during summer.

I called CHP earlier today and was told that if I drive into Yosemite I have to have chain in the car at ALL times. I have also searched online to find some information about where exactly they have chain control areas in CA, and with no luck.

We were hoping to get to Shaver Lake and there was a sign just after Prather. We were able to drive up to above 3000 ft before there is a turnaround point. The weather was fine here in Clovis but then it was extremely foggy up there and it's pretty cloudy early this afternoon.

The mountain is very beautiful and we really hope to see them. Where can you find cheap chain that costs a few bucks? The cheapest we have seen online is about USD 20. We are driving a Chevy Traverse and it's a pretty big tires. We feel that it's a waste to spend USD 20 for something that is required to have but not needed.

We have time to drive around tomorrow before heading to Turlock, and we are thinking about driving up from Clovis on Hwy 41 up to Oakhurst before the check point, and then head north on 49 to Big Oak Flat to see some Giant Sequoia, then to Turlock. We are not intending to get into Yosemite since we only have 1 day there.

Would we run into chain control area if we drive on this route tomorrow?

Thanks in advance!

The signs are removed or turned once the snow not in danger of falling - but snow can fall well into June, and it is wise to acknowledge that and be prepared. In Yosemite high country it can actually snow almost any time of year.

CalTrans and the CHP have been clients of mine, and I can vouch for snow when you would not expect it in some flatter, lower parts of the USA.

Check CalTrans website for chain control information, conditions and maps, etc. here (http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist3/departments/mtce/controlmp.htm).

The mountain is very beautiful and we really hope to see them. Where can you find cheap chain that costs a few bucks? The cheapest we have seen online is about USD 20. We are driving a Chevy Traverse and it's a pretty big tires. We feel that it's a waste to spend USD 20 for something that is required to have but not needed.

Thanks in advance!Buy the chains at Walmart and return them if you don't use them. It's perfectly legit to do so, and I actually got the idea from a Walmart employee who told me unused chains could be returned. That way if you need them, you have them, and if you end up not needing them, you get a refund. Problem solved.:cool:

The signs are removed or turned once the snow not in danger of falling - but snow can fall well into June, and it is wise to acknowledge that and be prepared. In Yosemite high country it can actually snow almost any time of year.

CalTrans and the CHP have been clients of mine, and I can vouch for snow when you would not expect it in some flatter, lower parts of the USA.

Check CalTrans website for chain control conditions and maps, etc. here (http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist3/departments/mtce/controlmp.htm).

Thanks for the link, but that is only for district 3, I need district 6 and 10 where I couldn't find it on the site.

Why can't Caltran put up an interactive map of where on earth those signs are?

I saw in Walmart.com that snow tires can't be returned even though it was unused.

The thing is that I'm not trying to go onto Tioga Road, I was only thinking about saying in the Valley which was like max 5000 ft. I was in Grand Canyon last Feb with snow storm and I was driving a Chevy Malibu from LAX without any problem.

I live in Sweden and this chain thing is so foreign to me. I think I'll go to Yosemite some other times.

I really hope that I'll be able to see some mountain and big sequoia tomorrow.

Thanks for the link, but that is only for district 3, I need district 6 and 10 where I couldn't find it on the site.


Did you look at the link I posted on post #3? It has an interactive map showing where chain controls are in effect.

Well, your plan to drive to Oakhurst and then follow SR 49 will keep you below any chance of snow and should be trouble free. This will not really involve what we think of as "mountains," being more in the nature of foothills. I haven't been north of Oakhurst yet this year so cannot say for sure but you may find some wildflowers along the way. SR 49 can be scenic and is certainly in an historic area. The drive will take you right by the Wassama Roundhouse State Historic Park and the California Mines and Minerals Museum at Mariposa. Neither is particularly impressive but might make for an interesting quick stop.

There are some interesting galleries and photo/art studios in Coarsegold and Oakhurst and some places to eat.

If you are going to go as far as Oakhurst, I'd suggest just continuing on up highway 41 as far as you feel comfortable. After Oakhurst is the little mountain community of Fish Camp and beyond that is the entrance to Yosemite Park. If you get that far, just ask the ranger at the entrance station if you need chains and take his advice. If he says yes, just turn around and go down to Oakhurst for your turn onto SR 49. Again, unless you get stuck in snow or pass a snow check point, no police will ever stop you to see if you have chains. Even at a check point, the worst that might happen is they will tell you you cannot pass.

Did you look at the link I posted on post #3? It has an interactive map showing where chain controls are in effect.

I did but it didn't show anything at the chain control area where I was today. I have just checked the map and it showed nothing about chain control, even in Tahoe area.

I'm pretty sure California does not *generally* require chains to be carried in passenger vehicles at any time of year (commercial trucks may be a different story; they are sometimes required to have "maximum chains in their possession" even when chains are not required to be installed).

I found the sign you saw on Google Street View, and you are right; it looks permanent (though it might be pulled out in the summer). And I see Yosemite website references to the same requirement. I suspect those are one-off rules due to the fact that both effectively dead-end in the mountains without many services; if you were to be at the ski area near Huntington lake on 168 all day, or in Yosemite overnight, and chain controls go up, you'd be trapped. One key law (and the reason for the "No Exceptions" wording) is that 4wd vehicles must have chains when the controls are actually up, even though the road is almost always closed before they'd be required to put them on. Signs like that aren't common on other highways where they can just send you back to the nearest city.

Personally, if I had an up to date weather forecast showing zero precipitation, and was only going to be in the area for a few hours, I wouldn't worry about getting them; nobody's going to be popping trunks inspecting for them unless chain controls actually go up.

However, understand that it is still "winter" in the mountains -- just had a major snowstorm in the central area last Saturday that had full chain requirements on US50, I-80, CA88, CA89, and CA395 for most of the day.

BTW, the map linked in post #3 is accurate when it shows chain controls, but isn't a definitive list of possible chain locations -- many of the towns/circles in the upper elevations happen to be potential points, e.g. Kyburz and Twin Bridges on US50, but I'm very certain that there are never chain controls in Sloughhouse or Elk Grove, both at sea level :-)

I saw in Walmart.com that snow tires can't be returned even though it was unused.

I live in Sweden and this chain thing is so foreign to me.
Snow tires and snow chains are not the same thing, perhaps there was a language issue in the store?

I too am sorry you missed your opportunity.

You started a previous thread on this subject about 2 weeks ago where a number of useful suggestions were offered -

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/california/1327850-mariposa-grove-rd-open.html

including checking the CHP and Caltrans websites or renting a vehicle with 4-wheel drive and snow tires. The 4 WD vehicles with snow tires are almost always allowed to pass without chains, especially at these lower altitudes.

There are no chains required on highway 41 or any of the roads into the main areas of the park or Mariposa Grove today. I got the information from the Caltrans website and the Yosemite Road conditions phone number listed on the Caltrans website. There is no rain or snow predicted for the next couple of days and the roads show remain open. You do not need to carry chains in a non-commercial vehicle.

Or at least chains were needed over Donner summit. I was skiing at Northstar April 4 and 5, and drove back late afternoon on the 5th. We came over Donner Summit on I-80 at around 4:30-5pm and it was snowing HARD over the pass, and chain controls went up just after we came thru. There was a good inch plus of snow sticking on the road when we came thru.

So this time of year those signs are very much still appropriate, and on April 5 in particular they applied.

Having said that, if you are in a 4WD car you can almost always get away without chains. Caltrans has three snow conditions, R1, R2, and R3. R1 just means you need tires rated for mud and snow, ie any 4 season radial, just not summer sports car tires. R2 means chains OR 4WD with mud/snow rated tires. R3 means chains AND 4 wheel drive, but in practice R3 is quite rare, usually they go from R2 straight to Closed, at least for major roads. Not that I'm suggesting ignoring a posted warning sign, of course.

Bob


I'm in Clovis and I was planning on visiting Yosemite today, but then apparently there is chain control in all roads in Yosemite.

So I talked to Mr. Nacho and we decided that we don't want to buy/rent chains (we called Avis and they don't provide chains for their rentals), so we gave up on going into the park.

Instead we drove on 168 hoping to see some landscape, but then after Parther there is chain control sign saying that chain must be carried at all times. No excpetion.

So we had to turn around and head back. Very disappointing. We don't think that there should be a sign like that permanently - I can understand if it's during winter, but in summer, that's crazy.

I think a lot of people will just drive in without chains but we don't want to break the law and eventually get a fine.

I think those shops selling/installing chains outside those check point must be doing pretty well since tourists go to those places without being able to find out where exactly those chain control areas are.

Do the buses going to Yosemite from Merced have chain carried in their trunk?

Is it like this everywhere North of Death Valley? Tomorrow we are heading to Turlock and we are hoping to be able to go through some scenic route.

Thanks in advance!

I too am sorry you missed your opportunity.

You started a previous thread on this subject about 2 weeks ago where a number of useful suggestions were offered -

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/california/1327850-mariposa-grove-rd-open.html

including checking the CHP and Caltrans websites or renting a vehicle with 4-wheel drive and snow tires. The 4 WD vehicles with snow tires are almost always allowed to pass without chains, especially at these lower altitudes.

There are no chains required on highway 41 or any of the roads into the main areas of the park or Mariposa Grove today. I got the information from the Caltrans website and the Yosemite Road conditions phone number listed on the Caltrans website. There is no rain or snow predicted for the next couple of days and the roads show remain open. You do not need to carry chains in a non-commercial vehicle.

I called CHP and they said that even though there is no chain control, I still need chains inside Yosemite. So we drove along 49 then 140, we had some time so we decided to head in 140 to almost to El Portal (just to do a picnic by Merced river with the kids). We met 2 ladies at the picnic site and I asked if they know whether there is more thing to see. They said, 'Yosemite is beautiful .......' Then I said but I was told that I need chain, they said, 'you are only 10 mins away from a very beautiful site, why not just drive in, the weather is beautiful......'

On Hwy 49 we saw tons of signs that turned 90 degree.

We struggled and decided to drive into Yosemite, at the entrance we told the ranger that we don't have chain with us and asked if we could get in. She said, 'there was some snow earlier today in the valley but it's fine and nice now, I can see that you have a 4WD with M+S tires so you should be fine.'

We were :mad: and :eek: and :) because:

1. We could have 2 whole day there if we'd drive in regardless of chain control;
2. Why on earth do they state on Yosemite's site saying that chain must be carried at all time and if you don't you risk a $5000 fine?
3. I didn't get to see a Giant Sequoia :(
4. Yosemite is so beautiful - even though we only had 3.5 hours there.

Once again thanks for all the inputs and we'll be back to Sweden tomorrow.

In Europe chains are only used on the Alps - M+S is adequate for most conditions.

I’m sorry you didn’t get to spend more time in Yosemite, and understand the frustration with the conflicting information. Glad you got to see some of it, and I hope you plan a longer visit next time you’re in the US.

Sometimes signs, websites, and even hurried dispatchers oversimplify things -- the reason in the case of Yosemite and CA168 is that the roads “dead end” to places with few to no services. I’d bet the CHP and NPS deal with this all the time -- people trapped in Yosemite or the ski area when snow starts falling and chain requirements go up, with no chains, no hotel available, no place to camp. Some of these people will attempt to drive through anyway (causing accidents/spinouts/injuries and blocking traffic), some will have to call an expensive tow truck to deliver chains, and some will end up sleeping in their car somewhere dangerous, or worse (read about the Stolpa family who tried to avoid a road closure and ended up in a very bad situation). So people often feel it’s better to overstate the danger or requirements. And sometimes people (especially third parties) just get it wrong.

I did find third-party Yosemite websites that state or imply that carrying chains is required, regardless of the current road conditions, but the official NPS website (http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/tirechains.htm) seems to state it pretty accurately -- that you must have chains when actual chain controls are in effect, and in the “Read More” link, the $5000 fine is for not putting them on when required, not for not having them in the vehicle when no chain requirements are in effect.

And as you found out, nobody is pulling cars over in dry conditions to check for chains, nor did they deny entry when you *told* them you didn’t have them. And even in an R-2 chain control area with CHP checkers, they don’t insist on seeing the chains that 4WD passenger vehicles must carry in that case. But if there were an issue (either the unlikely R-3 control, or you get stuck and block traffic but can’t put on the chains you don’t have), that fine would come into play.

As I stated, I wouldn’t hesitate to go without chains if I were going for the day and had an accurate forecast with radar showing zero precipitation possible. I wouldn’t go overnight or when the weather could get iffy -- the Sierra can go from bright sun to blizzard in the matter of a few hours. I’d think that much of the Sierra is comparable to the Alps (though I haven’t been; certainly on the list!) in terms of snow and road conditions.

The problem is one can not tell - weather can change very rapidly, and in some places (high Sierra) one can end up with 400 cm of snow. It's not terribly unusual to experience 20-25 cm in one day. California not infrequently has articles and TV coverage of people who have been stuck for days because they proceeded into areas with improper equipment and have been stuck.

It can be frustrating, unless you know the regulations and restrictions. In many circumstances, 4WD with Mud and Snow tires are sufficient, whereas a standard vehicle with 2WD would require chains.


http://0.tqn.com/d/autorepair/1/0/L/n/7/-/snow_vs_tires.jpghttp://thetialys.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/chains.jpg

Snow Tire and Snow Chain type

Tires which meet the California requirement for snow tires have the letters "M+S" on the side of the tire. This is what the checkers look for.

I called CHP and they said that even though there is no chain control, I still need chains inside Yosemite. So we drove along 49 then 140, we had some time so we decided to head in 140 to almost to El Portal (just to do a picnic by Merced river with the kids). We met 2 ladies at the picnic site and I asked if they know whether there is more thing to see. They said, 'Yosemite is beautiful .......' Then I said but I was told that I need chain, they said, 'you are only 10 mins away from a very beautiful site, why not just drive in, the weather is beautiful......'

On Hwy 49 we saw tons of signs that turned 90 degree.

We struggled and decided to drive into Yosemite, at the entrance we told the ranger that we don't have chain with us and asked if we could get in. She said, 'there was some snow earlier today in the valley but it's fine and nice now, I can see that you have a 4WD with M+S tires so you should be fine.'

We were :mad: and :eek: and :) because:

1. We could have 2 whole day there if we'd drive in regardless of chain control;
2. Why on earth do they state on Yosemite's site saying that chain must be carried at all time and if you don't you risk a $5000 fine?
3. I didn't get to see a Giant Sequoia :(
4. Yosemite is so beautiful - even though we only had 3.5 hours there.

Once again thanks for all the inputs and we'll be back to Sweden tomorrow.

In Europe chains are only used on the Alps - M+S is adequate for most conditions.

I must say people have been remarkably polite in responding to your complaints. I suspect some Americans visiting Sweden might find some of your rules and regulations confusing at times.

What are my options with a rental car when the signs says "Possession of chains required"? I see people have mentioned Walmart, but I can't find anything online about pricing or anything. I've lived down south too long to want to mess with actually driving in snow, but I want to make sure I'm legal.

You can buy a set of tire chains, but most car rental companies do not allow you to install chains on their cars. I think your best option is to rent a 4WD equipped with snow tires. Most of the time this is sufficient and will allow you to drive when chains are required on standard 2WD vehicles.

There are a few cases when things get bad and chains are required on all vehicles, but I'm not sure you would want to drive under those conditions unless it was an emergency.

You can buy a set of tire chains, but most car rental companies do not allow you to install chains on their cars. I think your best option is to rent a 4WD equipped with snow tires. Most of the time this is sufficient and will allow you to drive when chains are required on standard 2WD vehicles.

There are a few cases when things get bad and chains are required on all vehicles, but I'm not sure you would want to drive under those conditions unless it was an emergency.

Just beware that technically, even 4wd with snow tires (and most "all season" tires that you'll find on a rental car will have the M+S indication, and thus count; they don't have to be dedicated snow tires) are required to carry chains, though the likelihood of having to use them is low to none. I've never seen them actually insist on seeing them, but they might ask at a chain control checkpoint. However, in most cases the worst that'll happen is you'll be turned back.

Even with 4wd, people still do less than ideal things and get in trouble (not really chain control related):
http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/article/20121207/NEWS/121209916

What are my options with a rental car when the signs says "Possession of chains required"? I see people have mentioned Walmart, but I can't find anything online about pricing or anything. I've lived down south too long to want to mess with actually driving in snow, but I want to make sure I'm legal.


Getting chains...you can get them from auto rapir locations, Walmart (with an auto service part), Sears (auto service dept), Pep Boys, Other auto parts stores.


This isnt just for California.

This also applies to Washington and Oregon where its a rather short distance from Seattle and Portland to being above 300 feet and needing chains.

Some have two sets of tires...snow tires and regular tires. The studded snow tires are generally only allowed from 11/1-4/1. If it has snowed in the passes they are allowed.


The possesion of chains required only applies if you are driving at higher elevations. This means you are driving over mountain passes...not routine driving.

In Seattle its US 2 (Stevens Pass), I-90 (Snoqualmie pass), US 12 (white Pass) ...the other mountain passes over the cascades are closed for the winter. When its raining on seattle its likely snowing in the mountains. They will periodically close the passes. These passes are regularly plowed. If plowed and you have non accumilating snowfall then you dont need chains on the tires. It is needed when you have heavy snow cover or its very icy.

Thanks for all the information. I am heading out that way next month and had wanted to do some hiking. Unfortunately when I was there last month, the "possession of chains required" signs were up in the San Bernardino NF (although there was no snow) and I wanted to try to open up as many options for hiking and photography as I can.

I definitely don't want to spend the money on a 4WD that I won't need most of the time (probably any of the time) and doesn't meet the legal requirements anyway.

Looks like I'll stick to Joshua Tree - where I've never seen a chain requirement, hopefully that's typical.