KLM Flying Dutchman - Middle Seat Madness

On shorthaul fllights I like to sit as far forward as possible, mainly because I often have a tight train connection, so every minute counts.

I don't get up in the middle of the night to OLCI, but do so at the earliest reasonable opportunity, which usually gives me plenty of choice and a low sequence number. I then try to pick an aisle seat in the first Y row, if possible on the side where the window seat has already been allocated, on the assumption that it is less likely that another pax will pick a middle seat between two occupied ones than that a couple will select a window and middle pair next to me.

I was recently on a flight that was far from full, yet the B seat next to me in the first row of Y was taken. As far as I could see, it was one of very few occupied middle seats. As soon as the doors closed, an FA came and offered me the completely empty emergency exit row. Having a train to catch, I declined. A few minutes later, the purser came and repeated the offer. I once again explained why I did not wish to move. She then extended the same offer to the pax in the A seat, who was a Gold Elite. He didn't want to move either. In desperation, she then asked the (presumably non-status) pax in the middle if he would want to move. Despite her best efforts, he refused as well.

Checking in for my flight yesterday, I picked the C seat in the first Y row. A was the only other occupied seat. When I checked again just before getting to the airport, I found the B seat taken, so I moved myself to the D seat in the next row, where E was still available.

The filght was only 1/3 full, if that, but when I boarded as the last pasenger I could see that there were people crammed in the first four B seats, even though there were many rows towards the back with no passengers at all. An announcement was made that everybody was free to move anywhere after taoke-off.

Do people really voluntarily want to sit in the middle between two occupied seats, are they being pre-allocated middle seats on almost empty flights (I was, in this last instance), or do check-in agents shove them in these seats?

Johan

Do people really voluntarily want to sit in the middle between two occupied seats, are they being pre-allocated middle seats on almost empty flights (I was, in this last instance), or do check-in agents shove them in these seats?


All of the above. And on all airlines, not just KLM.

I flew BA from Gatwick to Amsterdam yesterday morning. There were 4 of us in the business cabin, with 24 available seats, so we each had 3 rows to ourselves! Granted the middle seat is kept free, but I like to have the entire row free, especially when there is so much free space. But someone had chosen* to sit in my row despite the acres of free space available.

*chosen, automatically assigned, or placed there by check-in agent

On shorthaul fllights I like to sit as far forward as possible, mainly because I often have a tight train connection, so every minute counts.

I don't get up in the middle of the night to OLCI, but do so at the earliest reasonable opportunity, which usually gives me plenty of choice and a low sequence number. I then try to pick an aisle seat in the first Y row, if possible on the side where the window seat has already been allocated, on the assumption that it is less likely that another pax will pick a middle seat between two occupied ones than that a couple will select a window and middle pair next to me.

I was recently on a flight that was far from full, yet the B seat next to me in the first row of Y was taken. As far as I could see, it was one of very few occupied middle seats. As soon as the doors closed, an FA came and offered me the completely empty emergency exit row. Having a train to catch, I declined. A few minutes later, the purser came and repeated the offer. I once again explained why I did not wish to move. She then extended the same offer to the pax in the A seat, who was a Gold Elite. He didn't want to move either. In desperation, she then asked the (presumably non-status) pax in the middle if he would want to move. Despite her best efforts, he refused as well.

Checking in for my flight yesterday, I picked the C seat in the first Y row. A was the only other occupied seat. When I checked again just before getting to the airport, I found the B seat taken, so I moved myself to the D seat in the next row, where E was still available.

The filght was only 1/3 full, if that, but when I boarded as the last pasenger I could see that there were people crammed in the first four B seats, even though there were many rows towards the back with no passengers at all. An announcement was made that everybody was free to move anywhere after taoke-off.

Do people really voluntarily want to sit in the middle between two occupied seats, are they being pre-allocated middle seats on almost empty flights (I was, in this last instance), or do check-in agents shove them in these seats?

Johan

You're not the only person with tight connections - a lot of people would rather take a middle in the front than have a row to themselves in the back. I would have taken the emergency row in a heartbeat, but as you note, a lot of people want to sit as far forward as possible.

You're not the only person with tight connections - a lot of people would rather take a middle in the front than have a row to themselves in the back.No doubt, although there will be more of them on flighta to AMS than to (in my case) CPH.

The B pax yesterday (to AMS) may have had tight connections, but that did not stop them from moving after take-off, nor did I see anybody hurry off upon arrival.

It just occurred to me that there may be extra legroom in the first few rows of Y (depending on the divider position), but I'd rather have a vacant seat next to me anyday. We are not talking about that many inches, and how many pax know about this in the first place?

Johan

Easy solution: Say "yes, ok. But..." and then explain to the FA and other occupants of the row that on descent you'll come back up to the front so you can make a speedy exit.

Easy solution: Say "yes, ok. But..." and then explain to the FA and other occupants of the row that on descent you'll come back up to the front so you can make a speedy exit.

Sounds like a good solution, but isn't there a risk that another pax may decide they fancy your forward seat and occupy it for landing before you :confused:

on descent you'll come back up to the front so you can make a speedy exit.Occasionally, when the flight is delayed, they will let me sit on row one on descent, thus ensuring that I'm the first off. When the jetway broke one time, they allowed me to jump, while all other pax had to wait for somebody to show up with a couple of planks to bridge the gap.

Johan

I have noticed in the past half year or so, that many times at OLCI the middle seat next to me looked occupied, and I always moved away from it during OLCI...to find the middle seat of the seat I had moved to occupied during boarding.

Nowadays, I prefer to stay where I am, as far forward as possible. Also when the seat shows occupied during OLCI. And guess what. Since I stoppe doing musical chairs at check in, it turned out that that ocupied seat was actually a blocked seat. In 3/4 cases when the flight is not full, the middle seat that looked occupied at OLCI actually turns out to be free. Perhaps I was just lucky, perhaps they actually do auto-block middle seats nowadays when they can.

Could also be to do with the weight and balance of the aircraft for take off which explains why you can move AFTER takeoff.

It is not uncommon for rows of seats to be blocked out from seat assignement at OLCI if this is the case.

Could also be to do with the weight and balance of the aircraft for take off which explains why you can move AFTER takeoff.

It is not uncommon for rows of seats to be blocked out from seat assignement at OLCI if this is the case.

A plausible explanation. And it seems we can benefit from that if flights are not fully or not nearly fully booked, by actually not playing OLCI musical chairs.

A plausible explanation.But not in this instance, in my opinion.

First of all, it was possible to select any and all of the many vacant seats at OLCI. Indeed, when I checked in as #4, only the A and B seat in the very last row (30, I believe) had been allocated. All other seats from the emergency exit rows rearwards were up for grabs. At the airport two hours before departure, there were still lots and lots of seats to choose between.

Secondly, if it was a weight and balance issue, why were there pax in the first four B seats, but none in the E seats? Indeed, on the right-hand side of the aisle some pax had three seats to themselves. Those in B could easily have been allocated D or F seats in the first seven or eight rows without upsetting the balance.

Unless the aircraft is really small, I don't think pax distribution is much of an issue, unless really major mistakes are made, as in this (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/failure-to-redistribute-passengers-caused-serious-a320-tailstrike-356280/) example. Note that this involved not only every single one of the 77 pax seated forward of the wing, but also their luggage, all of which had been loaded in the foward holds.

Most tail strikes are apparently caused by pilots entering incorrect weight data in the flight management system.

Johan

On shorthaul fllights I like to sit as far forward as possible, mainly because I often have a tight train connection, so every minute counts.

I don't get up in the middle of the night to OLCI, but do so at the earliest reasonable opportunity, which usually gives me plenty of choice and a low sequence number. I then try to pick an aisle seat in the first Y row, if possible on the side where the window seat has already been allocated, on the assumption that it is less likely that another pax will pick a middle seat between two occupied ones than that a couple will select a window and middle pair next to me.

I was recently on a flight that was far from full, yet the B seat next to me in the first row of Y was taken. As far as I could see, it was one of very few occupied middle seats. Johan

I used to have the same stategy, but saw the same pattern of the middle seat being taken. So now I usually take the second Y row aisle seat and do not have to fight for elbow space ;)
Honestly, no idea why that happens

There are plenty people ( i know a few) that don't really care which seat they have on a short haul flight....then i suppose if would be sensible of the airline to at least spread people out a bit.

Most tail strikes are apparently caused by pilots entering incorrect weight data in the flight management system.

Johan

Not sure if it is all about tail strike. I have observed that on a non-full 737 or A320 they try to keep the front less densly seated that the back of the plane, so I fail to see a connection with tail strike there (heavier tail...)
I am not a pilot so I may be wrong, but I think it is more related to reaching takeoff speed at the correct speed (not at a too high speed), and possibly linked to that a lower fuel consumption during takeoff.