TalkBoard Topics - Comments Welcome-Voting Underway: Create an Airlines of Russia and the CIS Forum

Moved by SkiAdcock and seconded by goalie:

"Talkboard recommends the creation of an Airlines of Russia and the CIS forum.

Forum Description: Aeroflot, Aerosvit, S7, Transaero and other airlines based in Russia, the Baltic states, Georgia, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and the CIS."

This vote will close on April 4, 2012, at 1:02pm or after all TalkBoard members have registered their vote, whichever comes first.

Per the TalkBoard Guidelines:

A motion shall pass if at least two-thirds of the yes or no votes cast by TalkBoard members are ‘yes’ and a majority of the total TalkBoard membership votes 'yes.'

The purpose of posting voting topics in the public TalkBoard Topics forum is to solicit member feedback on any motions that are up for a vote and to allow for comments after a vote is made. It is at the sole discretion of the individual TalkBoard members whether they choose to post in the public discussion thread, there being no requirement to do so.

So while there is already a thread and discussion on this general topic and it is safe to assume that TalkBoard members have reviewed that thread, this thread is about this specific motion.

Please feel free to post questions, comments or any other sort of feedback in this thread, or in the other discussion thread.

A good way IMHO to groups these airlines together. ^

I would say Yes to creation new Airlines of Russian forum. Go ahead to discussed about Airlines of Russian. Are we will have different forum or not?

Speaking strictly as a member, I agree.

A good way IMHO to groups these airlines together. ^

Very welcome^

Thx@:-)

This gets a yes from me :)

This gets a yes from me :)

I agree. I would loved to see new Airlines of Russian forum.

Absolutely, yes! ^^

Please remember to include Air Astana and Azerbaijan Airlines (AZAL) - both now quite significant!

Absolutely, yes! ^^

Please remember to include Air Astana and Azerbaijan Airlines (AZAL) - both now quite significant!

They are^ Incl in the CIS.

Why not....

Yes, please.

There's quite a lot of consolidation going on in the Russian aviation industry at the moment, but also some new players. The new forum would be a good way of keeping abreast of the situation.

If the CIS carriers want to tag along, they'd be welcome.

yes good idea

Long overdue...

I've voted in favor for it. Long overdue and a no-brainer IMO.

I've voted in favor for it. Long overdue and a no-brainer IMO.

I agree. I would love to see it. Looking forward to it. They won't be any problem at all.

I support this motion

I support this motion

Me, too. +1.

The Baltic States should be removed.They are not in Russia or CIS while Turkmenistan and Ukraine are in CIS.Keep those Baltic companies(AirBaltic,Estonian Air) in Other European Frequent Flyer Programs sub-forum.

The Baltic States should be removed.They are not in Russia or CIS while Turkmenistan and Ukraine are in CIS.Keep those Baltic companies(AirBaltic,Estonian Air) in Other European Frequent Flyer Programs sub-forum.

Turkmenistan and Ukraine have not ratified the CIS charter. Thats why they are specifically mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States

For the Baltic its pretty much flip a coin. But I think the (transiberian) train has left. The issue has been raised for a few months.

I would say that in general carriers are better served in a specific forum than a generic. The Baltic has large Russian minorities, and more russian speaking. Its a safe bet that many travellers from this region is well into the Russia proper market and vice versa.

The Baltic has large Russian minorities, and more russian speaking. Its a safe bet that many travellers from this region is well into the Russia proper market and vice versa.

I wouldn't bet my money on that. As I pointed out in the earlier thread, the Baltic countries, despite the Russian minorities, are economically integrated to Western Europe, and also in terms of air travel connections to Russia are far less important. Thus, Russia & CIS would be a rather odd reference group to FF programmes of Baltic States based airlines.

I wouldn't bet my money on that. As I pointed out in the earlier thread, the Baltic countries, despite the Russian minorities, are economically integrated to Western Europe, and also in terms of air travel connections to Russia are far less important. Thus, Russia & CIS would be a rather odd reference group to FF programmes of Baltic States based airlines.

As we set any nationalstic, poltical opinions aside- and stay FT oriented and pragmatic- its pretty clear where questions are most likely to be answered; in a forum which includes the country names. Contrary to a huge diversified forum.

Yes - great move

Minorities in Estonia and Latvia are only Russian speaking, they do not follow a Western forums, only a Russian ones and generally do not speaking English either.Estonians are flying from Helsinki,Riga and Tallinn(non Aeroflot destination), Latvians fly from Riga only. My vote goes to country based forum.

My vote goes to country based forum.

Unfortunately too low demand to be viable.

Unfortunately too low demand to be viable.

I don't think its happening. They will not able to create a new forum.

Interesting thought - definately understand S7 and SU, amongst other Russian carriers...those carriers not formally in the CIS may not need to be bundled into this forum... such as OV, BT, PS, etc... as a thought.

Sounds like a good idea to me. No need to add the Baltic states, as Estonian Air is not that big, and airBaltic has much more presense in Western Europe than in the east.

In accordance with the recently changed guidelines that means we'll announce if a motion has passed or failed once enough yes or no votes have been recorded by TB members, this is the public notice that this motion will pass as it has secured 6 yes votes.

Please note that not all TB members have voted yet, and so a final announcement with who voted yes/no will not be posted until all 9 have voted or the voting period ends.

In accordance with the recently changed guidelines that means we'll announce if a motion has passed or failed once enough yes or no votes have been recorded by TB members, this is the public notice that this motion will pass as it has secured 6 yes votes.

Please note that not all TB members have voted yet, and so a final announcement with who voted yes/no will not be posted until all 9 have voted or the voting period ends.

@:-)

^^^^ To all contributors, to whole of TB, especially to those already voted, and even more so to Sharon^

@:-)

^^^^ To all contributors, to whole of TB, especially to those already voted, and even more so to Sharon^

Yes, kudos to Sharon for herding this cat to the pen when I had all but given up hope on it! ^

And yes, I voted for the new forum. :)

Good idea, group all Russian airlines together

My 2 cents

Baltic states/airlines - no, no. The Baltics' frame of reference is westwards, also a LOT of inbound from Scandinavia, etc who wouldn't even think of looking for OU or BT under anything headlined "Russia"

All other 12 republics - yes, bundle together in one forum

Absolutely yes! I think the information on Aerosvit especially is lacking on this forum. Considering that the airline is supposed to grow significantly in the next couple of years, I think this would be a great addition to the forums.

As we set any nationalstic, poltical opinions aside- and stay FT oriented and pragmatic- its pretty clear where questions are most likely to be answered; in a forum which includes the country names. Contrary to a huge diversified forum.

I was referring to the economic reference group, which is relevant to air travel related discussion. If we included political arguments, I'd say inclusion of Baltics under Russia&CIS is an inflammatory move. But as you say, this is not a political forum; the economic argument should be sufficient.


Baltic states/airlines - no, no. The Baltics' frame of reference is westwards, also a LOT of inbound from Scandinavia, etc who wouldn't even think of looking for OU or BT under anything headlined "Russia"


Exactly, which is probably why so few people have opposed the Baltic States inclusion in this new forum: they do not realise this proposal concerns them (since Baltics are nowhere in the thread titles), and the protests will only come after they are faced with the fait accompli.

This may look different to somebody not that familiar with the region, but most people having any contact with the Baltic States would find it extremely strange to find them grouped together with Russia&CIS. The "Other European FFPs" forum is a much more logical home.

I support this forum, but I'm opposed to including the Baltic states in it for the reasons given my several people in this thread (as well as having traveled through them and knowing people with family there). However, I have voted in favor of the motion as the core idea has merit.

I'd like to give it a little bit of time for the dust to settle, but I may well then propose an amendment to the forum description to remove the reference to the Baltic states.

I'd like to give it a little bit of time for the dust to settle, but I may well then propose an amendment to the forum description to remove the reference to the Baltic states.

Thats the way to do it.

I would vote yes to this but how do we vote? It is not clear at all how we vote or support this.

I would vote yes to this but how do we vote? It is not clear at all how we vote....
Did you read the forum sticky on how Talkboard Members vote on motions (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11201712-post3.html)?

How is it not clear? You and I, as general membership, simply can't vote. Only 9 Talkboard Members can vote on TB motions.

SECTION 3: BOARD ORGANIZATION

A. TalkBoard Members

i. The TalkBoard will consist of 9 voting members, chosen by popular election. <snip>

SECTION 4: GENERAL OPERATION, VOTING AND PUBLIC NOTICE PROCEDURES
...
C. Voting Procedures

i. Once a motion has been made and seconded the President shall post a sticky poll thread in the TalkBoard forum calling the question and announcing the vote. The thread shall be titled "Vote: [summary of motion]". In the first post on the sticky poll thread the President shall post the maker and seconder of the motion as well as the voting deadline and then restate the motion that has been made and seconded.
ii. TalkBoard members may register their selection of yes, no or present but abstain while the voting period is open.
<snip>
v. Once a TalkBoard member registers a selection that selection is final.
vi. Regular motions shall be kept open for a period of two weeks from the posting of the sticky poll unless

a. under extenuating circumstances, the President may call for a shorter voting period although in no circumstance shall a vote be open for less than five days.
b. all TalkBoard members have registered their selections.

vii. A motion shall pass if at least two-thirds of the yes or no votes cast by TalkBoard members are ‘yes’ and a majority of the total TalkBoard membership votes 'yes.'
viii. ...

Pick up the pace and read this forum sticky (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/918161-what-talkboard-how-new-forums-other-suggestions-considered.html) so you know how to participate in TB Topics Forum more effectively:

What is the TalkBoard and How are New Forums and Other Suggestions Considered? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/918161-what-talkboard-how-new-forums-other-suggestions-considered.html)

I raise some practical points about the Baltic debate.

OV is a member of SAS Eurobonus, so some discussions need to be there. BT has its own FF programme, but also has some co-op with SK.

Both airlines do small-scale hub building, that includes more frequencies to Russia, Ukraine. In this context, some questions could be appropriate in Russian sub-forum, like concerning code-shares with SU, FV, UN, VV.

But there is little logic, when questions are about TLL or RIX hub, eg flight AMS-TLL-ARN, connection times, wifi, whatever. The expertize is most likely in the Scandinavian forum.

I support this forum, but I'm opposed to including the Baltic states in it for the reasons given my several people in this thread (as well as having traveled through them and knowing people with family there). However, I have voted in favor of the motion as the core idea has merit.

I'd like to give it a little bit of time for the dust to settle, but I may well then propose an amendment to the forum description to remove the reference to the Baltic states.

I had some ambivalence about this too. But I think it will be ok. I guess we'll see how it shakes out.

One very good reason IMHO to exclude the Baltic states from the new forum is that they are EU member states, and therefore their airlines operate within EU regulations and are free to operate anywhere within EU (+EEA). Air Baltic actually announced that they were going to build a hub in Oulu, Finland. They cancelled the plan but something like that is still possible if and when the economy improves. It would be quite odd to separate Baltic states from the rest of the EU.

definitely makes sense

It's a yes for me!

Heck yes!

I really support this. As someone who flies to the former Soviet Union multiple times a year and sometimes travel internally, on a variety of airlines often to smaller towns. This is a great idea. I suspect Aeroflot (SU) will dominate, but it would be great to keep it open to other airlines as s7/transaero/aerosvit/UTAir and couple others are pretty big airlines and the info on FT is often scattered.

Also I think there is a really strong geographic correlation with these airlines in a way that is not true for all of Europe for example. That is to say in some ways the Former Soviet Union is still a single country, e.g. Moscow is the only major airline hub in the region. It's logical to group them all together.

EDIT: After reading through the discussion I agree the Baltics might not want to be included, but really that could go either way and it's a minor issue. I hope it doesn't prevent the formation of such a forum, even if later on the Baltics should be removed.

I vote Yes:cool:

I vote Yes:cool:

Welcome to FT, but you don't vote - it is only for the member-elected Talkboard to vote.

The Baltic has large Russian minorities, and more russian speaking. Its a safe bet that many travellers from this region is well into the Russia proper market and vice versa.
Baltic states (Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania) are NOT part of CIS and do NOT belong in supposed new forum. These countries are part of European Union - economically, politically etc. Language minorities are not and should not be part of decision (for example airlines operating in US are not moved into some hispanic forum just because there are large hispanic minorities in many states of USA).

That said, I support creation of new forum "Airlines of Russia and the CIS", excluding Baltic countries of course.

I Support this

That said, I support creation of new forum "Airlines of Russia and the CIS", excluding Baltic countries of course.

+1

Baltic states (Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania) are NOT part of CIS and do NOT belong in supposed new forum. These countries are part of European Union - economically, politically etc. Language minorities are not and should not be part of decision (for example airlines operating in US are not moved into some hispanic forum just because there are large hispanic minorities in many states of USA).

That said, I support creation of new forum "Airlines of Russia and the CIS", excluding Baltic countries of course.

Noone has claimed the Baltic states are part of CIS, and thats why they are specifically mentioned.

And as there is no airlines of the EU forum, thats not an alternative. Thus your US language analogy makes no sense.

The whole point is to group Baltic airlines into a forum where questions are likely to be answered best, where most relevant volume will be.

As a frequent flyer on Aeroflot, I would love to see this.

I vote yes.

I vote yes.

Sorry, no general FT member can vote on TB motions:
Welcome to FT, but you don't vote - it is only for the member-elected Talkboard to vote.

And for those who may have missed reading post#28 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18281835-post28.html), which is more than a week old:

this is the public notice that this motion will pass as it has secured 6 yes votes.

Please note that not all TB members have voted yet, and so a final announcement with who voted yes/no will not be posted until all 9 have voted or the voting period ends.

The whole point is to group Baltic airlines into a forum where questions are likely to be answered best, where most relevant volume will be.

And that forum would be where rest of the EU and EEA member state's airlines are. There's simply nothing that ties them to Russia or other CIS member states. Quite contrary, one even needs a visa to travel between Baltic states and CIS. CIS states don't require visa from each other's citizens and Baltics are obviously Schengen members. From travelling point of view the division of the Europe is pretty much there.

And as I already stated, the Baltic airlines follow the EU rules, and have the same rights to operate within the EEA as other EEA carriers. Because of the EU, EEA and Schengen, the connection between Baltic states and Poland, Finland, or even Portugal is stronger than with Russia or Belarus.

I say yes to both

Yes, but only if Air Krapistan is added.

I vote to create another forum for Ex-Soviet Union airlines.

I also want to have lunch w/Joanna Lumley. ;)

And that forum would be where rest of the EU and EEA member state's airlines are. There's simply nothing that ties them to Russia or other CIS member states. Quite contrary, one even needs a visa to travel between Baltic states and CIS. CIS states don't require visa from each other's citizens and Baltics are obviously Schengen members. From travelling point of view the division of the Europe is pretty much there.

And as I already stated, the Baltic airlines follow the EU rules, and have the same rights to operate within the EEA as other EEA carriers. Because of the EU, EEA and Schengen, the connection between Baltic states and Poland, Finland, or even Portugal is stronger than with Russia or Belarus.

As stated there is no Airlines of the EU forum. Also SU and others follow EU rules when flying in/out of EU.

As I have said earlier, I have no personal desire whether Baltic carriers should be in this forum or not. But with the current options I feel confident it will get more traction in this forum where Baltics are included in description than in Other European carriers forum.

I still believe volume in a specified forum, both in quality and quantity, will be greater than in a less structured and wider forum.

As stated there is no Airlines of the EU forum
Good idea to create such "Airlines of the EU" forum for several reasons.

But with the current options I feel confident it will get more traction in this forum where Baltics are included in description than in Other European carriers forum. Including Baltics in description of this CIS forum can be used as a tool to force moving discussions related to Baltics to this forum. Unfortunately, besides economical and political reasons already mentioned, there are very strong psychological reasons based in much too bitter quite recent history why this IMHO would not be the right thing to do.

I still believe volume in a specified forum, both in quality and quantity, will be greater than in a less structured and wider forum.
Theoretically, maybe... However for me (living here in Baltics) it seems quite differently in real life.

Create EU forum, this could work much better.

As stated there is no Airlines of the EU forum. Also SU and others follow EU rules when flying in/out of EU.

As I have said earlier, I have no personal desire whether Baltic carriers should be in this forum or not. But with the current options I feel confident it will get more traction in this forum where Baltics are included in description than in Other European carriers forum.

I still believe volume in a specified forum, both in quality and quantity, will be greater than in a less structured and wider forum.

After the creation of the Russia/CIS forum, the Other European carriers forum consists of countries that are either EU members, EEA members (practically EU members regarding air travel) or have applied EU membership. Russia and other CIS members do not belong to any of those groups.

It is probably true that there are people that still associate Baltic states with Russia, even though the Soviet occupation ended over two decades ago, but it is not a reason to feed their ignorance. And for those that are not stuck into Cold War era it is just counter-intuitive to look for discussion about Baltic states in Russia/CIS forum, especially when they are not mentioned in the forum title. If I was looking for a proper forum for discussion about Baltic airlines, it probably wouldn't even cross my mind to read the description of the Russia/CIS forum.

We don't even have to care about the emotional issues with this, because the Baltic states have been very successful in taking a healthy distance from ex-Soviet Union and Russia. But apparently they still have some work to do in educating the rest of the world about it.

On April 3, 2012, Talkboard passed 8-1:

"Talkboard recommends the creation of an Airlines of Russia and the CIS forum."

Voting Yes: bhatnasx, Cholula, goalie, jackal, kokonutz, nsx, RichMSN, SkiAdcock
Voting No: Spiff

Note: The Community Director has named the forum "Russia and CIS based airlines" to match other forum nomenclature.

Good idea to create such "Airlines of the EU" forum for several reasons. <snip>

Create EU forum, this could work much better.

After the creation of the Russia/CIS forum, the Other European carriers forum consists of countries that are either EU members, EEA members (practically EU members regarding air travel) or have applied EU membership. Russia and other CIS members do not belong to any of those groups.

<snip>...it is just counter-intuitive to look for discussion about Baltic states in Russia/CIS forum, especially when they are not mentioned in the forum title.
(underline mine)

It's never a good idea to cover different proposals in one single thread regarding creating new fora. At least from my understanding, that's not the way how our TB works.

I don't know enough about the history and development of Baltic states. Since this now passed motion is about airlines of Russia and the CIS, perhaps for those who feel strongly that Baltic states belong to a different or new forum should consider starting a new thread so some good arguments can be considered by TBers if a different or new (sub)forum is deemed fit?

On April 3, 2012, Talkboard passed 8-1:
Note: The Community Director has named the forum "Russia and CIS based airlines" to match other forum nomenclature.

Hmmm... I see that there has been a silent (?) policy-change. Question mark, as I have not always been following the talk board topics very closely...

I recall it used to be the practice that Flyertalk Miles&Points fora are categorised by FF programmes. With the region-x-based airlines boards, this logic is somewhat clouded.

So, a practical question: to which forum does Estonian Air related discussion now belong?

Hmmm... I see that there has been a silent (?) policy-change. Question mark, as I have not always been following the talk board topics very closely...

I recall it used to be the practice that Flyertalk Miles&Points fora are categorised by FF programmes. With the region-x-based airlines boards, this logic is somewhat clouded.

In cases where a forum is regarding an individual airline, the forum is categorized by the airline name/FF program. In the case where multiple airlines would fall under a category (such as Hawaii-based or India-based airlines), then it has a region-type name.

Cheers.

I'm curious to know why spiff voted against this motion, if he's care to explain his vote. :confused:

I'm curious to know why spiff voted against this motion, if he's care to explain his vote. :confused:

Baltic States don't belong.

Baltic States don't belong.

Well, I guess I have one "yes" vote for my upcoming motion! ;)

Baltic States don't belong.

Thats a fair point raised by others. It would have been possible to consider, and possibly alter the proposal if you had cared to participate pre-voting.

Are you saying you would have supported the motion without this?

In that case its still a ^ as you seem to have been more restrictive than anyone for allowing new forums.

We can always back out the Baltic states from the forum description (which, as a reminder, is the only place they're mentioned) & IMO it shouldn't require a separate proposal to change a description, but is something we can simply ask the Community Director to do, especially since the forum's been up for about 12 hours.

If someone wants to make a case for a separate Baltic States Airlines forum, that would require a proposal/motion & I'd recommend following the guidelines in this post for doing so (and of course doing it in a separate thread).

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11201697-post2.html

Cheers.

We can always back out the Baltic states from the forum description (which, as a reminder, is the only place they're mentioned) & IMO it shouldn't require a separate proposal to change a description, but is something we can simply ask the Community Director to do, especially since the forum's been up for about 12 hours.

If someone wants to make a case for a separate Baltic States Airlines forum, that would require a proposal/motion & I'd recommend following the guidelines in this post for doing so (and of course doing it in a separate thread).

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11201697-post2.html

Cheers.

Thats absolutely one way to do it. However I have no personal beef in it, but I still think its best fit as it is now. And rather than remove it, it might be added in forum title, like Russia, the CIS and the Baltic.

My main point all along has been to establish a place for SU ++++, so Im happy with whatever minor twists now.

But I think its smart not to mix politics into this. Should Kosovo and Serbia object being in the same forum etc. Should Algerian carriers object being put in Africa?

I think these things are better judged from outside, from objective unpartial minds, being pragmatic and oriented towards miles & points.

I reiewed the 3 Baltic capitals, and I see roughly as many carriers and destinations in the Russia and CIS (excluding cargo flights, seasonal charters, and possibly typical LCCs like Ryanair and even maybe Wizzair and Easyjet).

My main point all along has been to establish a place for SU ++++
By saying this you already open nasty political can of worms and this cannot be good for Flyertalk. I wouldn't slip to these aspects but please don't forget that "SU" you mentioned was totalitarian conglomerate with many unlawfully occupied territories forcefully included.

I would suggest simply to remove part of European Union - Baltic countries from description of this new forum. It's also IMHO absolutely unacceptable to write Baltic countries in the name of such forum, that would be really and seriously insulting.

We all participate in Flyertalk because we like to travel etc. Please don't put unnecessary political and emotional tensions here. There are enough other discussion and/or fighting places for these things.

By saying this you already open nasty political can of worms and this cannot be good for Flyertalk. I wouldn't slip to these aspects but please don't forget that "SU" you mentioned was totalitarian conglomerate with many unlawfully occupied territories forcefully included.

I would suggest simply to remove part of European Union - Baltic countries from description of this new forum. It's also IMHO absolutely unacceptable to write Baltic countries in the name of such forum, that would be really and seriously insulting.

We all participate in Flyertalk because we like to travel etc. Please don't put unnecessary political and emotional tensions here. There are enough other discussion and/or fighting places for these things.

Pls give it a break. Is there something wrong with having discussion on south and north Korea in the same forum, even if they are technically at war?

Its only the nationalistic ideas of some, that create your idea of tension.

And btw, after reading 20000 pages of Russian history, I support and understand your political idea very well. But I dont mix it up with everyday life, and create whatever unnecessary illusional unneeded tension.

Just my 2 cents. But I will never let one sided views control my life and views.

Just as an fyi - Baltic States has been removed from the forum description & no Baltic States threads were actually moved to the new forum before the edit to the description.

Cheers.

We can always back out the Baltic states from the forum description (which, as a reminder, is the only place they're mentioned) & IMO it shouldn't require a separate proposal to change a description, but is something we can simply ask the Community Director to do, especially since the forum's been up for about 12 hours.


I can see the Baltics were already removed from the description and that was a good decision. But is there some reason it is in a middle of the airline programs section and not in the end where other forums not specific to one FFP are?

... is there some reason it is in a middle of the airline programs section and not in the end where other forums not specific to one FFP are?

See what our Community Director said in another thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/technical-issues/1332624-airlines-india-forum-where-did-go.html):

... to be consistent with Russia based airlines and Hawaii based airlines. It has been put in alphabetical order based on its new name.
(underline mine)

Just as an fyi - Baltic States has been removed from the forum description & no Baltic States threads were actually moved to the new forum before the edit to the description.

Cheers.

Thank you very much!

Going back to more interesting and (mostly) joyful travel-related topics! :)

Going back to more interesting and (mostly) joyful travel-related topics! :)

^

Hopefully the other CIS states +, equally opressed by Russia, dont use this as a precedent. Like the few shouting loudest always get their right.

^

Hopefully the other CIS states +, equally opressed by Russia, dont use this as a precedent. Like the few shouting loudest always get their right.

And hopefully FTers will use the new forum & move on to travel topics ;) We have another new forum we're considering if people would like to post in that thread :)

Cheers.

Baltic States don't belong.

It's too bad you didn't raise this prior to now. It may have changed how the proposal was made or brought about an amendment.

It's too bad you didn't raise this prior to now. It may have changed how the proposal was made or brought about an amendment.

Maybe; maybe not (although I'm 100% in agreement w/ you that if that's the reason he voted no, it would have been good TB member behavior to bring it up when the motion was being considered).

As I posted in the private forum:

"Baltic States was in the forum description which I included when I did the motion. But in my mind it was the overall creation of the forum that was up for vote, not the description itself, which I assumed could be edited to be more or less inclusive. Descriptions don't go into place until a forum is voted yes...

...the forum has been open for only 12 hours & threads were in the process of being moved. If we were going to make the change, that was/is the time to do it."

The Community Director made the call to pull Baltic States out of the forum description based on feedback both private & public & before threads were moved, and I respect the decision.

Now - for those who were supportive of the overall forum itself, go forward & post. Your forum awaits you :)

Cheers.

Just as an fyi - Baltic States has been removed from the forum description & no Baltic States threads were actually moved to the new forum before the edit to the description.

Cheers.

^