Finnair Plus - Comfort Class on charters (A330 J-class)

This is a description of the Comfort Class (CC) service that AY offers on their A330-operated charter flights.

The A330 is a longhaul plane for scheduled flights. This season, AY operates charter flights to Las Palmas, Phuket and Krabi with A330 equipment. On these routes, AY uses only OH-LTS and OH-LTT, which have 32 lie-flat business class seats. These seats are sold as Comfort Class on the charters.

The lie-flat seats are better for sleeping but I find the older angled lie-flat seats better for lounging, reading etc. Moreover, on these two planes there is a big difference in personal space; 2A, 4A and 6A offer a huge amount of personal space for a solo traveller whereas eg 1D, 3D, 5D, 7D offer far less.

I flew AY to LPA last week. There was a €75 surcharge for CC on way (€150 return). This is how it worked:

HEL-LPA:

At HEL, there is nowadays OLCI for charters. Checked in online. There was no choice of seats, you had to take what the system offered you. I got 7L, which was okay. I don't know if I could have changed the seat by going to a check-in desk or calling the e-services desk.

At the airport, there were no dedicated CC desks. Priority luggage tags were put on luggage. I only had hand luggage on the outbound, so I didn’t go to the desk. The AA PLT card gives you access to the AY lounge at HEL even if flying on a charter flight, so I went to the lounge to wait for the flight.

The plane had flown in from BKK and was a little delayed. At gate 31X, the only one that they can use for both schengen and non-schengen flights, boarding was by seat numbers. CC was boarded first. No problem with the hand luggage even if it exceeded the 5 kg limit with quite a few kilos.

No pre-departure drinks on board. FAs placed passengers’ jackets and coats in a closet. The pillows and blankets were the lime green small ones used on charter flights (similar to Y blankets & pillows).

Meal service began about one hour after take-off with hot towels. From the drink trolley, you could choose soft drinks, beer and wine free of charge. Other drinks were charged. Paper and plastic cups. (On charter fligts in Y, they charge for all drinks, including water.) After the drinks, the meal service began.

Even if the flight departed 8:20 am, the meal was lunch, not breakfast. Very much appreciated. Everything was offered at the same time on a large tray, real china, Ultima Thule glasses and stainless steel cutlery. Quality resembled a good European J meal: cold-smoked salmon for starters, pork medallions in choron sauce with garlic potatoes for main course and a cake for dessert. Non-heated bread rolls were offered, too. Quite a good meal, actually, and far better than I had expected.

Stand arrival at LPA about 15 min behind scheduled arrival time. CC didn’t get to deplane first, they let passengers off the plane at LPA regardless of class. The priority tagged luggage arrived on the belt among the first bags.

LPA-HEL:

No possibility to check in online. Dedicated CC desk at the airport. We were a party of three on two different reservations. We made a point in arriving at check-in relatively late to avoid the bussed-in charter crowds, and at 1 hour 15 min before take-off we got the three last seats, all in different rows. Obviously, they hadn’t preselected seats for anyone. Not very nice. I got 1D which has to be one of the worst J seats on the plane. No priority tags on luggage.

Departure was from a stand so we were bussed to the aircraft. No preboarding/bussing for CC.

Inflight service similar to the outbound flight. The catering came from HEL; modified mini-size toast skagen for starters, chicken breast with risotto for main course (one of the tastiest airplane chickens I’ve ever had, didn’t resemble rubber at all!) and cake for dessert.

The only minus was the arrival at HEL. We arived about 10 min before scheduled arrival time and it seemed that no one was there to meet the plane. The arrival gate was 36 (31X was occupied by an Air Finland plane) and when the ground crew arrived, there was a lot of confusion about how to let us out of the plane. The purser had informed us before arrival that baggage claim would exceptionally be from hall 2B (non-schengen). This was then changed to 2A (schengen) and then back again to 2B. Finally, after a 25 min wait on board, they decided to let everyone deplane not by jetbridge but by stairs at the very back of the plane. This meant that CC deplaned last. We were then bussed to the non-schengen arrivals hall 2B, where the bags arrived after a relatively short wait. However, the plane landed 21:56 and we exited the terminal 22:50, which isn’t very efficient considering that HEL is a small airport.

All in all, I would say that CC is very good value for money. For only €75 on a six-hour flight you get a comfortable seat with a large amount of personal space and legroom compared to Y and especially to the cramped charter 757 that AY uses, plus a very nice meal and you get to bypass some of the lines. For this price, I would recommend CC strongly. It is a real pity that LPA will be a 757-destination again next winter.

Wow, €75 for turning six hours of pain into a real pleasure. On scheduled flights the same would be more like €750.

Is CC to Phuket and Krabi equally ridiculously inexpensive?

Without taking anything away from the charter pax but my personal opinion is that this is total and utter waste of quality equipment...at the same time paying J pax are flying for example with ex-AF A340..

Just my 2 cents.

Wow, €75 for turning six hours of pain into a real pleasure. On scheduled flights the same would be more like €750.

Is CC to Phuket and Krabi equally ridiculously inexpensive?

It's EUR 200 extra one way to/from the long haul destinations. This winter Hifly 332 has been operating their charters from HEL to Cancun, Colombo, Langkawi and from OUL to Phuket. CC is available also there with the same price but the product is much more charter-like.

I've flown once in CC to Las Palmas, no free CC seats available on LPA-HEL.
Their CC with fully flat seats on the newest A333 must be the best charter product ever seen in LPA... Flying back in Economy wasn't anything painful actually, good legroom, AVOD, ok meal.

Is the new Almost@Home lounge available for the CC passengers? I saw the Aurinkomatkat logo there.

But are AY leisure flights now available online?
Last time I checked you either had to call to book, or contact a finnish tour agent...

Without taking anything away from the charter pax but my personal opinion is that this is total and utter waste of quality equipment...at the same time paying J pax are flying for example with ex-AF A340..

Just my 2 cents.

Agreeing with that. On an asian route, they easily charge 750 extra for that seat, and they choose to use it on a route that pays them 75...
Wow.

On the bright side, very nice ride for the common Finn, going for vacation! Even getting pre-dinner drinks! The c-pax to HKG on a 3000 eur tix don't get that.

Anyway, thanks OP for a nice write-up! ^ Interesting to read, it is a part of AY operations I haven't experienced!

Excellent review. The price for Comfort Class next season 2012-2013 to e.g. Phuket will be 250 EUR per person per flight direction.

Even getting pre-dinner drinks! The c-pax to HKG on a 3000 eur tix don't get that.


Totally agree, that's really annoying and not up to par in long haul J..the late night dinner service is anyway so slow that it wouldn't change anything.

Also, pax who want to get to sleep immediately can always dine in the lounge and just go flat/horizontal on top of ascent (as they do anyway..)

Agreeing with that. On an asian route, they easily charge 750 extra for that seat, and they choose to use it on a route that pays them 75...
Wow.

...and that is why they choose to use the birds with the least C seats (and most Y seats and most seats overall) on the charter flights.

Also NOT flying to LPA would be waste of quality equipment, as there is not much else that they can do with the BKK night plane during the day that it is free... well I suppose they could do a scheduled SH run but probably not enough demand for a widebody there.

there is not much else that they can do with the BKK night plane during the day that it is free...

Most likely the reason why midnight departure to BKK will not be there in the future..afternoon/early evening departures only..

...and that is why they choose to use the birds with the least C seats (and most Y seats and most seats overall) on the charter flights.

Also NOT flying to LPA would be waste of quality equipment, as there is not much else that they can do with the BKK night plane during the day that it is free... well I suppose they could do a scheduled SH run but probably not enough demand for a widebody there.
Quality equipment.. hmmm, with this kind of use there is soon not much left of the quality.
On my last 3 trips with these birds I´ve experienced this:

- Armrest would not stay up.
- Seat wouldn´t go down all the way.
- Glitches in both head phone connection and power socket and reading light.
- Control lamp for seat being upright for take off didn´t work.
- When I pushed button to deploy table, horizontal panel to side consol came
loose completely, giving me full view over fellow passangers feet.

You can also see quite a lot of wear and tear, misfitting panels etc.
And this is on planes that are less than two years old. I can hardly think that would´ve been the case if not used for leisure flights.

Without taking anything away from the charter pax but my personal opinion is that this is total and utter waste of quality equipment...at the same time paying J pax are flying for example with ex-AF A340..

I agree with you, it is rather ridiculous that the flagship product is used on charters... OTOH, these planes have more seats than any other planes in the AY fleet, which is probably the reason. The current CC product has to be the best charter product in the whole world.

Whereas the cramped 757s are plain torture and just about bearable on a six-hour flight to LPA once a year, I would never consider taking a long-haul flight on board those birds. But a CC with, say, 1990s style J-seats on the 757 would work out quite nicely, especially considering the price. Forget the entertainment, forget the food but just put in some decent seats and charge €250 one way to Phuket.

...and that is why they choose to use the birds with the least C seats (and most Y seats and most seats overall) on the charter flights.

Also NOT flying to LPA would be waste of quality equipment, as there is not much else that they can do with the BKK night plane during the day that it is free... well I suppose they could do a scheduled SH run but probably not enough demand for a widebody there.

Yes, that is true and sensible use of the spare 330 capacity, taking into account that they already decided to use them on BKK route.
(And don't get me wrong, I love that they offer this service for leisure. If I was HEL based I'd go to LPA every weekend of the winter :D

But it is not like they couldn't sell these seats on the HKG and the NRT route. If the main business idea is to be the asian link, then it is strange to prioritise the leisure destinations (in wich I include BKK) with the newest birds. As the amateur I am, I am thinking they should put the 330's on japan and china routes, and lease capacity for leisure.

But it is not like they couldn't sell these seats on the HKG and the NRT route. If the main business idea is to be the asian link, then it is strange to prioritise the leisure destinations (in wich I include BKK) with the newest birds. As the amateur I am, I am thinking they should put the 330's on japan and china routes, and lease capacity for leisure.
The thing is LTS and LTT are not good for high J demand routes, why would they only sell 32 J seats if they can sell 42 or 45.

But a CC with, say, 1990s style J-seats on the 757 would work out quite nicely, especially considering the price. Forget the entertainment, forget the food but just put in some decent seats and charge €250 one way to Phuket.
Would that 250€ be enough to cover the costs of extra space (less pax can be taken)? The thing with A330s is totally different, the good seats are not there because of the charters but despite of them. If the could easily, quickly and cheaply change them into Y seats just for the charter and then change them back for the next scheduled service, I'm sure they would, but as they can't they just take what ever money they can get from the "comfort seats".

Also NOT flying to LPA would be waste of quality equipment, as there is not much else that they can do with the BKK night plane during the day that it is free... well I suppose they could do a scheduled SH run but probably not enough demand for a widebody there.

How about putting one of the widebodies on a pre-noon HEL - LHR rotation, with the feeder back landing just in time for the "Asian Wave"? Could be pretty popular with the City crowd (that also includes quite a few FT'ers)

Or then having a (Flybe?) Embraer doing HEL - BMA - LCY and back with about the same schedule?

How about putting one of the widebodies on a pre-noon HEL - LHR rotation, with the feeder back landing just in time for the "Asian Wave"? Could be pretty popular with the City crowd (that also includes quite a few FT'ers)

Or then having a (Flybe?) Embraer doing HEL - BMA - LCY and back with about the same schedule?

I think AY/BA strategy on HEL-LHR is frequency..dunno about BMA-LCY demand level but HEL-BMA seems to be on the lower side...I have taken that route many times during the last 2-3 years and mostlly it has been rather empty planes..now they moved it to Flybe and operated by ATR so at least I will avoid it at any costs..

The thing is LTS and LTT are not good for high J demand routes, why would they only sell 32 J seats if they can sell 42 or 45.
...

Ah, didn't think of that. So due to demand they can't replace the 340's on the routes that needs them most... Hehe, that's a twist, but I totally see the reason for it now.
They could use these "smaller" 330's if they had more slots, like a second NRT service. But I guess they could get the slot and went with codeshare agreement with JAL.

Without taking anything away from the charter pax but my personal opinion is that this is total and utter waste of quality equipment...at the same time paying J pax are flying for example with ex-AF A340..

Just my 2 cents.

You need to work in the AY management to understand this. Any normal person would use the ex AF bird for charter flights.

You need to work in the AY management to understand this. Any normal person would use the ex AF bird for charter flights.
I'm not so sure. LTS&LTT can take 297 pax. On charters usually all seats are taken. Switch to LQF and you have 269 seats, 28 seats, therefore 28 sold tickets lost.

Figure it takes 4 charter pax to generate the profit of one biz pax. (assume ticket 2500€ vs. 700€, 100€ for taxes and expenses).
Give up 28 Y pax, you need 7 biz pax to break even.

To be able to sell those 7 extra seats on LTS and LTU, you need to have no more than 25 to begin with. 7/25=28%. Keeping in mind that it is a bit too much to assume that you can hit the perfect spot on every flight you could argue that you need at least a third of an sales increase in biz.

If the true-flat seats would generate more than a third more J sales, wouldn't they have already fitted them to all planes?

This is by no means an accurate calculation, and there are for sure a lot of other factors that need to be taken into account but I would challenge the idea, that the planes would automatically generate more revenue on scheduled service and/or more business orientated destinations. I bet somebody at AY has actually done some more detailed math on these.

...
I bet somebody at AY has actually done some more detailed math on these.

Haha, that is flame-bait in this forum :D:D

I am sure they have calculated it. But there surely are some factors that are not easy to evaluate, like how much sales will be inpacted by inferior hard/soft product on the business heavy routes. I guess most of us here would like to see those factors influence the calculation in a very high degree, while it in reality probably doesn't.


There is also a slight difference in cargo capacity (AYs 340 lifting 19 tonnes, while the 330 lifts 18 tonnes) that might steer the 340s to HKG route.

I think AY/BA strategy on HEL-LHR is frequency..dunno about BMA-LCY demand level but HEL-BMA seems to be on the lower side...I have taken that route many times during the last 2-3 years and mostlly it has been rather empty planes..now they moved it to Flybe and operated by ATR so at least I will avoid it at any costs..

I'm thinking point-to-point traffic BMA - LCY and vice versa and more longhaul feeder related on BMA/LCY - HEL. Although HEL - LCY might also be possible nonstop while in the other direction we face the well known restrictions.

I'm not so sure. LTS&LTT can take 297 pax. On charters usually all seats are taken. Switch to LQF and you have 269 seats, 28 seats, therefore 28 sold tickets lost.

Figure it takes 4 charter pax to generate the profit of one biz pax. (assume ticket 2500€ vs. 700€, 100€ for taxes and expenses).
Give up 28 Y pax, you need 7 biz pax to break even.


This kind of thinking/acting put me to TG and LX again. I started flying AY in 2009 an generated more then a million points so did my wife. Our first flights where wonderful, since we ended up in the ex-AF plane once, we always check first which plane is used on our dates, and if its this one we going either on LX or TG First.

I just learned that AY leased a A330-200 from HiFly the chance will be much higher that I won´t spend my money with AY. Just booked TG First for less then 2900€ to BKK compared to 25++€ on AY.

I was talking people into AY for about 2 years, now I tell them they need to be carefully.

If you run an airline just on calculator based figures, you are compete with FR, U2 or D7. And those guys are better with the figures.

Just found out that the Hi Fly A330 can carry up to 330 pax in an all Y configuration, they should use this one on the charter service.

This kind of thinking/acting put me to TG and LX again. If started flying AY in 2009 an generated more then a million points so did my wife. Our first flights where wonderful, since we ended up in the ex-AF plane once, we always check first which plane is used on our dates, and if its this one we going either on LX or TG First.

I just learned that AY leased a A330-200 from HiFly the chance will be much higher that I won´t spend my money with AY. Just booked TG First for less then 2900€ to BKK compared to 25++€ on AY.

I was talking people into AY for about 2 years, know I tell them they need to be carefully.

If you run an airline just on calculator based figures, you are compete with FR, U2 or D7. And those guys are better with the figures.

Please, make sure you let AY know this!! Like mosburger wisely suggested in the other thread today we need to shout more towards AY - their management do not read FT..that's clear..

Please, make sure you let AY know this!! Like mosburger wisely suggested in the other thread today we need to shout more towards AY - their management do not read FT..that's clear..

I contacted AY Platinum team on the website a few times when I had minor complains (the disappeared Salmiaki, IVD of one of my employees, ex-AF plane, rerouting and delays, not credited flights i.e.) I never got any feedback from them nor compensation (if I write any kind of minor complain to LH as a SEN they normally excuse and often they give you a few extra miles) AY only fixed some of the complains, but never came back to me. Only once when my staff member was downgraded they told me that they did everything regarding to the books - she got a prepaid VISA card (I m not remembering how much was on it, but it was less then the fare difference, not talking about compensation).

So I don t see the point to talk to AY since they don t even care about their Platinum members.

Yes they care, when you send an feedback via Finnair feedback form, you are send an SMS sessage saying we have received your feedback ;-)

..still nothing after that...

I looks good once you have done the writing but then no responce.

I just learned that AY leased a A330-200 from HiFly the chance will be much higher that I won´t spend my money with AY.

Don't worry, the HiFly plane is used solely on charter flights.

If you run an airline just on calculator based figures, you are compete with FR, U2 or D7. And those guys are better with the figures.

I couldn't have said this better myself...

The key thing is to complain in public, not in private as that will be eaten by the AY organisation before it reaches anyone who cares..facebook, blogs etc..FT works for many airlines but not with AY..their presence here is just nothing..some clueless person stating the obvious twice a year..

I just learned that AY leased a A330-200 from HiFly the chance will be much higher that I won´t spend my money with AY. Just booked TG First for less then 2900€ to BKK compared to 25++€ on AY.

HiFly is not flying anything but charters. Also BKK is a leisure heavy destination, so if that's where you travel you are actually benefiting of this, or would be if that would be enough to convince you to go with AY: Every A330 flight to BKK in recent history has been with the new J. That is also the reason why LPA gets the same plane, as it is usually literally the same plane.

The A340 flights have been varying, apparently you would fix ex-AF only to this half-a-charter destination?

If you run an airline just on calculator based figures, you are compete with FR, U2 or D7. And those guys are better with the figures.

Every company is ran with a calculator, you just can not ignore the bottom line. That does not mean LCC revenue model. How does Finnair long haul business class compete with Ryanair?

Just found out that the Hi Fly A330 can carry up to 330 pax in an all Y configuration, they should use this one on the charter service.
They do.

Also Finnair has definately not fitted the new J with charters on mind, heck they wouldn't put even the old J for that. The fact that they are flying charters on scheduled long haul equipment is simply temporarily utilizing excess capacity. Try the luxurious AY 757 if you really think that the company cares more about the charter pax than J class pax.

Edit: BTW, I do find it funny that in this and the "You can go even lower" thread people are simultaneously saying that AY should show that they care about their J pax by putting the newest planes on J heavy routes AND complaining about old equipment on BKK and JFK routes... Why do I feel this is more about "they should put the new planes on MY routes".

So I don t see the point to talk to AY since they don t even care about their Platinum members.

Hmm, the only time I've complained to AY about anything, I wrote a polite message and sent it through the web page. Less than 24 hours later I received an apology plus they sent me €40 in vouchers. (The phone rep had messed up my reservation, and I had to call them while on the road to fix things up.)

Every company is ran with a calculator, you just can not ignore the bottom line.

This is the reason why I m saying I will make decisions on every single flight I will do in the future - it won t be AY and that´s it. If the math on other airlines is better I m off with them. Since airline business our days is not interested in loyal customers I wont stays loyal.

It looks like AY did the decision that they can t ignore the bottom line, they better ignore their customers - Hallo AY Platinum Team.

And when I m doing the math, it s not only $$$ counting, it s also time, comfort and how do this "investment count in the future. Where on other airlines I have a good chance to fly F, I can t even use my points and upgrades on AY since they never have space and won t gurantee me that seat.

Hmm, the only time I've complained to AY about anything, I wrote a polite message and sent it through the web page. Less than 24 hours later I received an apology plus they sent me €40 in vouchers. (The phone rep had messed up my reservation, and I had to call them while on the road to fix things up.)

I have the impression that they are closer to their customers from Finland, as I have the impression that LH is closer to their customers from Germany, that seems kind of normal.

Less and less flat beds will be seen on scheduled flights, as AY is using the 3 A330's with 32 J-seats (flatbeds) increasingly on charter flights next winter.
Haven't heard any news on new aircraft for ages, nor have there been any news on enhancing the J-class. AY may have lost the game in trying to attract J-class passengers.

And they continue using B757's (charter configuration) on their up to 5 weekly Toronto scheduled flight this summer and on their Dubai flights. I feel sorry for the people who book these flights thinking of getting a decent scheduled flight and ending up on a charter plane.

Also now that they are getting rid of 4 A320's it is interesting to see if and how delays will increase and how the connections from/to Europe will work out.