TalkBoard Topics - Reconstructing FT to make it more of a social flagship?

The post http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-technology/1320304-flyertalk-lead-php-developer-opportunity.html#post18120749

Is apparently from a recruiter at Internet Brands (but not tagged as an official company account.) The line that stuck out:

The plan is to reconstruct the FlyerTalk site more towards and make it a social flagship.

Interesting.

The post http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-technology/1320304-flyertalk-lead-php-developer-opportunity.html#post18120749
Is apparently from a recruiter at Internet Brands (but not tagged as an official company account.) The line that stuck out:
Interesting. If that were the case how would that sit with all the squatters......It would also mean them ditching the entire V Bulletin software which is long past the due date for software perishability.

The plan is to reconstruct the FlyerTalk site more towards and make it a social flagship.

thanks a lot for posting

will certainly be interesting to see

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1297218-ft-tech-brand.html

FWIW, from a personal TalkBoard perspective, this isn't something that was ever brought up with TB to my knowledge.

IB, IMHO, tends to make decisions and provide direction without the input of the general members or their elected representatives - which, as owners of this discussion board, is well within their rights and well within their business strategy.

Keep in mind that when FlyerTalk was sold, it went from being a labor of love to a labor of business.

FWIW, from a personal TalkBoard perspective, this isn't something that was ever brought up with TB to my knowledge.

IB, IMHO, tends to make decisions and provide direction without the input of the general members or their elected representatives - which, as owners of this discussion board, is well within their rights and well within their business strategy.

Keep in mind that when FlyerTalk was sold, it went from being a labor of love to a labor of business.

Actually the Community Director posted a few months ago saying they'd like to make FT more social-media oriented & asked for input from FTers. She also mentioned other things she'd like to see happen. Like all TB topics ;), the thread quickly derailed. And it's something that for the most part didn't even gain input from TB members.

FWIW - while I'm not social media savvy, I've got no problem w/ IB wanting to do something that makes FT a better site for FTers. Why would that be a bad thing? And if it's just in the planning stages - ie, they're looking for an employee, why would TB be involved at that point?

I disagree that FT was simply a labor of love. While Randy did (does) love FT & was a benovelent dictator, it was always a business that fit into his overall business model. If it was truly a labor of love, he wouldn't have sold it for a profit ;)

Cheers.

Actually the Community Director posted a few months ago saying they'd like to make FT more social-media oriented & asked for input from FTers. She also mentioned other things she'd like to see happen. Like all TB topics ;), the thread quickly derailed.
that was why i created this thread >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1297218-ft-tech-brand.html

I think a lot of this is above TB's pay grade.

I was checking out MP and their iPad app the other day, and it's amazing how user-friendly that app is. FT would be well served by an app and a BB technology even close to that one. Of course, this is my opinion as a FTer, not an official anything from a member of TB.

IB own the shop that makes vb, so if there is an opportunity... sadly FT is so customized and screwed up in the backend it can't be migrated to vb's 4.x (like http://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php) and still lingers at 3.6. As you can see with small operations like VFT and MP, using a different version or platform is possible if you have no or little data to migrate. Imagine the howl if past data (or p:rolleyes:stc:cool:unt) is distorted in any way :D Google hits would vanish quickly and traffic reduce.

IB own the shop that makes vb, so if there is an opportunity... sadly FT is so customized and screwed up in the backend it can't be migrated to vb's 4.x (like http://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php) and still lingers at 3.6. As you can see with small operations like VFT and MP, using a different version or platform is possible if you have no or little data to migrate. Imagine the howl if past data (or p:rolleyes:stc:cool:unt) is distorted in any way :D Google hits would vanish quickly and traffic reduce.

It's all a sad reminder not to do too much customization to OTS software.

Apparently COdbaUA never learned this lesson, and neither did Ran Decisions when they ran FT. :(

How should we evolve to better fill that need?
How do we remain vibrant in this rapidly changing Internet world?
What new technologies or structures in the board should we be asking Internet Brands to add in order to keep members coming back to us?
How do we turn a newcomer who finds us thru Google search into a contributing member?
Is it important to retain a sense of community?
If so, how do we best do that with such a large community?

Is there anything we can do systemically to help foster that?
Is it important to keep FlyerTalk in the press?
Should TB develop a database of those willing to field press queries and their field of expertise?
What about bloggers?
Should we ask IB to expand their platform to host blogs?
If so, what content is sought?


has IB communicated that they are open to suggestions regarding investments in technology and/or brand expansion?

has IB discussed any of their investments in technology and/or brand expansion, like Top Flyer?

...

IB created iphone app right? jackal, any thoughts on IB's responsiveness etc?

It would be better if the overall "feel" of FlyerTalk was a bit less "hostile" to the newbies... For example, there are no avatars which 99% of other forums would allow- even if it's just one specific issue it does play a role in turning lurkers into members.

As for the technology issue, I think what we have works. Perhaps a slightly enhanced software/forum server package could be beneficial, but FT shouldn't "degrade" itself to the Facebook-style layout.

Well, there is a 'suggestions' section on FT that no one really ventures to ... I really doubt avatars are going to make people feel welcome. On any forum that I read, I make sure signatures are switched off, any avatars blocked etc.

the above SanDiego1K quote was directed at TB and posted in this forum

as stated here >
My thoughts for the 2012 Talkboard

Here is my challenge to members of the TalkBoard: I would like to see recommendations for how to take FlyerTalk to the next level.

These are a few examples of where I believe the TalkBoard can serve me and this community as we move forward.

I’ve tried to give a sense of the areas in which TalkBoard can help

If the TalkBoard can look forward as I’ve suggested

the above SanDiego1K quote was directed at TB and posted in this forum

as stated here >

That was a request to 9 TBers, the remaining 300+k members have the facility to suggest since day one in the suggestion forum and hardly anyone makes use of it :(

That was a request to 9 TBers, the remaining 300+k members have the facility to suggest since day one in the suggestion forum and hardly anyone makes use of it :(
However, for those of us who actually visit and post in Suggestions Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/suggestions-387/), things aren't getting any better either. Not to mention all the things that's been bugging us in Technical Issues Forum IB consistently fails to address properly. ;)

If the admin or IB are just not listening or taking good things into consideration, what's the point for (good) suggestions (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/suggestions/821563-wiki-posts-threads.html)? Often I feel (wise) words are falling on deaf ears. :(

new features for http://www.flyertalk.com/

The plan is to reconstruct the FlyerTalk site more towards and make it a social flagship...The goal of the mobile version of the site is to add real value to FlyerTalk, not just a mobile skin; for example facilitating airport networking by adding a feature that allows you to find other FlyerTalk users in the airports they visit.

IB own the shop that makes vb, so if there is an opportunity... sadly FT is so customized and screwed up in the backend it can't be migrated to vb's 4.x and still lingers at 3.6.

It's all a sad reminder not to do too much customization to OTS software ... and neither did Ran Decisions when they ran FT. :(

koko, while I respect you do have expertise in bulletin board software from when you helped start a competing website against FlyerTalk (moremiles.org) and oliver2002, I also realize that you may have ample knowledge of website operations given your close involvement and active support of another competing website against FlyerTalk (vielfliegertreff.de), I might suggest that you may be misinformed or even uninformed about the customization of FlyerTalk. There is actually very little custom conversion of the vBulletin base software with some additions added to external pages of content such as Best Practices for the Moderators and an outside db of member history related to an occasional infraction of one or more of the basic rules for all members, etc. There may be use of a few plugins for vB that the developers decided to not support for the 4.X release, but those plugins were not developed by those who helped build FlyerTalk. And actually the history of FlyerTalk is that is did in fact move forward with version releases of vB from 2.X to 3.X, etc. and all the .X releases in between with little or no problems that don't typically occur.

Rather than with your expertise with competing websites of FlyerTalk try and blame perhaps something that I do not believe exists with my knowledge, you might consider that perhaps IB has other strategies in mind and I of course would support those. A better user experience has always been a desire of anyone who has managed FlyerTalk. A truly customized solution might be better an example of fatwallet.com. The daily function of FlyerTalk as a forum bulletin board is largely indifferent than that of other websites using vB in the 3.X range, other than the graphics. Even another competitor of FlyerTalk, travelingbetter.com continues to use the same version of vB without moving forward to the 4.X version upgrade of vB and it appears that competing website does not have any custom enhancement.

Anyway, I have faith that IB will figure out which direction of technology they may want to take FlyerTalk and do a good job with it. As a note, there have been many websites not wanting to make the leap to 4.X of vB and it's almost always not because their current website is custom or even "screwed up."

I disagree that FT was simply a labor of love. While Randy did (does) love FT & was a benovelent dictator, it was always a business that fit into his overall business model. If it was truly a labor of love, he wouldn't have sold it for a profit ;)
Cheers.
While it may be that you have access to things that even I do not have access to, and thus your explicit knowledge of the difference in a labor of love and a profit, I don't think you can speak for me. I have always had an overall model — trying to help travelers increase their travel knowledge with very special focus on miles and points. Call it what you like, but each new toll i have introduced seems to do well at that and I'll continue to try and help those that appreciate what the gift of more travel knowledge can do for them. As for profit, I'll add my own thought on that since you seem to have yours. I'm was, am and will always be proud that individuals such as yourself seemed to have profited by the existence of FlyerTalk in how you have increased your travel knowledge and social network. My profit from FlyerTalk I define as the next person i meet in an airport with a bag tag going somewhere with a purpose and likely more knowledge than they had before FlyerTalk. There is nothing more valuable than that for me, though you may have other definitions for your own personal use. But please don't try and define my life in helping other travelers for me.

While it may be that you have access to things that even I do not have access to, and thus your explicit knowledge of the difference in a labor of love and a profit, I don't think you can speak for me. I have always had an overall model — trying to help travelers increase their travel knowledge with very special focus on miles and points. Call it what you like, but each new toll i have introduced seems to do well at that and I'll continue to try and help those that appreciate what the gift of more travel knowledge can do for them. As for profit, I'll add my own thought on that since you seem to have yours. I'm was, am and will always be proud that individuals such as yourself seemed to have profited by the existence of FlyerTalk in how you have increased your travel knowledge and social network. My profit from FlyerTalk I define as the next person i meet in an airport with a bag tag going somewhere with a purpose and likely more knowledge than they had before FlyerTalk. There is nothing more valuable than that for me, though you may have other definitions for your own personal use. But please don't try and define my life in helping other travelers for me.

I appreciate your being one of the industry spearheads in helping travelers increase their travel knowledge through your creation of FT (and other ventures, such as Inside Flyer magazine), & of course I've benefited from the knowledge I've gained from my fellow FTers. I'll always be grateful to you for that & you have a special place in my heart.

But I do think it's a bit disengious to say it was only a labor of love, since you did sell FT for a profit - and then created a competing website to FT a few years later ;)

Back on topic - while I might not be up on social media, if IB can implement things in that manner that makes FT a better site for its users, good for them. Whether the software allows it I'll leave to others.

Cheers.

Back on topic - while I might not be up on social media, if IB can implement things in that manner that makes FT a better site for its users, good for them. Whether the software allows it I'll leave to others.

Speaking of which... any updates on the Wikiposts Resolution (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1311675-discussion-re-resolution-asking-internet-brands-implement-wiki-posts-flyertalk.html)?

Speaking of which... any updates on the Wikiposts Resolution (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1311675-discussion-re-resolution-asking-internet-brands-implement-wiki-posts-flyertalk.html)?

jackal has been spearheading that. I think he's been traveling, but will send a PM.

Cheers.

koko, while I respect you do have expertise in bulletin board software from when you helped start a competing website against FlyerTalk (moremiles.org) and oliver2002, I also realize that you may have ample knowledge of website operations given your close involvement and active support of another competing website against FlyerTalk (vielfliegertreff.de), I might suggest that you may be misinformed or even uninformed about the customization of FlyerTalk. There is actually very little custom conversion of the vBulletin base software with some additions added to external pages of content such as Best Practices for the Moderators and an outside db of member history related to an occasional infraction of one or more of the basic rules for all members, etc. There may be use of a few plugins for vB that the developers decided to not support for the 4.X release, but those plugins were not developed by those who helped build FlyerTalk. And actually the history of FlyerTalk is that is did in fact move forward with version releases of vB from 2.X to 3.X, etc. and all the .X releases in between with little or no problems that don't typically occur.

Rather than with your expertise with competing websites of FlyerTalk try and blame perhaps something that I do not believe exists with my knowledge, you might consider that perhaps IB has other strategies in mind and I of course would support those. A better user experience has always been a desire of anyone who has managed FlyerTalk. A truly customized solution might be better an example of fatwallet.com. The daily function of FlyerTalk as a forum bulletin board is largely indifferent than that of other websites using vB in the 3.X range, other than the graphics. Even another competitor of FlyerTalk, travelingbetter.com continues to use the same version of vB without moving forward to the 4.X version upgrade of vB and it appears that competing website does not have any custom enhancement.

Anyway, I have faith that IB will figure out which direction of technology they may want to take FlyerTalk and do a good job with it. As a note, there have been many websites not wanting to make the leap to 4.X of vB and it's almost always not because their current website is custom or even "screwed up."

Thanks for sharing your unique perspective, Randy. I have a lot of respect for you too.

What would you suggest FT do to increase social functionality without losing the attractive simplicity that it currently enjoys, short of abandoning the ship and starting a new site on different BB platform?

[...] oliver2002, I also realize that you may have ample knowledge of website operations given your close involvement and active support of another competing website against FlyerTalk (vielfliegertreff.de), I might suggest that you may be misinformed or even uninformed about the customization of FlyerTalk. [...]

I draw my statement from public and private talks I had with people in the know at IB/FT as part of mod Dos and listening to a long winded explanation rcs85551 gave me when VFT went to 4.0 sometime ago. Happy to be proven wrong, but somehow can't believe that this is ignorant behaviour by IB because they have better things to do in other sites in the happy IB brand family.

you did sell FT for a profit - and then created a competing website to FT a few years later

it seems there are some misconceptions, but i dont think Randy has posted publicly about it.

it seems there are some misconceptions, but i dont think Randy has posted publicly about it.

The facts of the sale and the subsequent founding of a competing board on a different platform are well known and publicly available. There may be some misconceptions about the motivations, intentions and/or regrets. But certainly the facts are not in question.

As I recall, at the outset of the competing BB venture a great deal was made about the social-media-like look and feel of the BB software the competing site was built on.

So, as I say, I think Randy is uniquely positioned to give the TB advice on how to improve the 'social mediaization' of FT. But given his financial stake in a BB that is a direct competitor, and the fact that the relationship between Randy and IB ended in (settled out of court) lawsuits, I guess I can't hold out much hope for actually getting that valuable input...

If it is not,as Randy insists, over customization, then I wonder what the drawbacks of going to v4 are. Anyone have perspective?

I wonder what the drawbacks of going to v4 are. Anyone have perspective?

Straight from the horse's mouth:
As to the Vbulletin question, yes, IB owns that as well. I am sure it does streamline the process to get fixes made but it still remains a process. Upgrading a given site (especially one as huge as FT) to new versions of VB is also a process, and not one we undertake lightly; we'd rather deal with a relatively small issue for a while than risk losing the whole site over a rushed update.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

I do wish COdbaUA had taken this cautious approach.

Thanks for re-posting that. So I guess it comes down to the sheer size of FT. A very good problem to have! ^

jackal has been spearheading that. I think he's been traveling, but will send a PM.

Cheers.

Where's that PM? ;)

Not traveling so much as moving. I'm a bit closer to being settled down, but moving 4,000 miles across the continent does take a toll on time on FT. ;)

IB created iphone app right? jackal, any thoughts on IB's responsiveness etc?

The basic interface of the FlyerTalk iPhone app is not wholly horrible, but there are a few minor bugs that unfortunately make it impossible for me to use it with my browsing habits. Therefore, I haven't opened the app in several months and have little to say about it, other than that while I appreciate the folks at IB who bring us FT and I know they are doing the best they can with the resources they are given, stepping back a bit, I am a little underwhelmed at IB's responsiveness to address some of these (and other) issues.

As it relates to vB 4.0: I have talked with the IB tech guys about this and understand their hesitation. There is something to be said for stability over functionality. On the other hand, where there's a will, there's a way, and I believe it's time to modernize FT. I actually don't even think vB 4.0 goes far enough to that end, but it may be the best we can do with the resources we have. FlyerTalk will ultimately survive for a very long time regardless of the interface simply due to the massive amount of collective knowledge and wisdom (and community) we have here, but I hold out hope that we can also engage with the new social web in a relevant way. I am not the expert in how to do that, though, but like Justice Potter Stewart, I'll know it when I see it. ;)

...and I believe it's time to modernize FT.

Bugs aside, what do you see missing?

The basic interface of the FlyerTalk iPhone app is not wholly horrible, but there are a few minor bugs that unfortunately make it impossible for me to use it with my browsing habits. Therefore, I haven't opened the app in several months and have little to say about it, other than that while I appreciate the folks at IB who bring us FT and I know they are doing the best they can with the resources they are given, stepping back a bit, I am a little underwhelmed at IB's responsiveness to address some of these (and other) issues.

That basically sums up my thoughts about the FT app for Android. I've gone back to just using FT mobile.

.....The basic interface of the FlyerTalk iPhone app is not wholly horrible, but there are a few minor bugs that unfortunately make it impossible for me to use it with my browsing habits. Therefore, I haven't opened the app in several months and have little to say about it, other than that while I appreciate the folks at IB who bring us FT and I know they are doing the best they can with the resources they are given, stepping back a bit, I am a little underwhelmed at IB's responsiveness to address some of these (and other) issues......I agree and my main "issue" is that there is no "sync" between the browser version of FT and the mobile app and no option to view first unread post in a thread (or even have the app default to viewing the first unread post) and it is a royal pita to scroll the numbers to get to the page of a thread where you want to see the first unread post.

I agree and my main "issue" is that there is no "sync" between the browser version of FT and the mobile app and no option to view first unread post in a thread (or even have the app default to viewing the first unread post) and it is a royal pita to scroll the numbers to get to the page of a thread where you want to see the first unread post.

That is my #1 complaint about it, too.

Bugs aside, what do you see missing?

Busy in real life--let me get back to you on that in a bit. :)

I agree and my main "issue" is that there is no "sync" between the browser version of FT and the mobile app and no option to view first unread post in a thread (or even have the app default to viewing the first unread post) and it is a royal pita to scroll the numbers to get to the page of a thread where you want to see the first unread post.That is my #1 complaint about it, too....And if "the other place" can have an app that does just that, why cant F/t? :confused:

And then to be greedy, I'd love to see the option of being able to log in to F/t with the e-mail one has on file with f/t for Talkmail, thread updates and member messages as for me, using various iPhone apps which do allow signing in with an e-mail address, it's a simple copy once and paste many option which I find quite useful