Avis - Amex and Avis locked horns over a recent damage claim

I thought this recent experience might be of interest and use to some in this forum.

I'm a President's Club member through Amex Centurion and recently rented a rather car at IAH and received a very generous upgrade to a high spec vehicle. On returning the car the agent noticed some damage near the front nearside wheel. It didn't look too serious to me (although I am clearly not an expert) and looked like someone had scraped along it during a attempt to park. I'm pretty sure it wasn't us but hey-ho, these things happen.

A couple of months went by, I'd forgotten about the whole thing and I received an invoice from Avis for around $670. This was made up of a relatively small amount for the actual repair (less than half the total) and then various administrative charges including an element for the lost rental opportunity (several days) while the vehicle was being repaired. I had not taken Avis's insurance so passed the matter to Amex who settled it directly on my behalf.

When Amex sent me a copy of the settlement information a payment of a lesser amount paid to Avis by Amex. When I questioned this with Amex they simply said that they refused to pay certain administrative charges requested by Avis.

Avis accepted the payment and the matter was closed.

I just thought this might be of interest to anyone else who receives an invoice from Avis that appears to be somewhat padded or overinflated. Just because they claim the amount does not necessarily mean they are due to be paid that amount or even expect to receive it.

Anyone else had a similar experience?

It was my understanding that Avis no longer charged for down time, and depreciation of vehicles. Maybe that's what they removed from the bill.

It was my understanding that Avis no longer charged for down time, and depreciation of vehicles. Maybe that's what they removed from the bill.

I'm curious where you got this from. I'm not doubting you; I've just seen many posts over the years of Avis requesting compensation for depreciation due to lost value (forget their term), money for lost rental ability (even if the fleet wasn't fully utilized), etc, and it would be good to have a source for this if it is true.

My ex-boss told me.

I'll send some emails tomorrow if you'd like a definitive answer.

I'm curious where you got this from. I'm not doubting you; I've just seen many posts over the years of Avis requesting compensation for depreciation due to lost value (forget their term), money for lost rental ability (even if the fleet wasn't fully utilized), etc, and it would be good to have a source for this if it is true.

I believe the term is "loss-of-use". I've always been unclear about whether loss-of-use applies to that single vehicle, or whether the standard for proving loss-of-use is higher, e.g. Avis needs to show that it didn't have any other cars in that size category that it could rent out.

It was my understanding that Avis no longer charged for down time, and depreciation of vehicles. Maybe that's what they removed from the bill.

I have the invoice here with the breakdown. There's no charge for depreciation.

The charges were 15 hours of labour ($330) and no parts. Again, I'm no expert but this was a 4 inch scrape along a wheel arch so the mechanic must have taken his time to spend 15 hours on it. Or do these things really take that long to fix?

Then there's a section titled 'additional cost' which includes items such as paint/materials, hazardous waste disposal and towing/storage which comes to $147.40.

Finally, there's the 'Lou & Admin' section totalling $194 made up of 3 days loss of use and an 'Administrative Fee'. There's no information as to whether the loss of use resulted from there being no cars available for rent. My guess is that this is just a standard charge added to all repairs.

It is the last section that Amex refused to pay.

I'm a President's Club member through Amex Centurion and recently rented a rather car at IAH and received a very generous upgrade to a high spec vehicle.

What type of car was it? I'm heading to IAH in two weeks and trying to figure out what type of car to request (or avoid). :)

What type of car was it? I'm heading to IAH in two weeks and trying to figure out what type of car to request (or avoid). :)

It was a Cadillac CTS Wagon with built-in navigation and bluetooth for the phone. They didn't all have the built-in GPS which was a bonus for us. I liked it.

In the past I had two damage claims with Avis, both were covered by Amex. Both times Amex paid for the repair costs but didn't pay for the other administrative fees, and then Avis closed the claims. I was quite relieved that Avis didn't go after me for the admin fees.

Avis admin fees are pretty high, but apparently also negotiable. I had a flat tire in an Avis rental last year, and returned the car with the spare on. I was charged for a new tire, extortionate labor costs, down time and 2 strange administrative fees (one appeared to be a fee for billing me). They waived the admin fees and the down time when I called to complain.

Avis admin fees are pretty high, but apparently also negotiable. I had a flat tire in an Avis rental last year, and returned the car with the spare on. I was charged for a new tire, extortionate labor costs, down time and 2 strange administrative fees (one appeared to be a fee for billing me). They waived the admin fees and the down time when I called to complain.

Outrageous. I hope that by starting this thread it will encourage others to push back if/when they see these steep charges.

I had a similar experience except the people paying for the damage was not Amex. I had an Avis rental in Honolulu and the Hyatt valet smashed the back of the vehicle pretty bad in the horrible parking garage they have there. They gave me a claim number with the Hyatt, I gave that info to Avis and then a month or so later I get copies of all the communications. The attorney for the Hyatt just countered all the stuff that they didnt want to pay with an amount they did want to pay and Avis said "ok". Admin fees and loss of use were a couple of them.

Thrifty went after me for admin fees (that Amex told me they wouldn't cover) and ended up sending me a threatening letter that my account was being sent to collections. Never ever will I rent from that company...:mad:

Thrifty went after me for admin fees (that Amex told me they wouldn't cover) and ended up sending me a threatening letter that my account was being sent to collections. Never ever will I rent from that company...:mad:

What was the outcome? Did they drop it after the letter?

What was the outcome? Did they drop it after the letter?

No, I just paid for them to stop literally "harassing" me. Never dealt with such unprofessional folks.

Enterprise tried to go after me for Admin fees that AMEX refused to pay and actually sent my account to collections.

I spoke with collections and explained exactly what had transpired and that AMEX said since they were covering the insurance claim, all communications about the claim should go through them.

The collections employee said he would follow up with AMEX and Enterprise and get back with me with a final outcome and any fees that I might owe.

I never did hear from the collections employee again, so to this very day I am guessing that AMEX either paid the fees or Enterprise decided to stop fighting the case.

Dan

The charges were 15 hours of labour ($330) That hourly rate seems shockingly low for a mechanic. You sure it's not 1.5 hours? :p

That hourly rate seems shockingly low for a mechanic. You sure it's not 1.5 hours? :p

Here's an extract. $22 per hour. Does seem low I agree.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20767940/KVStool/Screen%20Shot%202012-03-17%20at%2022.50.42.png

Maybe that is why it took that many hours to fix it :D

Thrifty went after me for admin fees (that Amex told me they wouldn't cover) and ended up sending me a threatening letter that my account was being sent to collections. Never ever will I rent from that company...:mad:

My experience with Thrifty was just bizarre also. A clip-on part was missing from the car, and not noticed till after the return inspection (meaning considerable doubt it happened while I had the car). Thrifty was quite ugly and threatening and demanded an immediate over-the-phone credit card before even documenting their claim. They were repeatedly profane on the phone to Mrs. Jayer. They only dealt with Amex because I refused and sent their documentation (when they finally mailed it) on to Amex (who contacted them).

Amex was the polar opposite and covered everything they asked except for $112 in loss of use. They would have done that had Thrifty produced rental logs proving they incurred such a loss, or documented (as Thrifty insisted was the case) a state statutory liquidated damages fee for the car being unrentable.

I paid $112 to make the horrible Thrifty woman go away. We have never rented from Thrifty/Dollar again, meaning they lose out at what had been 15-20 days a year from them. I am a repeat Amex Premium Car Rental customer (not that most desk people know its primary). Avis Preferred is better anyway.

See my post (#37) in this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/avis/1123747-charge-damage-rant-3.html

Summary:
1) AmExp is the secondary insurer. (With my MasterCharge cards, they are primary!)
2) Personal (or business) auto insurer is primary and must be contacted first.
3) My personal insurance company (Liberty Mutual) took care of the entire matter. Once I reported the event to LM, I was never contacted again until I received the final "paid" bill from AVIS.
4) On my first call to LM, the rep told me that she would request a "vehicle class audit" from AVIS for the "billed downtime" of the vehicle. She explained that, if any other vehicles of the same class were available during the "downtime" ... which she said is always the case ... the "downtime charges" would be removed. (That would likely explain the OP's lower charges on the final bill.)

I did not pay a penny ... including the inane "downtime" charges!!!

Final chapter: I downgraded all three Platinum AmExp accounts to Green (a total of 7 cards for two businesses as well as my and my wife's personal) ... rarely, if ever, use AmExp anymore ... and now use my Platinum-equivalent airline-affinity business and personal MasterCards exclusively.

Thrifty went after me for admin fees (that Amex told me they wouldn't cover) and ended up sending me a threatening letter that my account was being sent to collections. Never ever will I rent from that company...:mad:

We had similar experience with Thrifty - a franchisee location at Jacksonhole. The car suffered numerous shallow dents from hail storm. Mastercard was the CC that provided the insurance. MC refused to pay for the loss of usage despite the rental car location faxed in several times of the logs showing utilization rate. I believe it has to be 85 or 90% utilization before MC would pay. MC kept finding all sorts of excuses to deny it. MC did not cover Admin fee - that is spelled out in the benefit leaflet. This franchisee has an insurance adjuster located in Las Vegas and they threatened to send the $350 (negotiated down from $450+) to collection agency if we did not pay the portion MC denied. We actually agreed on the loss of utilization as we saw every company ran out of cars at Jacksonhole airport when we picked up our reservation. Customers without reservation were out of luck and went without car. So the 2 or 3 days they claimed being loss to repair the body we felt it was valid. The problem seemed to lie with the actual repair, i.e. the car was out of service, happened in December but the damage was sustained in Sept. Hence MC insisted the rental car's paper work was not acceptable. The admin fee was the part we negotiated it down from $150 to $75 or something like that. At the end we went ahead to pay the $350 just to close the case. MC paid $2200+ on the repair as the bill said.

I had a similar experience to the OP in SAN. On the last day of our vacation I come out of our hotel on my way to the gym and see a big dent in the bumper. I paid for the rental with my Amex plat card and pay for the premium car rental insurance since I live in NYC and don't have a car or car insurance. The experience was pretty smooth, after calling Amex and filling out a claim they gave me a claim number and called the Avis location. When I returned the car, the supervisor came over noted the call from Amex, the claim number and wrote the claim number in some sort of erasable pen on the windshield and that was it. I got a final copy of the bill and Amex paid everything except the administrative charges which were nominal (<$100) and the case was closed. The nice part is you can track your claim online and was updated regularly.