KLM Flying Dutchman - KLM cancels flight, then charges flyer 200 euros for missing his connection

:D

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-2116353/TONY-HETHERINGTON-Number-plate-boss-faces-tax-knockout.html - scan down

M. L. writes: I am a university professor and was due to attend seminars in Montreal and Utrecht. I arrived at Cardiff airport for my KLM flight to Schiphol, Amsterdam.

There was then an announcement that the plane could not fly. This meant I missed my connecting KLM flight from Schiphol to Montreal. However, when I applied for a refund, to my astonishment KLM charged me an ‘administration fee’ of 200 euros (about £165).

It is almost impossible to believe. KLM itself cancelled your flight from Cardiff to Schiphol and then penalised you for failing to catch the connecting KLM flight to Canada.

When you protested, the Dutch airline quoted its small print, insisting that ‘passengers are offered a wide variety of fares and each fare has restrictions associated with it’. One of those restrictions allowed KLM to make a deduction from your refund even though it was KLM’s fault you missed the flight.

After I asked KLM to comment it reversed its decision and repaid you the 200 euros, but added that this was ‘a gesture of sympathy’.

You, meanwhile, have switched your custom to BA.

So the Mail on Sunday to the rescue. :D

(I don't think so. I imagine EU regulations would have helped.)

Beyond belief indeed!

The unfortunate fact is that they get away with treating their customers this badly far too often.

Not all passengers are articulate professors who know how to complain and how get the media involved the the matter is not dealt with to their satisfaction. The functionally illiterate and poorly educated who struggle to write a coherent complaint can easily be fobbed off by KL (and other airlines) who send a reply full of difficult words referring to T&Cs that are beyond the comprehesion of many.

Johan

I just wonder if that's the whole story, though.

Normally refunds are pretty much automatic with KLM when a flight is cancelled (I've been through the process in the last few weeks - online form, immediate auto-acknowledgment, money was back on my card within days).

I wonder if the second flight was on a separate ticket? Sounds like he had commitments both in Canada and in the Netherlands, so if his return involved a stop-over of more than 24 hours (for his seminar in Utrecht) the whole trip may well have been booked on two PNRs.

Only speculating, of course... but I think it's quite possible.

Iif his return involved a stop-over of more than 24 hours (for his seminar in Utrecht) the whole trip may well have been booked on two PNRs.Perhaps, but then surely the cancelation of his first flight would not have caused him to miss the AMS-YUL one?

Johan

I just wonder if that's the whole story, though.
I agree. The story does sound very iffy. KL can certainly be mercenary with respect to consumer rights but even they I would not expect to stoop that low.

Bear in mind that this comes from the daily, i.e. a newspaper whose level of accuracy is comparable to what one would expect from Wayne Rooney explaining quantum mechanics.

Perhaps, but then surely the cancelation of his first flight would not have caused him to miss the AMS-YUL one?

Johan

He mentioned Montreal first, then Utrecht - which would suggest a stopover on the return, not on the outbound flight.

Bear in mind that this comes from the daily, i.e. a newspaper whose level of accuracy is comparable to what one would expect from Wayne Rooney explaining quantum mechanics.Yes, there is that to it. ;)

I wonder why KL paid up, though, given their derisory response to those affected by the Icelandic volcano.

:D


So the Mail on Sunday to the rescue. :D

(I don't think so. I imagine EU regulations would have helped.)

Its definitely the Mail on Sunday to the rescue. KLM has been known to turn their backs on EU regulations and will give excuse after excuse and prompt you to sue.. and then just prolong the suit till you give up !!

I've been persuing a delayed flight compensation with them for over 2 years and have basically given up ever getting anything.

I just wonder if that's the whole story, though.

Normally refunds are pretty much automatic with KLM when a flight is cancelled (I've been through the process in the last few weeks - online form, immediate auto-acknowledgment, money was back on my card within days).

I wonder if the second flight was on a separate ticket? Sounds like he had commitments both in Canada and in the Netherlands, so if his return involved a stop-over of more than 24 hours (for his seminar in Utrecht) the whole trip may well have been booked on two PNRs.

Only speculating, of course... but I think it's quite possible.

Agree 100%, most of you here must remember when I was rebooked from Brussels airpport instead of Antwerp, due to a strike in Belgium completelr outside KLM's control, KLM even refunded me the 20 minute taxi drive to the airport.

Good luck to him flying BA from Cardiff!!

I would really expect that he was travelling on two separate tickets. Particularly as there is this talk of attending a seminar in Utrecht as well as in Montreal.

But then doesn't the Montreal convention give you rights with regards to separate tickets?

But then doesn't the Montreal convention give you rights with regards to separate tickets?

First I've heard of it... can you elaborate?

First I've heard of it... can you elaborate?Under the Montreal Convention, airlines are in principle liable for damages caused by delays to transportation (Art 19 of the Convention). Missing an onward connection (whethe on another plane, or a train, boat, etc...) would constitute such a prejudice that the airline may be under a duty to compensate for, subject to the limits on liability within the Convention. So if you had to buy a new ticket as a result of this, you could sue the airline for that cost.

Airlines, however, have a somewhat wider escape clause under the Montreal Convention than they have under Reg 261/2004: they can escape liability if they can establish that they took all measures that they could reasonably be expected to take to avoid the damage or that it was impossible for them to take said measures.

Any story published by those rabid lunatic rags (Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday) should be treated with much suspicion, mainly as they have a history of making stuff up especially when it's to do with anything a plucky innocent Brit being oppressed by those pesky Europeans. Every week they have non-stories like this floating about.

Sounds like the a two ticket itinerary gone wrong to me.

this is why I always fly BA ;) I dont trust AF/KL especially all the times they have screwed up my connections however AF tend to give me pretty impressive compensation but KL never does :confused:

this is why I always fly BA ;) I dont trust AF/KL especially all the times they have screwed up my connections however AF tend to give me pretty impressive compensation but KL never does :confused:

Oh, but BA are even worse, I tell you, even worse (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/howlett/british-airways-customer-failures-part-1-broken-processes/4014)! They clearly cancel tickets additional sectors when you miss the first one, without even telling you, which is worse! Far worse!!!

Oh, but BA are even worse, I tell you, even worse (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/howlett/british-airways-customer-failures-part-1-broken-processes/4014)! They clearly cancel tickets additional sectors when you miss the first one, without even telling you, which is worse! Far worse!!!

Well I have only ever had 1 messed up connection with BA which was Copenhagen to Miami via LHR a while ago apart from that all missed connections have been due to flight delays because of weather, traffic etc

AF and KL are much worse in my opinion they have screwed up my connections a lot more than BA have especially AF who seem to do it for fun now. Whenever I have to fly via CDG now I always know I will end up being told on arrival that they have overbooked me or something and then I am re routed via a skyteam partner somewhere which takes ages.

Sure no airline is great but look up some of the stories about Air France on the internet as well

Though to AF's credit they do compensate well.

KL and LH are very unsympathetic whenever they screw up my connections, offer no compensation and bluntly tell me I will either have to wait ages, be re directed or stay in a dingy airport hotel for the night

KL and LH are very unsympathetic whenever they screw up my connections, offer no compensation and bluntly tell me I will either have to wait ages, be re directed or stay in a dingy airport hotel for the night

Oh, but Lufthansa are far better at handling misconnects (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-flying-dutchman/1327821-missed-lufthansa-connection-peeved-klm.html), I tells ya, FAR better!!!

Oh, but Lufthansa are far better at handling misconnects (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-flying-dutchman/1327821-missed-lufthansa-connection-peeved-klm.html), I tells ya, FAR better!!!

Not in my experience :)

heres how I would rank it

British Airways is the best for NOT screwing up your connections, T5 is probably on par with AMS as the nicest hub to transfer trough and they come second to AF with compensation if they do screw you up

Air France is the BEST for compensation, the worst for screwing up your connections and CDG is the WORST hub to transfer through

KLM is a nice airline ill give them that, AMS is a nice hub to transfer through, but their compensation is rubbish

Lufthansa is not that great IMO, I dont like transferring through FRA, they arent as bad at screwing up your connections as AF are but a close second and they give you barely any info when they do screw you up and they give you no compensation

Not in my experience :)


And that's the core issue.

Everyone's opinion will be coloured by their own experiences.

Personally, I now avoid AF and CDG as much as possible - it just seems that something always goes wrong when I transfer there. But millions of people continue to do so each year.

And that's the core issue.

Everyone's opinion will be coloured by their own experiences.

Personally, I now avoid AF and CDG as much as possible - it just seems that something always goes wrong when I transfer there. But millions of people continue to do so each year.

Brilliant Point :D

Id agree with you on the AF/CDG part as well however 61million people went through CDG last year, 69million at LHR, 56million at FRA and 50million at AMS

And no one is talking about AZ at FCO!
Last summer, I was rebooked on a later CDG-FCO due to a flight cancellation.
At FCO, they did not want me to board my onward flight as I did a "no-show" at CDG!
After talking for 15 min, explaining the flight cancellation, showing my BP's and asking for a supervisor, I was allowed to board with a reassigned seat: a middle seat.

And no one is talking about AZ at FCO!
Last summer, I was rebooked on a later CDG-FCO due to a flight cancellation.
At FCO, they did not want me to board my onward flight as I did a "no-show" at CDG!
After talking for 15 min, explaining the flight cancellation, showing my BP's and asking for a supervisor, I was allowed to board with a reassigned seat: a middle seat.

Which is further proof of irishguy28 that any radical x is better than y is probably fragile/coloured by personal experience, and personal experience itself coloured by factors we do not always understand as well as the individual people (agent, supervisor, etc) dealing with your case.

Personally, I have had - by far - the best experiences with AZ which is one of the only airlines which never seems to ask me to 'go to (Rome) first and they will reroute you there'. In all problem cases, they rerouted me from point of origin on non-partner airlines if they knew that I would miss my connection while in most cases, AF, BA, LH, LX all want me to reach hub first even if it is certain I will arrive there after the last flight to my destination has gone. I have had good luck with (of all airlines!) US airways as well as LA, pretty bad ones with BA and KL, and good and bad ones with AF and LH. As mentioned, my guess is that who you speak to and how rigid their local supervisor is has more to do with how things work out at the end than overall airline guidelines with a few exceptions (e.g. I think HON Circle get better deals on LX or OS and top tiers on US airlines like Diamond on DL etc).

In my experience, AF were OK with hotels and compensation in general. It almost made up for the fact their staff's 5 day strike had me stranded in PAris in the first place! Its been a few years but KL were also good - gave me a room in the Houston Sofitel and a flight home on Business when on a Y ticket. OK it was on NW through Minneapolis but still.....

Again a few years back, but poor experience with BA. Bad enough for me not to have flown on them long haul since mind you.

And no one is talking about AZ at FCO!
Last summer, I was rebooked on a later CDG-FCO due to a flight cancellation.
At FCO, they did not want me to board my onward flight as I did a "no-show" at CDG!
After talking for 15 min, explaining the flight cancellation, showing my BP's and asking for a supervisor, I was allowed to board with a reassigned seat: a middle seat.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately from the stories I have heard) AZ dont have an ABZ-FCO flight. However the worst airline I have ever flown for connections was probably Avianca in Bogota, completely hopeless.

Yes, there is that to it. ;)

I wonder why KL paid up, though, given their derisory response to those affected by the Icelandic volcano.

What was KLM's response to those affected by the Icelandic volcano? I don't remember.....

What was KLM's response to those affected by the Icelandic volcano? I don't remember.....

They haven't yet responded...