Finnair Plus - You can go even lower

Just got home with AY, they now using amenity kits which are not more then a brown paper envelope (put a stamp on it, you can send it anywhere) consisting nothing more then socks, eyeshades and earplugs.

Say also Good Bye to the toothbrush and razor in the restroom. AY truly a premium carrier.

So you have to ask the cabin crew for your thoothbrush / razor..? What can you really say anomore...

So you have to ask the cabin crew for your thoothbrush / razor..? What can you really say anomore...

Next time it will also be "Bring your own boze", since they are also running out of Gin and Vodka after 8 or 9 hours;)

Next time it will also be "Bring your own boze", since they are also running out of Gin and Vodka after 8 or 9 hours;)

Running out of Gin and Vodka in AY long haul J? Must have been BKK route? ;) In any case that's very, very weird indeed..

Running out of Gin and Vodka in AY long haul J? Must have been BKK route? ;) .. How can you guess:D

All of us who know AY a bit deeper as a company are aware how the dedication of the flying and ground crews is contrasted with a bureaucratic and inefficient middle management.

Apart from a few stars in marketing, sales and service management, the company is slow to react to market changes and reluctant to cut costs where it would really matter, manager and director level. Not to even speak of the greedy and short sighted CEO, Mr.Vehvilainen.

I would encourage FTers to report their frustration at AY through social media: Negative reviews at Skytrax, comments in the Finnair Runway blogs and Facebook etc. should give the responsible ladies and gentlemen something to think about.

How low? When I checked in for my JFK-HEL flight, I found out that I'll be seated in angled flat beds instead of the usual flat beds. If AY can't put their best planes on the JFK route, they should just give up JFK.

As looking from ftdashboard Finnair has recently used more non-flat beds on JFK rounte than flatbeds.
http://ftdashboard.net/ay/dest/jfk.htm

If AY can't put their best planes on the JFK route, they should just give up JFK.

Why should AY put their best planes on the long-haul route that they care the least about?

Long gone are the days when JFK was their flagship route. Nowadays I think it's there more or less because of tradition.

Long gone are the days when JFK was their flagship route. Nowadays I think it's there more or less because of tradition.

And Russian tourists..

And Russian tourists..

But do they actually bring in any profit? Or are they there just to fill the SVO/LED/WAW flights?

Literally a brown envelope or just otherwise "so bad that might as well have been. If the former my guess would be that for one reason or other not enough amenity kits were delivered.

Of course it still shouldn't happen, and the crew should have been apologetic, but mistakes and logistics mishaps do happen.

Literally a brown envelope or just otherwise "so bad that might as well have been. If the former my guess would be that for one reason or other not enough amenity kits were delivered.

Of course it still shouldn't happen, and the crew should have been apologetic, but mistakes and logistics mishaps do happen.

Thats also the reason why razors and toothbrushes are gone in the restrooms? We will see. And the brown envelopes are not a bad thing at all, but the sign they are sending is bad to me, as I said the price for my tickets are gone up about 900€ in the last 24 month.

Ok, my next trip to India will be with LH or BA then. I just don't get AY's strategy.

That's also the reason why razors and toothbrushes are gone in the restrooms? We will see. And the brown envelopes are not a bad thing at all, but the sign they are sending is bad to me, as I said the price for my tickets are gone up about 900€ in the last 24 month.
It could be the reason, that's why I am asking. It is up to somebody to deliver this stuff to the AC and if one thing is missing, I have no trouble imagining another could be missing for the same reason. Maybe they were supposed to arrive in the same cart/box/bag/van/truck/whatever that never came.

All I'm asking is did it seem like the thing was a true dedicated amenity kit, that resembled a brown envelope, or was it a standard plain brown envelope with a few items stuffed inside.

I'm not arguing that using a brown envelope as an amenity kit would not send a bad message, but given this is a forum and people are probably interested in whether this affects their flights, it is quite important whether this is a one off mishap or a policy change.

It could be the reason, that's why I am asking. It is up to somebody to deliver this stuff to the AC and if one thing is missing, I have no trouble imagining another could be missing for the same reason. Maybe they were supposed to arrive in the same cart/box/bag/van/truck/whatever that never came.

All I'm asking is did it seem like the thing was a true dedicated amenity kit, that resembled a brown envelope, or was it a standard plain brown envelope with a few items stuffed inside.

I'm not arguing that using a brown envelope as an amenity kit would not send a bad message, but given this is a forum and people are probably interested in whether this affects their flights, it is quite important whether this is a one off mishap or a policy change.

The envelope look pretty profesional, AY branded with an "Eco friendly" message on it, even the ear plugs inside where packed in brown paper and AY branded. Could be a back-up product, but as I understand they ve been also on other flights recently.

I'm not arguing that using a brown envelope as an amenity kit would not send a bad message, but given this is a forum and people are probably interested in whether this affects their flights, it is quite important whether this is a one off mishap or a policy change.

I am flying Monday to Beijing, will report what I find. If it is a brown envelope and there are no razors in the lav, I will be pissed.

Just have a look yourself

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4720/20120306085625991.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/20120306085615222.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/20120306085553931.jpg/

It has booksize

Cheap, cheap, Finnair! They are trying to hide behind the usual eco-jargon when they are clearly just cutting costs. Few years ago you got similar looking "amenity kit" on DL economy class when flying over the Atlantic.

Just got home with AY, they now using amenity kits which are not more then a brown paper envelope (put a stamp on it, you can send it anywhere) consisting nothing more then socks, eyeshades and earplugs.

Say also Good Bye to the toothbrush and razor in the restroom. AY truly a premium carrier.

It's amazing how many travelers bother with amenity kits...Finnair's brown envelopes are a step in the right direction to reduce waste on flights, it's both a cost-saving and environmentally friendly measure.

If anyone needs a toothbrush or a razor because they forgot to bring their own, it clearly says on the envelope that the cabin crew will provide it.

I hope all carriers will slowly get rid of amenity kits.

It's amazing how many travelers bother with amenity kits...Finnair's brown envelopes are a step in the right direction to reduce waste on flights, it's both a cost-saving and environmentally friendly measure.

If anyone needs a toothbrush or a razor because they forgot to bring their own, it clearly says on the envelope that the cabin crew will provide it.

I hope all carriers will slowly get rid of amenity kits.

No problem with that, but AY cut costs on the one hand side and rises the fares on the other side - so best of both worlds for the customer:D

And to be honest if you want to act environment friendly, flying C class is no good idea at all.

But do they actually bring in any profit? Or are they there just to fill the SVO/LED/WAW flights?

Good question, I have seen some supposedly rich Russian groups and/or families in J on JFK route so they might bring a buck or two..

It's amazing how many travelers bother with amenity kits...Finnair's brown envelopes are a step in the right direction to reduce waste on flights, it's both a cost-saving and environmentally friendly measure.

If anyone needs a toothbrush or a razor because they forgot to bring their own, it clearly says on the envelope that the cabin crew will provide it.

I hope all carriers will slowly get rid of amenity kits.
I think nobody has anything against finding more ecological ways of doing this, but I refuse to believe that the only way of doing that is to go cheap. DALtoAAL said, this appears to be more about cutting costs while hiding behind the eco-argument, than actually being motivated by ecological values. If this was for Y it would be a different story.

I'm sure amenity kits that are more ecological than the traditional ones can be created without going all the way to an envelope. E.g. a well made cardboard box can actually be rather stylish, or go with recycled fabric or something.

It's amazing how many travelers bother with amenity kits...Finnair's brown envelopes are a step in the right direction to reduce waste on flights, it's both a cost-saving and environmentally friendly measure.

If anyone needs a toothbrush or a razor because they forgot to bring their own, it clearly says on the envelope that the cabin crew will provide it.

I hope all carriers will slowly get rid of amenity kits.

As they have reduced the contents of the kit, it is clear IMO that cutting costs was first ambition. Adding the eco-touch was just a value add.

For instance no lip or skin moisturiser. I use these products on every flight. Of course you can bring your own, but there is a limited amount of fluids you may take in your handluggage. I bring my own lens fluids, and am pretty much maxed out.

"No one needs the kits" - yeah, sure, no one needs anything. Most people will survive 12 hours without food or drinks, so skipping that would reduce a lot of waste too.

Compare this to JAL's approach to reducing weight (=saving fuel = being eco-friendly and costeffective): Instead of going cheap by serving food on plastic trays and supplying plastic utensils, they started to reduce weigh on every single item. Making silverware hollow and stuff like that. They managed to keep superb quality and style, while reducing weight/fuel/emissions on par with others.

Being cheap isn't eco, being smart is.

Reducing wasted material such as "amenity kits" would not harm me as long as the BA First pajamas are left untouched.

Dead weight on a commercial aircraft include water bottles, newspapers, fish containing foodstuffs., etc. Live weight should include full bottles of 15 y o single malts!

Who would want the ruin the day by shawing using some 1 or 2 blade vein cutter offered by the airline anyway? I use nothing less than latest thin 5 blade Gillette, handy also in the lightest cabin baggage. Do not even consider choosing Wilkinson!

:D

Reducing wasted material such as "amenity kits" would not harm me as long as the BA First pajamas are left untouched.

Dead weight on a commercial aircraft include water bottles, newspapers, fish containing foodstuffs., etc. Live weight should include full bottles of 15 y o single malts!

Who would want the ruin the day by shawing using some 1 or 2 blade vein cutter offered by the airline anyway? I use nothing less than latest thin 5 blade Gillette, handy also in the lightest cabin baggage. Do not even consider choosing Wilkinson!

:D

^ :D :D

All of us who know AY a bit deeper as a company are aware how the dedication of the flying and ground crews is contrasted with a bureaucratic and inefficient middle management.

Apart from a few stars in marketing, sales and service management, the company is slow to react to market changes and reluctant to cut costs where it would really matter, manager and director level. Not to even speak of the greedy and short sighted CEO, Mr.Vehvilainen.

I would encourage FTers to report their frustration at AY through social media: Negative reviews at Skytrax, comments in the Finnair Runway blogs and Facebook etc. should give the responsible ladies and gentlemen something to think about.

Just in news: 18 top managers have received extra bonus of 2,7 million euros in total or 150.000 in average per person for having stayed with the company from 2009 until spring 2011... after which 6 of them immediately quit from Finnair. This decision was made in 2009 and info on it released only now. Talking about savings and clever management.

Amenity kits: would it not be ok to have all the items available from the crew when needed.... At least a couple of years ago JAL distributed amenity kits items on tray for everyone who wanted to have some.... And some years ago AY had all the lotions and perfumes in big bottles in the washrooms along with dental and razor kits. Cannot remember when the lotions etc. dissapeared. For frequent travellers the kit or pouch itself is probably not necessary.

Flew HEL-JFK in J last night. Lavs in J were void of amenities except for the disposable cotton towels. Despite the writing on the wall, JFK ground and cabin crew are in tip top shape and made the flying experience so pleasant. I hope top management realizes this.

All of us who know AY a bit deeper as a company are aware how the dedication of the flying and ground crews is contrasted with a bureaucratic and inefficient middle management.

Apart from a few stars in marketing, sales and service management, the company is slow to react to market changes and reluctant to cut costs where it would really matter, manager and director level. Not to even speak of the greedy and short sighted CEO, Mr.Vehvilainen.

I would encourage FTers to report their frustration at AY through social media: Negative reviews at Skytrax, comments in the Finnair Runway blogs and Facebook etc. should give the responsible ladies and gentlemen something to think about.

You may have a point. I have seen AY service levels going down at AY in the past 5-6 years. I still consider it a great airline though. Yet I am still very frustrated of about how they handled the Icelandic volcano situation in 2010. I got stranded in Hong Kong 6 days and they kept on saying they would not reimburse me the expense of the layover etc. etc. It felt a little bit like JetBlue IROP mess in 2007...

Just in news: 18 top managers have received extra bonus of 2,7 million euros in total or 150.000 in average per person for having stayed with the company from 2009 until spring 2011... after which 6 of them immediately quit from Finnair. This decision was made in 2009 and info on it released only now. Talking about savings and clever management.


Not to comment on the individual people at Finnair who received this bonus (I don't exactly who they all are, and what they do, and frankly I don't care), these types of incentives are fairly common when a company is going through turbulent times, or change of top management or both. It seems to have worked in its intended purpose. And apparently at least some of the people actually had a viable outside option, as they landed good jobs elsewhere when the incentive period ended.

Not to comment on the individual people at Finnair who received this bonus (I don't exactly who they all are, and what they do, and frankly I don't care), these types of incentives are fairly common when a company is going through turbulent times, or change of top management or both. It seems to have worked in its intended purpose. And apparently at least some of the people actually had a viable outside option, as they landed good jobs elsewhere when the incentive period ended.

Yes, this is a very common practise in any business. "Move along, there is nothing to see here." And if the key persons moved to another business only after the deadline that just proves the deal worked.

The amenity kit is almost always a total waste. Who wants one of those cotton zipper bags to stash away at home? The moisturizers? Strange scents or just too greasy. A razor? Why? On a 10-12 h flight (ok, I don't get the strong gray shade in just a few hours)? For the rest of the trip I have my own and if I for some reason forgot it I would get one if I asked. How many eye masks I already have? Too many...

I had a look at the envelope pics. I think they serve the purpose and make a statement. Not cheap but eco thinking. Recycled paper I am sure.

This would not change my route planning... Or it would, I would welcome this on other airlines also. Those faces when I say "No thank you, I don't need the amenity kit." Huh, NO AMENITY KIT?! "No, thank you." :)

I totally agree bonuses are a common practice.... But we can expect more strikes as at the same time when bonuses were decided on, the employees had to agree on a 5% pay cut and they were not told of the bonuses to the managers. In their opinion the money taken from them was directly transfered to their managers payroll.....

I never said that one need a amenity kit, I just found it strange how they changed it.

No one needs real champagne or caviar while flying, but it becomes an issue if it´s not there.

Going eco is a good thing for sure, but if this is important to you, just stop flying. A paper bag don t make your business class trip eco friendly.

...
...

The amenity kit is almost always a total waste. Who wants one of those cotton zipper bags to stash away at home? The moisturizers? Strange scents or just too greasy. A razor? Why? On a 10-12 h flight (ok, I don't get the strong gray shade in just a few hours)? For the rest of the trip I have my own and if I for some reason forgot it I would get one if I asked. How many eye masks I already have? Too many...

I had a look at the envelope pics. I think they serve the purpose and make a statement. Not cheap but eco thinking. Recycled paper I am sure.

This would not change my route planning... Or it would, I would welcome this on other airlines also. Those faces when I say "No thank you, I don't need the amenity kit." Huh, NO AMENITY KIT?! "No, thank you." :)

Well, there is a great choice of low cost airlines that service you this way. You are free to choose any of these to get low level of service. Some flyers do like a higher level of service, and we try to choose airlines that gives us what we like.

And you are free to travel with a quality airline and say 'No thanks' to the amenities. Just because it is a service that you don't like, doesn't automatically make it "a waste". Why is is so important for you to deny others the services they like?

I totally agree bonuses are a common practice.... But we can expect more strikes as at the same time when bonuses were decided on, the employees had to agree on a 5% pay cut and they were not told of the bonuses to the managers. In their opinion the money taken from them was directly transfered to their managers payroll.....
They should have also decided to pay half price for the fuel they used, and given the rest to the employees... wait... oh yeah, you can't do that, you don't get fuel unless you pay the full price.

Just like AY couldn't get the managers to stay without the bonuses, all of them did not even stay with them.

But somene said he is going to change airlines because of this? Really?

I do like my champagne and would find it strange if that was ditched. But I don't get the amenity kit and I don't consider that as "premium". But hey, it is just me. And someone else here too. And the razor, is it premium..? And the creme that might make you itch? (I have had no problems but there are some people with sensitive skin or high standards and are not into random freebies.)

And no, I am not going to choose a low cost airline...

But somene said he is going to change airlines because of this? Really?

I already changed my next flights because of this, not that I need razors, toothbrushes or anything else in the kit. Actually I rarely touch this stuff, but as I mentioned before, I just don t like this attitude. Cutting costs, call it eco, rise the fare.

And compared to the rates TG offering in F at the moment, I rather go with them, getting 300% with M&M, caviar, Ten, a real fasttrack, comfortable lounge in BKK and only 10 people in the cabin. All for less then 400€ more.

Hehe, no the razors are not premium. :D

The thing that bugs me is this:
It is not the value of the actual products that gives me the feel of premium, it is the caring thought behind those products.

Silly example from TK: They pack a shoehorn in the amenity kit. Cheap plastic, but sooo handy for getting swollen feet into shoes. And a "Do not disturb"-sticker and a "please wake me up"-sticker you can attach to your seat so they know what to do if you are sleeping. Small crappy details that carries no actual value, but proves that someone did spend some time figuring out how to make my trip as smooth as possible. There is a caring thought involved. You don't even need to use the stuff to appreciate the thought behind.

Back to AY: If I get an almost empty amenity kit or go to the lav and find nothing but some paper towels, then I feel like they really don't care about my trip. They are just there for the transport. They don't care if anyone happens to need anything like hand lotion, razor, toothbrush, deo and so on. To me the signal is; They (AY) can't be bothered to think ahead. The traveller should forsee all his needs for the trip, and if security confiscates his hand lotion, well then that's just tough luck.
(I am exaggerating here, of course)

The point is - there are many things that from a bean counter view looks like a waste; Products that cost money and produce waste and "no one ever uses them". But they represent more than just product value to (some) travellers.

Hehe, no the razors are not premium. :D

The thing that bugs me is this:
It is not the value of the actual products that gives me the feel of premium, it is the caring thought behind those products.

Silly example from TK: They pack a shoehorn in the amenity kit. Cheap plastic, but sooo handy for getting swollen feet into shoes. And a "Do not disturb"-sticker and a "please wake me up"-sticker you can attach to your seat so they know what to do if you are sleeping. Small crappy details that carries no actual value, but proves that someone did spend some time figuring out how to make my trip as smooth as possible. There is a caring thought involved. You don't even need to use the stuff to appreciate the thought behind.

Back to AY: If I get an almost empty amenity kit or go to the lav and find nothing but some paper towels, then I feel like they really don't care about my trip. They are just there for the transport. They don't care if anyone happens to need anything like hand lotion, razor, toothbrush, deo and so on. To me the signal is; They (AY) can't be bothered to think ahead. The traveller should forsee all his needs for the trip, and if security confiscates his hand lotion, well then that's just tough luck.
(I am exaggerating here, of course)

The point is - there are many things that from a bean counter view looks like a waste; Products that cost money and produce waste and "no one ever uses them". But they represent more than just product value to (some) travellers.

Well said. I really hope AY's management would take the time and effort and test for example CX or SQ in their premium cabins..I fully understand that the competetive landscape is different but I'm sure they could learn at least something..or if they cannot (afford? ;) ) just try out BA, to keep it within OW..I'm really sad to see the trend with AY (for many years already) as I cannot see this spriral stopping..I'm expecting to hear news about first cancellations to new ac orders within this year..followed by further network cuts..

I personally don't mind the "strong grey shade on the men cheek, or even darker..." ;-) when all the other, what ever you would like to express with your outlook and behavior, are in line with YOU (I wish you don't feel harrasshed ;-) )

Anyway, what is luxury/requirement for one, may not be for the others. Always when one is taken off benefits; friday cake that we have had for 20y..., or newspaper that we have ALWAYS had... one may feels dissapointed. Still, when following e.g. JAL discussion, JAL has e.g. found clever ways to not compromice with quality and have made e.g. hollow cutlery to reduce the weight, clever...

Without knowing the whole story (and being travelling this year supprincingly (ad hoc much) I still feel unfear when staff is informed 2009 that "the hole company is going to be in backrupsy in case satff dont accept salary degrees, at the same time, even being "common practice" in many companies, some if the staff is given extra bonuses just for staying as employees.

The way Finnair has NOT COMMUNICATED the extra bonuses is against the finnish bond law (i dont know what is the official name with financial terms...),anyway the bonus was written in the financial statement but not communicated according the financial regulations to the public. Because of this Finnair should (and will be given) a warning of not communication officially these actions (says my sister communication manager for investors etc...)

...and as you may have read more... Vehviläinen is now accused of taking bribe... At the same time as one of the insurence companies was buying Vehviläisen's appartment (the he had not being able to sell for a long time...) the incurence company Ilmarinen was granted to build Finnairs new office building. The finnirs police took them self an action to investigate this matter...

(sorry if having miss-spellingsss... I just came from Sao Paolo and have not slept in 46 hours...)

I personally don't mind the "strong grey shade on the men cheek, or even darker..." ;-) when all the other, what ever you would like to express with your outlook and behavior, are in line with YOU (I wish you don't feel harrasshed ;-) )

Anyway, what is luxury/requirement for one, may not be for the others. Always when one is taken off benefits; friday cake that we have had for 20y..., or newspaper that we have ALWAYS had... one may feels dissapointed. Still, when following e.g. JAL discussion, JAL has e.g. found clever ways to not compromice with quality and have made e.g. hollow cutlery to reduce the weight, clever...

Without knowing the whole story (and being travelling this year supprincingly (ad hoc much) I still feel unfear when staff is informed 2009 that "the hole company is going to be in backrupsy in case satff dont accept salary degrees, at the same time, even being "common practice" in many companies, some if the staff is given extra bonuses just for staying as employees.

The way Finnair has NOT COMMUNICATED the extra bonuses is against the finnish bond law (i dont know what is the official name with financial terms...),anyway the bonus was written in the financial statement but not communicated according the financial regulations to the public. Because of this Finnair should (and will be given) a warning of not communication officially these actions (says my sister communication manager for investors etc...)

...and as you may have read more... Vehviläinen is now accused of taking bribe... At the same time as one of the insurence companies was buying Vehviläisen's appartment (the he had not being able to sell for a long time...) the incurence company Ilmarinen was granted to build Finnairs new office building. The finnirs police took them self an action to investigate this matter...

(sorry if having miss-spellingsss... I just came from Sao Paolo and have not slept in 46 hours...)

Haha, good to know that someone appreciates it, as I manage to grow quite a rugged face on just a simple aisa trip!

Agree with the incentives being problematic from a communications perspective. It should have been openly declared. For shareholder, yes, but especially internally. And if the board couldn't justify the incentive program internally, then maybe they shouldn't have done it. Now, 2 year down the line, I can only imagine how it hurts to hears this as an employee.
One can easily translate it into FF-terms - it is like offering a FF program, you invest time and money into it to get some good stuff in the end, just to finally discover that someone else got all the upgrade vouchers... It doesn't build any loyalty...

Also saw the press statement about police investigations. These apartment tricks seems to be common these days too. Some try to be smart and get a cut for themselves. So when I said AY should try to be smart, I didn't mean it that way...
Well, maybe he's clean, but I guess you need to be a Nalle Wahlroos to pull it off without getting hammered by the press...

I already changed my next flights because of this, not that I need razors, toothbrushes or anything else in the kit. Actually I rarely touch this stuff, but as I mentioned before, I just don t like this attitude. Cutting costs, call it eco, rise the fare.

Wow.

I am not sure the logic goes like that. Eco is eco anyway and cutting costs seems mandatory. E.g. KLM-AF finished -800 MEUR last year.

Wow.

I am not sure the logic goes like that. Eco is eco anyway and cutting costs seems mandatory. E.g. KLM-AF finished -800 MEUR last year.

Do you really think they are losing 800MEUR because of anemity kits? I guess not.

My guess is that airlines losing money because they think

a. they have to fly everywhere, where the competition flys
b. they need to beat the low prices of their competitors
c. they offer fares in Y which are way below their costs

this only to name a few reasons. Since I have no inside knowledge about airline industry this are only guesses.

But cutting costs, while rising fares with the premium passengers is no good idea at all. Since they earn money with the premium pax.

I rather would go a way to earn money with sampling cosmetics on board of airplanes if I had a problem with my budget, the stopping that.

Do you really think they are losing 800MEUR because of anemity kits? I guess not.

My guess is that airlines losing money because they think



I can continue the guessing and add that I think they are losing money because many (legacy, so called "full service") airlines have the internal structure/labor unions etc. from the 1970/80's and they are trying to operete in the competetive landscape of the 2010's against carriers from emerging markets and/or with local/short haul competition from LCCs with total corporate history of 10-15 years..

Another thing is that at the same time many, if not most, companies treat their employees as cattle and care just accordingly about their well being = force them to fly the cheapest available options..

Not just the companies. The civil servants fly cattle class as well from and to Finland. Many EU institutions grant travel expenses based on cattle class fares only - and there is a limit to hotel compensations as well. Length of the working days including travel counts as 7h 45 minutes even if the actual time consumption was 16 to 18 h and the weekend travel rarely counts at all. Only the politicians with their good brotherhood enjoy better privileges...

Not just the companies. The civil servants fly cattle class as well from and to Finland. Many EU institutions grant travel expenses based on cattle class fares only - and there is a limit to hotel compensations as well. Length of the working days including travel counts as 7h 45 minutes even if the actual time consumption was 16 to 18 h and the weekend travel rarely counts at all.

Such is life. My employer reduces per diem, if the trip has "official" program with lunch and/or dinner, or if I entertain someone with my expense account. However, and this is explicitly stated, food aboard airplanes are not counted as meals, i.e. they do not reduce the per diem. I am glad the bean counters are aware of the realities of air travel. :p

Yes, this is a very common practise in any business. "Move along, there is nothing to see here." And if the key persons moved to another business only after the deadline that just proves the deal worked.


Considering the generous packages Finnair prepared for these "high flyers" I find it a bit odd that none of them remains in the airline or other travel business AFAIK. Isn't that where AY saw their core competence as base for these bonuses?

Isn't it correct that at least a few of the ex-AY board members are now working with or under the ex-Finnair CEO, Mr.Hienonen?

Considering the generous packages Finnair prepared for these "high flyers" I find it a bit odd that none of them remains in the airline or other travel business AFAIK. Isn't that where AY saw their core competence as base for these bonuses?

I don't think that was the base of their bonuses. In rough times it is always bad if your management team changes substantially. Then it is up to the board to decide if the costs of this turbulence warrant paying bonuses for just staying aboard.

At least the head of communications and IR left after the period ended, I guess those competencies are not industry-specific.

I think the point is not that the board decided on the bonuses, but the fact that it was kept secret and at the same time cabin crew and pilots were forced to cut on their salary.... aren't they important also for an airline....

I think the point is not that the board decided on the bonuses, but the fact that it was kept secret and at the same time cabin crew and pilots were forced to cut on their salary.... aren't they important also for an airline....

They are just details, that messes with the big picture :td: Imagine how easy would it be to manage an airline without all those people who actually make those metal tubes fly in the air. You could even get rid of those pesky people who hand over currency for the privilege to get aboard said metal tubes. Then you could concentrate on the real big management challanges, deciding on the layout of the FFP card (an oxymoron in the circumstances) or even the logo on the company letterhead!

Such is life. My employer reduces per diem, if the trip has "official" program with lunch and/or dinner, or if I entertain someone with my expense account.

I think this is in line with the Tax Office rules, which then are enforced more or less strictly depending on the employer

I think the point is not that the board decided on the bonuses, but the fact that it was kept secret and at the same time cabin crew and pilots were forced to cut on their salary.... aren't they important also for an airline....

I agree, this was handled badly, and will make things more difficult in the future.

I guess the sale of catering reveals that the idea is to outsource everything you can. This is not risk-free strategy, as has been evidenced by the baggage handlers.

I think this is in line with the Tax Office rules, which then are enforced more or less strictly depending on the employer

Correct, but I was amused to read that airline food is not "meal".

Then you could concentrate on the real big management challanges, deciding on the layout of the FFP card (an oxymoron in the circumstances) or even the logo on the company letterhead!Or on the livery of the airplanes... Seeing planes side by side I still think the old one is better.

So you have to ask the cabin crew for your thoothbrush / razor..? What can you really say anomore...

Recycled tooth brush ? :p:p:p

Correct, but I was amused to read that airline food is not "meal".

:D:D

Recycled tooth brush ? :p:p:p

At least yesterday/today (AY51, HEL-PEK) the razors and toothbrushes were in their usual place in the lav. Hand lotion too.

At least yesterday/today (AY51, HEL-PEK) the razors and toothbrushes were in their usual place in the lav. Hand lotion too.

I was told by AY that they were monitoring customer feedback in regards of these changes. As I haven't flown AY after the changes, I didn't provide them with any such feedback, but maybe quite some people did?

Or maybe the lack of these articles just was a mishap on some flights (so they are not back, they were never really gone)

Having flown HEL-ICN-HEL the last week, I must say the brown envelopes are a disgrace in an intercontinental "premium" cabin.

Why bother at all putting a pair of socks, an eyeshade and a pair of earplugs into an envelope?? The FA's hand out slippers anyway, include the shades and socks, have the plugs in the lav. A new development project for the new board, maybe ?

I was at Via Lounge this morning and a team of interviewers from the marketing group of Ipsos Mori interviewed me about AY. And the interviewer got an earful from me and hope they pass them up to senior management at AY. There was one other North American sounding guy that they interviewed and he also unloaded to the interviewer.

I don't expect management to implement all the ideas but hope that they try something. My last words to the interviewer was "I care about this airline." And I really do even though I am not a member of Finnair club.