European Rail Travel - Train fares expensive in Italy?

So from my research, it seems that using http://www.trenitalia.com/ is the best way to get the cheapest fares for Italian trains. However, I'm shocked at some of the prices that I've seen and I'm pretty sure it's more expensive than travelling within France. It seems that I'm looking at about 50 Euros on average for Genoa to Bologna or Venice to Rimini or Florence to Rome. Is it really that expensive to travel by train in Italy or this is considered cheap? Unfortunately I don't qualify for any youth pricing, but I'm not sure if they'll accept international university IDs for student fares. Does anyone here know?

please continue to follow this thread in our european rail travel forum :)

regards,

chrissxb
co-moderator
europe forum

this thread belongs in italy, not rail travel.

trains in italy are fast, on time and ca be cheap. the ES is expensive. es second class is fast and less expensive. service is better than acela in usa. the next step down is the the IC(i think) they are quite fast, and not expensive. then there is the milk run train. i forgot what they are called, but they can be really slow. for peace of mind, 3 rules.
for the ES, you must get a reservation
on the IC, punch your ticket
for peace of mind, get a bike lock(your luggage is way down at the end).

if you are trucking a ton of luggage, consider a porter, not too expensive, and some of the stations have a lot of stairs.

you can poke around here:

http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=ad1ce14114bc9110VgnVCM10000080 a3e90aRCRD

Trenitalia offers restricted Mini fares on many trains, with discounts of 10 to 70% on the full fare. Availability is limited, they're not available on Regionale trains (the old-fashioned, nonreserved trains), the amount of the discount is smaller the closer you get to the date of travel, and they're never available less than 2 days in advance. The main restriction--other than availability--is that Mini tickets are not changeable or refundable on or after the day of travel, though they can be can be changed once or refunded before that, with a penalty (50% for cancellation, but less for changing).

The site doesn't show you Mini fares on the first screen you get after searching for trains, which is probably why you're not seeing them. In my experience, you have to select a train and then click on Continue to see what, if any, Mini fare is available on that train. You can then click on Information to see the official word on restrictions.

I hope this helps (and I hope I've got it all correct!).

Back to the OP, yes it can be quite expensive. But if you take a series of regional trains rather than the fast intercity trains, it can be cheaper. Just go to the station and chat with the ticket office.

Trenitalia offers restricted Mini fares on many trains, with discounts of 10 to 70% on the full fare. Availability is limited, they're not available on Regionale trains (the old-fashioned, nonreserved trains), the amount of the discount is smaller the closer you get to the date of travel, and they're never available less than 2 days in advance. The main restriction--other than availability--is that Mini tickets are not changeable or refundable on or after the day of travel, though they can be can be changed once or refunded before that, with a penalty (50% for cancellation, but less for changing).

The site doesn't show you Mini fares on the first screen you get after searching for trains, which is probably why you're not seeing them. In my experience, you have to select a train and then click on Continue to see what, if any, Mini fare is available on that train. You can then click on Information to see the official word on restrictions.

I hope this helps (and I hope I've got it all correct!).

So I have to wait 2 days in advance to get the fare?

this thread belongs in italy, not rail travel.

trains in italy are fast, on time and ca be cheap. the ES is expensive. es second class is fast and less expensive. service is better than acela in usa. the next step down is the the IC(i think) they are quite fast, and not expensive. then there is the milk run train. i forgot what they are called, but they can be really slow. for peace of mind, 3 rules.
for the ES, you must get a reservation
on the IC, punch your ticket
for peace of mind, get a bike lock(your luggage is way down at the end).

if you are trucking a ton of luggage, consider a porter, not too expensive, and some of the stations have a lot of stairs.

you can poke around here:

http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=ad1ce14114bc9110VgnVCM10000080 a3e90aRCRD

What's considered to be cheap? I think the prices that I saw were anything but cheap.

I'm still a bit confused in how to get lower fares. I'm hoping I can get my fares to average about 30 Euros/trip.

So I have to wait 2 days in advance to get the fare?

Look at this page. http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=38a304ae4f9ec210VgnVCM1000003f 16f90aRCRD

Look at this page. http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=38a304ae4f9ec210VgnVCM1000003f 16f90aRCRD

So what should I do then? I'm just afraid that there won't be any mini fares available and I'll have to pay more for a fare than what I would pay if I book several weeks in advance.

I also read that I can save money by taking regional trains. How am I suppose to figure out which regional train to take if I were to say go from Venice to Bologna or Milan to Venice?

I also read that I can save money by taking regional trains. How am I suppose to figure out which regional train to take if I were to say go from Venice to Bologna or Milan to Venice?

Just walk up to the station and ask. However if money is really an issue for you you should probably be taking the bus instead of the train. Buses generally cost a tiny fraction of train fares in Italy. A bus from one end of a region to another might cost only a buck or two. Search around on google.it and use the translator if you can't understand Italian. Or again, just ask at the station.

There is an offer on currently for 9 EUR from Milano to Venezia:
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=b5c63b0dce085310VgnVCM10000089 16f90aRCRD

In general, trains in Italy are less expensive or the same prices as within Germany for example. Look for promotions- there are usually deals to be had.

Just walk up to the station and ask. However if money is really an issue for you you should probably be taking the bus instead of the train. Buses generally cost a tiny fraction of train fares in Italy. A bus from one end of a region to another might cost only a buck or two. Search around on google.it and use the translator if you can't understand Italian. Or again, just ask at the station.

I'm not in Italy yet so how am I suppose to do this? Wait until I get there? If so, then I'm sure I won't be getting any decent pricing for the fares.

I'm not in Italy yet so how am I suppose to do this? Wait until I get there? If so, then I'm sure I won't be getting any decent pricing for the fares.

Regionale trains only have walk-up fares, so the pricing you get is the same if you buy it at the station.

You can search on trenitalia.com for fares on these trains. For example, Venice-Bologna is €10.75 and Milan-Venice €17.95 (may need a change in Verona - which is well worth a stop in if you're there). These are very good fares, IMHO.

As noted above, though, you can beat them with advance purchase fares on the ES services, if you can find the availability and buy in advance.

Regionale trains only have walk-up fares, so the pricing you get is the same if you buy it at the station.

You can search on trenitalia.com for fares on these trains. For example, Venice-Bologna is €10.75 and Milan-Venice €17.95 (may need a change in Verona - which is well worth a stop in if you're there). These are very good fares, IMHO.

As noted above, though, you can beat them with advance purchase fares on the ES services, if you can find the availability and buy in advance.

Correct. I wouldn't take a regional service from Milano-Venezia however as it will take a long time and you may not get a seat.

For short hops like Venezia-Bologna- regional train is usually almost as fast (within 30 minutes) and is just fine as it is a short ride.

Last point- be sure to understand which train you want (study the schedule on the website)- as the operators may sell you the more expensive ES fares and also the automatic ticketing machines tend to default to the more expensive options (surprise-surprise). Example- I was heading from Vicenza-Desenzano (1 hour)- and I didn't pay attention to the automatic machine. I ended up paying 17.40 EUR instead of the 6.4 I could have payed for a train that arrived 15 minutes later. The reason? ES (Eurostar) vs. Regionale train- hardly relevant for a trip of ~100 km!

Regionale trains only have walk-up fares, so the pricing you get is the same if you buy it at the station.

You can search on trenitalia.com for fares on these trains. For example, Venice-Bologna is €10.75 and Milan-Venice €17.95 (may need a change in Verona - which is well worth a stop in if you're there). These are very good fares, IMHO.

As noted above, though, you can beat them with advance purchase fares on the ES services, if you can find the availability and buy in advance.

Stut, if it's a walk-up fare, should I buy my fare when I arrive in Milan or I can just buy it on the day that I want to take the train? I kind of like this idea as it'll give me some flexibility. I'm just afraid that there may be no seats or even room for me to stand!

If it's a walk-up fare, you can buy whenever you like, but there are no reservations on these trains, so it makes no difference when you buy (apart from the time take to operate the machines).

How busy they are is hugely variable, although you always have the advantage that you can take a later or indirect train if you turn up relatively late to a full service. I don't know the rules about breaking a journey in Italy, though, of that's something you wanted to do.

Final point is to bear in mind that some of these trains may be somewhat, er, rustic. Not unpleasant, but certainly nowhere as clean, modern or well maintained as the Eurostar Italia services.

However, I've used them in the past, and they can be extremely useful - particularly if you want to get to/from Linate in rush hour (the rather ugly Lambrate station avoids much of the congestion...)

If it's a walk-up fare, you can buy whenever you like, but there are no reservations on these trains, so it makes no difference when you buy (apart from the time take to operate the machines).

How busy they are is hugely variable, although you always have the advantage that you can take a later or indirect train if you turn up relatively late to a full service. I don't know the rules about breaking a journey in Italy, though, of that's something you wanted to do.

Final point is to bear in mind that some of these trains may be somewhat, er, rustic. Not unpleasant, but certainly nowhere as clean, modern or well maintained as the Eurostar Italia services.

However, I've used them in the past, and they can be extremely useful - particularly if you want to get to/from Linate in rush hour (the rather ugly Lambrate station avoids much of the congestion...)

How am I suppose to know if it's a walk-up fare or not? I plan on taking the IC trains because I think it's too late to get any of the Eurostar Italia trains for cheap. I'm on somewhat of a tight budget.

bump!

Basically, if there's no difference between the list of fares quoted (mini, base, flessibile) then it's walk-up.

However, it can be difficult to get the new website to quote Regionale fares on routes dominated by Eurostar Italia trains - I don't know a workaround for this, I'm afraid.

However, it can be difficult to get the new website to quote Regionale fares on routes dominated by Eurostar Italia trains - I don't know a workaround for this, I'm afraid.

An Italian friend kindly showed me that you can find the Regionale schedules, though not the fares, by using the Deutsche Bahn site, http://www.bahn.de (or http://www.bahn.com). It allows you to uncheck "Prefer Fast Connections" and check "Local Transport," and that will yield Regionale routes. Or you can customize further using "Further Search Options." (The checkbox for Regionali is "NV," I guess for NonVelocita.) On Trenitalia, I haven't been able to see even Regionale schedules on routes dominated by highspeeds.

A little OT: My friend told me she uses the DB site a lot because for some of her journeys that include changing from branch lines it shows routes that are actually faster, though longer in KMs, than Trenitalia does.

The checkbox for Regionali is "NV," I guess for NonVelocita.

Actually, "NV" is for "Nahverkehr", which is German for "local services".


A little OT: My friend told me she uses the DB site a lot because for some of her journeys that include changing from branch lines it shows routes that are actually faster, though longer in KMs, than Trenitalia does.
I use bahn.de (http://bahn.de) as a starting point for researching just about any train journey in Europe, as it's easy to use, has good advanced search features (like the one mentioned above) and includes pretty much all trains in Europe. (However, it can sometimes be slightly inaccurate, if for example a train operator has adjusted a service, or failed to provide timetable data around the time of the annual timetable change).

An Italian friend kindly showed me that you can find the Regionale schedules, though not the fares, by using the Deutsche Bahn site, http://www.bahn.de (or http://www.bahn.com). It allows you to uncheck "Prefer Fast Connections" and check "Local Transport," and that will yield Regionale routes. Or you can customize further using "Further Search Options." (The checkbox for Regionali is "NV," I guess for NonVelocita.) On Trenitalia, I haven't been able to see even Regionale schedules on routes dominated by highspeeds.

A little OT: My friend told me she uses the DB site a lot because for some of her journeys that include changing from branch lines it shows routes that are actually faster, though longer in KMs, than Trenitalia does.

I just tried that, but it won't let me book the fare online. Also, how can I restrict the results to show only intercity routes? For example, from Milan to Venice? It's already too late for me to buy fast train fares for cheap. I think IC is the next fastest option, but cheap enough for me to buy them. These are the good value fares that were mentioned earlier right? Bahn.de does show R instead of IC (what I was expecting). Does that mean they're regional fares?

For example:

Station/Stop Date Time Duration Chg. Products Price for all travellers*
Earlier Standard fare

Milano Centrale
Su, 08.04.12 dep 17:25 3:26 0 R Tariff abroad

Choose return trip
Venezia Santa Lucia Su, 08.04.12 arr 20:51
Milano Centrale
Su, 08.04.12 dep 20:25 3:25 0 R Tariff abroad

Guys?

R = Regional train - will only have walk up fares and most people won't reserve their seats - just get on and sit anywhere. A bit like catching the subway or a commuter train. It will be easier if the train starts in Milan as you'll get a seat if you arrive early enough; if you have a choice, avoid trains that have come from somewhere else e.g. Torino).

IC = Intercity train - may have discounted fares. As stut says, you need to check the prices and see if there is more than one fare quoted (mini, base, flexible). If there is more than one quoted, then the lower one is discounted. If not, then either all the discounted ones are sold out, or they only have walk-up fares on that route.

I just tried that, but it won't let me book the fare online.
Sorry, it seems Giggleswick and I weren't entirely clear. bahn.de (http://bahn.de) can be very useful for planning journeys, as it has a more powerful search tool than many operators' websites, and has (almost) complete data for much of Europe. However, it will only sell tickets for journeys that are in, or start or end in, Germany. To purchase tickets for journeys outside of Germany, you have to go to the relevant operator's website (ie: Trenitalia, in your case).

Also, how can I restrict the results to show only intercity routes? For example, from Milan to Venice? It's already too late for me to buy fast train fares for cheap. I think IC is the next fastest option, but cheap enough for me to buy them. These are the good value fares that were mentioned earlier right? Bahn.de does show R instead of IC (what I was expecting). Does that mean they're regional fares?

On bahn.de (http://bahn.de), you can select/de-select the different train types under 'Further Search Options' then 'Advanced Selection Of Means Of Transport'. Looking at Milan to Venice on 8th April, it seems there are the following options:
Eurostar Italia ('ICE' on bahn.de): every hour or so, journey time 2h35
EC ('IC/EC' on bahn.de): 1 train each day, at 12:05, journey time 2h35
R ('NV' on bahn.de): 1 train every 4hrs or so, journey time 3h30

For fare information, you'll have to look at Trenitalia - but the info from bahn.de should give you an idea of what train options are available.